Apple's security on the newer phones is some of the most sophisticated available. Their fingerprint/thumb print scanner is virtually unbeatable.
I do not disagree. Apple is not only a leader in privacy but has in the last few years become a leader in security. This will not prevent competitors from attempting to derail Apple using any method they can.
I just have two questions for Apple if they release a iPhone payment system.
2) How does it prevent hackers from stealing my credit card number and personal info.
3) Will I still be able to take advantage of all the benefits offered by my credit card such as cashback, warranty protection, free rental insurance, and many others.
Two or three years ago around the time NFC chips were pointlessly being added to various vendor's handsets running Android, with an MC or Visa executive stated that the only way such payments to take off is for Apple to back it.
All Apple has to do is siphon off the credit card companies business and eventually offer their own Apple-branded credit card on the iPhone. Cut out the middlemen and you'll instantly have the worlds biggest credit company. American Express has a market cap of less than $94 billion.
Five years from now...
Tim: "Since the Federal Reserve is in the process of being shut down, we've been selected by the US government to administer and manage the US currency system. We are replacing the dollar with our secure and stable commodity-backed iCoin. Only available on iPhone and iOS, as mandated by government decree. Hail Satan!... er, oops..."
I'm travelling now, but I think the this phase is not about credit card COMPANIES but CARD PAYMENT PROCESSORS (the guys that put the phone line and the swipe device in the retailer location)
Apple disintermediates them. Internet and secure enclave. And one time transactions. Bidirectional trust. End to end tokenization. PCI the way it should be done.
I just have two questions for Apple if they release a iPhone payment system.
2) How does it prevent hackers from stealing my credit card number and personal info.
As Macinthe408 said above, the combination of BTLE+NFC would create a much more robust secure connection than just NFC (which is probably why NFC by itself hasn't taken off in the US). So the iPhone transaction could be "chip+TouchID".
If you owned a store, would you be willing to install something that was only used by Android users? A group of people that is statistically known for being cheap? That sounds like bad business. But when Apple rolls out their new payment system, then just watch how most of the big retailers will be getting on board with this.
I just have two questions for Apple if they release a iPhone payment system.
2) How does it prevent hackers from stealing my credit card number and personal info.
3) Will I still be able to take advantage of all the benefits offered by my credit card such as cashback, warranty protection, free rental insurance, and many others.
Guessing. But my guess is that hi security mode is bidirectional trust with retailers and consumers and transactions fully tokenized. Your credit card info name etc. isn't transmitted in the clear, and likely tokenized ( think one time transaction. A new number is used for each transaction, and can't be reused, ever)
It doesn't prevent a hacker from stealing the info from your bank, but it reduces it's exposure in untrusted (everywhere else) places
Yes. At the back end your bank(the issuer of the card) still sees you executing transactions, so your miles etc still accumulate). It just sees tokens instead of cc numbers. Which are encrypted in the banks public key, and the credit card holders private key. My guess is apple signs both keys and stores them in the enclave
Two or three years ago around the time NFC chips were pointlessly being added to various vendor's handsets running Android, with an MC or Visa executive stated that the only way such payments to take off is for Apple to back it.
The purpose of the NFC chips on elite spec Android phones isn't for payment, but for bragging rights. The chips don't even have to work. It's enough to show up on a specs sheet.
The Google barge doesnt exist anymore, its been sold for scrap, after fullfilling its sole mission of creating thousands of "OMG WHAT IS INSIDE THIS INNOVATIVE GOOGLE BARGE" hype articles on tech blogs. Another one of Google's ill thought out "we dont know where the **** we're going with this, but lets do it anyway" initiatives created to keep their name in the news.
As Macinthe408 said above, the combination of BTLE+NFC would create a much more robust secure connection than just NFC (which is probably why NFC by itself hasn't taken off in the US). So the iPhone transaction could be "chip+TouchID".
The connection isn't the issue. It's been the dumb card. Replace the card with an encryption engine and even if the transaction was tapped, they will see some of the transaction (amount datE time stuff) , but not the token that validates the payor to the bank)
The 'key' will be the private encryption key security and the initial instantiation of cardholder to bank. Secure enclave fixes that pretty well on the phone side. Apple can act as a trusted agent (it has a secret key inside the phone) and establish 3 way trust. Then it's just the private key security of the approval agent, which will likely be even stronger than their ssl key security.
And then if tokenizing, the entire transaction will be 'one-time'. If hacked, the information in transit would only allow a replay attack in that you couldn't change the retailer or the amount or the time of the transaction.
Currently, the weakest link is the retailer to to payment card processor to the bank. Having your phone thru encrypted side channel talking directly to the card processor(or bank) greatly reduces the attack space.
"Apple keeps about 30% of the price of each music sale, whether it's a 99-cent track or a $10 album, according to people in the music industry. Apple has said it makes little profit from iTunes because of the costs of running the online store."
They take a percentage however much it is, which is not something they can do when people buy something from a 3rd party store. Apple paying the fees won't happen unless they've agreed a percentage fee with people implementing the system first.
Partnering with VISA and supporting debit card payments covers a lot of transactions without fees. There's also the possibility that they handle credit themselves. They already do this on their own products. They can do part payments on a debit card with the rest on credit and take regular future payments with interest through notifications and the fingerprint authentication.
Tim: "Since the Federal Reserve is in the process of being shut down, we've been selected by the US government to administer and manage the US currency system. We are replacing the dollar with our secure and stable commodity-backed iCoin. Only available on iPhone and iOS, as mandated by government decree. Hail Satan!... er, oops..."
Weren't you against crypto-currency controlled by a central authority that is answerable to a country's government?
The connection isn't the issue. It's been the dumb card. Replace the card with an encryption engine and even if the transaction was tapped, they will see some of the transaction (amount datE time stuff) , but not the token that validates the payor to the bank)
The 'key' will be the private encryption key security and the initial instantiation of cardholder to bank. Secure enclave fixes that pretty well on the phone side. Apple can act as a trusted agent (it has a secret key inside the phone) and establish 3 way trust. Then it's just the private key security of the approval agent, which will likely be even stronger than their ssl key security.
And then if tokenizing, the entire transaction will be 'one-time'. If hacked, the information in transit would only allow a replay attack in that you couldn't change the retailer or the amount or the time of the transaction.
Currently, the weakest link is the retailer to to payment card processor to the bank. Having your phone thru encrypted side channel talking directly to the card processor(or bank) greatly reduces the attack space.
Thanks, that's interesting info to me. Sounds like the physical card may be completely unnecessary by the method you describe.
NFC. NFC. NFC. The NFC mantra for the upcoming iPhone is similar to last year's NFC mantra for the iPhone 5S.
Apple showed that iBeacons was the direction it was going in and the NFC mantra faded away.
With with over 500 million-plus iPhone/iPad/iPhone Mini (my guess) users who are tied to iTunes and who can install iOS 8 the day the new operating system is released, I question why Apple would choose to drop ALL of those customers in favor of NFC instead of iBeacons.
People can point to NFC patents Apple has submitted and/or have been approved, but they can also point to similar iBeacons patents like these...
For some reason analysts are fixated on NFC just like there have been fixated on a full-fledged television and a smart watch! As has been stated above multiple times, Android has had NFC for years and the technology has gone nowhere fast. IF Apple were to adopt NFC, the technology would finally be legitimized due to Apple being able to do something Google has been unsuccessful at doing for three-four-five years now!
Samsung, the so-called TRUE Android competitor to Apple, tried to make NFC successful with NFC tags. That effort, like other Samsung efforts, went nowhere fast. No matter how much Android fans might protest this failure, all they have to do is read their Web sites to see how many articles have been written THIS year about NFC tags vs iBeacons. If NFC was so good why has every Android Wear manufacturer chosen NOT to include an NFC chip in their smart watches? If Apple included an NFC chip in its rumored smart watch (or wearable -- analysts have recently begun hedging their bets on this), every Android Wear manufacturer would start including an NFC chip in their smart watches as fast as possible.
With iBeacons technology being deployed all over the world for shopping, sports and more, the technology provides Apple a unique opportunity to implement an e-payments solution tied to iTunes that cannot be easily copied by Google and its Android partners. What makes this even more interesting is many Android smartphone users have iPads and because of this they may get to use Apple's e-payments solution.
No matter my thoughts on this subject, Apple may answer many questions on Tuesday, September 9, 2014.
The problem is unless they're 'AirDropping' these NFC receptacles at all these businesses on launch day then how prolific will this payments rollout be? I know in my normal day-to-day with all the restaurants/shops/etc. I go to I don't see them.
Most of the payment terminals I see these days are already equipped with an RFID reader for use with the payment FOB's many card companies already offer, which I believe is probably the same payment technology that any NFC chip in the phone would mimic. So I doubt they would need to provide new hardware to any retailer. That's just a guess, however - I do nit have concrete information to back it up.
Excellent news, as Amex is truly a terrific organization.
The only slight problem could be that Amex has much lower acceptance by establishments in Asia and Europe, as well as with smaller retailers in the US (given their higher merchant rates compared to MasterCard and Visa).
That said, I have no doubt that the others will be signing on pretty soon if Amex is on board.
I have to say, I think the idea that Amex has lower acceptance rates, at least in the US, is a little overblown. I use an Amex BCE for almost every purchase I make (cash back on all spending is pretty great), and in two years of doing so I've had exactly one establishment tell me they didn't take it. I haven't tried in Europe or Asia, however, so perhaps it is a bigger issue there.
All that said, I think it unlikely that Apple would be unable to get a partnership with Visa and / or Mastercard. It seems to me that pretty much any of the major providers would be lining up to partner with Apple. It wouldn't be surprised to see all of them show up as partners if this indeed is unveiled on the 9th.
The Google barge doesnt exist anymore, its been sold for scrap, after fullfilling its sole mission of creating thousands of "OMG WHAT IS INSIDE THIS INNOVATIVE GOOGLE BARGE" hype articles on tech blogs. Another one of Google's ill thought out "we dont know where the **** we're going with this, but lets do it anyway" initiatives created to keep their name in the news.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
What Google barge?
The barge has been sold and the four-story structure will be dismantled, along with Portland’s hope for a new claim to fame.
Don't worry. The tech pundits applaud the Google barge as innovative and Google has won points for trying to disrupt the status quo in retail. And they're going to give Google a "most innovative company of 2014" award for it. And techies will clamor for Apple to keep up.
Comments
I do not disagree. Apple is not only a leader in privacy but has in the last few years become a leader in security. This will not prevent competitors from attempting to derail Apple using any method they can.
Heh heh. I was thinking the same thing. It's the only financial services firm in my (self-created, i.e, not mutual fund, 401k etc) portfolio.
I just have two questions for Apple if they release a iPhone payment system.
2) How does it prevent hackers from stealing my credit card number and personal info.
3) Will I still be able to take advantage of all the benefits offered by my credit card such as cashback, warranty protection, free rental insurance, and many others.
I'm travelling now, but I think the this phase is not about credit card COMPANIES but CARD PAYMENT PROCESSORS (the guys that put the phone line and the swipe device in the retailer location)
Apple disintermediates them. Internet and secure enclave. And one time transactions. Bidirectional trust. End to end tokenization. PCI the way it should be done.
Then the CC companies
Then... The banksters.
More later
I just have two questions for Apple if they release a iPhone payment system.
2) How does it prevent hackers from stealing my credit card number and personal info.
As Macinthe408 said above, the combination of BTLE+NFC would create a much more robust secure connection than just NFC (which is probably why NFC by itself hasn't taken off in the US). So the iPhone transaction could be "chip+TouchID".
If you owned a store, would you be willing to install something that was only used by Android users? A group of people that is statistically known for being cheap? That sounds like bad business. But when Apple rolls out their new payment system, then just watch how most of the big retailers will be getting on board with this.
Even the Google barge?
Guessing. But my guess is that hi security mode is bidirectional trust with retailers and consumers and transactions fully tokenized. Your credit card info name etc. isn't transmitted in the clear, and likely tokenized ( think one time transaction. A new number is used for each transaction, and can't be reused, ever)
It doesn't prevent a hacker from stealing the info from your bank, but it reduces it's exposure in untrusted (everywhere else) places
Yes. At the back end your bank(the issuer of the card) still sees you executing transactions, so your miles etc still accumulate). It just sees tokens instead of cc numbers. Which are encrypted in the banks public key, and the credit card holders private key. My guess is apple signs both keys and stores them in the enclave
Two or three years ago around the time NFC chips were pointlessly being added to various vendor's handsets running Android, with an MC or Visa executive stated that the only way such payments to take off is for Apple to back it.
The purpose of the NFC chips on elite spec Android phones isn't for payment, but for bragging rights. The chips don't even have to work. It's enough to show up on a specs sheet.
Even the Google barge?
The Google barge doesnt exist anymore, its been sold for scrap, after fullfilling its sole mission of creating thousands of "OMG WHAT IS INSIDE THIS INNOVATIVE GOOGLE BARGE" hype articles on tech blogs. Another one of Google's ill thought out "we dont know where the **** we're going with this, but lets do it anyway" initiatives created to keep their name in the news.
Even the Google barge?
What Google barge?
The barge has been sold and the four-story structure will be dismantled, along with Portland’s hope for a new claim to fame.
Apple already have a high-volume B2C transaction service - the App Store.
The connection isn't the issue. It's been the dumb card. Replace the card with an encryption engine and even if the transaction was tapped, they will see some of the transaction (amount datE time stuff) , but not the token that validates the payor to the bank)
The 'key' will be the private encryption key security and the initial instantiation of cardholder to bank. Secure enclave fixes that pretty well on the phone side. Apple can act as a trusted agent (it has a secret key inside the phone) and establish 3 way trust. Then it's just the private key security of the approval agent, which will likely be even stronger than their ssl key security.
And then if tokenizing, the entire transaction will be 'one-time'. If hacked, the information in transit would only allow a replay attack in that you couldn't change the retailer or the amount or the time of the transaction.
Currently, the weakest link is the retailer to to payment card processor to the bank. Having your phone thru encrypted side channel talking directly to the card processor(or bank) greatly reduces the attack space.
Apple takes 30% of the purchase price on the online stores, WSJ says that's true for music:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB121987440206377643
"Apple keeps about 30% of the price of each music sale, whether it's a 99-cent track or a $10 album, according to people in the music industry. Apple has said it makes little profit from iTunes because of the costs of running the online store."
They take a percentage however much it is, which is not something they can do when people buy something from a 3rd party store. Apple paying the fees won't happen unless they've agreed a percentage fee with people implementing the system first.
Partnering with VISA and supporting debit card payments covers a lot of transactions without fees. There's also the possibility that they handle credit themselves. They already do this on their own products. They can do part payments on a debit card with the rest on credit and take regular future payments with interest through notifications and the fingerprint authentication.
Weren't you against crypto-currency controlled by a central authority that is answerable to a country's government?
The connection isn't the issue. It's been the dumb card. Replace the card with an encryption engine and even if the transaction was tapped, they will see some of the transaction (amount datE time stuff) , but not the token that validates the payor to the bank)
The 'key' will be the private encryption key security and the initial instantiation of cardholder to bank. Secure enclave fixes that pretty well on the phone side. Apple can act as a trusted agent (it has a secret key inside the phone) and establish 3 way trust. Then it's just the private key security of the approval agent, which will likely be even stronger than their ssl key security.
And then if tokenizing, the entire transaction will be 'one-time'. If hacked, the information in transit would only allow a replay attack in that you couldn't change the retailer or the amount or the time of the transaction.
Currently, the weakest link is the retailer to to payment card processor to the bank. Having your phone thru encrypted side channel talking directly to the card processor(or bank) greatly reduces the attack space.
Thanks, that's interesting info to me. Sounds like the physical card may be completely unnecessary by the method you describe.
NFC. NFC. NFC. The NFC mantra for the upcoming iPhone is similar to last year's NFC mantra for the iPhone 5S.
Apple showed that iBeacons was the direction it was going in and the NFC mantra faded away.
With with over 500 million-plus iPhone/iPad/iPhone Mini (my guess) users who are tied to iTunes and who can install iOS 8 the day the new operating system is released, I question why Apple would choose to drop ALL of those customers in favor of NFC instead of iBeacons.
People can point to NFC patents Apple has submitted and/or have been approved, but they can also point to similar iBeacons patents like these...
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/07/fcc-documents-surface-revealing-apples-ibeacon-testing.html#more
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/01/apple-patent-reveals-secure-iwallet-system-with-ibeacon.html
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2013/11/apple-files-four-trademark-applications-for-ibeacon-supporting-future-iwallet-services.html
And, here is something very interesting about iOS vs Android concerning iBeacons...
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/04/when-it-comes-to-ibeacon-readiness-ios-7-idevices-score-87-vs-android-devices-at-a-paltry-25.html#more
For some reason analysts are fixated on NFC just like there have been fixated on a full-fledged television and a smart watch! As has been stated above multiple times, Android has had NFC for years and the technology has gone nowhere fast. IF Apple were to adopt NFC, the technology would finally be legitimized due to Apple being able to do something Google has been unsuccessful at doing for three-four-five years now!
Samsung, the so-called TRUE Android competitor to Apple, tried to make NFC successful with NFC tags. That effort, like other Samsung efforts, went nowhere fast. No matter how much Android fans might protest this failure, all they have to do is read their Web sites to see how many articles have been written THIS year about NFC tags vs iBeacons. If NFC was so good why has every Android Wear manufacturer chosen NOT to include an NFC chip in their smart watches? If Apple included an NFC chip in its rumored smart watch (or wearable -- analysts have recently begun hedging their bets on this), every Android Wear manufacturer would start including an NFC chip in their smart watches as fast as possible.
With iBeacons technology being deployed all over the world for shopping, sports and more, the technology provides Apple a unique opportunity to implement an e-payments solution tied to iTunes that cannot be easily copied by Google and its Android partners. What makes this even more interesting is many Android smartphone users have iPads and because of this they may get to use Apple's e-payments solution.
No matter my thoughts on this subject, Apple may answer many questions on Tuesday, September 9, 2014.
Weren't you against crypto-currency controlled by a central authority that is answerable to a country's government?
Yes, I am. That last bit was thrown in as a joke. Must everything have a "/s"?
The problem is unless they're 'AirDropping' these NFC receptacles at all these businesses on launch day then how prolific will this payments rollout be? I know in my normal day-to-day with all the restaurants/shops/etc. I go to I don't see them.
Most of the payment terminals I see these days are already equipped with an RFID reader for use with the payment FOB's many card companies already offer, which I believe is probably the same payment technology that any NFC chip in the phone would mimic. So I doubt they would need to provide new hardware to any retailer. That's just a guess, however - I do nit have concrete information to back it up.
Excellent news, as Amex is truly a terrific organization.
The only slight problem could be that Amex has much lower acceptance by establishments in Asia and Europe, as well as with smaller retailers in the US (given their higher merchant rates compared to MasterCard and Visa).
That said, I have no doubt that the others will be signing on pretty soon if Amex is on board.
I have to say, I think the idea that Amex has lower acceptance rates, at least in the US, is a little overblown. I use an Amex BCE for almost every purchase I make (cash back on all spending is pretty great), and in two years of doing so I've had exactly one establishment tell me they didn't take it. I haven't tried in Europe or Asia, however, so perhaps it is a bigger issue there.
All that said, I think it unlikely that Apple would be unable to get a partnership with Visa and / or Mastercard. It seems to me that pretty much any of the major providers would be lining up to partner with Apple. It wouldn't be surprised to see all of them show up as partners if this indeed is unveiled on the 9th.
The Google barge doesnt exist anymore, its been sold for scrap, after fullfilling its sole mission of creating thousands of "OMG WHAT IS INSIDE THIS INNOVATIVE GOOGLE BARGE" hype articles on tech blogs. Another one of Google's ill thought out "we dont know where the **** we're going with this, but lets do it anyway" initiatives created to keep their name in the news.
What Google barge?
The barge has been sold and the four-story structure will be dismantled, along with Portland’s hope for a new claim to fame.
Don't worry. The tech pundits applaud the Google barge as innovative and Google has won points for trying to disrupt the status quo in retail. And they're going to give Google a "most innovative company of 2014" award for it. And techies will clamor for Apple to keep up.