So... in other words... you used a number that shows absolutely no breakdown whatsoever, absolutely no idea whatsoever of 6+ sales, to prove your point? ... and you have the nerve to say that I am pulling numbers out of my ass.
Oh, boy...
I think you need to slow down and read, because obviously you missed my point. My point had nothing to do with the 6+ specifically (that was all you). My sole point was the 4in phone is dead. The 6 family is selling exceptionally well, underlining my point. I don't need breakouts, Apple telling me it broke all records, and looking at their developer tools provided to me is enough to see that. El Fin.
Apparently reading comprehension is as dead as the small phone.
I think you need to slow down and read, because obviously you missed my point. My point had nothing to do with the 6+ specifically (that was all you). My sole point was the 4in phone is dead. The 6 family is selling exceptionally well, underlining my point. I don't need breakouts, Apple telling me it broke all records, and looking at their developer tools provided to me is enough to see that. El Fin.
Apparently reading comprehension is as dead as the small phone.
Apparently reading comprehension is dead.
What you don't seem to get is that you are doing the exact same thing as me but you just don't get it.
You want us to believe that a hypothetical phone would not sell as well as the current phones... which is something that you do not know.
Let me speak slower for you...
If you had said:
"Apple is selling enough phones now that it probably makes no sense for them to go back to a 4" phone."
I might have agreed... but you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
To say it would have outsold the new 6 is just silly. All time records broken, 10 million in 4 days, ship dates out to November in some cases...come on.
What you don't seem to get is that you are doing the exact same thing as me but you just don't get it.
You want us to believe that a hypothetical phone would not sell as well as the current phones... which is something that you do not know.
It's not at all the same as it's not hypothetical. Apple does currently sell two small phones in the 5s and 5c. If people really were turned off by the bigger sizes, would we see record sales for bigger models? Where's the spike in 5s from the "I waited and don't like the new size so I bought a 5S instead" group? Any stats I have seen show the 5 family on a slow decline as the 6 picks up share, not flat or higher, which would support your position.
It's not at all the same as it's not hypothetical. Apple does currently sell two small phones in the 5s and 5c. If people really were turned off by the bigger sizes, would we see record sales for bigger models? Where's the spike in 5s from the "I waited and don't like the new size so I bought a 5S instead" group? Any stats I have seen show the 5 family on a slow decline as the 6 picks up share, not flat or higher, which would support your position.
Read my edited answer before this... and maybe you'll get it.
(one thing I am waiting for is the numbers from Cannacord in December or so. Wouldn't it be a shocker if the 5S was in the #2 spot and the 6+ in the #3 spot)
(one thing I am waiting for is the numbers from Cannacord in December or so. Wouldn't it be a shocker if the 5S was in the #2 spot and the 6+ in the #3 spot)
That would be interesting, and frankly not completely unexpected since the phablet category of devices have not been widely popular according to Google's own Android analytics, and the 5S is still the flagship device in many countries right now.
Read my edited answer before this... and maybe you'll get it.
You're now cherrypicking words and 'editing' posts which must mean you're running out replies. I stand by my original point, I meant 6 as 6 family of 6/6+ but not sure that even matters?
Quote:
(one thing I am waiting for is the numbers from Cannacord in December or so. Wouldn't it be a shocker if the 5S was in the #2 spot and the 6+ in the #3 spot)
No it wouldn't be at all, in fact the 5S may very well still be #1 depending. Most people are not on a yearly upgrade cycle. The rise and fall of models is similar every year over their 24 month lifecycle, of course the most common long running model is going to out rank one released less than 2-3 months ago... That means nothing. What would have to happen is a stunted growth of the 6 (family) to see that decline trend trail off for the 5S and that will probably take longer than December. (Ok that one is a professional guess)
That would be interesting, and frankly not completely unexpected since the phablet category of devices have not been widely popular according to Google's own Android analytics, and the 5S is still the flagship device in many countries right now.
I keep on hearing these stories about how popular phablets (I'm talking about 5+ inch phones) are in other countries but then I see some of the numbers from analysts and they just don't jive with what I consider popular. Popular is selling 30 million+ phones of one type (ie: 5S) in a quarter... not 30 million phones in a year.
You're now cherrypicking words and 'editing' posts which must mean you're running out replies. I stand by my original point, I meant 6 as 6 family of 6/6+ but not sure that even matters?
No it wouldn't be at all, in fact the 5S may very well still be #1 depending. Most people are not on a yearly upgrade cycle. The rise and fall of models is similar every year over their 24 month lifecycle, of course the most common long running model is going to out rank one released less than 2-3 months ago... That means nothing. What would have to happen is a stunted growth of the 6 (family) to see that decline trend trail off for the 5S and that will probably take longer than December. (Ok that one is a professional guess)
Cherry picking? Are you shitting me. That was the exact part of your statement that I quoted. It sounds like you are back tracking on your 6 statement.
The 5S might be #1? Oh, boy. Now I know you really are shitting me.
I keep on hearing these stories about how popular phablets (I'm talking about 5+ inch phones) are in other countries but then I see some of the numbers from analysts and they just don't jive with what I consider popular. Popular is selling 30 million+ phones of one type (ie: 5S) in a quarter... not 30 million phones in a year.
So far the only thing I think I can predict with relative certainly is the iPhone 6 series will be the best selling 4.5"+ devices on the market.
Samsung was already showing signs of declining smartphone sales so I expect this to hit them hard over the next year.
PS: I could see the 4" returning next year. Sometimes removing something can make people realize how much they want it. This worked splendidly for Coke Classic sales.
PPS: My roommate just moved from the iPhone 4S to the 6. She was worried about the size. She is 5 feet tall and pretty much a member of the Lollipop Guild in every other way and she's fine with the 4.5" device. She says it doesn't feel any larger and definitely lighter than her 4S, so there is that.
Cherry picking? Are you shitting me. That was the exact part of your statement that I quoted. It sounds like you are back tracking on your 6 statement.
The 5S might be #1? Oh, boy. Now I know you really are shitting me.
I backtracked on nothing and I didn't immaturely resort to profanity either. Perhaps you have some growing up to do.
In December 2012, the 4S held a 40% share compared to the recently released iPhone 5's 18%. In December 2013, surprise similar numbers... so this year? Exactly. I suppose that's beyond a 4 letter word comprehension.
A 4 inch iPhone 6 would've outsold the iPhone 6 Plus by a wide margin. It's far more fitting for the vast majority of people around the world. Apple fans are stunned that the company would drop it like a hot potato for some niche device that goes against their philosophy of creating the best products. Instead they've gone out and endorsed the hamfisted ideas of competitors who came up with this zany big phone gimmick because they couldn't compete head to head.
Sorry but this is just wrong small world view. Which market is Aplle still trying to conquer? ... China. What is the luxury market in China? Phablets. How can people afford Phablets? ... Because with a poor wired Internet infrastructure and a quickly growing wireless (LTE) infrastructure, Chinese middle class espouses computers and is built on tablets and Phablets. The truth is that these phones, especially the 6+, were not meant to entice current Apple phone owners to upgrade (a limiting market, especially since aa iPhone upgrade often cannibalizes entry iPhone sales because of pass down) they were meant to bring new users into the IOS fold. As most of the anti-Phablet comments seem to miss, current Apple products are satisfying most current iPhone owners and the highest growth market for Apple is people outside of the current iOS tent.
I have used all sorts of form factors in cell phones since the Motorola brick and have been using wireless data since the Handspring clip on GPRS modems. I have always been looking for devices that could provide data and voice capability on the go. Long ago, I went to using Bluetooth headsets, and have little use for raising a cell phone to my head - as a matter of fact, the most disappointing thing to me has been the lack of vox capability in the iOS tablets - for some reason, no one could fathom using an earpiece with a tablet and the enduring image of raising a 7" device to the head has been a marketing nightmare. For a long time, what I wanted was a completely minimalist cell phone run by vox dial and a tablet interface (actually, now with handoff, perhaps that is a possibility in the future.) The iPhone 6+ is a compromise product, but it allows me to carry just an iPhone and an iPad Air as opposed to carrying a phone and two tablet form factors (sorry, but I use a Mini because even the Air is tough to pull out when you are walking around).
If you are looking at going really portable, do as I do - get a BT headset plus a Pebble smart watch and leave the iPhone in your bag. Incoming calls (and texts) show up on the Pebble and you can answer your call and talk on the headset. And for those times that you need to text, appreciate the larger screen of the 6+'where the keyboard doesn't take up 2/3rds of the screen. Most of all, realize that the Earth does not revolve around you and that to continue to grow the iPhone business, Apple is going to build some products that will meet the needs of people that are different from you. Hopefully, in an upcoming refresh, Apple builds something that will better meet your needs, but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are part of the huge global market that Apple is currently chasing.
In December 2012, the 4S held a 40% share compared to the recently released iPhone 5's 18%. In December 2013, surprise similar numbers... so this year? Exactly. I suppose that's beyond a 4 letter word comprehension.
Installed base or marketahare for that quarter?
I find it hard to believe that in Apple's first fiscal quarter of 2013 the iPhone 4S was selling more than 2 units for every one model of the flagship iPhone 5 for a given market.
I backtracked on nothing and I didn't immaturely resort to profanity either. Perhaps you have some growing up to do.
In December 2012, the 4S held a 40% share compared to the recently released iPhone 5's 18%. In December 2013, surprise similar numbers... so this year? Exactly. I suppose that's beyond a 4 letter word comprehension.
Profanity? You haven't heard a f*ckin' thing yet.
(... and now you have moved your argument to installed base instead of actual phones sold in that quarter... oh, boy.)
PPS: My roommate just moved from the iPhone 4S to the 6. She was worried about the size. She is 5 feet tall and pretty much a member of the Lollipop Guild in every other way and she's fine with the 4.5" device. She says it doesn't feel any larger and definitely lighter than her 4S, so there is that.
Well, that's what I said to my Wife. That I would rather she got a 6 than move to the 5S, just for features sake. At that point, having observed touched, fondled, measured and done everything possible that she could with the 6, my Wife said that she was happy with her 4S and would think about it.
(I wish there was a way for Apple to remove those top and bottom bezels)
... and now I'm reading stories that smugglers have had to drop their prices in China because demand is low... cutting their prices in half.
I wonder if demand is low or people have heard the news about the official release date and are waiting?
The stories seem to indicate a drop happening that correlates pretty well with when the rumored local release dates started circulating. I'd guess mostly having to do with local release being imminent. Previous bouts of smuggling and black market sales took place when local release was not imminent and took a long time to occur (or were not possible at all) and before the largest carrier even had the iPhone.
I find it hard to believe that in Apple's first fiscal quarter of 2013 the iPhone 4S was selling more than 2 units for every one model of the flagship iPhone 5 for a given market.
Not by new device sales for that quarter, just current active install base by December 31. I see how everyone else was just talking about sales share within that quarter which I understand how on that point didn't make sense to island boy. I was trying to stick to shares on more solid metrics since we don't really get sales numbers broken out. Really all arrives at moot point anyway.
Not by new device sales for that quarter, just current active install base by December 31. I see how everyone else was just talking about sales share within that quarter which I understand how on that point didn't make sense to island boy. I was trying to stick to shares on more solid metrics since we don't really get sales numbers broken out. Really all arrives at moot point anyway.
No one expects the growth rate to be so high that the installed base for a brand new device with only one full quarter of sales is higher than devices that have been out for one or more years. The best metric to use is the quarterly sales numbers. If the iPhone 6 series is a market failure we would expect to see low adoption rates compared to previous iPhone releases for a give price point and/or capacity and/or capacity tier.
(I wish there was a way for Apple to remove those top and bottom bezels)
I think it's easy for them from an engineering standpoint, but I think they like the symmetry and/or think that front is too iconic to change. Personally I'd like to see a major revision in that area.
I measured my hand. I have Exactly average sized hands for an American male.
I have had little problem using my iPhone 6 Plus one-handed.
I was surprised how 'usable' it is.
I think most people aren't considering how the diagonal measure and the changes in the rest of the device affect usability. I think most only consider a 0.5" or 1.5" change then attribute that to its width for their current device thickness, side-bezel, and edge curve.
Comments
So... in other words... you used a number that shows absolutely no breakdown whatsoever, absolutely no idea whatsoever of 6+ sales, to prove your point? ... and you have the nerve to say that I am pulling numbers out of my ass.
Oh, boy...
I think you need to slow down and read, because obviously you missed my point. My point had nothing to do with the 6+ specifically (that was all you). My sole point was the 4in phone is dead. The 6 family is selling exceptionally well, underlining my point. I don't need breakouts, Apple telling me it broke all records, and looking at their developer tools provided to me is enough to see that. El Fin.
Apparently reading comprehension is as dead as the small phone.
I think you need to slow down and read, because obviously you missed my point. My point had nothing to do with the 6+ specifically (that was all you). My sole point was the 4in phone is dead. The 6 family is selling exceptionally well, underlining my point. I don't need breakouts, Apple telling me it broke all records, and looking at their developer tools provided to me is enough to see that. El Fin.
Apparently reading comprehension is as dead as the small phone.
Apparently reading comprehension is dead.
What you don't seem to get is that you are doing the exact same thing as me but you just don't get it.
You want us to believe that a hypothetical phone would not sell as well as the current phones... which is something that you do not know.
Let me speak slower for you...
If you had said:
"Apple is selling enough phones now that it probably makes no sense for them to go back to a 4" phone."
I might have agreed... but you said:
Quote:
To say it would have outsold the new 6 is just silly. All time records broken, 10 million in 4 days, ship dates out to November in some cases...come on.
To which I corrected you.
Apparently reading comprehension is dead.
What you don't seem to get is that you are doing the exact same thing as me but you just don't get it.
You want us to believe that a hypothetical phone would not sell as well as the current phones... which is something that you do not know.
It's not at all the same as it's not hypothetical. Apple does currently sell two small phones in the 5s and 5c. If people really were turned off by the bigger sizes, would we see record sales for bigger models? Where's the spike in 5s from the "I waited and don't like the new size so I bought a 5S instead" group? Any stats I have seen show the 5 family on a slow decline as the 6 picks up share, not flat or higher, which would support your position.
It's not at all the same as it's not hypothetical. Apple does currently sell two small phones in the 5s and 5c. If people really were turned off by the bigger sizes, would we see record sales for bigger models? Where's the spike in 5s from the "I waited and don't like the new size so I bought a 5S instead" group? Any stats I have seen show the 5 family on a slow decline as the 6 picks up share, not flat or higher, which would support your position.
Read my edited answer before this... and maybe you'll get it.
(one thing I am waiting for is the numbers from Cannacord in December or so. Wouldn't it be a shocker if the 5S was in the #2 spot and the 6+ in the #3 spot)
That would be interesting, and frankly not completely unexpected since the phablet category of devices have not been widely popular according to Google's own Android analytics, and the 5S is still the flagship device in many countries right now.
Read my edited answer before this... and maybe you'll get it.
You're now cherrypicking words and 'editing' posts which must mean you're running out replies. I stand by my original point, I meant 6 as 6 family of 6/6+ but not sure that even matters?
No it wouldn't be at all, in fact the 5S may very well still be #1 depending. Most people are not on a yearly upgrade cycle. The rise and fall of models is similar every year over their 24 month lifecycle, of course the most common long running model is going to out rank one released less than 2-3 months ago... That means nothing. What would have to happen is a stunted growth of the 6 (family) to see that decline trend trail off for the 5S and that will probably take longer than December. (Ok that one is a professional guess)
That would be interesting, and frankly not completely unexpected since the phablet category of devices have not been widely popular according to Google's own Android analytics, and the 5S is still the flagship device in many countries right now.
I keep on hearing these stories about how popular phablets (I'm talking about 5+ inch phones) are in other countries but then I see some of the numbers from analysts and they just don't jive with what I consider popular. Popular is selling 30 million+ phones of one type (ie: 5S) in a quarter... not 30 million phones in a year.
You're now cherrypicking words and 'editing' posts which must mean you're running out replies. I stand by my original point, I meant 6 as 6 family of 6/6+ but not sure that even matters?
No it wouldn't be at all, in fact the 5S may very well still be #1 depending. Most people are not on a yearly upgrade cycle. The rise and fall of models is similar every year over their 24 month lifecycle, of course the most common long running model is going to out rank one released less than 2-3 months ago... That means nothing. What would have to happen is a stunted growth of the 6 (family) to see that decline trend trail off for the 5S and that will probably take longer than December. (Ok that one is a professional guess)
Cherry picking? Are you shitting me. That was the exact part of your statement that I quoted. It sounds like you are back tracking on your 6 statement.
The 5S might be #1? Oh, boy. Now I know you really are shitting me.
So far the only thing I think I can predict with relative certainly is the iPhone 6 series will be the best selling 4.5"+ devices on the market.
Samsung was already showing signs of declining smartphone sales so I expect this to hit them hard over the next year.
PS: I could see the 4" returning next year. Sometimes removing something can make people realize how much they want it. This worked splendidly for Coke Classic sales.
PPS: My roommate just moved from the iPhone 4S to the 6. She was worried about the size. She is 5 feet tall and pretty much a member of the Lollipop Guild in every other way and she's fine with the 4.5" device. She says it doesn't feel any larger and definitely lighter than her 4S, so there is that.
Cherry picking? Are you shitting me. That was the exact part of your statement that I quoted. It sounds like you are back tracking on your 6 statement.
The 5S might be #1? Oh, boy. Now I know you really are shitting me.
I backtracked on nothing and I didn't immaturely resort to profanity either. Perhaps you have some growing up to do.
In December 2012, the 4S held a 40% share compared to the recently released iPhone 5's 18%. In December 2013, surprise similar numbers... so this year? Exactly. I suppose that's beyond a 4 letter word comprehension.
Sorry but this is just wrong small world view. Which market is Aplle still trying to conquer? ... China. What is the luxury market in China? Phablets. How can people afford Phablets? ... Because with a poor wired Internet infrastructure and a quickly growing wireless (LTE) infrastructure, Chinese middle class espouses computers and is built on tablets and Phablets. The truth is that these phones, especially the 6+, were not meant to entice current Apple phone owners to upgrade (a limiting market, especially since aa iPhone upgrade often cannibalizes entry iPhone sales because of pass down) they were meant to bring new users into the IOS fold. As most of the anti-Phablet comments seem to miss, current Apple products are satisfying most current iPhone owners and the highest growth market for Apple is people outside of the current iOS tent.
I have used all sorts of form factors in cell phones since the Motorola brick and have been using wireless data since the Handspring clip on GPRS modems. I have always been looking for devices that could provide data and voice capability on the go. Long ago, I went to using Bluetooth headsets, and have little use for raising a cell phone to my head - as a matter of fact, the most disappointing thing to me has been the lack of vox capability in the iOS tablets - for some reason, no one could fathom using an earpiece with a tablet and the enduring image of raising a 7" device to the head has been a marketing nightmare. For a long time, what I wanted was a completely minimalist cell phone run by vox dial and a tablet interface (actually, now with handoff, perhaps that is a possibility in the future.) The iPhone 6+ is a compromise product, but it allows me to carry just an iPhone and an iPad Air as opposed to carrying a phone and two tablet form factors (sorry, but I use a Mini because even the Air is tough to pull out when you are walking around).
If you are looking at going really portable, do as I do - get a BT headset plus a Pebble smart watch and leave the iPhone in your bag. Incoming calls (and texts) show up on the Pebble and you can answer your call and talk on the headset. And for those times that you need to text, appreciate the larger screen of the 6+'where the keyboard doesn't take up 2/3rds of the screen. Most of all, realize that the Earth does not revolve around you and that to continue to grow the iPhone business, Apple is going to build some products that will meet the needs of people that are different from you. Hopefully, in an upcoming refresh, Apple builds something that will better meet your needs, but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are part of the huge global market that Apple is currently chasing.
Installed base or marketahare for that quarter?
I find it hard to believe that in Apple's first fiscal quarter of 2013 the iPhone 4S was selling more than 2 units for every one model of the flagship iPhone 5 for a given market.
I backtracked on nothing and I didn't immaturely resort to profanity either. Perhaps you have some growing up to do.
In December 2012, the 4S held a 40% share compared to the recently released iPhone 5's 18%. In December 2013, surprise similar numbers... so this year? Exactly. I suppose that's beyond a 4 letter word comprehension.
Profanity? You haven't heard a f*ckin' thing yet.
(... and now you have moved your argument to installed base instead of actual phones sold in that quarter... oh, boy.)
PPS: My roommate just moved from the iPhone 4S to the 6. She was worried about the size. She is 5 feet tall and pretty much a member of the Lollipop Guild in every other way and she's fine with the 4.5" device. She says it doesn't feel any larger and definitely lighter than her 4S, so there is that.
Well, that's what I said to my Wife. That I would rather she got a 6 than move to the 5S, just for features sake. At that point, having observed touched, fondled, measured and done everything possible that she could with the 6, my Wife said that she was happy with her 4S and would think about it.
(I wish there was a way for Apple to remove those top and bottom bezels)
So far the only thing I think I can predict with relative certainly is the iPhone 6 series will be the best selling 4.5"+ devices on the market.
Samsung was already showing signs of declining smartphone sales so I expect this to hit them hard over the next year.
... and now I'm reading stories that smugglers have had to drop their prices in China because demand is low... cutting their prices in half.
I wonder if demand is low or people have heard the news about the official release date and are waiting?
Regardless... yes... will still sell better than Samsung's efforts... imo.
... and now I'm reading stories that smugglers have had to drop their prices in China because demand is low... cutting their prices in half.
I wonder if demand is low or people have heard the news about the official release date and are waiting?
The stories seem to indicate a drop happening that correlates pretty well with when the rumored local release dates started circulating. I'd guess mostly having to do with local release being imminent. Previous bouts of smuggling and black market sales took place when local release was not imminent and took a long time to occur (or were not possible at all) and before the largest carrier even had the iPhone.
Installed base of marketahare for that quarter?
I find it hard to believe that in Apple's first fiscal quarter of 2013 the iPhone 4S was selling more than 2 units for every one model of the flagship iPhone 5 for a given market.
Not by new device sales for that quarter, just current active install base by December 31. I see how everyone else was just talking about sales share within that quarter which I understand how on that point didn't make sense to island boy. I was trying to stick to shares on more solid metrics since we don't really get sales numbers broken out. Really all arrives at moot point anyway.
No one expects the growth rate to be so high that the installed base for a brand new device with only one full quarter of sales is higher than devices that have been out for one or more years. The best metric to use is the quarterly sales numbers. If the iPhone 6 series is a market failure we would expect to see low adoption rates compared to previous iPhone releases for a give price point and/or capacity and/or capacity tier.
I measured my hand. I have Exactly average sized hands for an American male.
I have had little problem using my iPhone 6 Plus one-handed.
I was surprised how 'usable' it is.
I think it's easy for them from an engineering standpoint, but I think they like the symmetry and/or think that front is too iconic to change. Personally I'd like to see a major revision in that area.
I think most people aren't considering how the diagonal measure and the changes in the rest of the device affect usability. I think most only consider a 0.5" or 1.5" change then attribute that to its width for their current device thickness, side-bezel, and edge curve.