Judge voices concern over settlement in Apple anti-poaching suit, may not approve agreement

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 50
    pubbypubby Posts: 6member
    Most of the folks who are supporting Apple in this case are "JEALOUS" that they are not part of this law suit. Well its given that the justice is made by the rich for the rich period.

    How many wall street guys do we see behind the bars ? All the banks got north of $25B from TARP money and now they want to pay back $10-12B and get off all the scams they did.

    Would a normal citizen who robs a bank get the same justice as the banks ? Not really and the same goes to Apple, Google, Adobe and Intel. Steve Jobs in his interview with Walt Mossberg and Kara Swisher ( All Things D) stated that he and Apple stands for principles and ethics, when he was asked about the Gizmodo episode. What kind of principles and ethics are we talking about when you sabotage the careers of your own employees. I am a fan of SJ and Apple but in this case i support the employees.
  • Reply 22 of 50
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

     

    There are a group of people who are job jumpers all they do is jump from one job to another in hopes to pump up their title and pay, these people think they are worth more than than they really are. They will immediate jump from one company to another for a title change or a little bit more money.


    Excuse me, but if someone is hired at a higher rate of pay, then they are by definition worth that higher pay. Don't criticize them for selling their skills to the highest bidder. That's what people should do.

  • Reply 23 of 50
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,772member
    Those employees need to be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars each...not a couple of thousand dollars. Google, Apple and friends need to pay up.
  • Reply 24 of 50
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pubby View Post



    Steve Jobs in his interview with Walt Mossberg and Kara Swisher ( All Things D) stated that he and Apple stands for principles and ethics, when he was asked about the Gizmodo episode. What kind of principles and ethics are we talking about when you sabotage the careers of your own employees. I am a fan of SJ and Apple but in this case i support the employees.

     

    I agree that Apple was wrong and the employees are right in this case.

     

    However I don't think Apple's intention was to "sabotage" anyone's career or to save a few bucks in salaries. I think they were mainly concerned with losing key talent to poachers and having business secrets exposed to competitors.

     

    Nonetheless it was a wrong move both legally and ethically, considering the implications for the employees.

     

    Incidentally, the agreement between the companies was to not poach or solicit each other's talent. I read nothing indicating they were preventing employees from seeking better pay elsewhere on their own.

  • Reply 25 of 50
    I'm guessing a bit of judicial misconduct, if not just judicial stupidity. I'm not hating on Judge Koh, but once you allow the plaintiffs and their attorneys to set up a class action, you don't get to unilaterally change your mind and act as if it's NOT a class action because one of the plaintiffs heard that the respondents have a lot of money and decided they want it. Which is it? Is Apple defending against a class action or against a number of individual plaintiffs? How can you conduct a judicial process if the plaintiffs aren't identified or if that identity changes on a whim?
  • Reply 26 of 50
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by Pubby View Post

    Most of the folks who are supporting Apple in this case are "JEALOUS" that they are not part of this law suit.

     

    Your proof of this is what?

     

    Well its given that the justice is made by the rich for the rich period.


     

    Oh, you’re one of those. I see.

     

    I am a fan of SJ and Apple but…


     

    Just stop.

  • Reply 27 of 50
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

     

    I still stand on the fact of those 74K individual how many really think they had rats chance in hell to get a job at any one of those companies... I bet if we all saw the list of names there would be a common thread in the list. There are a group of people who are job jumpers all they do is jump from one job to another in hopes to pump up their title and pay, these people think they are worth more than than they really are. They will immediate jump from one company to another for a title change or a little bit more money.


     

    In today's corporate environment, where most companies couldn't care less about their employees and no employee can count on any semblance of long term job security, you can't blame employees for looking out for their own interests and doing whatever it takes to maximize their earning potential. In fact, it's stupid to do otherwise. In many companies the only way to get a significant wage increase is via a promotion, and in many cases the company org structure makes that difficult or impossible for many, regardless of their talent or performance. In these cases the only alternative is to move to another company.

  • Reply 28 of 50
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member
    "...defendants were getting off easy considering their considerable cash reserves."

    Everyone thinks they are entitled to those cash reserves.

    Sounds to me like these reserves were acquired through cheating the employment system, which means at the cost of both the taxpayer (hopefully you), the capitalist society at large (includes me), and the employees that do not get their fair deal.

    Entitles everyone quoted above to a share of that ill-begotten money. How large a share is debatable, which could be settled under the "I have more spearmen than you" rule, or by a court.

    Everything seems to run as good as humans can make it run. It is not perfect, but we humans aren't.
  • Reply 29 of 50
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member
    Also, it baffles me that in the US it seems a class action prevents the State from pursuing their own action. What do I miss here?
  • Reply 30 of 50
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post



    Those employees need to be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars each...not a couple of thousand dollars. Google, Apple and friends need to pay up.

    That's absurd.  A few thousands dollars seems like appropriate compensation for employees who might have been recruited if these companies didn't have (perhaps informal) agreements to not do that.  Hundreds of thousands of dollars per person--who can't prove that they were personally affected--is nuts.  The settlement might be on the low side--Apple and others should feel some pain and be discouraged from going down this path again--but it's not off by a factor of 100.

  • Reply 31 of 50
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post



    Also, it baffles me that in the US it seems a class action prevents the State from pursuing their own action. What do I miss here?

    It doesn't.  But if the various authorities who could bring legal action believe that justice has been served, then it's appropriate that they wouldn't take any further action.

  • Reply 32 of 50
    pubbypubby Posts: 6member



    Do you know how many had the chance? As someone responded to you "People have every right to sell their skills" and because their skills are valued, they are offered higher pays and titles at other companies" on the contrary can we say " People doesn't have the skills  to go to other places and thats why they stay longer in their jobs". Not really, Some people are passionate about their work and some are passionate about money and title. When companies can market their products and sell at a higher price why not people. Your argument makes no sense and neither of us know if everyone other offers.  This is a clear case of salary fixing and conspiracy against the employers and all these four companies as corrupt as wall street. 

  • Reply 33 of 50
    waterrocketswaterrockets Posts: 1,231member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post



    There are plenty of highly trained people in India and China who would be glad for the work.

     

    You have to be really careful there. Quality of work is a tremendous risk with that option, and you have to invest significant money in management to mitigate.

     

    There's a reason that companies in my home town are paying $100k-$400k for Java developers when you can get them for $11k overseas.

  • Reply 34 of 50
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,599member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

     

    Excuse me, but if someone is hired at a higher rate of pay, then they are by definition worth that higher pay. Don't criticize them for selling their skills to the highest bidder. That's what people should do.


     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

     

     

    In today's corporate environment, where most companies couldn't care less about their employees and no employee can count on any semblance of long term job security, you can't blame employees for looking out for their own interests and doing whatever it takes to maximize their earning potential. In fact, it's stupid to do otherwise. In many companies the only way to get a significant wage increase is via a promotion, and in many cases the company org structure makes that difficult or impossible for many, regardless of their talent or performance. In these cases the only alternative is to move to another company.


     

    Trust me I am on my 5th company and at all my companies I was successfully at negotiate raises and job changes. At my current company I am on the 3 opportunity in 7 yrs . The only reason I changed companies was because the economy was changing and I did not want to stick around to turn out the lights on a company or industry. I know all too well you need to look out for number one. However my point was and I still believe these people are job jumps, they jump jobs since they know they are going no where fast in the the company they are at. I know for a fact that if you have the skills and knowledge and know how to make yourself valuable your company will keep you around and give you better jobs and pay you what you are really worth. I will also tell you I have gone through two different down turns in the economy at 2 different companies I weather multiply quarters of people being left go. Even in these bad economies I negotiate pay raises, bonuses and other benefits, and I watch those who job jump for titles and pays sitting on the side line for a long time looking for an opportunities in the bad time. I see their resumes showing up all the time.

     

    I also hire a significant number of people in my career and I see these people who come in thinking they are worth far more than they are, they can not explain all the changes in their jobs except for a title change. I find it interesting when a person is an engineer and they show they work at company A as a design engineer and then go to company B 2 yrs later and they are now a senior engineer and then 2 or 3 yrs later they are principle engineer at Company C. Really in 5 or 6 yrs you go from an entry level position to so Subject Matter Expert and the 3 jobs had little or nothing in common.

     

    The problem in the Valley right now is there are more jobs than people who can do them so that will drive up salaries, this also create bad hiring behaviors, which is companies are desperate to find someone and here comes the job jumper who is only interesting in title change and more money but do not have the skills to back it up. I personally seen it multiply times in companies I worked for, they hire people only to regret doing so shortly thereafter, but you not going to let them go since they are a warm body and you need help.

     

    If you really think you worth more, the real test is when the economy goes south companies get rid of those who they feel are over paid for the value they bring to the table.

     

    I said this before, I have not seen any information present where any company said not to interview or hire someone from another company they openly applied for publicly posted job. I have seen they agree not to actively recruiter each other employees. I believe these people think that if that agreement was not in place then Apple or Google may have called them asking them to come work for them. Well you first have to be in the market for a job, and someone doing some snooping around asking if your interest is not say your actively in the market. I get head hunters calls all the time, most time for jobs I would never consider or I know my knowledge or skills are not a match, I get the call since they are looking for a referral to someone else I may know. 

     

    You know we all like being wanted, and being wants help your position in negotiating a good pay.

  • Reply 35 of 50
    pubbypubby Posts: 6member

    I am neither jealous nor rich, on both counts you are wrong and who are you just a Tallest troll on this forum. First read the mails between Steve Jobs and Eric Schmidt,read the full case and then come here and comment.  A poor recruiter was fired for what?  

     

    When you have some rational statement i would like to discuss with you if not you can whine about your pathetic life.  Just because i am a fan or like a person doesn't mean i support every wrong doing by that person.  

  • Reply 36 of 50
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    In the past there was the Age of Enlightenment. We're living in the Age of Entitlement.

    Truer words have never been spoken.
  • Reply 37 of 50
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    To quote posts, do not use the “Reply” button, as it does nothing. Use the “Quote” button.

     

    Originally Posted by Pubby View Post

    I am neither jealous nor rich

     

    Never said you were either.


    First read the mails between Steve Jobs and Eric Schmidt, read the full case and then come here and comment.

     

    Okay. No. How about answering my questions instead?

     

    When you have some rational statement i would like to discuss with you if not you can whine about your pathetic life.  Just because i am a fan or like a person doesn't mean i support every wrong doing by that person.  


     

    Good for you. Stick to the topic.

  • Reply 38 of 50
    waterrocketswaterrockets Posts: 1,231member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Absolutely. Toss that one in the perhaps unenforceable bin. As for your use of a physical gesture for an abstract idea I don't know why you think that would make it less abstract.

     

    Yeah, the whole idea of a "locked" phone is abstract and non-physical.

  • Reply 39 of 50
    pubbypubby Posts: 6member

    I have to disagree with you on parts of your notes "I know for a fact that if you have the skills and knowledge and know how to make yourself valuable your company will keep you around and give you better jobs and pay you what you are really worth." 

     

    Not sure where all you worked but Employers are not fair with employees all the time. In my previous companies i have seen people getting promoted /hired not based on their skills but rather based on "Who knows Who", people who suck up to their managers got promoted. Like you even i have been in the industry for a while and even i know how things work. You cannot say someone is not worth of something, as they can say the same about you.  

     

    Don't say as if you know all the 7 billion population and you can assess their worthiness.  Why can't a engineer become an architect in 4-5 years? or subject matter expertise? Just because you have not seen them or you think its preposterous doesn't mean you are right and others are wrong. You can change jobs because you don't want to turn on/off lights and others can't?  

     

    Feels like you belong to the HR department in one of these companies who drinks the coolaid that they are fair with everyone. 

     

     

  • Reply 40 of 50
    pubbypubby Posts: 6member



    If you have not read the full file on case and emails between the corporations then whats the use of answering you or anyone.  

    I appreciate you read the case and i will answer you everything you want. 

     

    "Well its given that the justice is made by the rich for the rich period."  proof-  read the recent settlement between JP Morgan and Fed. 

    and now BOFA and Fed. This morning i saw in news that four people were found not guilty based on their DNA. However they spent 20 years in prison. Did this happen to any one on Goldman Sachs? Lehman Brothers? Washington Mutual? 

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