1) Absolutely not! I'm a scientist. If it can't be proven then there is a chance it's not accurate. I've even recanted on comments I've made simply because I was not able to back them up even though my memory told me I was correct. If I won't do it for myself why would I do it for anyone else?
2) I did see some quotes that range from "There will be new product categories" to "There will be new categories" but they never seem to include any context as what was being discussed. I've also seen the same statements in a WSJ interview and an earnings call but, again, no context. For that to be a slam dunk in regards to Cook stating it it would have had to state he's talking about a new major HW product category without any disambiguation and state a time frame that make it clear. SW can be a new product category, too. That said, I think it's likely we'll see Apple announce a major HW product category this year, but that's a guess based on many feelings I mostly have about state-of-the-art of certain technologies and Apple's revenue plateauing.
3) Wouldn't Apple buying Beats Electronics give them a new HW product category? Certainly a new segment of that product category. Beats Music definitely give Apple a music subscription service, which they've never had, so that is a new SW product category with its own revenue stream. If we fill in the blanks to support our desires are really doing ourselves a service?
He was quite explicit, though tempered it with 'what anyone would reasonably call a new product category.' Due this year, he said.
Then we need evidence to support the claim.
Or you could just believe me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost
Or you could just believe me.
1) Absolutely not! I'm a scientist. If it can't be proven then there is a chance it's not accurate. I've even recanted on comments I've made simply because I was not able to back them up even though my memory told me I was correct. If I won't do it for myself why would I do it for anyone else?
2) I did see some quotes that range from "There will be new product categories" to "There will be new categories" but they never seem to include any context as what was being discussed. I've also seen the same statements in a WSJ interview and an earnings call but, again, no context. For that to be a slam dunk in regards to Cook stating it it would have had to state he's talking about a new major HW product category without any disambiguation and state a time frame that make it clear. SW can be a new product category, too. That said, I think it's likely we'll see Apple announce a major HW product category this year, but that's a guess based on many feelings I mostly have about state-of-the-art of certain technologies and Apple's revenue plateauing.
3) Wouldn't Apple buying Beats Electronics give them a new HW product category? Certainly a new segment of that product category. Beats Music definitely give Apple a music subscription service, which they've never had, so that is a new SW product category with its own revenue stream. If we fill in the blanks to support our desires are really doing ourselves a service?
1 Here's the thing: I know Tim said it, but I don't care enough to go hunting for an article where it quotes him. You or I could do this, so if you really need proof, you're welcome to go looking.
2+3 Headphones could be called a new product category for Apple, but they are hardly going to set the world alight, so I'm sure that he is referring to something else, even if it's modified headphones. A subscription service is more plausible.
...but they are hardly going to set the world alight, so I'm sure that he is referring to something else...
That's the problem in a nutshell.
Your desire is for it be something amazing, earth-shattering, game-changing, and awe-inspiring so you've concluded without any evidence that he must be referring to something better than we've seen with Beats as being *new* for Apple. My desire is the same, but it's not logical to take executive speak and build a fantasy around it.
Remember he's been saying for years that they have great products in the pipeline — and we know that they have released great products since he took over — but people have irrationally chosen to interrupt that that being a new revolutionary product category and then have chosen to get upset or claim Apple is faltering because their fantastical aspirations weren't met.
...but they are hardly going to set the world alight, so I'm sure that he is referring to something else...
That's the problem in a nutshell.
Your desire is for it be something amazing, earth-shattering, game-changing, and awe-inspiring so you've concluded without any evidence that he must be referring to something better than we've seen with Beats as being *new* for Apple. My desire is the same, but it's not logical to take executive speak and build a fantasy around it.
Remember he's been saying for years that they have great products in the pipeline — and we know that they have released great products since he took over — but people have irrationally chosen to interrupt that that being a new revolutionary product category and then have chosen to get upset or claim Apple is faltering because their fantastical aspirations weren't met.
I think it was a quarterly conference call where Tim made the comment.
Whilst it's theoretically possible that he could have been referring to the Beats headphones, it's highly unlikely. The call was over an hour long, and he said a whole lot more pertaining to the topic. Sometimes one has to go beyond logic for evidence and examine tone, intent and history. When it comes to predicting future Apple products, there's not much else you can do, other than leaks.
I think Apple may even keep the calls as podcasts, so you can listen to the scintillating details!
When it comes to predicting future Apple products, there's not much else you can do, other than leaks.
1) There is nothing with making predictions based on the historical data patterns and circumstantial evidence but don't confuse that with proof. The end result is playing the odds so even if you're right you can't take that win as proof that the same methodology will work out every time. It's like playing Blackjack where you are showing an 11 and the dealer a 16. The odds say you should double down but there is no guarantee you'll win that hand.
2) The year before Mavericks was demoed I constructed an argument as to why I thought it might behoove Apple financially to make Mac OS X free for all users. My argument was based on many factors, like iOS being free, an implication that major Mac OS X updates would happen annually, the paid MobileMe being replaced with the free iCloud, Apple's profits coming from the HW, Mac OS X users being spread out across many generations (unlike iOS), and a variety of reasons why I felt it could save Apple and 3rd-party developers money if they can focus Mac support for a smaller subset of OSes whilst targeting more users. It was a hypothesis (and it wast well liked) but in no way does that make me clairvoyant or make any future arguments that contain zero hard evidence as likely to be correct.
When it comes to predicting future Apple products, there's not much else you can do, other than leaks.
1) There is nothing with making predictions based on the historical data patterns and circumstantial evidence but don't confuse that with proof. The end result is playing the odds so even if you're right you can't take that win as proof that the same methodology will work out every time. It's like playing Blackjack where you are showing an 11 and the dealer a 16. The odds say you should double down but there is no guarantee you'll win that hand.
2) The year before Mavericks was demoed I constructed an argument as to why I thought it might behoove Apple financially to make Mac OS X free for all users. My argument was based on many factors, like iOS being free, an implication that major Mac OS X updates would happen annually, the paid MobileMe being replaced with the free iCloud, Apple's profits coming from the HW, Mac OS X users being spread out across many generations (unlike iOS), and a variety of reasons why I felt it could save Apple and 3rd-party developers money if they can focus Mac support for a smaller subset of OSes whilst targeting more users. It was a hypothesis (and it wast well liked) but in no way does that make me clairvoyant or make any future arguments that contain zero hard evidence as likely to be correct.
I take all your points! It's just that, in this case, Tim Cook categorically referred to new product categories coming by this year, which is a very unusual thing to do for a shareholder call. So it's reasonable to suppose that he'll stick to his word. Personally, I'm not convinced we'll see an iWatch, because Cook was so down on the idea himself—he said "No-one wears watches these days" or something similar. On the other hand, that could be a bluff.
I take all your points! It's just that, in this case, Tim Cook categorically referred to new product categories coming by this year, which is a very unusual thing to do for a shareholder call. So it's reasonable to suppose that he'll stick to his word.
Here is the Forbes article previously referenced in this thread. Where in there is undeniable evidence?
Personally, I'm not convinced we'll see an iWatch, because Cook was so down on the idea himself—he said "No-one wears watches these days" or something similar. On the other hand, that could be a bluff.
I seem to recall Jobs making such statements in the past, but the "current lot of [16:9] 7" tablets are DOA" comment is not one of them.
I take all your points! It's just that, in this case, Tim Cook categorically referred to new product categories coming by this year, which is a very unusual thing to do for a shareholder call. So it's reasonable to suppose that he'll stick to his word.
Here is the Forbes article previously referenced in this thread. Where in there is undeniable evidence?
Personally, I'm not convinced we'll see an iWatch, because Cook was so down on the idea himself—he said "No-one wears watches these days" or something similar. On the other hand, that could be a bluff.
I seem to recall Jobs making such statements in the past, but the "current lot of [16:9] 7" tablets are DOA" comment is not one of them.
The no one wears watches quote was I think with an interview with Mossberg. The Forbes article you cite refers to another time. It's very incomplete. Tim Cook did actually use the words 'new product categories' in that order! It may have been singular. As I say, I think it was a quarterly call, so you may struggle to find the exact quote. Seeking Alpha keep complete transcripts of the Apple calls.
There's no doubt in my mind that Cook explicitly referred to them—just a question now of sitting back and waiting for them this year. Might be next week if we're lucky; otherwise, September/October like normal, huh?
The no one wears watches quote was I think with an interview with Mossberg. The Forbes article you cite refers to another time. It's very incomplete. Tim Cook did actually use the words 'new product categories' in that order! It may have been singular. As I say, I think it was a quarterly call, so you may struggle to find the exact quote. Seeking Alpha keep complete transcripts of the Apple calls.
There's no doubt in my mind that Cook explicitly referred to them—just a question now of sitting back and waiting for them this year. Might be next week if we're lucky; otherwise, September/October like normal, huh?
1) If he said that then he's axiomatically wrong. Watches are billion dollar business. Of course, he surely didn't mean that to be taken literally (which I think you'd agree) then can we expect everything else he's stated to be taken literally, especially when there is still no proof presented that indicates that he stated there will be new HW product categories by the end of 2014 or within a year's time. If this was such an amazing statement and not one that was misinterpreted by saucer-eyed Apple fans then why can't it be easy found in full context? I'm curious why you don't find that suspicious.
2) Note that if Apple releases advanced wearable CE (not just the headphones we've had for many decades) I think the wrist is a great location which is a big reason why wristwatches have had a better lifespan over pocket watches. But I wouldn't call this a watch or even a smartwatch, and you may have noticed I use some form of the terms wearable or wrist-worn device. I think that's an important distinction.
The no one wears watches quote was I think with an interview with Mossberg. The Forbes article you cite refers to another time. It's very incomplete. Tim Cook did actually use the words 'new product categories' in that order! It may have been singular. As I say, I think it was a quarterly call, so you may struggle to find the exact quote. Seeking Alpha keep complete transcripts of the Apple calls.
There's no doubt in my mind that Cook explicitly referred to them—just a question now of sitting back and waiting for them this year. Might be next week if we're lucky; otherwise, September/October like normal, huh?
1) If he said that then he's axiomatically wrong. Watches are billion dollar business. Of course, he surely didn't mean that to be taken literally (which I think you'd agree) then can we expect everything else he's stated to be taken literally, especially when there is still no proof presented that indicates that he stated there will be new HW product categories by the end of 2014 or within a year's time. If this was such an amazing statement and not one that was misinterpreted by saucer-eyed Apple fans then why can't it be easy found in full context? I'm curious why you don't find that suspicious.
2) Note that if Apple releases advanced wearable CE (not just the headphones we've had for many decades) I think the wrist is a great location which is a big reason why wristwatches have had a better lifespan over pocket watches. But I wouldn't call this a watch or even a smartwatch, and you may have noticed I use some form of the terms wearable or wrist-worn device. I think that's an important distinction.
The new product category quote was widely reported at the time it was made. It seems that neither you nor I can be bothered to look for it. That doesn't mean there's no proof; it just means that neither of us care enough about it—me, because my memory serves me well, you, because either you missed the news or you've forgotten it.
Edit: also, I don't know why you put any store in media articles as 'proof.' If you were being truly scientific, you would only regard the original source material as definitive proof, which, in this case, means you need to hear a recording of the original interviews or earnings call. All reports are smoke and mirrors to some extent, including my own.
You could always drop an email to Cook for clarification; I hear he answers them!
It seems that neither you nor I can be bothered to look for it.!
I did look for it. I mentioned I looked for it. I stated various comments I found had titles stating this was said but then no evidence therein that it was said. I heard nothing at the 2Q 2014 conference call nor read anything from the Mossberg transcript. You were the one that said you wouldn't look for it and then told me to just except it as gospel.
It seems that neither you nor I can be bothered to look for it.!
I did look for it. I mentioned I looked for it. I stated various comments I found had titles stating this was said but then no evidence therein that it was said. I heard nothing at the Q 2014 conference call nor read anything from the Mossberg transcript. You were the one that said you wouldn't look for it and then told me to just except it as gospel.
Comments
Don't you remember Tim Cook saying it? He said it either last year or this; I can't remember when.
I seem to recall something that was interpreted as such but I don't recall a direct statement of a new product category.
He was quite explicit, though tempered it with 'what anyone would reasonably call a new product category.' Due this year, he said.
Then we need evidence to support the claim.
He was quite explicit, though tempered it with 'what anyone would reasonably call a new product category.' Due this year, he said.
Then we need evidence to support the claim.
Or you could just believe me.
1) Absolutely not! I'm a scientist. If it can't be proven then there is a chance it's not accurate. I've even recanted on comments I've made simply because I was not able to back them up even though my memory told me I was correct. If I won't do it for myself why would I do it for anyone else?
2) I did see some quotes that range from "There will be new product categories" to "There will be new categories" but they never seem to include any context as what was being discussed. I've also seen the same statements in a WSJ interview and an earnings call but, again, no context. For that to be a slam dunk in regards to Cook stating it it would have had to state he's talking about a new major HW product category without any disambiguation and state a time frame that make it clear. SW can be a new product category, too. That said, I think it's likely we'll see Apple announce a major HW product category this year, but that's a guess based on many feelings I mostly have about state-of-the-art of certain technologies and Apple's revenue plateauing.
3) Wouldn't Apple buying Beats Electronics give them a new HW product category? Certainly a new segment of that product category. Beats Music definitely give Apple a music subscription service, which they've never had, so that is a new SW product category with its own revenue stream. If we fill in the blanks to support our desires are really doing ourselves a service?
He was quite explicit, though tempered it with 'what anyone would reasonably call a new product category.' Due this year, he said.
Then we need evidence to support the claim.
Or you could just believe me.
Or you could just believe me.
1) Absolutely not! I'm a scientist. If it can't be proven then there is a chance it's not accurate. I've even recanted on comments I've made simply because I was not able to back them up even though my memory told me I was correct. If I won't do it for myself why would I do it for anyone else?
2) I did see some quotes that range from "There will be new product categories" to "There will be new categories" but they never seem to include any context as what was being discussed. I've also seen the same statements in a WSJ interview and an earnings call but, again, no context. For that to be a slam dunk in regards to Cook stating it it would have had to state he's talking about a new major HW product category without any disambiguation and state a time frame that make it clear. SW can be a new product category, too. That said, I think it's likely we'll see Apple announce a major HW product category this year, but that's a guess based on many feelings I mostly have about state-of-the-art of certain technologies and Apple's revenue plateauing.
3) Wouldn't Apple buying Beats Electronics give them a new HW product category? Certainly a new segment of that product category. Beats Music definitely give Apple a music subscription service, which they've never had, so that is a new SW product category with its own revenue stream. If we fill in the blanks to support our desires are really doing ourselves a service?
1 Here's the thing: I know Tim said it, but I don't care enough to go hunting for an article where it quotes him. You or I could do this, so if you really need proof, you're welcome to go looking.
2+3 Headphones could be called a new product category for Apple, but they are hardly going to set the world alight, so I'm sure that he is referring to something else, even if it's modified headphones. A subscription service is more plausible.
That's the problem in a nutshell.
Your desire is for it be something amazing, earth-shattering, game-changing, and awe-inspiring so you've concluded without any evidence that he must be referring to something better than we've seen with Beats as being *new* for Apple. My desire is the same, but it's not logical to take executive speak and build a fantasy around it.
Remember he's been saying for years that they have great products in the pipeline — and we know that they have released great products since he took over — but people have irrationally chosen to interrupt that that being a new revolutionary product category and then have chosen to get upset or claim Apple is faltering because their fantastical aspirations weren't met.
...but they are hardly going to set the world alight, so I'm sure that he is referring to something else...
That's the problem in a nutshell.
Your desire is for it be something amazing, earth-shattering, game-changing, and awe-inspiring so you've concluded without any evidence that he must be referring to something better than we've seen with Beats as being *new* for Apple. My desire is the same, but it's not logical to take executive speak and build a fantasy around it.
Remember he's been saying for years that they have great products in the pipeline — and we know that they have released great products since he took over — but people have irrationally chosen to interrupt that that being a new revolutionary product category and then have chosen to get upset or claim Apple is faltering because their fantastical aspirations weren't met.
I think it was a quarterly conference call where Tim made the comment.
Whilst it's theoretically possible that he could have been referring to the Beats headphones, it's highly unlikely. The call was over an hour long, and he said a whole lot more pertaining to the topic. Sometimes one has to go beyond logic for evidence and examine tone, intent and history. When it comes to predicting future Apple products, there's not much else you can do, other than leaks.
I think Apple may even keep the calls as podcasts, so you can listen to the scintillating details!
1) There is nothing with making predictions based on the historical data patterns and circumstantial evidence but don't confuse that with proof. The end result is playing the odds so even if you're right you can't take that win as proof that the same methodology will work out every time. It's like playing Blackjack where you are showing an 11 and the dealer a 16. The odds say you should double down but there is no guarantee you'll win that hand.
2) The year before Mavericks was demoed I constructed an argument as to why I thought it might behoove Apple financially to make Mac OS X free for all users. My argument was based on many factors, like iOS being free, an implication that major Mac OS X updates would happen annually, the paid MobileMe being replaced with the free iCloud, Apple's profits coming from the HW, Mac OS X users being spread out across many generations (unlike iOS), and a variety of reasons why I felt it could save Apple and 3rd-party developers money if they can focus Mac support for a smaller subset of OSes whilst targeting more users. It was a hypothesis (and it wast well liked) but in no way does that make me clairvoyant or make any future arguments that contain zero hard evidence as likely to be correct.
I take all your points! It's just that, in this case, Tim Cook categorically referred to new product categories coming by this year, which is a very unusual thing to do for a shareholder call. So it's reasonable to suppose that he'll stick to his word. Personally, I'm not convinced we'll see an iWatch, because Cook was so down on the idea himself—he said "No-one wears watches these days" or something similar. On the other hand, that could be a bluff.
Here is the Forbes article previously referenced in this thread. Where in there is undeniable evidence?
I seem to recall Jobs making such statements in the past, but the "current lot of [16:9] 7" tablets are DOA" comment is not one of them.
The no one wears watches quote was I think with an interview with Mossberg. The Forbes article you cite refers to another time. It's very incomplete. Tim Cook did actually use the words 'new product categories' in that order! It may have been singular. As I say, I think it was a quarterly call, so you may struggle to find the exact quote. Seeking Alpha keep complete transcripts of the Apple calls.
There's no doubt in my mind that Cook explicitly referred to them—just a question now of sitting back and waiting for them this year. Might be next week if we're lucky; otherwise, September/October like normal, huh?
1) If he said that then he's axiomatically wrong. Watches are billion dollar business. Of course, he surely didn't mean that to be taken literally (which I think you'd agree) then can we expect everything else he's stated to be taken literally, especially when there is still no proof presented that indicates that he stated there will be new HW product categories by the end of 2014 or within a year's time. If this was such an amazing statement and not one that was misinterpreted by saucer-eyed Apple fans then why can't it be easy found in full context? I'm curious why you don't find that suspicious.
2) Note that if Apple releases advanced wearable CE (not just the headphones we've had for many decades) I think the wrist is a great location which is a big reason why wristwatches have had a better lifespan over pocket watches. But I wouldn't call this a watch or even a smartwatch, and you may have noticed I use some form of the terms wearable or wrist-worn device. I think that's an important distinction.
Is Apple morphing into Sony to become a full fledged consumer electronics company? Will we see Apple refrigerators, lawn mowers, etc. all running iOS?
Yes-and toasters.
When I was describing to my wife the size of the RAID I wanted to buy I said "it's kind of like a toaster."
We wound up buying one. We call it "the toaster."
The new product category quote was widely reported at the time it was made. It seems that neither you nor I can be bothered to look for it. That doesn't mean there's no proof; it just means that neither of us care enough about it—me, because my memory serves me well, you, because either you missed the news or you've forgotten it.
Edit: also, I don't know why you put any store in media articles as 'proof.' If you were being truly scientific, you would only regard the original source material as definitive proof, which, in this case, means you need to hear a recording of the original interviews or earnings call. All reports are smoke and mirrors to some extent, including my own.
You could always drop an email to Cook for clarification; I hear he answers them!
When I was describing to my wife the size of the RAID I wanted to buy I said "it's kind of like a toaster."
We wound up buying one. We call it "the toaster."
It would be cool if someone made a toaster that looked like an NAS.
Thanks for your efforts
http://www.soran.edu.iq
I did look for it. I mentioned I looked for it. I stated various comments I found had titles stating this was said but then no evidence therein that it was said. I heard nothing at the 2Q 2014 conference call nor read anything from the Mossberg transcript. You were the one that said you wouldn't look for it and then told me to just except it as gospel.
Sure. I was a bit unfair to you.
I'm very much interested in what is new in the pipeline. And yes I'm expecting much in the way of new hardware and software.