Microsoft says Surface Pro 3 more powerful, flexible than MacBook Air in latest ads

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  • Reply 141 of 288
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

    One in three people in Switzerland download unauthorized music, movies and games from the Internet and since last year the government has been wondering what to do about it. This week their response was published and it was crystal clear. Not only will downloading for personal use stay completely legal, but the copyright holders won't suffer because of it, since people eventually spend the money saved on entertainment products.



    Sounds like the world’s least logical conclusion to me.

  • Reply 142 of 288
    indyfxindyfx Posts: 320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     



    Sounds like the world’s least logical conclusion to me.


     

    Yep that and the "they make too much money, they don't need or deserve any more" rationalization are likely the #1 and #2 justifications for stealing copyrighted works.

     

    I'll tell you what Relic, you can talk about actors singers directors and producers making a lot of money, and some do. But their talent is one in a million (perhaps end one in ten or a hundred million) and that kind if single tall end tends to be rewarded well (when it is a desired skill (i.e. footballers or roundballers) However understand, 90% (or better) of the production costs of a work goes into production, paying the hundreds who toil and provide services to those who produce behind the scenes.

     

    You are a thief (apparently condoned by a morally bankrupt government) and you are stealing the money I use to feed and put a roof over the heads of my children. I see you as no better than a common thief who breaks into peoples houses or business and takes things. Perhaps even beneath them, because they know they are thieves and at least don't have a smug and entitled attitude about it.

  • Reply 143 of 288
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    indyfx wrote: »
    Yep that and the "they make too much money, they don't need or deserve any more" rationalization are likely the #1 and #2 justifications for stealing copyrighted works.

    I'll tell you what Relic, you can talk about actors singers directors and producers making a lot of money, and some do. But their talent is one in a million (perhaps end one in ten or a hundred million) and that kind if single tall end tends to be rewarded well (when it is a desired skill (i.e. footballers or roundballers) However understand, <span style="line-height:1.4em;">90% (or better) of the production costs of a work goes into production, paying the hundreds who toil and provide services to </span>
    those<span style="line-height:1.4em;"> who produce behind the scenes.</span>


    You are a thief (apparently condoned by a morally bankrupt government) and you are stealing the money I use to feed and put a roof over the heads of my children. I see you as no better than a common thief who breaks into peoples houses or business and takes things. Perhaps even beneath them, because they know they are thieves and at least don't have a smug and entitled attitude about it.

    I'm not or have ever been a thief, if you read my post I clearly stated that all of our movies are ripped from DVD's and BlueRay's. I simply moved the media that I paid for from one medium to another. So next time you decide to go after someone with this holier than thou attitude it might be a good idea too actually read and comprehended what the person wrote. Do you really think I would be so glib about pirating movies. I've discussed this before in greater detail how I made a DVD ripping rig to transfer all of our families massive movie collection over to an all digital format so we could stream them to our tablet and phones. But you would probably know this if you were a member for more then a minute, instead you assumed that I was some sort of delinquent pirate, shame on you. Why don't you get to know a little more before you try to assassinate our characters.
  • Reply 144 of 288
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,301member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    I'm not or have never been a thief, if you read my post I clearly stated that all of our movies are ripped from DVD's and BlueRay's. I simply moved the media that I paid for from one medium to another. So next time you decide to go after someone with this holeyer then now attitude it might be a good idea too actually read and comprehended what the person wrote. Do you really think I would be so glib about pirating movies. I've discussed this before in greater detail how I made a DVD ripping rig to transfer all of our families massive movie collection over to an all digital format so we could stream them to our tablet and phones.

     

    Actually, ripped Blu-Ray discs are in violation of existing copyrights. You are technically breaking the law. It's my understanding that personal backups of DVDs are treated differently by the law.

  • Reply 145 of 288
    indyfxindyfx Posts: 320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post





    I am and have never been a thief, if you read my post I clearly stated that all of our movies are rippped from DVD's and BlueRay's that we paid for. I simply moved the media that I paid for from one medium to another. So next time you decide to go after someone with a this holeyer then now attitude it might be a good idea too actually read and comprehended what the person wrote. Do you really think I would be so glib about pirating movies. I've discussed this before in greater detail how I made a DVD ripping rig to transfer our families mass collection over to an all digital format.

    Not trying insult you but I'm not sure I buy that backtracking. You quoted (with hubris) that some court in you government determined it it was ok to steal, therefor it is "100% ok" to steal others works.

     

    Listen, i'm glad you saw the error in your ways and hope you do (or already have) put it into practice but to post that nonsense and then come back and try to backpedal is disingenuous at best.

  • Reply 146 of 288
    lowepglowepg Posts: 106member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    The Surface is a compromise product.

     

    Not as light or easy to use as a tablet.

    Not as powerful or easy to type as a laptop.


     

    Respectfully, I recall similar (dead wrong) critiques of the iPad.... please hold your flames till the end....

     

    I've recently moved from the a PC+Mac_iOS world to a Mac+iOS world. I've seen this surface3 and its a decent piece of HARDWARE- certainly the best that MS has built. It may win a bells and whistles bake-off, but it will never hold a candle to the use-ability of a MBP or a iPad.

     

    If MS had released this a couple years ago (before there was a glimmer of hope for MS Office on Ipad) they MIGHT have gotten some traction with corporate users (our company for sure). But its far too late now. Corporate users that were married to MS have had YEARS to figure our work-arounds to start using their beloved i-devices . And, big companies have also responded and found a place for Apple in some previously MS only environments.

     

    Anyways, its a nice try.... if it was released in 2000 if might have had a chance.

  • Reply 147 of 288
    lowepglowepg Posts: 106member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    Check out this bullshit reporting from Consumer Reports and ABC News

     

    http://abc7.com/shopping/back-to-school-shopping-best-laptops-for-all-ages/253494/


    huh?

    for high school students (to take notes!!) they recommend a surface pro ($1000 + $130 cover)

     

    for college students they recommend a 1300 macbook, but then lament its pricey? 

     

    wtf... 1300 is pricey for a laptop, but 1130 is not (for a tablet)?

  • Reply 148 of 288
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     



    Sounds like the world’s least logical conclusion to me.


     

    It's actually not Tallest, first even if my government allowed foreign governing bodies to sue our citizens It wouldn't be worth their time or money to do as they would only be able to get the amount they would have lost in sales, that's it, no emotional damages nonsense, no penalties, so if say 20 movies were found on someones hard drive, the most they would get is around 400 bucks and they would still have to pay for their own legal fees as we don't make the loosing side cover legal expenses here for a suit like this. Switzerland has one of the lowest suing rates in Europe, it just doesn't happen much here, we also cap the max amount of money someone could sue for, most of the time it's only for the amount that was lost.

     

    Our government did extensive studies on this mater and found that even though there were a few that abused the system, people who downloaded from torrent sites actually spent more a year on media content then those who didn't as they were exposed to more . In the end though it was the people and not the government who actually voted against going after content pirates. So you can't call our government morally bankrupt as Mr. I jump to conclusions because I only comprehend the parts that I want to IndyFX. I personally don't condone pirating but I also don't was some foreigner coming in and going after my fellow countrymen either to make a quick buck or try to make some kind of example, we kicked Apple and Samsung to the curb when they tried to sue each other here, so we're defiantly not going to allow the DMCA to go after our citizens. Some of these horror stories I hear of the DMCA suing families for ungodly amounts of money because their teenage son downloaded a few movies is down right disgusting. I'm happy that our voice is not only heard here but has clout as well.

     

    With services like Spotify and Netflix the need to pirate has dropped extensively anyway.

  • Reply 149 of 288
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post

     

    Not trying insult you but I'm not sure I buy that backtracking. You quoted (with hubris) that some court in you government determined it it was ok to steal, therefor it is "100% ok" to steal others works.

     

    Listen, i'm glad you saw the error in your ways and hope you do (or already have) put it into practice but to post that nonsense and then come back and try to backpedal is disingenuous at best.


    Backpedal, what are you talking about, I was replying to SpamSandwich who was suggesting that I watch my back for having movies in my Google Drive. I posted a link to a government study that shows that they don't go after people for such things. I wasn't back pedaling anything.

     

    I teasingly said my family is a bunch of pirates, but it isn't pirating when you own the media that your ripping is it.  Again your jumping to conclusions, the reasons why others didn't scold me is because they have been here for a while and they know me, Again I suggest you get to know us before calling us out on something that you misinterpret or your stay here is going to be very unpleasant.

     

    "My entire family is a bunch of pirates, we have a collective video collection of over a 1,000 movies from ripped DVD's and BlueRay's stored on Google Drive, which is easily streamed through the Nexus 10."  I thought I didn't need to say that those DVD's and BlueRays were ours as it's pretty obvious and I didn't say that they were downloaded from a torrent site. I would have been a lot more cordial and just called the whole situation a misunderstanding but you made it personal by calling me a thief, as a newbie you need to be a little more careful in the future, okay. 

     

  • Reply 150 of 288
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    lowepg wrote: »
    huh?
    for high school students (to take notes!!) they recommend a surface pro ($1000 + $130 cover)

    for college students they recommend a 1300 macbook, but then lament its pricey? 

    wtf... 1300 is pricey for a laptop, but 1130 is not (for a tablet)?

    And once you consider Windows included and commonly purchased SW v Mac OS X that price difference may end up in Apple's favour.
  • Reply 151 of 288
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

     

    huh?

    for high school students (to take notes!!) they recommend a surface pro ($1000 + $130 cover)

     

    for college students they recommend a 1300 macbook, but then lament its pricey? 

     

    wtf... 1300 is pricey for a laptop, but 1130 is not (for a tablet)?


     

    Have you seen one of these for the iPad, cool huh?

     

     

    Oh and the Surface 3 starts at 740.00, just FYI. But for a college student I think Nokia 2520 would be a better fit, comes with Office Pro as well.

     

  • Reply 152 of 288
    lowepglowepg Posts: 106member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

    Oh and the Surface 3 starts at 740.00, just FYI. But for a college student I think Nokia 2520 would be a better fit.

     


     

    I know. But I was referring to the article referenced and they listed the surface price.

     

    However, I wouldn't THINK of running windows software with 4GB of ram... so really, the surface end up being more like $1299 when you equip it properly (8GB of ram model).

  • Reply 153 of 288
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    And once you consider Windows included and commonly purchased SW v Mac OS X that price difference may end up in Apple's favour.

     

    How do you figure, Office for education is only 80 bucks

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

     

     

    I know. But I was referring to the article referenced and they listed the surface price.

     

    However, I wouldn't THINK of running windows software with 4GB of ram... so really, the surface end up being more like $1299 when you equip it properly (8GB of ram model).


     

    4GB is plenty, what exactly do you want to run?

  • Reply 154 of 288
    lowepglowepg Posts: 106member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

     

    How do you figure, Office for education is only 80 bucks

     

    4GB is plenty, what exactly do you want to run?


    4Gb is "plenty"?!?! I'd say "marginal" or "borderline" but certainly not plenty. That's not been my experience. It'd be different if we were talking a system that was user-upgradable. However, with these locked-down devices i would always err on the side of MORE ram since it can never be added later.

     

    My point is, quoting the price for the 4gb unit is really for the stripped-down version... not necessarily relevant.

  • Reply 155 of 288
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

     

    4Gb is "plenty"?!?! I'd say "marginal" or "borderline" but certainly not plenty. That's not been my experience. It'd be different if we were talking a system that was user-upgradable. However, with these locked-down devices i would always err on the side of MORE ram since it can never be added later.

     

    My point is, quoting the price for the 4gb unit is really for the stripped-down version... not necessarily relevant.


     

    Well it really depends on what your plans are for the device. I have the i5, 8GB, 256gb  version of the Surface 3 but I'm using it for Abelton Live, FL Studio and Adobe Creative Cloud Complete Education Edition (I share it with my daughter, which works fine as they allow you to install it on two machines, even with different OS's, I use it on a Windows 8 machine and my daughter uses it on a MacBook Air,  we just can't use it at the same time), by the way their subscription prices aren't as bad as some people make it out to be. I used to upgrade my Photoshop, Premiere, LightRoom and DreamWeaver license, probably once every 3 years, sometimes sooner if the upgrade was significant enough. So when you consider I only pay 720.00 now for those three years with the Education discount (20.00 a month) and we get the entire Adobe software library, it's quite a deal. 

     



    My daughter uses Premier, AfterEffectsAudition CC and Photoshop for her little movies and she's getting quite good and I use Photoshop, LightRoom, Dreamweaver and have been playing around with Edge ReFlow. The reason why I spent a little time talking about Adobe's software is because they run like a dream on the Surface 3, Photoshop is fantastic with a pen. Illustrator is the only program from the entire Adobe library that I had problems with, you really have to use the pen or mouse with it, which is fine as I don't really use the program.

     



    A lot of you keep skipping over the fact that the Surface Pro 3 is a touch device and has an active digitizer. A Wacom Cintiq 13HD cost's nearly 1,000.00, yesthis device is probably more accurate but no BS here guys, when working in a program like Photoshop, the Surface pro 3 is flawless. A MacBook Air simply doesn't have a touchscreen or pen support because if it I would have never bothered with the Surface in the first place, yes, you can add accessories to make the MacBook Air into a decent artist tool by purchasing a Wacom board but that just adds to the costs and again you still won't have the advantages a touchscreen and pen bring to the table. So you can’t really compare the MacBook Air to the Surface Pro 3, their just completely different machines all together. Just FYI, I am in no way saying the MacBook Air isn’t a decent machine because it is, their fantastic and I will always have one in my life. The Surface 3 is just an additional tool to be used with apps that can utilize it's potential.

     



    The Surface Pro 3 is actually a very powerful useful tool and it can be a great companion for those who are seeking it's feature set. A lot of you are correct with the assumption that It probably won't make the best laptop but that doesn’t mean it's useless. There are still a number of great applications that work fantastically with the Surface and could make your workflow a lot more productive. As I mentioned on many occasions I use mine predominantly for Abelton Live, I have a cute little white vivitek QUMI Q5 projector connected via the Display Port, too give me an extra workspace, as Abelton Live has a powerful macro language and allows for custom controls, I can make nice big buttons that are easily activated using the touchscreen, this is so great guys, for example; when I'm in the zone playing on my midi keyboard, I can activate different sounds on the fly, record, stop/start a beat, you name it, so much faster and less intrusive then using a mouse. That's why I love my iPad for music creation more then my MacBook Air. So I rarely have to use my mouse or keyboard anymore, which means I work faster and smarter. This setup is something that I've wanted for a very long time and the Surface Pro 3 made it possible. I will probably replace the little beamer with another touch monitor, I want something that is adjustable to different angles, do any of you have any ideas. All I can do is shop around online right now as I'm not mobile, so if possible I would like some suggestions from people who have actually used the device their recommending.

     



    So wow, I got side tracked their didn’t I. Above is an example of what I'm doing with an i5, 8GB hybrid tablet but what about a Windows 8 tablet that only has 2GB or RAM. Presenting the Nokia 2520, I love this machine, not only is the design cool, has one of the nicest keyboards I have ever used on a tablet. You will be surprised as to how much you can actually do with a tablet that has such modest specs. Qualcomm 800, 2GB RAM, 32GB SSD, 128GB Mini SD, beautiful 1080P display. I know It's easy to down play a Windows 8 tablet because of how incredible the Apple iPad is. But something like the Nokia 2520 still has something to offer for those who can look past their bias attitudes on none Apple products.

     



    Here is a list of some of programs and things I use and dowith my Nokia.

     



    Surfing (This is a biggy for me, the browsers are full featured desktop applications, even the ones on the Metro side, there is also Flash, as a lot of popular web apps still use Flash it's an important feature for me. Lastly, sites like Appleinsider can bring a tablet using a mobile browser to it's knees, not so on the Nokia 2530, there isn’t so much as a hiccup, almost every site runs just as smooth. Not only that but currently I have 25 tabs opened, split screen with a DIVX movie being played on the right, left is MS Word where I am currently typing this and 6 metro apps opened, all running in the background, not paused, running, with absolutely zero lag.) 


    • IE, Desktop Version 


    • IE: Metro Version 


    • UC Browser HD: Metro Version (pretty neat browser, defiantly beats)


     

    Office (Nothing beats using a full version of MS Office and when paired with a good keyboard typing long posts such as this is almost thereputic. 


    • Word 


    • Excel 


    • PowerPoint 


    • OneNote: Desktop Version 


    • OneNote: Metro Version (I prefer this one over the desktop version and I can't wait till Microsoft finally releases a touch version of Office) 


    • Outlook: Desktop Version (I use this for my personal domain and Hotmail accounts) 


    • Outlook: Metro Version (I like using this version for AOL, Yahoo and Google accounts) 


     

    Music (Nothing special here, works like ever other tablet, though I do have to say the built in speakers sound pretty good.) 


    • Spotify (such a nice interface for Metro ) 


    • Audials Radio Pro (best Podcast player I've used on the Windows 8 platform, highly recommended, only 3.00 bucks too) 


    • TuneIn (great online radio player) 


    • Clouder 


    • Edjing (I use this app in conjunction with Spotify, I like making my own mix's, defiantly a fun app) 


    • Groove (for listening to local music which is located on my 128GB SanDisk Mini SD card and OneDrive) 


     

    Videos (Watching videos on this tablet is a real treat, the colors are vibrant, blacks are real, no lag in the videos what's so ever and I only stream 1080) 


    • NetFlix 


    • Zattoo (a fantastic TV app, probably the best one I have ever used) 


    • TED (I could spend hours on this app, one of the most interesting things to come out of the internet in a long while) 


    •  Hype (fantastic YouTube app) 


    •  VLC (Metro version of the this very popular app, plays almost every codec there is, I use it for streaming my videos directly from OneDive and Google Drive. Though not really necessary as both these cloud services provide wonderful web interfaces that can stream pretty much anything that is stored in them.) 


     

    Content Consumption Apps (The content is the same on every tablet but what makes Windows 8 unique is the design of the apps, very attractive, intuitive and extremely fast) 


    • Flipboard (awesome, must have, if you don’t use it right now there is something wrong with you) 


    • Pinterest (waning this app is more addictive then crack, super coooool!) 


    • AppyGeek (another fun one for tech addicts) 


    • News 360 (Onee of the nicest looking apps out their, also very addictive) 


    • News Republic 


    • CNN 


    • BBC 


    • Feedly (my favorite)  


    • and a bunch of local German and French news apps 


     



    Photo Editing (I really like managing my photos with this tablet, it's so much easier when every app can access not only your local photos but your cloud stuff as well. The large beautiful screen also helps a lot) 


    • Fotor (one of my favorite photo enhancers, super fast, great interface.) 


    •  Pixlr (a web app, Photoshop like functionality, tons of features that are constantly being updated and added too, also one of the most popular photo editing apps on the internet, when in full screen you would never know you were using a web app) 


    • KVADPhot0+ Pro (some of the best filters around, not to mention that theirs hundreds of them, defiantly worth the 4.00 bucks their charging) 


    • Image (at 10.00 bucks it isn’t cheap but a must have photo viewer none the less, not only is it super fast, can access all of your cloud storage accounts but can display any information that is imbedded into the image. Worth ever penny, a no brainer) 


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  • Reply 156 of 288
    lowepglowepg Posts: 106member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

     

     

     



    So what do you think about 4GB of memory now, 



     

    I think its not enough by half for a device that cannot EVER be upgraded and can cost upwards of $1000.

     

    Pretty much the same thing I thought in my last post :-)

  • Reply 157 of 288
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by lowepg View Post

     

     

    I think its not enough by half for a device that cannot EVER be upgraded and can cost upwards of $1000.

     

    Pretty much the same thing I thought in my last post :-)




    Aaaah I have carpel tunnel now after that huge post, no fair, your supposed to fall in line with my way of thinking. These aren't the droids your looking for, how about now. So what do you buy then, you can't upgrade MacBook's. Do they even make tablets that can be upgraded? At the end of the day I truly believe 4GB is more then enough for most people, I use a device with only 2GB and I have yet to run into a wall and I always push it. Believe it or not Windows 8.1 has really good memory management.

  • Reply 158 of 288
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,709member
    relic wrote: »

    Aaaah I have carpel tunnel now after that huge post, ...

    I did warn you about that. Haha.
  • Reply 159 of 288
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    I did warn you about that. Haha.

     

    You sure did, but like everyone who hears something is bad for you, we want to do it more. Must right a novel, no you can't, it will kill you, don't stop me, I must write my memorials. Non fiction or fiction, fiction of course, if people actually heard about the stuff I've done they would form a lynch mob to go after me like I was the protagonist in a Marry Shelly novel.

  • Reply 160 of 288
    [@]Relic[/@] - Damn girl! You need a blog! Nice write-up about the Surface.

    I saw your post on another thread waxing poetic over your Windows phone... and rather than go back and post there, curious what you have to say about this review over at that hell-hole ZDnet.

    [URL=http://www.zdnet.com/windows-phone-app-challenge-can-it-stand-up-to-the-big-boys-7000032610/?s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61]
    Windows Phone app challenge: Can it stand up to the big boys? | ZDNet[/URL]

    Me personally, from what I saw last Fall when trying to help a client get assimilated and synced with his Nokia 920 and Windows 7/Office 2010 shop... I'd have to agree with the summary above.

    Note: the client "moved on" in Feb. to an iPhone 5s, then in April an iPad Air and in June The Dream Machine (IMO) BTO rMBP 15". Sorry... we're both happy.. :D

    Also I couldn't agree more with your views towards Adobe subs. They're a very good deal from students to pros. Not so much the "but I got to have it once in awhile" crowd.

    Last but not least regarding my post in this thread a couple days ago stating my opinion that Microsoft should change their corp. name, or Windows ... or both. Seems like they're considering it but starting small... :)

    [URL=http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/08/microsoft-considered-renaming-internet-explorer-to-escape-its-checkered-past/?comments=1]Microsoft considered renaming Internet Explorer to escape its checkered past | Ars Technica[/URL]
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