With most major companies already using iOS, Piper Jaffray doesn't see IBM deal surging Apple sales

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  • Reply 81 of 97
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,882member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    I would rather see Forstall be CEO than make any deal with IBM. And I dislike Forstall probably more than anyone.

     

    IBM is a nobody. They should have to shelp their stuff through the App Store like everybody else.


     

    Okay, there.  Well, at least we know now that it's some deep seated personal animus against IBM that's driving your side of the discussion.  Can't argue against deep seated personal animus.  Here doth endeth the debate.

  • Reply 82 of 97
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,393member
    mstone wrote: »
    Only a fucking idiot would try to argue that you don't need a mouse to do graphic design. That is if you were defining graphic design as professional artwork composed in Adobe CC. Perhaps you have some other definition. I wouldn't know anything about that.

    Now you definitely sound like trackball director.

    You NEED whatever tools get the job done. I see people as old as when I was first learning these things with desktops and mice now working in Maya and FCP and Illustrator in cafés on their MBP's trackpads.

    However, this thread has more to do with everyday office workers who do not work in design. They do email and maybe spreadsheets or PowerPoint (shudder) and are potentially about to move a lot of that to an iPad running apple and IBM apps. Without a mouse. Or possibly a keyboard.

    Hell, many of my clients can barely manage to communicate clearly or design anything with those tools, so what's the problem?

    But what do I know, I'm only a fucking idiot.

    Also though, Forstall? Did you see the look on his face for the animated card shredder demo in Passbook? There's a reason he's gone. Apple had gone SO much further with iOS since. Wait, are you Scott?
  • Reply 83 of 97
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post

     
    Quote:


    You NEED whatever tools get the job done. I see people as old as when I was first learning these things with desktops and mice now working in Maya and FCP and Illustrator in cafés on their MBP's trackpads.



    No way. The  nodes in Maya and Illustrator are less than a mm and your finger is like 20 mm. How the hell are you going to grab on to a Bezier curve with with a fat finger? Downgrading everything to big giant buttons so a seven year old can touch them without difficulty is not progress.

  • Reply 84 of 97
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,393member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    No way. The  nodes in Maya and Illustrator are less than a mm and your finger is like 20 mm. How the hell are you going to grab on to a Bezier curve with with a fat finger? Downgrading everything to big giant buttons so a seven year old can touch them without difficulty is not progress.


     

    Zoom? I edited a bezier on a trackpad just yesterday. Woo hoo. I'm not sure why you're still going down this rabbit hole. Again, this has nothing to do with designers and their chosen input devices. If I can find my Bamboo pen, maybe I would've used that to edit it. Who cares?

  • Reply 85 of 97
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post

     
    Zoom? I edited a bezier on a trackpad just yesterday. Woo hoo. I'm not sure why you're still going down this rabbit hole. Again, this has nothing to do with designers and their chosen input devices. If I can find my Bamboo pen, maybe I would've used that to edit it. Who cares?


    Lame. There is a reason your designers are working in a cafe. Probably they don't have any real paying jobs. While they are zooming with a track pad to struggle with their beziers, my designers have their own offices, reserved parking, receptionists, paid vacation, health plan, 401K,  30" monitors... all because they use a mouse. Well that and because we've been in business for more than 20 years and have many international clients. And that is only one of our businesses. We also own a cafe, probably where your lame designers hang out using our wifi. Plus a few other businesses such as a coffee farm and a an export company, all of which use a mouse. In addition I am also a vice president at a global medical company which by the way is very mouse centric as well. It is cool that you don't use a mouse but just so you know, it really pays a lot more money when you do.

  • Reply 86 of 97
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,393member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    Lame. There is a reason your designers are working in a cafe. Probably they don't have any real paying jobs. While they are zooming with a track pad to struggle with their beziers, my designers have their own offices, reserved parking, receptionists, paid vacation, health plan, 401K,  30" monitors... all because they use a mouse. Well that and because we've been in business for more than 20 years and have many international clients. And that is only one of our businesses. We also own a cafe, probably where your lame designers hang out using our wifi. Plus a few other businesses such as a coffee farm and a an export company, all of which use a mouse. It is cool that you don't use a mouse but just so you know, it really pays a lot more money when you do.


     

    I am not talking about my designers, I'm talking about seeing people working differently with and/or adapting to new technology. You seem unable to see beyond what you are used to in your own environment. You are still ignoring the fact this article has nothing to do with you or designers' workflow. This is NOT aimed at your workflow. NOT. 

     

    I'm happy for your company, it sounds like it's doing very well. Sorry you're so angry about something that does not affect you in any possible way. IBM is not going to come in and make you edit beziers with an iPad. Relax.

  • Reply 87 of 97
    tenlytenly Posts: 710member
    Forget about the additional hardware sales for a minute. Enterprise Software is expensive! With IBM having 100+ new Enterprise Apps available, and if Apple is taking their customary 30% cut on every copy sold, those numbers could be huge! (I'm not going to do the math - but I'd be very interested in seeing somebody else's calculations on what this number could actually be!)
  • Reply 88 of 97
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post

     
    You seem unable to see beyond what you are used to in your own environment. 


    You seem to forget that you initially attacked me.



    "The fact that you have to use a mouse with your MBP to get work done says a lot. Guessing you still have scrolling reversed or refuse to upgrade from Snow Leopard too?" 

     

    So just defending my position.

  • Reply 89 of 97
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,393member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    You seem to forget that you initially attacked me.



    "The fact that you have to use a mouse with your MBP to get work done says a lot. Guessing you still have scrolling reversed or refuse to upgrade from Snow Leopard too?" 

     

    So just defending my position.


     

    My "attack" was just calling you out for my perceived reason you might be trolling this thread so hard despite having no vested interest in any of this. You said early on you don't use your iPad for anything other than reading, then challenged everyone to come up with a legitimate purpose for using an iPad in a business environment, which nobody actually needs to do because millions of people (except you) do it every day. Over and over you discount the usability for the tools and (not yet seen) software in this story based on your own workflow which does not apply. Again, you are not the target audience for this. It doesn't relate directly to you or how you work, so don't feel weird when it sounds strange to you and move on. Don't take it personally.

  • Reply 90 of 97
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post

     
    You said early on you don't use your iPad for anything other than reading, then challenged everyone to come up with a legitimate purpose for using an iPad in a business environment, which nobody actually needs to do because millions of people (except you) do it every day. 


    True enough. I acknowledged that the iPad is a very useful tool for mobile and if you look at Apple's enterprise usage examples they are ALL outdoor mobile applications. My question was why anyone would want to use an iPad in an office environment when a desktop computer was available and more capable. No one wanted to answer that question. Probably because it is stupid to use an iPad instead of a desktop. There may be some specialized circumstance but I believe it would be a rare instance,

  • Reply 91 of 97
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,393member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    True enough. I acknowledged that the iPad is a very useful tool for mobile and if you look at Apple's enterprise usage examples they are ALL outdoor mobile applications. My question was why anyone would want to use an iPad in an office environment when a desktop computer was available and more capable. No one wanted to answer that question. Probably because it is stupid to use an iPad instead of a desktop. There may be some specialized circumstance but I believe it would be a rare instance,


     

    Because the applications you are thinking of do not apply. To paraphrase someone on this or another thread (sorry, don't remember), "you think Apple and IBM are too stupid to think of this?"  Seriously, these guys are playing 3D chess 15 moves ahead and you're still focused on how you work in your own myopic worldview.

     

    I am just going to leave this here:

    "Don't bet against us," — Tim Cook

     

    ?My main point is this is likely to help everyone (save BBRY maybe) and don't fucking worry about it.

  • Reply 92 of 97
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post

     

     

    I am just going to leave this here:

    "Don't bet against us," — Tim Cook

     


    Sure you are probably right but I don't like the deal and don't like IBM and not too fond of Cook either, I already sold my AAPL a while ago so it is really none of my business, but I am still a little emotionally attached to the old Apple.

  • Reply 93 of 97
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,393member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    Sure you are probably right but I don't like the deal and don't like IBM and not too fond of Cook either, I already sold my AAPL a while ago so it is really none of my business, but I am still a little emotionally attached to the old Apple.


     

    I'm attached to both. I started learning design on an SE/30 then color on a IIsi (QuickTime!).

     

    What is there not to like? Cook is obviously a fucking pro, and they *just* showed a HUGE renewed fervor for OS X which I cannot be more excited about, and who cares about IBM if you don't work for a company serviced by them? 

     

    Reiterating — old Apple was great but nearly dead when I was enjoying my Centris 650 and beige G3 tower, and now we have best in class hardware and a HUGE fucking opportunity to ... wait what are you wanting from the old Apple exactly?

  • Reply 94 of 97
    iaeeniaeen Posts: 588member
    mstone wrote: »
    True enough. I acknowledged that the iPad is a very useful tool for mobile and if you look at Apple's enterprise usage examples they are ALL outdoor mobile applications. My question was why anyone would want to use an iPad in an office environment when a desktop computer was available and more capable. No one wanted to answer that question. Probably because it is stupid to use an iPad instead of a desktop. There may be some specialized circumstance but I believe it would be a rare instance,

    Who ever said anything about the office? Modern professionals do work on the morning commute, at the airport, and everywhere in between.

    Obviously you would use a desktop when it is more convenient, but to say that it will always be convenient and available is nuts. Every argument you give applies to laptops too (they are certainly less capable than desktops), but nobody in their right mind would claim that they aren't useful in business.
  • Reply 95 of 97
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    mstone wrote: »
    Sure you are probably right but I don't like the deal and don't like IBM and not too fond of Cook either, I already sold my AAPL a while ago so it is really none of my business, but I am still a little emotionally attached to the old Apple.

    Because you don't understand it, you don't like it.

    Cook has done a great job. Not sure why you can't see that. Let me guess: no new product lines?
  • Reply 96 of 97
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    That could work but the discussion started with traveling and MBP.  I have a Wacom in my studio but I don't take it on the road.


    That makes sense. They're annoying to transport, and the cords are easily messed up. I have an old 9x12 intuos3 around with electrical tape wrapped around the usb cable at a couple stress points. It looks really ghetto, but I'll replace it at some point.

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