Samsung shipped 2x as many phones as Apple, earned half as much

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 66
    atomanatoman Posts: 3member

    Spamsung, anyone? Spam spam spam spam... (Gee, miss the Monty Python)

  • Reply 42 of 66
    atomanatoman Posts: 3member

    Spamsung, anyone?

  • Reply 43 of 66
    shahhet2shahhet2 Posts: 149member
    rogifan wrote: »
    yep just saw a Verizon commercial last weekend for the GS5 where they were offering BYGO. And another carrier (might have been AT&T) offering a free Galaxy tab with the purchase of a GS5.
    You do understand that even though they are bogo, Samsung is only reducing price by $100 with benefit of selling two phones instead of one. Its nice marketing gimmick.
    For eg. If S5 price is $650 and carrier sells for $200 with subsidy, then that means Samsung is getting $650 for first phone and $450 for second free phone. Or $100 less per phone on average for total price of $1100 instead of $1300.
    Its like saying that they sell phone for the price of iPhone 5C.
    But on other hand they lock two customers to their copycat phone instead of one.
  • Reply 44 of 66
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,073member

    Is it any surprise that they earned less when they shipped more items but didn't sell them?

  • Reply 45 of 66
    This is why we can't have nice things.
  • Reply 46 of 66
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    bayted wrote: »
    From a long term view, this is not good for Apple.
    When you lose market share, eventually you lose. 

    That's why Apple got out of the PC biz and why HP and Dell are thriving. Oh wait.

    Define the smart phone market. Define the cell phone market. Apple share of the cell phone market is increasing.
  • Reply 47 of 66
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,272member
    Samsung's phone strategy follows the inverse square law.
  • Reply 48 of 66
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wigby View Post

     

    This headline sums up the Samsung - Apple relationship completely. Of course pure profits are more important than pure marketshare but there is a tipping point. At some point (under 5% for PCs) developers and industry allegiance begin to pull away completely from your ecosystem as Apple found in the mid-nineties. I never want to be an iOS user looking over the fence and seeing so many more apps and accessories available for Android just as they looked at iOS a few years ago.

     

    iOS has a long way to go before developers begin to look elsewhere but there are some very early signs of developers now embracing Android and iOS together.


     

    I disagree fully with you.  Where did you come up with this 5% = irrelevance and developer abandonment?  Can I have some more fries with your FUD.

     

    This is exactly what I see as leading to a complete and utter failure and implosion of Capitalism.  People like you get so caught up in the high numbers and the low numbers.

     

    Follow me here.  North American market.  Apple's Mac computers in the 90's had a total user base of about 25 million.  At the same time they were reporting that 400 million Windows PCs were out there somewhere.  I am not trying to debate what these were used for.  Just simple numbers.

     

    25 million Macs.  Is that not enough for you to develop a piece of software or even hardware?  Thing is the more people that DON'T write or port their applications or hardware means one less competitor to steal away sales and even less cost to advertise your stuff.

     

    In fact, in those "dark times of Apple" Microsoft was reported to be making as much, if not more, on its Office products for Mac than the 100's of millions more PCs out there.

     

    In 2012 some reports were that Apple had 66 million Macs out there.  Newer reports indicate Apple at between 8-10% or more of the PC market. If Apple had 100 million users that means 1 billion Windows PCs out there.  Numbers not being accurate based on whose numbers you believe in.

     

    Either way - 100 million customers is not worth developing for?  So please enlighten us on the basics of business and tell us when we should abandon a market segment.

     

    Now add to that the iOS devices.  What are we at since 2007 - 200 million devices?  250?  I totally see where you are coming from.  If Apple dwindles to 5% of 1,000,000,000,000 devices they should just what, shut down the company and give the money back to their shareholders?  (Sorry, I just could not resist getting that in there - sorry Mr. Dell.)

     

    I mean who the hell in their right mind would even develop for 50 billion devices when they could go after the 1 trillion market?  That is what Samsung seems to be after.  pushing the total numbers up so they are the largest holder of landfill electronics by market share.  To get there they need to produce 20 million more than last time, even if people don't want or buy them.  But hey, our market share is up right?

     

    Seriously, I don't feel that many of the people that post on market share numbers or percentages fully understand basic numbers.  1 million is a really big fracking number let alone 300 million or whatever Apple's combined devices numbers would be.

     

    I know you said you don't think it will happen soon, but that it will eventually.  Remember though, Apple was under 2% market share and still had plenty of developers, applications, 3rd party hardware manufacturers, and support.  Enough that they came back and built an Empire on their own ashes to be honest.

  • Reply 49 of 66
    nkalunkalu Posts: 315member

    Wow!

    That speaks volume.

  • Reply 50 of 66
    heliahelia Posts: 170member
    And Samsung is the only Android mobile maker who makes a solid profit! I hate to even think what the others are doing!!!
  • Reply 51 of 66
    wigbywigby Posts: 692member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

     

     

    Speaking in pure #s, Android is obviously a majority, yet developers still overhwelmingly favor iOS in terms of app development. There's nothing that indicates this will change anytime soon, since the percentage of Android users who own capable devices, and actually are willing to purchase apps is much, much smaller than the numbers suggest. Meanwhile, every single iPhone owner is a lucrative consumer. 


     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lookforandrew View Post

     

     

    I disagree fully with you.  Where did you come up with this 5% = irrelevance and developer abandonment?  Can I have some more fries with your FUD.

     

    This is exactly what I see as leading to a complete and utter failure and implosion of Capitalism.  People like you get so caught up in the high numbers and the low numbers.

     

    Follow me here.  North American market.  Apple's Mac computers in the 90's had a total user base of about 25 million.  At the same time they were reporting that 400 million Windows PCs were out there somewhere.  I am not trying to debate what these were used for.  Just simple numbers.

     

    25 million Macs.  Is that not enough for you to develop a piece of software or even hardware?  Thing is the more people that DON'T write or port their applications or hardware means one less competitor to steal away sales and even less cost to advertise your stuff.

     

    In fact, in those "dark times of Apple" Microsoft was reported to be making as much, if not more, on its Office products for Mac than the 100's of millions more PCs out there.

     

    In 2012 some reports were that Apple had 66 million Macs out there.  Newer reports indicate Apple at between 8-10% or more of the PC market. If Apple had 100 million users that means 1 billion Windows PCs out there.  Numbers not being accurate based on whose numbers you believe in.

     

    Either way - 100 million customers is not worth developing for?  So please enlighten us on the basics of business and tell us when we should abandon a market segment.

     

    Now add to that the iOS devices.  What are we at since 2007 - 200 million devices?  250?  I totally see where you are coming from.  If Apple dwindles to 5% of 1,000,000,000,000 devices they should just what, shut down the company and give the money back to their shareholders?  (Sorry, I just could not resist getting that in there - sorry Mr. Dell.)

     

    I mean who the hell in their right mind would even develop for 50 billion devices when they could go after the 1 trillion market?  That is what Samsung seems to be after.  pushing the total numbers up so they are the largest holder of landfill electronics by market share.  To get there they need to produce 20 million more than last time, even if people don't want or buy them.  But hey, our market share is up right?

     

    Seriously, I don't feel that many of the people that post on market share numbers or percentages fully understand basic numbers.  1 million is a really big fracking number let alone 300 million or whatever Apple's combined devices numbers would be.

     

    I know you said you don't think it will happen soon, but that it will eventually.  Remember though, Apple was under 2% market share and still had plenty of developers, applications, 3rd party hardware manufacturers, and support.  Enough that they came back and built an Empire on their own ashes to be honest.


    Where's all those great apps and developers knocking down the door to get to MS and Blackberry? When your marketshare drops too low, it's not worth the effort for most. That doesn't mean a few don't still develop but they have to pay the bills so they support multiple ecosystems.

     

    You must be new to Apple. I've been an Apple customer since the late 70's so I been through all their ups and downs. Their ups were defined by innovation and a strong developer community. Their downs were defined by commodity products and weak demand (i.e., marketshare).

     

    Not sure why you're so fixated on the 5%. I pulled it out of my ass but that doesn't mean my point is any less valid. For nearly a decade in the late 80's to late 90's, I watched as all the developers went to PC first with games, content creation apps, utilities and hardware accessories. It was no coincidence that Apple's marketshare was at its lowest point. When you control hardware and software like Apple, it's difficult enough to get developers onboard. When you still hold the keys like they do but have no marketshare, you have no demand and no customers either. I'm not talking about right now. They will be fine for a long time but "long time" in the tech market can sometimes go by in a few years. Again, look at MS and Blackberry.

     

    Even at .1% marketshare, iOS would have some great developers but you know that they wouldn't get any exclusives, nothing would come to iOS first and the catalog would ultimately disintegrate the same way their users did. At a certain point, there is just no incentive for developers and consumers to stick with product loyalty. I used Apple when they had a 60% marketshare in PCs and continued using them even when you couldn't find a retail store or fellow geek that still sold or used Apple. I stayed with them but that doesn't mean I enjoyed those lean years.

  • Reply 52 of 66
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,073member

    Like gravity, Samsung's profits will soon be inversely proportional to the square of the items sold.

  • Reply 53 of 66
    taniwhataniwha Posts: 347member

    would you care to elaborate on why you think more categories would make sense for any useful purpose ?

     

    Do you have some ideas on what particular differentiation characteristics might be useful to define new categories of devices.

     

    Just asking :-)

  • Reply 54 of 66
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lookforandrew View Post

     

     

    I disagree fully with you.  Where did you come up with this 5% = irrelevance and developer abandonment?  Can I have some more fries with your FUD.

     

    This is exactly what I see as leading to a complete and utter failure and implosion of Capitalism.  People like you get so caught up in the high numbers and the low numbers.

     

    Follow me here.  North American market.  Apple's Mac computers in the 90's had a total user base of about 25 million.  At the same time they were reporting that 400 million Windows PCs were out there somewhere.  I am not trying to debate what these were used for.  Just simple numbers.

     

    25 million Macs.  Is that not enough for you to develop a piece of software or even hardware?  Thing is the more people that DON'T write or port their applications or hardware means one less competitor to steal away sales and even less cost to advertise your stuff.

     

    In fact, in those "dark times of Apple" Microsoft was reported to be making as much, if not more, on its Office products for Mac than the 100's of millions more PCs out there.

     

    In 2012 some reports were that Apple had 66 million Macs out there.  Newer reports indicate Apple at between 8-10% or more of the PC market. If Apple had 100 million users that means 1 billion Windows PCs out there.  Numbers not being accurate based on whose numbers you believe in.

     

    Either way - 100 million customers is not worth developing for?  So please enlighten us on the basics of business and tell us when we should abandon a market segment.

     

    Now add to that the iOS devices.  What are we at since 2007 - 200 million devices?  250?  I totally see where you are coming from.  If Apple dwindles to 5% of 1,000,000,000,000 devices they should just what, shut down the company and give the money back to their shareholders?  (Sorry, I just could not resist getting that in there - sorry Mr. Dell.)

     

    I mean who the hell in their right mind would even develop for 50 billion devices when they could go after the 1 trillion market?  That is what Samsung seems to be after.  pushing the total numbers up so they are the largest holder of landfill electronics by market share.  To get there they need to produce 20 million more than last time, even if people don't want or buy them.  But hey, our market share is up right?

     

    Seriously, I don't feel that many of the people that post on market share numbers or percentages fully understand basic numbers.  1 million is a really big fracking number let alone 300 million or whatever Apple's combined devices numbers would be.

     

     


     

    Actually major development studios missed the Mac when it was 2%. I am a Mac developer, effectively unemployable for a few years ( as that, I moved onto Windows and other stuff), now back in Objective C full time, also as a iOS architect. Things are good now.

    Quote:

     

    I know you said you don't think it will happen soon, but that it will eventually.  Remember though, Apple was under 2% market share and still had plenty of developers, applications, 3rd party hardware manufacturers, and support.  Enough that they came back and built an Empire on their own ashes to be honest.



     

    Sounds rational until you think about developing for Windows phone, which is 2% of the American market. Would you?

    The decision to develop something on a permanent basis involves hiring permanent development staff to maintain older versions, and keep up to date with the latest across all platforms. Thats an ongoing cost, and to begin with all you know is that the Mac was then - and Windows mobile is now -  2% of the market. Other options are to outsource - which games devs did long after the windows release and only if that were successful. Getting 1% of a market , which is realistically all you can hope to achieve if you are not MicroSoft or Adobe ( that would be 10 million sales for a 1 billion seat market) is not so appealing for a 2% market. It would be 200,000 which might not be enough to pay your devs. In fact given their rarity they may be more expensive. And you won’t know ahead of time what you are going to sell.

     

    iOS is ok as long as it is big in the US and Japan, two markets where people really do pay for stuff. Apple dominates the market which buys stuff, which is probably where it is going to stay. 

  • Reply 55 of 66
    wigby wrote: »
    I never want to be an iOS user looking over the fence and seeing so many more apps and accessories available for Android just as they looked at iOS a few years ago.

    I believe the massage from Apple to all of those Android people has always been: Come on in, water's fine.

    The fact is, if you looked at the iOS ecosystem with envy, then it means you weren't willing to join for ideological reasons, and there's nothing Apple can do about that, short of adopting Windows and Android which is what your darling Samsung has done.
  • Reply 56 of 66
    wigbywigby Posts: 692member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post





    I believe the massage from Apple to all of those Android people has always been: Come on in, water's fine.



    The fact is, if you looked at the iOS ecosystem with envy, then it means you weren't willing to join for ideological reasons, and there's nothing Apple can do about that, short of adopting Windows and Android which is what your darling Samsung has done.

    I'm an Apple fan but the responses are so knee-jerk pro-Apple that you cannot discern the difference between a cautionary warning (based upon Apple history) and a Fandroid comment. I don't look at the iOS ecosystem with envy because it's my ecosystem. Darling Samsung? Huh?

  • Reply 57 of 66
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    wigby wrote: »
    I'm an Apple fan but the responses are so knee-jerk pro-Apple that you cannot discern the difference between a cautionary warning (based upon Apple history) and a Fandroid comment. I don't look at the iOS ecosystem with envy because it's my ecosystem. Darling Samsung? Huh?

    Considering iOS apps can work on iPhones, iPads, and iPod touches, smart phone market share is not indicative of the entire ecosystem.

    In addition Apple has never had a majority of the "smart phone" market and it's doing just fine. It's share of the cell phone market is growing.
  • Reply 58 of 66
    pazuzupazuzu Posts: 1,728member

    Either Samsung undercharges or Apple overcharges- What is it?

  • Reply 59 of 66
    Starting to think that these samsung articles are bs. Analyst have failed miserably trying to guess the number of iPhones sold and we are suppose to trust these numbers? They are supposedly selling all these phones but the web traffic and profit tells a different story. Didn't they just release the iphone killer a few weeks ago?
  • Reply 60 of 66
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post





    I believe the massage from Apple to all of those Android people has always been: Come on in, water's fine.



    The fact is, if you looked at the iOS ecosystem with envy, then it means you weren't willing to join for ideological reasons, and there's nothing Apple can do about that, short of adopting Windows and Android which is what your darling Samsung has done.

    The only thing that could move me over to iOS is making iOS a bit more like Android....or the death of Android....or Android becoming something I don't like.

     

    The first one won't happen...second one is unlikely but possible, but unlikely...third is possible.

     

    Apple won me over with my laptop...my next desktop will probably most likely be an iMac...and who knows...maybe then my stance will change.

     

    But as of now iOS just...isn't for me....but it is no longer stale so that's cool.

     

    ninja edit: misread...I thought you said that Android fans envy the iOS ecosystem...but you said if....

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