Sorry but the reality is that most public service and emergency personnel followed a path from volunteering in the military to the public service roles such as civilian police and firefighters. They were never in it for the money. They have pride in their service, but no one employed as emergency first responders is expecting to receive the pay equal to the compensation of a corporate CEO. That is just the facts, Jack. They are exceptional people but still lowly public servants. If they wanted a high salary they wouldn't have chosen a career in emergency public service.
I'm sorry I don't agree with your comment. You're correct. They are not going to get rich from the necessary job that they do, nor do they expect to, but maybe they should expect to get a decent salary to live on & have promises kept after years of risking their lives for your safety. Maybe they could not have their pensions & healthcare benefits cut after those years of service. What cracks me up is the importance paid to one person, when it is usually the ideas of a team of people (usually not at the top) that also contribute too the well being of a company, a country or a community. Way to much money for 3 years of service. When these large companies have problems they will cut employees benefits, change rules well into someones career when it comes to pensions & retirement & not bat an eye. She'll make more in 3 years than a whole group of people will make in their whole lives. It's kind of obscene.
Apple granted John Browett 100k shares, but he 5k vested, so Ahrendts is effectively getting 95k of his plus another 18k, if she performs well and sticks around for the next three years.
Over that period of time, her performance should be able to return far more than ~$68M in additional value from the Apple Store.
Yeah, because no one else has ideas or will contribute to her success.
There is a humongous pool of individuals that are highly qualified and can perform the same responsibilities and duties for a lot less money. In fact, I would argue that many work harder, have higher responsibilities, and could be fired at any time for being in the wrong product line (due to some VP shortsightedness) than most of these VPs. It is sickening to see so much money being handed about with little vesting time. Most typical company workers get RSU that start to vest at 5 years, not in 1 month.
Sad to see that people that risk their lives everyday like police, armed forces, firemen, etc. get paid such paltry salaries for risking their lives. Then, see some senior VP get paid over 1000 times more when their lives are not even at risk. Those that risk their lives should be worth a lot more!
In corporations, you are paid according to your expertise and the relative value you bring to the company. This woman came from a similar background when she was with Burberry, and Apple chose her as Senior Vice President over Apple's Retail and Online Stores, a multi-billion dollar operation.
It is easy to say that anyone else is qualified to do the job, and that they are overpaid. Apple is a multi-billion dollar corporation, and their retail operations and online stores are critical to the company. Apple is not just going to entrust such responsibility to just anyone. To devalue this woman's experience and expertise relative to the overall value she brings to the company is arrogant - when you are not qualified yourself to walk in her shoes.
She was already successful at Burberry, which is why she was chosen.
As for the public servants that you speak about, they are not paid by corporations, but by taxpayers. If they are worth more than they are paid, you are welcome to directly contribute to their salary voluntarily. There is nothing stopping you. This isn't socialism, but capitalism - a free market by which the public voluntarily pays the corporations for the products and services it provides - which in turns, pays its employees for the value they bring to the company.
If you want the public service employees to make more money, then find a way for them to be directly funded by the very public that they serve, rather than through government organizations who takes the public's money and decides how to spend it. If you see a problem, offer a solution to the problem, and then do it. Otherwise, your complaint is nothing but noise without taking responsibility to do anything about it.
In corporations, you are paid according to your expertise and the relative value you bring to the company. This woman came from a similar background when she was with Burberry, and Apple chose her as Senior Vice President over Apple's Retail and Online Stores, a multi-billion dollar operation.
It is easy to say that anyone else is qualified to do the job, and that they are overpaid. Apple is a multi-billion dollar corporation, and their retail operations and online stores are critical to the company. Apple is not just going to entrust such responsibility to just anyone. To devalue this woman's experience and expertise relative to the overall value she brings to the company is arrogant - when you are not qualified yourself to walk in her shoes.
She was already successful at Burberry, which is why she was chosen.
As for the public servants that you speak about, they are not paid by corporations, but by taxpayers. If they are worth more than they are paid, you are welcome to directly contribute to their salary voluntarily. There is nothing stopping you. This isn't socialism, but capitalism - a free market by which the public voluntarily pays the corporations for the products and services it provides - which in turns, pays its employees for the value they bring to the company.
If you want the public service employees to make more money, then find a way for them to be directly funded by the very public that they serve, rather than through government organizations who takes the public's money and decides how to spend it. [SIZE=16px]If you see a problem, offer a solution to the problem, and then do it. Otherwise, your complaint is nothing but noise without taking responsibility to do anything about it.[/SIZE]
It's not just her - it's this new "sky class" of corporate execs and media/political elites, living on a whole other plane than, well, yes, the 99% who don't come close (including piddly little millionaires like me), in ways that didn't happen 40 or 50 years ago - except for brief periods to Hollywood stars.
Livin' the dream.... ...movin' on up... ...capitalism was cool, but corporatism is cooler for the coolest...
(PS, not braggin' by revealing my status - just a retired civil servant who put money away every year for 30 years in diversified mutual funds, who lives pretty well and feels hugely fortunate and grateful, but keeps to a budget, drives a (nice) ten year old Camry, nothin' exciting if adequate tech gear, wearing out my clothes, etc. - just trying to illustrate the point that even being in the official socioeconomic upper middle class still doesn't put me even in shouting distance of these people - i.e., there's this vast gulf that's opened up between the "anointed" and the rest of us. And I never felt that way growing up.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW
Senior Vice Presidents of Apple, Inc. have huge responsibilities and salaries and perks commensurate with such. Very few are even qualified. Fewer yet make successes of their positions.
$60M is "a perk" these days...?? Damn. Price o' perks goin' up...
...and, damn, since reading that story, I can't stop thinking about the original (James Caan) version of Rollerblade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InteliusQ
To devalue this woman's experience and expertise relative to the overall value she brings to the company is arrogant - when you are not qualified yourself to walk in her shoes.
At this rate, I'm not even sure I'd be allowed to kiss her ring....
If she has a positive impact on Apple's retail experience, and performance, then yes, she is worth that much because that impact will be far greater, financially, than whatever she's being paid.
The problem with this is determining what was responsible for the impact. Markets can change due to external influences or a product design direction. Customer satisfaction can improve due to the front-line workers being paid very low salaries but the manager gets the millions.
I don't think anyone would have argued that Steve Jobs wasn't worth billions though so it's the same deal. The people higher up become the point of failure. There's very little risk lower down though, especially with a company like Apple. Even Ron Johnson walked away with over $50m after the disaster at JC Penney and only 17 months in the job.
The problem is that even if you do a bad job, you make enough to retire for life. How many interns could do a similarly bad job?
Ahrendts' success will depend on those who are hierarchically below her earning a relative pittance. Such grotesque remuneration disparity doesn't exactly foster group feelings of 'all for one, one for all'.
I'm not sure I would feel comfortable facing my fellow workers with such enormous disparity. I refer to anyone else in a similar position as well.
And who was arguing that is would be stupid for her to leave the $8M possible bonus on the table fromthe previous company. Notice how the first Batch vest in June, this is to make up for what she may have left on the table. As I said before when the rumor came out she would not start till after June when she got her bonus from the previous company this did not make sense and was short sighted on her part if she was actually doing that. Apple did the right thing which I what I expected they would do, the kept her whole.
She was already making millions per year. Perhaps she wants this job as an opportunity for personal accomplishment or to make a difference in the world, not necessarily for the money.
I am sure you are right. My point was a general one about the ridiculousness of hyper wages.
Senior Vice Presidents of Apple, Inc. have huge responsibilities and salaries and perks commensurate with such. Very few are even qualified. Fewer yet make successes of their positions.
Then pay her once she actually completes those responsibilities. Like the rest of us. We don't get pay until we perform.
And the upper income earners pay lower taxes. Sometimes half.
It is very depressing indeed. There is an interesting book called "The Plutocrats" that charts the history of the super rich. People who defend this current state of affairs in the name of capitalism and the free market are closing their eyes to the injustice and brutality of such an unregulated system. No doubt it will all end in disaster (it has to, no?). Here is another short video that describes the discrepancy well. Its pretty shocking http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2?g=5&c=ufb1
Nice first day indeed, but no, nobody is worth that much. You'd think that when people earn ridiculous amounts of money offering them even more is a pointless incentive. If I earned over a million dollars a year and loved my work I would not take a job I liked less for two million. What would be the point?
Everything you say seems right to me. I think these people look at the big piles of money as trophies. It's not about using the money... it's about showing off the money.
I really wish we had a very high marginal tax rate on very high incomes. And a very big inheritance tax on very big inheritances.
Everything you say seems right to me. I think these people look at the big piles of money as trophies. It's not about using the money... it's about showing off the money.
I really wish we had a very high marginal tax rate on very high incomes. And a very big inheritance tax on very big inheritances.
It is very depressing indeed. There is an interesting book called "The Plutocrats" that charts the history of the super rich. People who defend this current state of affairs in the name of capitalism and the free market are closing their eyes to the injustice and brutality of such an unregulated system. No doubt it will all end in disaster (it has to, no?). Here is another short video that describes the discrepancy well. Its pretty shocking http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2?g=5&c=ufb1
Thanks for the link. I think the makers of that video don't seem to realise that the wealth that top 1% has is gained by having money to invest and therefore grows exponentially once they have money to burn. They invest and gain more money because they are able to. The poor do not have the means to get there, and should understand that one can 'only' get more rich once all the primary necessities are in place: food, shelter, safety and so on. That's not to say that one cannot get rich while being poor, I mean that Angela Ahrendts gets her RSU bonus based on previous achievements. Whether the amount of RSU is too high is another discussion altogether.
While they narrator makes a good point on showing the difference between perception and reality, they totally missed the point on why things are the way they are. Personal opinion, obviously, but that article/video gets a thumb down from me.
I don't think there's any injustice or brutality in the system of capitalism. It's the way things work. What could be considered injustice is how the rich got rich. Just read that article on Samsung that [@]SolipsismX[/@] [@]GTR[/@] posted; they certainly didn't become rich and successful by doing an honourable job.
Comments
Sorry but the reality is that most public service and emergency personnel followed a path from volunteering in the military to the public service roles such as civilian police and firefighters. They were never in it for the money. They have pride in their service, but no one employed as emergency first responders is expecting to receive the pay equal to the compensation of a corporate CEO. That is just the facts, Jack. They are exceptional people but still lowly public servants. If they wanted a high salary they wouldn't have chosen a career in emergency public service.
I'm sorry I don't agree with your comment. You're correct. They are not going to get rich from the necessary job that they do, nor do they expect to, but maybe they should expect to get a decent salary to live on & have promises kept after years of risking their lives for your safety. Maybe they could not have their pensions & healthcare benefits cut after those years of service. What cracks me up is the importance paid to one person, when it is usually the ideas of a team of people (usually not at the top) that also contribute too the well being of a company, a country or a community. Way to much money for 3 years of service. When these large companies have problems they will cut employees benefits, change rules well into someones career when it comes to pensions & retirement & not bat an eye. She'll make more in 3 years than a whole group of people will make in their whole lives. It's kind of obscene.
Apple granted John Browett 100k shares, but he 5k vested, so Ahrendts is effectively getting 95k of his plus another 18k, if she performs well and sticks around for the next three years.
Over that period of time, her performance should be able to return far more than ~$68M in additional value from the Apple Store.
Yeah, because no one else has ideas or will contribute to her success.
There is a humongous pool of individuals that are highly qualified and can perform the same responsibilities and duties for a lot less money. In fact, I would argue that many work harder, have higher responsibilities, and could be fired at any time for being in the wrong product line (due to some VP shortsightedness) than most of these VPs. It is sickening to see so much money being handed about with little vesting time. Most typical company workers get RSU that start to vest at 5 years, not in 1 month.
Sad to see that people that risk their lives everyday like police, armed forces, firemen, etc. get paid such paltry salaries for risking their lives. Then, see some senior VP get paid over 1000 times more when their lives are not even at risk. Those that risk their lives should be worth a lot more!
In corporations, you are paid according to your expertise and the relative value you bring to the company. This woman came from a similar background when she was with Burberry, and Apple chose her as Senior Vice President over Apple's Retail and Online Stores, a multi-billion dollar operation.
It is easy to say that anyone else is qualified to do the job, and that they are overpaid. Apple is a multi-billion dollar corporation, and their retail operations and online stores are critical to the company. Apple is not just going to entrust such responsibility to just anyone. To devalue this woman's experience and expertise relative to the overall value she brings to the company is arrogant - when you are not qualified yourself to walk in her shoes.
She was already successful at Burberry, which is why she was chosen.
As for the public servants that you speak about, they are not paid by corporations, but by taxpayers. If they are worth more than they are paid, you are welcome to directly contribute to their salary voluntarily. There is nothing stopping you. This isn't socialism, but capitalism - a free market by which the public voluntarily pays the corporations for the products and services it provides - which in turns, pays its employees for the value they bring to the company.
If you want the public service employees to make more money, then find a way for them to be directly funded by the very public that they serve, rather than through government organizations who takes the public's money and decides how to spend it. If you see a problem, offer a solution to the problem, and then do it. Otherwise, your complaint is nothing but noise without taking responsibility to do anything about it.
Not sure about that. Perhaps all you have to do is turn up. (Then have a crack at the Penske files)
Hehe. Love such a (seemingly) cryptic reply. I miss Seinfeld.
Any data on the salary of the average worker at Apple in the US? Salary for the execs? Steve was $1 (with perks, of course).
What about for the Foxconn employees?
Do they get hiring bonuses?
Just in the last hour I watched the Bill Moyers interview with Krugman where they discussed the book by Piketty. Then I saw this topic. Ugh.
We'll put!
Nice first day on the job!
Really, is any one person worth that much?
It's not just her - it's this new "sky class" of corporate execs and media/political elites, living on a whole other plane than, well, yes, the 99% who don't come close (including piddly little millionaires like me), in ways that didn't happen 40 or 50 years ago - except for brief periods to Hollywood stars.
Livin' the dream.... ...movin' on up... ...capitalism was cool, but corporatism is cooler for the coolest...
(PS, not braggin' by revealing my status - just a retired civil servant who put money away every year for 30 years in diversified mutual funds, who lives pretty well and feels hugely fortunate and grateful, but keeps to a budget, drives a (nice) ten year old Camry, nothin' exciting if adequate tech gear, wearing out my clothes, etc. - just trying to illustrate the point that even being in the official socioeconomic upper middle class still doesn't put me even in shouting distance of these people - i.e., there's this vast gulf that's opened up between the "anointed" and the rest of us. And I never felt that way growing up.)
Quote:
Senior Vice Presidents of Apple, Inc. have huge responsibilities and salaries and perks commensurate with such. Very few are even qualified. Fewer yet make successes of their positions.
$60M is "a perk" these days...?? Damn. Price o' perks goin' up...
...and, damn, since reading that story, I can't stop thinking about the original (James Caan) version of Rollerblade.
Quote:
To devalue this woman's experience and expertise relative to the overall value she brings to the company is arrogant - when you are not qualified yourself to walk in her shoes.
At this rate, I'm not even sure I'd be allowed to kiss her ring....
"...and you will do what you are told
Until the rights to you are sold..."
~Frank Zappa
Not glass windows, through the glass ceiling. Women tend not to go up there as you can see up their skirts.
In comparison to the billionaire stock owners, it's relatively small. Carl Icahn has ~100x this amount.
The problem with this is determining what was responsible for the impact. Markets can change due to external influences or a product design direction. Customer satisfaction can improve due to the front-line workers being paid very low salaries but the manager gets the millions.
I don't think anyone would have argued that Steve Jobs wasn't worth billions though so it's the same deal. The people higher up become the point of failure. There's very little risk lower down though, especially with a company like Apple. Even Ron Johnson walked away with over $50m after the disaster at JC Penney and only 17 months in the job.
The problem is that even if you do a bad job, you make enough to retire for life. How many interns could do a similarly bad job?
Ahrendts' success will depend on those who are hierarchically below her earning a relative pittance. Such grotesque remuneration disparity doesn't exactly foster group feelings of 'all for one, one for all'.
I'm not sure I would feel comfortable facing my fellow workers with such enormous disparity. I refer to anyone else in a similar position as well.
And who was arguing that is would be stupid for her to leave the $8M possible bonus on the table fromthe previous company. Notice how the first Batch vest in June, this is to make up for what she may have left on the table. As I said before when the rumor came out she would not start till after June when she got her bonus from the previous company this did not make sense and was short sighted on her part if she was actually doing that. Apple did the right thing which I what I expected they would do, the kept her whole.
And Chinese iPhone / iPad workers make a pittance and live in communal housing. Seems fair.
I am sure you are right. My point was a general one about the ridiculousness of hyper wages.
Watch this. I can't get the nerve to buy the book; it might be too depressing.
http://www.upworthy.com/what-the-1-dont-want-you-to-know?c=huf1
331 to 1
CEO vs average employee salary
And the upper income earners pay lower taxes. Sometimes half.
First you should work on not blowing up every one you see. They’ll be less likely to beat you to the ground an arrest you that way. Baby steps.
Senior Vice Presidents of Apple, Inc. have huge responsibilities and salaries and perks commensurate with such. Very few are even qualified. Fewer yet make successes of their positions.
Then pay her once she actually completes those responsibilities. Like the rest of us. We don't get pay until we perform.
Watch this. I can't get the nerve to buy the book; it might be too depressing.
http://www.upworthy.com/what-the-1-dont-want-you-to-know?c=huf1
331 to 1
CEO vs average employee salary
And the upper income earners pay lower taxes. Sometimes half.
It is very depressing indeed. There is an interesting book called "The Plutocrats" that charts the history of the super rich. People who defend this current state of affairs in the name of capitalism and the free market are closing their eyes to the injustice and brutality of such an unregulated system. No doubt it will all end in disaster (it has to, no?). Here is another short video that describes the discrepancy well. Its pretty shocking http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2?g=5&c=ufb1
Nice first day indeed, but no, nobody is worth that much. You'd think that when people earn ridiculous amounts of money offering them even more is a pointless incentive. If I earned over a million dollars a year and loved my work I would not take a job I liked less for two million. What would be the point?
Everything you say seems right to me. I think these people look at the big piles of money as trophies. It's not about using the money... it's about showing off the money.
I really wish we had a very high marginal tax rate on very high incomes. And a very big inheritance tax on very big inheritances.
FairTax, baby. Eliminate the income tax entirely.
Thanks for the link. I think the makers of that video don't seem to realise that the wealth that top 1% has is gained by having money to invest and therefore grows exponentially once they have money to burn. They invest and gain more money because they are able to. The poor do not have the means to get there, and should understand that one can 'only' get more rich once all the primary necessities are in place: food, shelter, safety and so on. That's not to say that one cannot get rich while being poor, I mean that Angela Ahrendts gets her RSU bonus based on previous achievements. Whether the amount of RSU is too high is another discussion altogether.
While they narrator makes a good point on showing the difference between perception and reality, they totally missed the point on why things are the way they are. Personal opinion, obviously, but that article/video gets a thumb down from me.
I don't think there's any injustice or brutality in the system of capitalism. It's the way things work. What could be considered injustice is how the rich got rich. Just read that article on Samsung that
[@]SolipsismX[/@][@]GTR[/@] posted; they certainly didn't become rich and successful by doing an honourable job.How is a country going to pay for 'everything' then? How will roads and infrastructure remain maintained? Education? Health care?
Sorry, totally OT, but I don't get your statement.