FBI director says iOS and Android privacy features put users 'above the law'

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  • Reply 41 of 188

    I hope you were not being serious with those comments. Are you aware that the police are just as prone to corruption, murder, theft, domestic abuse, drug abuse and other negative behaviors as the general population? Putting on a suit and carrying a badge does not create an angel out of a human being, just as being a powerful elected leader does not imbue a person with supernatural or godlike powers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cases_of_police_brutality_in_the_United_States

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism

    I could dig up examples all day if necessary... Or you could just look at the daily headlines and find some example of unfettered corruption or other crime by people who supposedly represent your interests.
    I thought the sarcasm was pretty apparent in that comment given the final paragraph.
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  • Reply 42 of 188
    Wait, what?

    A user can still honor a warrant with an encrypted phone. They just turn over the password.

    Apple and Google are offering users a lock and key. They aren't violating any warrants.
    Law enforcement are entitled to gather evidence without knowledge by the suspect. It's a legitimate investigative process to help identify accomplices and new evidence. What you are proposing would constrain their ability to investigate without a suspect's awareness.
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  • Reply 43 of 188

    The big change here and the advantage that Apple has even still is that 1.) the encryption is hardware based not software based, and 2.) the encryption keys are now only stored on the device itself.  So even if Apple is served with some warrant, they can't do anything about the data on the phone.  They could give the LE authority a copy of the user's data on their servers, but they can not access the data on the user's phone anymore.  What's more, this now breaks the LE's tools for hacking the phones.

     

    Combined this with how easily the encryption is turned on in iOS (as soon as you add a passcode to the device, which is standard when you setup touch id) and this has the likes of the FBI and the NSA "concerned".  Is it any wonder that this bug in iOS 8.0.1 broke touch ID?  Could there be an effort to somehow circumvent Apple's security?

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  • Reply 44 of 188
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    I would guess they already host it all on Chinese-owned servers. A story a couple weeks back reported iCloud in China goes to China Telecom servers. While Apple says CT doesn't have access to the encryption keys I don't recall a statement that the Chinese government itself does not, tho perhaps they said so in a statement somewhere. No one outside of Chinese and Apple officials would even have known about the changes in iCloud storage there if not for an inadvertent posting on a government information page. Quickly removed of course.

    http://wallstcheatsheet.com/technology/why-did-apple-move-its-chinese-icloud-data-storage-to-china-telecom.html/?a=viewall



    I personally believe this is the only way Apple will be able to continue to offer their products in China. The US government would never allow China Mobile to offer their wireless services in the US without full access to all data. You can bet on that.

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  • Reply 45 of 188
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Milwaukee, WY View Post





    I thought the sarcasm was pretty apparent in that comment given the final paragraph.



    Perhaps. Without the little "/s" sometimes is just isn't clear.  ;)

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  • Reply 46 of 188
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RORWessels View Post

     

    The big change here and the advantage that Apple has even still is that 1.) the encryption is hardware based not software based, and 2.) the encryption keys are now only stored on the device itself.  So even if Apple is served with some warrant, they can't do anything about the data on the phone.  They could give the LE authority a copy of the user's data on their servers, but they can not access the data on the user's phone anymore.  What's more, this now breaks the LE's tools for hacking the phones.

     

    Combined this with how easily the encryption is turned on in iOS (as soon as you add a passcode to the device, which is standard when you setup touch id) and this has the likes of the FBI and the NSA "concerned".  Is it any wonder that this bug in iOS 8.0.1 broke touch ID?  Could there be an effort to somehow circumvent Apple's security?




    LE = law enforcement (?)

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  • Reply 47 of 188



    Yes

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  • Reply 48 of 188

    While I am a supporter of Law Enforcement, just using encryption that does not have a back core is not a crime, nor is advertising that you have a secure product.  If the FBI legitimately (i.e. with a warrant) wants to get in your phone, you either unlock it or go to jail.  The person is the one who refuses to comply with the warrant's instruction, not Apple or Google.

     

    The U.S. government has been shown to be taking shortcuts with our rights in the name of security, and they have lost the trust of most of the American people not to mention the rest of the world.  This is a direct result of that abuse.

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  • Reply 49 of 188
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,769member
    Law enforcement are entitled to gather evidence without knowledge by the suspect. It's a legitimate investigative process to help identify accomplices and new evidence. What you are proposing would constrain their ability to investigate without a suspect's awareness.
    Anything stored in the Cloud is still fair game. That might include files, photos, app data, SMS and iMessages, etc. For those really concerned about government authorities having access to personal information and communications originating on your iDevice don't use Apple's or anyone else's Cloud storage.
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  • Reply 50 of 188
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     



    I think they already have a backdoor. Microsoft is easy to bully because of their many government contracts.




    Now Microsoft and the government can monitor all five of the Windows phone users. 

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  • Reply 51 of 188
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post





    Law enforcement are entitled to gather evidence without knowledge by the suspect. It's a legitimate investigative process to help identify accomplices and new evidence. What you are proposing would constrain their ability to investigate without a suspect's awareness.



    That is bullsh*t.  Law enforcement can gather that evidence.  They can monitor all data in and out of that device.  All of the users Google searches (even when encrypted), and pretty much anything that device does on the Internet.   What they can't do is see what is inside the device.  Sure they can't see every picture you have taken or every note you typed in, but almost everything else travels over the Internet. 

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  • Reply 52 of 188
    It's pretty clear a lot of posters have a strong interest in hiding stuff from the police. It's exactly the actions and concerns that criminals spend their time on. They also like to plot and conduct their criminal activities more conveniently in secret.
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  • Reply 53 of 188
    muppetry wrote: »
    Presumably, by this argument, anyone using strong cryptography is placing themselves above the law. Is it illegal to "place yourself above the law", whatever that means?

    He's saying that "the Law" just hates to be the "bottom" in any relationship
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  • Reply 54 of 188
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    It's pretty clear a lot of posters have a strong interest in hiding stuff from the police. It's exactly the actions and concerns that criminals spend their time on. They also like to plot and conduct their criminal activities more conveniently in secret.

    Strawman. Don't do that.
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  • Reply 55 of 188
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post



    It's pretty clear a lot of posters have a strong interest in hiding stuff from the police. It's exactly the actions and concerns that criminals spend their time on. They also like to plot and conduct their criminal activities more conveniently in secret.

    So the majority of the public are thought criminals? 

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  • Reply 56 of 188
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post



    It's pretty clear a lot of posters have a strong interest in hiding stuff from the police.



    Is it?

     

    It's exactly the actions and concerns that criminals spend their time on. They also like to plot and conduct their criminal activities more conveniently in secret.


     

    LOL!

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  • Reply 57 of 188
    Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post

    It's pretty clear a lot of posters have a strong interest in hiding stuff from the police. It's exactly the actions and concerns that criminals spend their time on. They also like to plot and conduct their criminal activities more conveniently in secret.



    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH



    That people like you exist and can vote is more terrifying than the government overreach you vote into office.

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  • Reply 58 of 188
    beltsbear wrote: »

    That is bullsh*t.  Law enforcement can gather that evidence.  They can monitor all data in and out of that device.  All of the users Google searches (even when encrypted), and pretty much anything that device does on the Internet.   What they can't do is see what is inside the device.  Sure they can't see every picture you have taken or every note you typed in, but almost everything else travels over the Internet. 
    I think Apple is claiming law enforcement won't have the ability to do these things and this is what I'm addressing.
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  • Reply 59 of 188
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    beltsbear wrote: »

    That is bullsh*t.  Law enforcement can gather that evidence.  They can monitor all data in and out of that device.  All of the users Google searches (even when encrypted), and pretty much anything that device does on the Internet.   What they can't do is see what is inside the device.  Sure they can't see every picture you have taken or every note you typed in, but almost everything else travels over the Internet. 
    I think Apple is claiming law enforcement won't have the ability to do these things and this is what I'm addressing.

    No, what they are saying is that they (Apple) don't have access to the contents, and so LE will need to serve the warrant on the device owner. Nothing wrong with that.
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  • Reply 60 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post





    I think Apple is claiming law enforcement won't have the ability to do these things and this is what I'm addressing.



    Weaknesses engineered into OS encryption serve criminals as well as law enforcement, therefore no backdoor is the only way to ensure security for everyone. Credit card data and any other critical information would be vulnerable otherwise.

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