Not at all sure how this work with the Watch. Does it only work with the watch with the iPhone 6? Does the watch add NFC to the abilities of the 5S? Does the 5S secure enclave extend to Apple Pay and the limitation is NFC? Interesting to see how this plays out.
I don't think so. 5C has no touchID to authorize payments through the watch. We'll see
passcode enabling, just like making an iTunes store purchase on an iPhone without TouchID. With my 5s I get offered a choice: TouchID authorization or passcode entry. With a 5 or 5c I expect they'll just be passcode entry. Same as how I used to make iTunes purchase authorizations on my 5.
passcode enabling, just like making an iTunes store purchase on an iPhone without TouchID. With my 5s I get offered a choice: TouchID authorization or passcode entry. With a 5 or 5c I expect they'll just be passcode entry. Same as how I used to make iTunes purchase authorizations on my 5.
I think a general credit are "replacement" service that can be used anywhere is a lot bigger than buying apps or songs from iTunes and that Apple will be much more careful and conservative with it. Passcodes are not really secure enough for that I would imagine.
How long before cashiers ask not only to see the image on the screen but also your ID to double check the signature etc.
I am all for smarter and more secure tech but we are still dealing with people in many cases and it may take far longer for any adjustments on that front to catch up to the capabilities of technology.
Did you see the simulation/demo? There is no image on any screen, there is no signature (digital or old-fashioned) to sign. It is not the cashier's job to verify your identity or the validity of your card. The whole point of ?Pay is that the secure loop doesn't include the cashier, ?Pay takes care of verification and authentication.
How long before cashiers ask not only to see the image on the screen but also your ID to double check the signature etc.
I am all for smarter and more secure tech but we are still dealing with people in many cases and it may take far longer for any adjustments on that front to catch up to the capabilities of technology.
No...cashiers are not going to ask for anything. They're going to see "payment approved" and a receipt will print out.
That's not the issue. The issue is that until it's universally accepted at virtually every retail location that accepts credit or debit today, one still has to carry around a physical credit/debit card anyway, so while there is still some benefit to Apple Pay, it's not really going to enable people to get rid of their wallets. However, in the U.S., the retail industry (at least the big boys) have already committed to upgrading all the terminals to accept chip-based credit cards. NFC can be part of that upgrade. The credit card companies have told retailers that if they don't install the new terminals by some future date (I forget what the date is), their transaction fees will be higher.
I'd also like to see Apple work with all the State DMVs so that you don't have to carry around a physical driver's license. Once that happens and Apple Pay is ubiquitous, I could slim down to a billfold.
No...cashiers are not going to ask for anything. They're going to see "payment approved" and a receipt will print out.
That's not the issue. The issue is that until it's universally accepted at virtually every retail location that accepts credit or debit today, one still has to carry around a physical credit/debit card anyway, so while there is still some benefit to Apple Pay, it's not really going to enable people to get rid of their wallets. However, in the U.S., the retail industry (at least the big boys) have already committed to upgrading all the terminals to accept chip-based credit cards. NFC can be part of that upgrade. The credit card companies have told retailers that if they don't install the new terminals by some future date (I forget what the date is), their transaction fees will be higher.
I'd also like to see Apple work with all the State DMVs so that you don't have to carry around a physical driver's license. Once that happens and Apple Pay is ubiquitous, I could slim down to a billfold.
I shop at one place where despite a keypad and swipe setup for the customer to use they still ask to see the card and check for a signature and if not signed ask for ID and in some places they enter the security code. So while technology allows for a transaction to take place in which the cashier nor the customer in line behind you needs to have any sort of physical or visual access to your card - that doesn't guarantee that everyone operating such gear will understand how it is used or prevent a store from having a policy where they ask to see things that are not strictly necessary to complete the transaction.
Did you see the simulation/demo? There is no image on any screen, there is no signature (digital or old-fashioned) to sign. It is not the cashier's job to verify your identity or the validity of your card. The whole point of ?Pay is that the secure loop doesn't include the cashier, ?Pay takes care of verification and authentication.
I have not yet been able to watch the presentation/demo. My point is that for technology to be entirely effective - everyone involved in its use needs to have some understanding of how to use it properly.
I think a general credit are "replacement" service that can be used anywhere is a lot bigger than buying apps or songs from iTunes and that Apple will be much more careful and conservative with it. Passcodes are not really secure enough for that I would imagine.
We'll have to see.
"have to see". Could be the case. Somewhere in the weeds of the details could be that restriction to touchID enabled devices.
Could two-step verification help with the security?
Did you see the simulation/demo? There is no image on any screen, there is no signature (digital or old-fashioned) to sign. It is not the cashier's job to verify your identity or the validity of your card. The whole point of ?Pay is that the secure loop doesn't include the cashier, ?Pay takes care of verification and authentication.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64
I have not yet been able to watch the presentation/demo. My point is that for technology to be entirely effective - everyone involved in its use needs to have some understanding of how to use it properly.
You'll be very impressed, then. When it's time to pay, you hold up the iPhone to the NFC reader (or whatever you call it) and click. That's it. Payment goes through or doesn't depending on whether you pass the authentication requirements. It's awesome, but it needs iPhone6 or ?Watch. And no one knows yet if ?Watch will work if you have an older iPhone. Hope it does, at least for 5s since it has TouchID, but I'm not too optimistic.
How long before cashiers ask not only to see the image on the screen but also your ID to double check the signature etc.
I am all for smarter and more secure tech but we are still dealing with people in many cases and it may take far longer for any adjustments on that front to catch up to the capabilities of technology.
IIRC with the Starbucks AP they get to see my photo on the display. Depending on implementation that would be a secure form of built-in "photo-ID" all in one package.
I shop at one place where despite a keypad and swipe setup for the customer to use they still ask to see the card and check for a signature and if not signed ask for ID and in some places they enter the security code. So while technology allows for a transaction to take place in which the cashier nor the customer in line behind you needs to have any sort of physical or visual access to your card - that doesn't guarantee that everyone operating such gear will understand how it is used or prevent a store from having a policy where they ask to see things that are not strictly necessary to complete the transaction.
Might be easier to go back to using cash :-)
Once you watch the Keynote and the Demo then It may make more sense to you. All of your concerns are solved pretty simply as Apple Pay uses a combination of information already entered in iTunes about the card holder, and Touch ID. No clerk is going to ask to see a signature when Apple Pay only works with the correct fingerprint via Touch ID. Highly unlikely that anybody needs to see something so simple to forge as a signature when authentication takes a fingerprint. furthermore, there is no signature anywhere in Apple Pay to even be displayed. The only thing needed to solve the problem that you're talking about is a simple store training.
So much for my "no NFC" prediction! Oh well! If the professional analysts are wrong more than half the time, it should be no surprise that a non-analyst is also wrong! /s
The implementation looks good, but I've got 2 questions:
1. At the very end of the presentation, they mentioned that Apple Watch would be fully compatible with Apple Pay. How do they manage that without Touch ID on the Apple Watch? Or are they going to implement Touch ID inside the crown?
2. The initial implementation is US-only. Does anyone have any predictions on how long it will take them to expand into Canada and the rest of the world?
The Apple Watch only works with the iPhone, although it works with the iPhone 5 which doesn't have Touch ID, so the plot thickens.
Does anyone else remember when Activation Lock was announced there were a lot of naysayers who didn't think it would do much to reduce phone thefts? Then a year later we find out Activation Lock was very successful according to the data released by several police departments.
I know that Apple Pay is going to have the same effect on credit card fraud.
I know that Apple Pay is going to have the same effect on credit card fraud.
On that note, does anyone actually sign their cards? I sign my cards “Ask to see ID.” That way it’s worthless for non-digital purchases if stolen, and by the time someone makes a digital one I’d’ve noticed. With ?Pay, now the digital part is obsolete thanks to TouchID.
[SIZE=4][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/SIZE] On spec page of iPhone 6, it doesn't show NFC being an option for Verizon. Am I reading this right? No Apple pay=move to AT&T
I live in Japan. The iPhone is huge here, damn near every smart phone user is an iPhone user. NFC is also huge here, much more than in America. I use it every day to get on the train by simply tapping my card against an NFC reader. You can pay for things in the store with it as well. However from what I'm reading Apple Pay will not work in Japan due to the fact that an older version of the NFC tech is used here. Can anyone confirm this?
I live in Japan. The iPhone is huge here, damn near every smart phone user is an iPhone user. NFC is also huge here, much more than in America. I use it every day to get on the train by simply tapping my card against an NFC reader. You can pay for things in the store with it as well. However from what I'm reading Apple Pay will not work in Japan due to the fact that an older version of the NFC tech is used here. Can anyone confirm this?
Comments
Not at all sure how this work with the Watch. Does it only work with the watch with the iPhone 6? Does the watch add NFC to the abilities of the 5S? Does the 5S secure enclave extend to Apple Pay and the limitation is NFC? Interesting to see how this plays out.
I don't think so. 5C has no touchID to authorize payments through the watch. We'll see
passcode enabling, just like making an iTunes store purchase on an iPhone without TouchID. With my 5s I get offered a choice: TouchID authorization or passcode entry. With a 5 or 5c I expect they'll just be passcode entry. Same as how I used to make iTunes purchase authorizations on my 5.
passcode enabling, just like making an iTunes store purchase on an iPhone without TouchID. With my 5s I get offered a choice: TouchID authorization or passcode entry. With a 5 or 5c I expect they'll just be passcode entry. Same as how I used to make iTunes purchase authorizations on my 5.
I think a general credit are "replacement" service that can be used anywhere is a lot bigger than buying apps or songs from iTunes and that Apple will be much more careful and conservative with it. Passcodes are not really secure enough for that I would imagine.
We'll have to see.
How long before cashiers ask not only to see the image on the screen but also your ID to double check the signature etc.
I am all for smarter and more secure tech but we are still dealing with people in many cases and it may take far longer for any adjustments on that front to catch up to the capabilities of technology.
Did you see the simulation/demo? There is no image on any screen, there is no signature (digital or old-fashioned) to sign. It is not the cashier's job to verify your identity or the validity of your card. The whole point of ?Pay is that the secure loop doesn't include the cashier, ?Pay takes care of verification and authentication.
How long before cashiers ask not only to see the image on the screen but also your ID to double check the signature etc.
I am all for smarter and more secure tech but we are still dealing with people in many cases and it may take far longer for any adjustments on that front to catch up to the capabilities of technology.
No...cashiers are not going to ask for anything. They're going to see "payment approved" and a receipt will print out.
That's not the issue. The issue is that until it's universally accepted at virtually every retail location that accepts credit or debit today, one still has to carry around a physical credit/debit card anyway, so while there is still some benefit to Apple Pay, it's not really going to enable people to get rid of their wallets. However, in the U.S., the retail industry (at least the big boys) have already committed to upgrading all the terminals to accept chip-based credit cards. NFC can be part of that upgrade. The credit card companies have told retailers that if they don't install the new terminals by some future date (I forget what the date is), their transaction fees will be higher.
I'd also like to see Apple work with all the State DMVs so that you don't have to carry around a physical driver's license. Once that happens and Apple Pay is ubiquitous, I could slim down to a billfold.
No...cashiers are not going to ask for anything. They're going to see "payment approved" and a receipt will print out.
That's not the issue. The issue is that until it's universally accepted at virtually every retail location that accepts credit or debit today, one still has to carry around a physical credit/debit card anyway, so while there is still some benefit to Apple Pay, it's not really going to enable people to get rid of their wallets. However, in the U.S., the retail industry (at least the big boys) have already committed to upgrading all the terminals to accept chip-based credit cards. NFC can be part of that upgrade. The credit card companies have told retailers that if they don't install the new terminals by some future date (I forget what the date is), their transaction fees will be higher.
I'd also like to see Apple work with all the State DMVs so that you don't have to carry around a physical driver's license. Once that happens and Apple Pay is ubiquitous, I could slim down to a billfold.
I shop at one place where despite a keypad and swipe setup for the customer to use they still ask to see the card and check for a signature and if not signed ask for ID and in some places they enter the security code. So while technology allows for a transaction to take place in which the cashier nor the customer in line behind you needs to have any sort of physical or visual access to your card - that doesn't guarantee that everyone operating such gear will understand how it is used or prevent a store from having a policy where they ask to see things that are not strictly necessary to complete the transaction.
Might be easier to go back to using cash :-)
Did you see the simulation/demo? There is no image on any screen, there is no signature (digital or old-fashioned) to sign. It is not the cashier's job to verify your identity or the validity of your card. The whole point of ?Pay is that the secure loop doesn't include the cashier, ?Pay takes care of verification and authentication.
I have not yet been able to watch the presentation/demo. My point is that for technology to be entirely effective - everyone involved in its use needs to have some understanding of how to use it properly.
I think a general credit are "replacement" service that can be used anywhere is a lot bigger than buying apps or songs from iTunes and that Apple will be much more careful and conservative with it. Passcodes are not really secure enough for that I would imagine.
We'll have to see.
"have to see". Could be the case. Somewhere in the weeds of the details could be that restriction to touchID enabled devices.
Could two-step verification help with the security?
Did you see the simulation/demo? There is no image on any screen, there is no signature (digital or old-fashioned) to sign. It is not the cashier's job to verify your identity or the validity of your card. The whole point of ?Pay is that the secure loop doesn't include the cashier, ?Pay takes care of verification and authentication.
I have not yet been able to watch the presentation/demo. My point is that for technology to be entirely effective - everyone involved in its use needs to have some understanding of how to use it properly.
You'll be very impressed, then. When it's time to pay, you hold up the iPhone to the NFC reader (or whatever you call it) and click. That's it. Payment goes through or doesn't depending on whether you pass the authentication requirements. It's awesome, but it needs iPhone6 or ?Watch. And no one knows yet if ?Watch will work if you have an older iPhone. Hope it does, at least for 5s since it has TouchID, but I'm not too optimistic.
How long before cashiers ask not only to see the image on the screen but also your ID to double check the signature etc.
I am all for smarter and more secure tech but we are still dealing with people in many cases and it may take far longer for any adjustments on that front to catch up to the capabilities of technology.
IIRC with the Starbucks AP they get to see my photo on the display. Depending on implementation that would be a secure form of built-in "photo-ID" all in one package.
I shop at one place where despite a keypad and swipe setup for the customer to use they still ask to see the card and check for a signature and if not signed ask for ID and in some places they enter the security code. So while technology allows for a transaction to take place in which the cashier nor the customer in line behind you needs to have any sort of physical or visual access to your card - that doesn't guarantee that everyone operating such gear will understand how it is used or prevent a store from having a policy where they ask to see things that are not strictly necessary to complete the transaction.
Might be easier to go back to using cash :-)
Once you watch the Keynote and the Demo then It may make more sense to you. All of your concerns are solved pretty simply as Apple Pay uses a combination of information already entered in iTunes about the card holder, and Touch ID. No clerk is going to ask to see a signature when Apple Pay only works with the correct fingerprint via Touch ID. Highly unlikely that anybody needs to see something so simple to forge as a signature when authentication takes a fingerprint. furthermore, there is no signature anywhere in Apple Pay to even be displayed. The only thing needed to solve the problem that you're talking about is a simple store training.
This should make returns pretty simple because you can never lose a receipt if you use Apple Pay.
I’m happiest about its support for debit, to be honest. Never been a fan of credit cards.
I hope the international rollout for this is rapid.
So do I. I'm not optimistic, though, seeing as we're still waiting for iTunes Radio in the UK.
So much for my "no NFC" prediction! Oh well! If the professional analysts are wrong more than half the time, it should be no surprise that a non-analyst is also wrong! /s
The implementation looks good, but I've got 2 questions:
1. At the very end of the presentation, they mentioned that Apple Watch would be fully compatible with Apple Pay. How do they manage that without Touch ID on the Apple Watch? Or are they going to implement Touch ID inside the crown?
2. The initial implementation is US-only. Does anyone have any predictions on how long it will take them to expand into Canada and the rest of the world?
The Apple Watch only works with the iPhone, although it works with the iPhone 5 which doesn't have Touch ID, so the plot thickens.
Does anyone else remember when Activation Lock was announced there were a lot of naysayers who didn't think it would do much to reduce phone thefts? Then a year later we find out Activation Lock was very successful according to the data released by several police departments.
I know that Apple Pay is going to have the same effect on credit card fraud.
I know that Apple Pay is going to have the same effect on credit card fraud.
On that note, does anyone actually sign their cards? I sign my cards “Ask to see ID.” That way it’s worthless for non-digital purchases if stolen, and by the time someone makes a digital one I’d’ve noticed. With ?Pay, now the digital part is obsolete thanks to TouchID.
On spec page of iPhone 6, it doesn't show NFC being an option for Verizon. Am I reading this right? No Apple pay=move to AT&T
I live in Japan. The iPhone is huge here, damn near every smart phone user is an iPhone user. NFC is also huge here, much more than in America. I use it every day to get on the train by simply tapping my card against an NFC reader. You can pay for things in the store with it as well. However from what I'm reading Apple Pay will not work in Japan due to the fact that an older version of the NFC tech is used here. Can anyone confirm this?
No.