There is no illegality in Ireland's corporate rate of 12.5%, its the extra incentives which are under investigation.
There's no blood investigation even necessary! It's all been transparent for years. Here's a write-up from last year when this came out. As you can see, nobody is denying "tax incentives" nor the reason why they did it, and why it was and continues to be successful for them.
Officials in Dublin, who have been playing host this week to the city’s huge Web Summit, like to stress the attractions other than taxes that have lured tech companies to Ireland, like being the Eurozone’s sole English-speaking country, and having the continent’s youngest population. The influx of U.S. companies into Ireland has been crucial for the country. “It’s the bedrock of our economy now,” says Barry O’Dowd, senior vice president for IDA’s emerging business division. “It has what has brought us out of the recession.”
But for multinationals, Ireland’s tax structure is a sweet deal. Among the benefits is a 25% cut on corporate tax bills if companies do R&D in Ireland. O’Dowd says many companies have benefited from those incentives, bringing their corporate tax rate down to “high single digits.” On Wednesday evening, nine smaller U.S. tech companies announced they were opening their European operations in Ireland, together hiring about 300 people.
While the Senate fumes about Apple’s small tax rates, Ireland — which is digging out from a deep recession — is not about to scrap all of its tax incentives any time soon. On Wednesday, Prime Minister Kenny told us journalists that “there is no question of letting Ireland’s tax rate be pressured,” for example, by raising its corporate tax rates.
??
If the explanation of EU law is correct the Irish government can be held accountable (fined) for illegal state aid in promoting anti-competitive practices, and going back up to 10 years.
Nice try but debt per capita is only one measurement of a countries health. You also need to factor in economic growth and stability along with gross domestic product (GDP). In case you hadn't noticed, the U.S. is doing far better economically than the EU.
You should have stopped here, because you are correct.
Further, the U.S. has dramatically increased debt over the last few years fighting wars on 3 fronts to stop global terrorism and protect you.
...in addition to continuing America's rather large military industrial complex for which a large portion of the economy is thankful for... something President and former General Eisenhower warned about...
Give it a rest.
....when you tell the whole story and don't make those of us pity you for half-an-argument's sake.
Just curious but it would be interesting to see what the
Quote:
Originally Posted by jguther
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost
Short story: the EU is broke; Apple isn't.
They want Apple's money by fair means or foul.
If the EU is broke, what is the US?
per capita debt:
US: 39k€
Italy: 33k€
France: 29k€
Greece: 27k€
Germany: 26k€
UK: 26k€
Portugal: 19k€
Spain: 19k€
The old line about "Figures don't lie but liars sure know how to figure" sure comes to mind here.
When you try to compare per capita debt without looking at things like personal & corporate taxes rates, govt spending, foreign aid (both humanitarian and military), GDP, long term versus short term debt and dozens of other factors it is quite disingenuous - why do you think the economists can't agree on the current condition much less project a few hearts out? Looking at the relative indebtedness based on some per capita crap is like a weatherman looking out the window and trying to give you a 7 day forecast.
The bizarre part of this is that no other EU entity is willing to cut taxes to match Ireland. If they did this, they might actually see businesses relocating to THEIR country. What a notion... Be competitive!
If the explanation of EU law is correct the Irish government can be held accountable (fined) for illegal state aid in promoting anti-competitive practices, and going back up to 10 years.
Yeah I know. Mine isn't GG either, nor is Solipsism Soli. Just didn't feel like typing your entire name out but if it bothers you I'll do so from now on.
“I’m paying my taxes.”
“NO WE WANT MORE TAXES”
“Okay, you’ll have to change your laws to collect a higher percentage of tax going forward.”
“NO WE WANT MORE TAXES FROM THE TIME YOU’VE ALREADY BEEN PAYING”
“What?”
“YOU WILL GIVE US MORE MONEY FROM THE PAST BECAUSE YOU WEREN’T GIVING US ENOUGH THEN”
“No, I was paying the legal amount.”
“THAT DOESN’T MATTER YOU WEREN’T PAYING ENOUGH BECAUSE WE SAY SO YOU NEED TO PAY MORE NOW”
I don’t know how you people can stand it.
Apple could easily join with a group of businesses and investors and BUY a country and craft their own no-tax legal structure. That this hasn't yet been done yet is (for me) somewhat surprising.
I would ask you to explain in little more detail but of course you wouldn't. You never do.
To give you an example:
the way in which whenever there's an issue pertaining to privacy that seems positive to Apple and negative to Google, you do your best to make the companies appear very similar, as though the only difference between them is superficial, when in fact the difference is fundamental.
the way in which whenever there's an issue pertaining to privacy that seems positive to Apple and negative to Google, you do your best to make the companies appear very similar, as though the only difference between them is superficial, when in fact the difference is fundamental.
Hardly an example of goalpost moving but I understand what you're saying. In all honesty many times the differences in actual privacy protection IS largely superficial IMO, and sometimes it isn't. Granted tho that Google has an interest in making their advertising services as valuable as they can. I can't think of a search provider who doesn't rely on ad revenue to make it possible. Some like DuckDuckGo don't get as detailed by collecting data from your searches but then they piggyback on Bing in a lot of cases (and MS is very happy to oblige) rather than doing their own work so it's probably not nearly as expensive to maintain.
Apple could easily join with a group of businesses and investors and BUY a country and craft their own no-tax legal structure. That this hasn't yet been done yet is (for me) somewhat surprising.
Or Apple could just move operations to Uruguay.
OMG! You read my thoughts! I was going to post the exact same thing... but thought it was "too out there" for a serious discussion... especially coming from me(!)
*** I did happen to hint at this in a post a few weeks ago, when i thought Apple should consider getting sovereign state status in Cupertino when the Mothership is finished. Kinda like the Vatican. I'd rather not go into the "cult" side of that silly idea.
Apple could easily join with a group of businesses and investors and BUY a country and craft their own no-tax legal structure. That this hasn't yet been done yet is (for me) somewhat surprising.
Or Apple could just move operations to Uruguay.
OMG! You read my thoughts! I was going to post the exact same thing... but thought it was "too out there" for a serious discussion... especially coming from me(!)
*** I did happen to hint at this in a post a few weeks ago, when i thought Apple should consider getting sovereign state status in Cupertino when the Mothership is finished. Kinda like the Vatican. I'd rather not go into the "cult" side of that silly idea.
They could invent their own currency: 100 pips to the Apple.
Hardly an example of goalpost moving but I understand what you're saying. In all honesty many times the differences in actual privacy protection IS largely superficial IMO, and sometimes it isn't. Granted tho that Google has an interest in making their advertising services as valuable as they can. I can't think of a search provider who doesn't rely on ad revenue to make it possible. Some like DuckDuckGo don't get as detailed by collecting data from your searches but then they piggyback on Bing in a lot of cases (and MS is very happy to oblige) rather than doing their own work so it's probably not nearly as expensive to maintain.
BTW: you brought up the point a while back that Google assigned the PageRank patent to Stanford for an exclusive license. That's verifiable, but i was unable to find the date when the patent would expire, if it even will, and if it would become available then for any other company to use.
Note: Hierarchical search is officially dead. Yahoo killed the last categorized search page over the weekend. Long live metadata search and file organization...:p
They could invent their own currency: 100 pips to the Apple.
For clarity... you mean "seeds"... correct? Jony Apple Seeds then by any chance? People can already start to bitch about the rounded, flat corners and color... sorry... colour choices.
Edit: and would they be out of Aluminium, LiquidMetal, sapphire, or unapologetic plastic? Or all of the above?
No, the Irish declared income is small. APple are using a Dutch Irish trick so most of their income has zero corporate tax. That means they paid zero UK and German tax instead of 21% and 30% respectively.
It would be sensible for the EU to more than claw this back on behalf of the countries concerned.
For clarity... you mean "seeds"... correct? Jony Apple Seeds then by any chance? People can already start to bitch about the rounded, flat corners and color... sorry... colour choices.
Edit: and would they be out of Aluminium, LiquidMetal, sapphire, or unapologetic plastic? Or all of the above?
I'm thinking rather "bit-seeds"... credit payable in "flesh", stolen or real.
Comments
There's no blood investigation even necessary! It's all been transparent for years. Here's a write-up from last year when this came out. As you can see, nobody is denying "tax incentives" nor the reason why they did it, and why it was and continues to be successful for them.
Quote from the complete Fortune article here. Highlighted quotes are mine:
Officials in Dublin, who have been playing host this week to the city’s huge Web Summit, like to stress the attractions other than taxes that have lured tech companies to Ireland, like being the Eurozone’s sole English-speaking country, and having the continent’s youngest population. The influx of U.S. companies into Ireland has been crucial for the country. “It’s the bedrock of our economy now,” says Barry O’Dowd, senior vice president for IDA’s emerging business division. “It has what has brought us out of the recession.”
But for multinationals, Ireland’s tax structure is a sweet deal. Among the benefits is a 25% cut on corporate tax bills if companies do R&D in Ireland. O’Dowd says many companies have benefited from those incentives, bringing their corporate tax rate down to “high single digits.” On Wednesday evening, nine smaller U.S. tech companies announced they were opening their European operations in Ireland, together hiring about 300 people.
While the Senate fumes about Apple’s small tax rates, Ireland — which is digging out from a deep recession — is not about to scrap all of its tax incentives any time soon. On Wednesday, Prime Minister Kenny told us journalists that “there is no question of letting Ireland’s tax rate be pressured,” for example, by raising its corporate tax rates.
.... anti-competitive agreements ....
Goalpost, meet mover.
(Fixed typo)
AnantKSundaram, meet your failure to read.
You should have stopped here, because you are correct.
...in addition to continuing America's rather large military industrial complex for which a large portion of the economy is thankful for... something President and former General Eisenhower warned about...
....when you tell the whole story and don't make those of us pity you for half-an-argument's sake.
Short story: the EU is broke; Apple isn't.
They want Apple's money by fair means or foul.
If the EU is broke, what is the US?
per capita debt:
US: 39k€
Italy: 33k€
France: 29k€
Greece: 27k€
Germany: 26k€
UK: 26k€
Portugal: 19k€
Spain: 19k€
Just curious but it would be interesting to see what the
Short story: the EU is broke; Apple isn't.
They want Apple's money by fair means or foul.
If the EU is broke, what is the US?
per capita debt:
US: 39k€
Italy: 33k€
France: 29k€
Greece: 27k€
Germany: 26k€
UK: 26k€
Portugal: 19k€
Spain: 19k€
The old line about "Figures don't lie but liars sure know how to figure" sure comes to mind here.
When you try to compare per capita debt without looking at things like personal & corporate taxes rates, govt spending, foreign aid (both humanitarian and military), GDP, long term versus short term debt and dozens of other factors it is quite disingenuous - why do you think the economists can't agree on the current condition much less project a few hearts out? Looking at the relative indebtedness based on some per capita crap is like a weatherman looking out the window and trying to give you a 7 day forecast.
EU can't force Ireland to do jack sheet.
??
If the explanation of EU law is correct the Irish government can be held accountable (fined) for illegal state aid in promoting anti-competitive practices, and going back up to 10 years.
A plain English explanation can be read here:
http://euobserver.com/news/123083
Anand, meet your failure to read.
Some day, you'll figure out 'context.'
Btw, my name is not 'Anand'.
Yeah I know. Mine isn't GG either, nor is Solipsism Soli. Just didn't feel like typing your entire name out but if it bothers you I'll do so from now on.
lol, Europe.
“I’m paying my taxes.”
“NO WE WANT MORE TAXES”
“Okay, you’ll have to change your laws to collect a higher percentage of tax going forward.”
“NO WE WANT MORE TAXES FROM THE TIME YOU’VE ALREADY BEEN PAYING”
“What?”
“YOU WILL GIVE US MORE MONEY FROM THE PAST BECAUSE YOU WEREN’T GIVING US ENOUGH THEN”
“No, I was paying the legal amount.”
“THAT DOESN’T MATTER YOU WEREN’T PAYING ENOUGH BECAUSE WE SAY SO YOU NEED TO PAY MORE NOW”
I don’t know how you people can stand it.
Apple could easily join with a group of businesses and investors and BUY a country and craft their own no-tax legal structure. That this hasn't yet been done yet is (for me) somewhat surprising.
Or Apple could just move operations to Uruguay.
thats only one side of the equation.
What about ASSETS in the USA?
I'm pretty sure the average american has WAY MORE ASSETS than EU
Someone may have $200k in debt (home mortgage) but I also have $500k in Assets in the USA
You would be wrong...
http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/11/news/economy/middle-class-wealth/
Oh the sheer irony of you making that statement.
I would ask you to explain in little more detail but of course you wouldn't. You never do.
To give you an example:
the way in which whenever there's an issue pertaining to privacy that seems positive to Apple and negative to Google, you do your best to make the companies appear very similar, as though the only difference between them is superficial, when in fact the difference is fundamental.
Hardly an example of goalpost moving but I understand what you're saying. In all honesty many times the differences in actual privacy protection IS largely superficial IMO, and sometimes it isn't. Granted tho that Google has an interest in making their advertising services as valuable as they can. I can't think of a search provider who doesn't rely on ad revenue to make it possible. Some like DuckDuckGo don't get as detailed by collecting data from your searches but then they piggyback on Bing in a lot of cases (and MS is very happy to oblige) rather than doing their own work so it's probably not nearly as expensive to maintain.
OMG! You read my thoughts! I was going to post the exact same thing... but thought it was "too out there" for a serious discussion... especially coming from me(!)
*** I did happen to hint at this in a post a few weeks ago, when i thought Apple should consider getting sovereign state status in Cupertino when the Mothership is finished. Kinda like the Vatican. I'd rather not go into the "cult" side of that silly idea.
AnantKSundaram, meet your failure to read.
Btw, my name is not 'Anand'.
Yeah I know...
Ah, the irony..... 'failure to read', indeed....
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Apple could easily join with a group of businesses and investors and BUY a country and craft their own no-tax legal structure. That this hasn't yet been done yet is (for me) somewhat surprising.
Or Apple could just move operations to Uruguay.
OMG! You read my thoughts! I was going to post the exact same thing... but thought it was "too out there" for a serious discussion... especially coming from me(!)
*** I did happen to hint at this in a post a few weeks ago, when i thought Apple should consider getting sovereign state status in Cupertino when the Mothership is finished. Kinda like the Vatican. I'd rather not go into the "cult" side of that silly idea.
They could invent their own currency: 100 pips to the Apple.
BTW: you brought up the point a while back that Google assigned the PageRank patent to Stanford for an exclusive license. That's verifiable, but i was unable to find the date when the patent would expire, if it even will, and if it would become available then for any other company to use.
Note: Hierarchical search is officially dead. Yahoo killed the last categorized search page over the weekend. Long live metadata search and file organization...:p
Edit: and would they be out of Aluminium, LiquidMetal, sapphire, or unapologetic plastic? Or all of the above?
That means they paid zero UK and German tax instead of 21% and 30% respectively.
It would be sensible for the EU to more than claw this back on behalf of the countries concerned.
I'm thinking rather "bit-seeds"... credit payable in "flesh", stolen or real.