Future MacBook keyboards may come loaded with in-key displays, capacitive touch sensors

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 37
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    malax wrote: »
    Does no one read the articles before posting?  It specifically talks about the existing Art Lebedev keyboards.

    I often don't read the articles.
  • Reply 22 of 37
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

     
    On the higher end Apple tends to come in lower than the competition.


     

    I guess it depends on what you're shopping for. In my case it has always been the other way around. Of course, "in my case" means only four or five comparisons, and each time for the same kind of product.

     

    The difference in price is never huge, just a couple hundred bucks, but always with Apple taking the highest spot. Each purchase has involved at least one or two BTO options for things that can't be purchased third-party, like GPU and CPU upgrades, so that undoubtedly tipped the scales some since Apple's upgrade prices seem to be even higher than the already spendy rates charged by other suppliers.

     

    My comparisons have all been on notebooks. Maybe it's different with desktops. I didn't even bother looking at alternatives for the Mac Pro we just bought so I have no idea how it would have compared.

  • Reply 23 of 37
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

     

     

    I guess it depends on what you're shopping for. In my case it has always been the other way around. Of course, "in my case" means only four or five comparisons, and each time for the same kind of product.

     

    The difference in price is never huge, just a couple hundred bucks, but always with Apple taking the highest spot. Each purchase has involved at least one or two BTO options for things that can't be purchased third-party, like GPU and CPU upgrades, so that undoubtedly tipped the scales some since Apple's upgrade prices seem to be even higher than the already spendy rates charged by other suppliers.

     

    My comparisons have all been on notebooks. Maybe it's different with desktops. I didn't even bother looking at alternatives for the Mac Pro we just bought so I have no idea how it would have compared.


     

    So how many of these notebooks have thunderbolt?

     

    Just wondering.

  • Reply 24 of 37
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,488member
    We shall see.
  • Reply 25 of 37
    btonedembtonedem Posts: 15member

    Great! More parts to fail.

  • Reply 26 of 37
    inteliusqinteliusq Posts: 111member
    WANT!
  • Reply 27 of 37
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

    How did you come up with your figure?


    Mostly a quick calculation to be sure, but...

    2 GPUs: $1200 (price between the W5000 that is lower performance than the D300, and the W7000 that is similar performance but double the RAM)

    CPU: $400

    12 GB ECC: $200

    256 GB PCIe SSD: $300

    Mobo: $500 (about a $200 premium to account for all the Thunderbolt)

    PSU: $200

    So with just major systems accounted for it's nearing $3000 already. Throw in silent cooling, good system integration and all the rest, and OK, they are selling a $3500 machine for $3000. And as you move higher I do think the separation is greater. NewEgg sells the W9000 for $3400 EACH, so $6800-$1200 for the "W6000" and you have a premium of $5600, while Apple allows that upgrade for just $1000. $4600 savings, advantage Apple. ;)

    Sure, you can get similar performance on benchmarks for a lot cheaper by going with an i7, GeForce cards, SATA SSD, non ECC RAM, fewer Thunderbolt ports, etc. But then it isn't apples to apples. That config would be a machine that is great for a lot, even the vast majority, of users, but not for the target audience of the Mac Pro. Those GeForce cards alone are going to be MUCH less capable when it comes to OpenCL, which is where the real power in the nMP comes from. So I still submit, if you need and can use the real horsepower of the nMP, then nothing even comes close for the price you pay. If you buy it for gaming, you are ripping yourself off. ;-) For pro audio, I guess you are maybe future proofing yourself, as I would assume that soon enough lots of pro audio apps will take advantage of the GPUs for openCL, but for now I understand they don't, so the nMP is a bit wasted on that market. 

  • Reply 28 of 37
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

     
    So how many of these notebooks have thunderbolt?

     

    Just wondering.


     



     



    None. The last "high-end" notebook purchase I made was pre-TB. I'm clinging desperately to my 17" display, constantly coming up with excuses to put off upgrading a little longer.

     


    Why do you ask?



  • Reply 29 of 37
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

     

     


     

    If you are going to make comparisons, they may as well be valid ones which usually wipes out the "I can build a Linux box for less than the cost of an 'overpriced Apple product' without taking into account the entire package.

     

    Your statements are out of date and irrelevant.

  • Reply 30 of 37
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,864moderator
    I think a Pro keyboard that is built around iPad technology could be the answer.
    I personally don't like the idea of lots of little OLED screens in separate keys.

    Haptic touch would be good on iOS devices:


    [VIDEO]


    http://www.immersion.com

    That would let them see how best to implement a touch keyboard without giving up too much of the tactile feel of the keyboard style people have used for 30 years. OLED is good as it only uses as much power as the illuminated parts. The downside is it would be harder to see in bright light. The thing they have to get right is the distinction between a touch and a press, which is hard to do with purely touch screen. OLED keys could perhaps be a stepping stone to a full touch panel without sacrificing the tactile feedback. In the diagram, the keys wouldn't sink down but rather overlap the metal so they can form a complete surface. This allows them to make a full touch surface and retain the same kind of keyboard people are used to.
  • Reply 31 of 37
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

     

    If you are going to make comparisons, they may as well be valid ones which usually wipes out the "I can build a Linux box for less than the cost of an 'overpriced Apple product' without taking into account the entire package.


     

    Trying to bait me into a fight isn't going to work. Obviously there are people who do that, but I didn't.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

     

    Your statements are out of date and irrelevant.


     

    Really? How so? What's changed?

  • Reply 32 of 37
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GordonPrice67 View Post

     

    Mostly a quick calculation to be sure, but...

    2 GPUs: $1200 (price between the W5000 that is lower performance than the D300, and the W7000 that is similar performance but double the RAM)

    CPU: $400

    12 GB ECC: $200

    256 GB PCIe SSD: $300

    Mobo: $500 (about a $200 premium to account for all the Thunderbolt)

    PSU: $200 


     

    I meant how did you come up with a price of $200-300 for a keyboard like the one described in the patent application?

  • Reply 33 of 37
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

     

    Really? How so? What's changed?


     

    Thunderbolt came along since you made your comparisons, indicating they are at least two years out of date.

  • Reply 34 of 37
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

     

    Thunderbolt came along since you made your comparisons, indicating they are at least two years out of date.


     

    Uh yeah, I said that. Honestly, I think you're looking to stir up conflict where there just isn't grounds for any. What is it that's bothering you so badly? Surely I can't be the first to have pointed out the rather obvious fact that Apple products tend towards the spendy end of the spectrum. Are you suggesting that the existence of Thunderbolt somehow renders my observations invalid? If so, how?

     

    (This is going way off topic. Does anyone else care about this exchange or should we take it private?)

  • Reply 35 of 37
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    It's an old thread and we couldn't read the exchange if it went private so I'm good with it.
  • Reply 36 of 37
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Uh yeah, I said that. Honestly, I think you're looking to stir up conflict where there just isn't grounds for any. What is it that's bothering you so badly? Surely I can't be the first to have pointed out the rather obvious fact that Apple products tend towards the spendy end of the spectrum. Are you suggesting that the existence of Thunderbolt somehow renders my observations invalid? If so, how?

    (This is going way off topic. Does anyone else care about this exchange or should we take it private?)

    The reason Apple is at "the spendy" end of the spectrum is due to the quality of their components a factor not usually taken into consideration when making price comparisons.
  • Reply 37 of 37
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

     
    The reason Apple is at "the spendy" end of the spectrum is due to the quality of their components


     

    True, as well as margins twice as deep as anyone else in the industry.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

     
    a factor not usually taken into consideration when making price comparisons.


     

    Also true, though I did when making my comparisons. I tried to compare as close to feature-for-feature as I could, and you'll note that I accounted for some of the differences in my original remarks.

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