This is what happens when you don't release new products. I agree that the decline may turn around, and it may even be a good strategic move for Apple to keep from saturating the market, by instead focusing on big-bang style launches vs less exciting incremental releases.
But effective or not as a marketing strategy, these interim periods are miserably dull, and the these earning reports show it.
Now, what may be happening is that the gains from the last few years with new users are holding on to their existing machines longer (as mac users tend to do) so we're now re-stabalizing.
Guilty as charged. I have four Macs, the newest of which is a 2006 iMac. I run Logic 9 on my G5, and my first gen Mini is hooked up to the TV. Yeah, time to upgrade
I strongly doubt that. Any business worth its IT department, advisor, consultant or in-house semi-geek knows the even rule: Microsoft does bad odd-number OSes, and worse even-number OSes. So tmo, it's "Windows 7/9 will be 'good enough'", rather than 8.
And absolutely nobody in any of those professions worth a grain of salt as an employee is going to base future decisions on that not entirely accurate fallacy. What will determine, in the future, whether businesses upgrade from whatever they're jumping to will be whether existing machines can handle the new operating system, whether existing software can handle the new operating system, and ultimately, whatever costs and benefits are associated with that upgrade.
Not sure if I understand the data. Is Apple getting dinged by not counting iPads as PCs while Windows 8 tablet form factor PCs do get counted as PCs?
The bottom line is that no matter what these self appointed geniuses and stats monkeys spew it only comes down to one measure: at the end of the quarter who's crating the biggest load of cash over to their banker.
These guys are just turd polishers if they're not letting the financials speak for themselves.
Price has never really been a factor for Apple, even in 2007-2008 when the economy was in the crapper for everyone, Apple was still selling record amounts of Macs and all Apple products in general.
With due respect, what happened in 2007 is irrelevant. What's happening NOW is that sales are declining. They are NOT selling "record numbers." They are selling less than they did last year, and are experiencing decline while other computer makers are seeing growth.
To those who think the declines may be due to hold-outs waiting for updates, how many "typical" Apple buyers do you think even KNOW what kind of CPU (or RAM or storage bus) is in their computer? I'd guess "not many." That means there's some other reason that fewer people are buying Macs while MORE are buying PCs. I think that reason is price.
With due respect, what happened in 2007 is irrelevant. What's happening NOW is that sales are declining. They are NOT selling "record numbers." They are selling less than they did last year, and are experiencing decline while other computer makers are seeing growth.
To those who think the declines may be due to hold-outs waiting for updates, how many "typical" Apple buyers do you think even KNOW what kind of CPU (or RAM or storage bus) is in their computer? I'd guess "not many." That means there's some other reason that fewer people are buying Macs while MORE are buying PCs. I think that reason is price.
Its only irrelevant because it invalidates your piss-poor argument that Macs are too expensive. First of al, we don't know for a fact that sales are declining. This company that is typically WRONG is estimating Apple is losing sales and neglects to add in iPads as computer sales when they did for every other manufacturer in the list. That being said, maybe they are, but on the flip side, they're not losing customers. If they're simply not upgrading, then they're purchasing iPads instead which is where the future is going. We all know that. There isn't going to be this magical day where everyone decides to go back to computers again.
The price of Apple's products is the same as its always been. Its not like people are just saying Macs are too expensive. I'd like to see some proof there. Show me an article, or survey that shows people aren't buying Macs because they're too expensive.
Its more like you're just pissing and moaning because you don't want to spend the money to buy a new Mac because YOU perceive them to be too expensive.
Bottom line, the Mac isn't going away and its very silly to think it is any time soon. While were heading for tablets and other mobile products in the future, there's still plenty of reasons to get a computer today. Until the day comes when these mobile devices fully replace the need for consumers to not buy them at all people will always purchase computers.
One of reasons why Apple isn't on a constant massive upgrade cycle is that they control both the hardware and the software. Apple can continue to add value through software that doesn't require you to purchase a new hardware unit.
Too many PC users have been scarred for life by the WIntel duopoly. It was not a coincidence that Windows continued to get ginormous, slow, and bloated over its lifetime. This was by design and intended to preserve the partnership between Microsoft and (mostly) Intel. Microsoft created a constant necessity to upgrade and keep the cycle going. It's not like they even tried to keep Windows efficient. This burned them when they tried to move to new platforms and ended up resorting to a spastic and fractured OS portfolio with stuff like Windows CE, Windows Handheld Edition, a couple versions of Windows Embedded, two generations of phone operating systems, Windows 95 and NT at the same time, and our favorite pretty schizophrenic OS Windows 8 in two versions. I won't even get into the Alpha chip versions of Windows. That's a huge dogs breakfast of OS kibbles and bits and they are not done yet! No wonder the hardware vendors had a field day with that target rich environment.
Apple is much more sensitive to hardware-software coupling which is why you can still use 5+ year old Macs productively. The convergence around OSX and iOS which is a derivative of OSX is one of the crowning achievements of Apple and a main reason why Macs retain their value for so long. This software move by Apple was pure genius and I have no doubt that Bill G feels exactly the same way since he was totally blown away by how quickly Apple ported OSX to x86.
Is this corporate purchases beginning to pick up? I struggle to think why people would by a Windows machine for personal use in this day and age. Granted, I am biased and live in an Apple dominated computer world. I know very few people that use PC's. It used to be very different.
When Apple brings out its IOS driven clamshell Air, life will change forever, once again. Believe it.
Count me as one of those people that have not bought a replacement iMac (mine's a late 2009) until I see the next refresh.
Lots of people are waiting on Apple to do a decent upgrade to all of its Mac products. here are a few things Apple has done that are worthless:
1. made the iMac thinner
2. made the iMac next to impossible to upgrade.
3. ignored the Mini and the fantastic potential the latest chips could have on that platform.
4. updated the AIR and didn't bother to update the SSD to higher capacity devices at each price point. This actually boggles the mind.
5. left the line up in limbo with some platforms supporting TB fully and others not.
6. ignored competing i86 hardware that would have been a good fit in the Mini.
7. ignored the display market.
I think next year @ TSMC 16nm will be the time to switch over to their own CPU.
By doing so Apple could cut their price by at least $150 without affecting profit margin. And actually earn a lot more in the higher end since CPU / GPU cost could remain the same.
With the help of Windows 8, iPad and iPhone Apps Ecosystem, as well as serious gaming on consoles and casual gaming on iOS devices, there is less and less reason to stick with x86.
Thats my point. "Marketshare" is almost irrelevant in the PC space, because Macs are not even competing in the price bracket of 80% of PCs out there. The VAST majority of PC sales are sub $1000 machines, which Apple does not play in- so making the marketshare comparison is brain-dead. Also, Apple is shipping SO many more iOS devices per year, which obviously are cannibalizing Mac sales, especially iPads.
Please mind the context which is Microsoft Windows computer manufacturers have had declining sales for years while Apple's sales were growing continuously for many years. Microsoft Windows computer manufacturers need many years of growth to regain their market positions prior to 2005.
I do. Apple has been known to drop stuff that isn't profitable enough, i.e. even though it makes money, it doesn't make ENOUGH money. If the Mac continues to slide, it won't be long before Tim says "screw it" and focusses the company's attention on just being the preeminent mobile manufacturer. I don't wanna go back to using Windows.
Yeah, Tim signed off on yearly OSX updates just like iOS, and the last WWDC showed that they're putting a shitload of effort into OSX improvements and new features, which clearly means that they're on the way to completely dropping the platform, right? If anything, the Mac has gotten much MORE attention lately, not less.
Also, do you know WHY iOS devices are so popular? Apps. Do you know what platform the vast majority of these apps are developed on (especially the high quality ones)? Macs. There's your #1 reason why the Mac isn't going anywhere. And that's not even dwelving into the fact that Macs are so prominent and popular in the professional creative market, content creation, video editing, music creating, art, education, etc. Macs don't need to approach the popularity and profit of iOS devices in order for their existence to be justified and necessary. People have been concern-trolling the disappearance of the Mac since the iPhone was unveiled in 2007. It's not closer to happening now then it did back then, that much should be obvious. All the attention they put in the 30th anniversary stuff is not something they would do to a platform they plan on obsoleting.
Apple definitely cares about units and marketshare. They can only continue to invest in MacOS if they can amortize the cost across a large number of units. In other words, Mac sales fund MacOS development. I think Apple has done a good job, with the MacBook Air (display resolution notwithstanding) they need to get much more aggressive with other models. While PC's are no longer a growth market they still generate a ton of revenue and fair amount of margin for the top vendors.
Lots of people are waiting on Apple to do a decent upgrade to all of its Mac products. here are a few things Apple has done that are worthless:
1. made the iMac thinner
2. made the iMac next to impossible to upgrade.
3. ignored the Mini and the fantastic potential the latest chips could have on that platform.
4. updated the AIR and didn't bother to update the SSD to higher capacity devices at each price point. This actually boggles the mind.
5. left the line up in limbo with some platforms supporting TB fully and others not.
6. ignored competing i86 hardware that would have been a good fit in the Mini.
7. ignored the display market.
1. I love the thin design. I like that Apple cares about appearance, as well as what goes inside. I have zero problem with it. In addition, it's lighter, uses less resources, and on the logistics level, saving weight, packaging, etc. means less fuel burned shipping that stuff everywhere in the world.
2. Most people will never upgrade their iMac once it's on their desk. That's the reality. The 27" iMac can upgrade memory easily. Everything else (including memory on the smaller iMac) can be done by spending the extra 10 minutes opening the front and most likely, never open the unit again. It's a non-issue. I did it on my iMac a year ago. It is totally doable with patience. From start-to-finish, I upgraded the SSD on my 2009 iMac in 30 minutes. Done.
3. I agree on the Mini. I contemplated getting one for the office so I don't have to carry my laptop anymore. Why Apple is not doing anything with it is beyond me, and I'm not going to buy what I consider to be a product with "obsolete" hardware. What a shame.
4. The AIR has 512GB SSD PCIe drives that are wickedly fast. That's a lot of space for most people that the AIR caters to. What size are you hoping for? SSD prices when they go above that size really start getting pricey.
5. I'm bummed that they haven't upgraded everything to TB 2.0. I wonder if they are keeping that exclusive to the Mac Pro. That's the other reason I wait for the next iMac refresh.
6. The mini is definitely rotting on the vine. I hope they do something soon on it. I would still consider getting one if they do.
7. I think Apple has the most nicest displays on the market. I suspect they are trying to get a 4K display put together that's worthy of the Apple brand. The new iMac screens are gorgeous. Having Retina on such a huge display is not a deal-breaker for me. Macbook Air would be nice to have.
Who cares? The Mac has never been in a marketshare war and never will be. In terms of bottom line, it's almost irrelevant. I expect Macs will get a boost once hardware and software is updated this fall, not to mention the increased halo effect from the better synergy between iOS8 and Yosemite.
LOL you have an answer for everything that goes against Apple.
Apple blew it on the TV. I'm a proud owner of a new 49" 4K Sony TV as of July 3rd and am loving it.
And the Surface seems very appealing. I would never buy or recommend a Samsung/Google product but I could certainly recommend a Surface to anyone who refuses to buy Apple.
Apple also hasn't been advertising the Mac much in the last couple of years. The Mac vs. PC ads, which were incredibly effective, have been gone for a few years. With those hundreds of billions, you'd think Apple could spare some change for a decent Mac campaign.
Comments
This is what happens when you don't release new products. I agree that the decline may turn around, and it may even be a good strategic move for Apple to keep from saturating the market, by instead focusing on big-bang style launches vs less exciting incremental releases.
But effective or not as a marketing strategy, these interim periods are miserably dull, and the these earning reports show it.
The bottom line is that no matter what these self appointed geniuses and stats monkeys spew it only comes down to one measure: at the end of the quarter who's crating the biggest load of cash over to their banker.
These guys are just turd polishers if they're not letting the financials speak for themselves.
Price has never really been a factor for Apple, even in 2007-2008 when the economy was in the crapper for everyone, Apple was still selling record amounts of Macs and all Apple products in general.
With due respect, what happened in 2007 is irrelevant. What's happening NOW is that sales are declining. They are NOT selling "record numbers." They are selling less than they did last year, and are experiencing decline while other computer makers are seeing growth.
To those who think the declines may be due to hold-outs waiting for updates, how many "typical" Apple buyers do you think even KNOW what kind of CPU (or RAM or storage bus) is in their computer? I'd guess "not many." That means there's some other reason that fewer people are buying Macs while MORE are buying PCs. I think that reason is price.
With due respect, what happened in 2007 is irrelevant. What's happening NOW is that sales are declining. They are NOT selling "record numbers." They are selling less than they did last year, and are experiencing decline while other computer makers are seeing growth.
To those who think the declines may be due to hold-outs waiting for updates, how many "typical" Apple buyers do you think even KNOW what kind of CPU (or RAM or storage bus) is in their computer? I'd guess "not many." That means there's some other reason that fewer people are buying Macs while MORE are buying PCs. I think that reason is price.
Its only irrelevant because it invalidates your piss-poor argument that Macs are too expensive. First of al, we don't know for a fact that sales are declining. This company that is typically WRONG is estimating Apple is losing sales and neglects to add in iPads as computer sales when they did for every other manufacturer in the list. That being said, maybe they are, but on the flip side, they're not losing customers. If they're simply not upgrading, then they're purchasing iPads instead which is where the future is going. We all know that. There isn't going to be this magical day where everyone decides to go back to computers again.
The price of Apple's products is the same as its always been. Its not like people are just saying Macs are too expensive. I'd like to see some proof there. Show me an article, or survey that shows people aren't buying Macs because they're too expensive.
Its more like you're just pissing and moaning because you don't want to spend the money to buy a new Mac because YOU perceive them to be too expensive.
Bottom line, the Mac isn't going away and its very silly to think it is any time soon. While were heading for tablets and other mobile products in the future, there's still plenty of reasons to get a computer today. Until the day comes when these mobile devices fully replace the need for consumers to not buy them at all people will always purchase computers.
Too many PC users have been scarred for life by the WIntel duopoly. It was not a coincidence that Windows continued to get ginormous, slow, and bloated over its lifetime. This was by design and intended to preserve the partnership between Microsoft and (mostly) Intel. Microsoft created a constant necessity to upgrade and keep the cycle going. It's not like they even tried to keep Windows efficient. This burned them when they tried to move to new platforms and ended up resorting to a spastic and fractured OS portfolio with stuff like Windows CE, Windows Handheld Edition, a couple versions of Windows Embedded, two generations of phone operating systems, Windows 95 and NT at the same time, and our favorite pretty schizophrenic OS Windows 8 in two versions. I won't even get into the Alpha chip versions of Windows. That's a huge dogs breakfast of OS kibbles and bits and they are not done yet! No wonder the hardware vendors had a field day with that target rich environment.
Apple is much more sensitive to hardware-software coupling which is why you can still use 5+ year old Macs productively. The convergence around OSX and iOS which is a derivative of OSX is one of the crowning achievements of Apple and a main reason why Macs retain their value for so long. This software move by Apple was pure genius and I have no doubt that Bill G feels exactly the same way since he was totally blown away by how quickly Apple ported OSX to x86.
Is this corporate purchases beginning to pick up? I struggle to think why people would by a Windows machine for personal use in this day and age. Granted, I am biased and live in an Apple dominated computer world. I know very few people that use PC's. It used to be very different.
When Apple brings out its IOS driven clamshell Air, life will change forever, once again. Believe it.
... and BINGO was his name-oh
Lots of people are waiting on Apple to do a decent upgrade to all of its Mac products. here are a few things Apple has done that are worthless:
1. made the iMac thinner
2. made the iMac next to impossible to upgrade.
3. ignored the Mini and the fantastic potential the latest chips could have on that platform.
4. updated the AIR and didn't bother to update the SSD to higher capacity devices at each price point. This actually boggles the mind.
5. left the line up in limbo with some platforms supporting TB fully and others not.
6. ignored competing i86 hardware that would have been a good fit in the Mini.
7. ignored the display market.
I think next year @ TSMC 16nm will be the time to switch over to their own CPU.
By doing so Apple could cut their price by at least $150 without affecting profit margin. And actually earn a lot more in the higher end since CPU / GPU cost could remain the same.
With the help of Windows 8, iPad and iPhone Apps Ecosystem, as well as serious gaming on consoles and casual gaming on iOS devices, there is less and less reason to stick with x86.
Still, Apple makes 35% to 45% of all profits in the PC industry, depending on who you read.
Not bad for a single company with only 5 PC lines.
(Mac mini, iMac, Mac Pro, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, in case anyone needed a refresher.)
Sources:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/192273/article.html
http://fortune.com/2013/04/16/pie-chart-of-the-day-apples-oversize-share-of-pc-profits/
http://www.infoworld.com/t/macbooks/pcs-decline-its-apple-thats-making-real-money-pcs-216573
Thats my point. "Marketshare" is almost irrelevant in the PC space, because Macs are not even competing in the price bracket of 80% of PCs out there. The VAST majority of PC sales are sub $1000 machines, which Apple does not play in- so making the marketshare comparison is brain-dead. Also, Apple is shipping SO many more iOS devices per year, which obviously are cannibalizing Mac sales, especially iPads.
I do. Apple has been known to drop stuff that isn't profitable enough, i.e. even though it makes money, it doesn't make ENOUGH money. If the Mac continues to slide, it won't be long before Tim says "screw it" and focusses the company's attention on just being the preeminent mobile manufacturer. I don't wanna go back to using Windows.
Yeah, Tim signed off on yearly OSX updates just like iOS, and the last WWDC showed that they're putting a shitload of effort into OSX improvements and new features, which clearly means that they're on the way to completely dropping the platform, right? If anything, the Mac has gotten much MORE attention lately, not less.
Also, do you know WHY iOS devices are so popular? Apps. Do you know what platform the vast majority of these apps are developed on (especially the high quality ones)? Macs. There's your #1 reason why the Mac isn't going anywhere. And that's not even dwelving into the fact that Macs are so prominent and popular in the professional creative market, content creation, video editing, music creating, art, education, etc. Macs don't need to approach the popularity and profit of iOS devices in order for their existence to be justified and necessary. People have been concern-trolling the disappearance of the Mac since the iPhone was unveiled in 2007. It's not closer to happening now then it did back then, that much should be obvious. All the attention they put in the 30th anniversary stuff is not something they would do to a platform they plan on obsoleting.
Lots of people are waiting on Apple to do a decent upgrade to all of its Mac products. here are a few things Apple has done that are worthless:
1. made the iMac thinner
2. made the iMac next to impossible to upgrade.
3. ignored the Mini and the fantastic potential the latest chips could have on that platform.
4. updated the AIR and didn't bother to update the SSD to higher capacity devices at each price point. This actually boggles the mind.
5. left the line up in limbo with some platforms supporting TB fully and others not.
6. ignored competing i86 hardware that would have been a good fit in the Mini.
7. ignored the display market.
1. I love the thin design. I like that Apple cares about appearance, as well as what goes inside. I have zero problem with it. In addition, it's lighter, uses less resources, and on the logistics level, saving weight, packaging, etc. means less fuel burned shipping that stuff everywhere in the world.
2. Most people will never upgrade their iMac once it's on their desk. That's the reality. The 27" iMac can upgrade memory easily. Everything else (including memory on the smaller iMac) can be done by spending the extra 10 minutes opening the front and most likely, never open the unit again. It's a non-issue. I did it on my iMac a year ago. It is totally doable with patience. From start-to-finish, I upgraded the SSD on my 2009 iMac in 30 minutes. Done.
3. I agree on the Mini. I contemplated getting one for the office so I don't have to carry my laptop anymore. Why Apple is not doing anything with it is beyond me, and I'm not going to buy what I consider to be a product with "obsolete" hardware. What a shame.
4. The AIR has 512GB SSD PCIe drives that are wickedly fast. That's a lot of space for most people that the AIR caters to. What size are you hoping for? SSD prices when they go above that size really start getting pricey.
5. I'm bummed that they haven't upgraded everything to TB 2.0. I wonder if they are keeping that exclusive to the Mac Pro. That's the other reason I wait for the next iMac refresh.
6. The mini is definitely rotting on the vine. I hope they do something soon on it. I would still consider getting one if they do.
7. I think Apple has the most nicest displays on the market. I suspect they are trying to get a 4K display put together that's worthy of the Apple brand. The new iMac screens are gorgeous. Having Retina on such a huge display is not a deal-breaker for me. Macbook Air would be nice to have.
Who cares? The Mac has never been in a marketshare war and never will be. In terms of bottom line, it's almost irrelevant. I expect Macs will get a boost once hardware and software is updated this fall, not to mention the increased halo effect from the better synergy between iOS8 and Yosemite.
LOL you have an answer for everything that goes against Apple.
Apple blew it on the TV. I'm a proud owner of a new 49" 4K Sony TV as of July 3rd and am loving it.
And the Surface seems very appealing. I would never buy or recommend a Samsung/Google product but I could certainly recommend a Surface to anyone who refuses to buy Apple.
Lots of people are waiting on Apple to do a decent upgrade to all of its Mac products. here are a few things Apple has done that are worthless:
1. made the iMac thinner
2. made the iMac next to impossible to upgrade.
3. ignored the Mini and the fantastic potential the latest chips could have on that platform.
4. updated the AIR and didn't bother to update the SSD to higher capacity devices at each price point. This actually boggles the mind.
5. left the line up in limbo with some platforms supporting TB fully and others not.
6. ignored competing i86 hardware that would have been a good fit in the Mini.
7. ignored the display market.
Totally agree. I have a 2013 iMac and cannot believe the screen uses 5 year old technology.
The 2013 iMac is using technology from 2008? Shut the **** up!