It is the EU's OPINION that Apple is receiving AID. Lets see if that stands up in court (of course it won't). An expert on the situation said this could take 5-10 years to be resolved. But the EU basically has ZERO chance of winning because the arrangement was in place since 1990 (friken 24 years ago!) yet they do nothing till now? If what Apple/Ireland was truly illegal its the EU that should also be fined for not doing there job and taking almost 25 years to 'uncover' the illegal activity.
This is 100% POLITICAL. The EU commissioners are up for re-election and their terms are about to end. They just want to show that they were doing something with the tens of millions they have been paid.
The EU can suck on a Cock (rooster). They have no power and they know it. If they somehow magically win this case every single Corporation headquarter in the EU will pull out. It would totally tank the EU when that happens. They know this, everyone does. No corporation will want to be in the EU if they can magically force you to pay MORE TAXES than you were LEGALLY OBLIGATED to. And the EU has the right to go back 25 YEARS!!! No way. NO F'ing way.
That about sums it up, it is just a dog an pony show for the people the EU. The EU is in a world of hurt right now and if they attempt to take action on Apple there will be such a ripple effect that they could not afford it. They are basically warning Ireland to change their evil ways or else. I also pointed out the fact the deal with Ireland and Apple predates the EU, thus they have not aurthority over the deal. Now if Ireland enter in to a new deal then there could be an issue. But at this point Ireland could care less since Apple has pored more money into their economy than the EU delivered.
If the Greedy EU decide to do away with these arrangements then the advantages of Apple/Google etc become no advantage at all so they will just relocate back to USA and the EU countries will get nothing.
This way Ireland for one gets something it needs, take that away and the EU finances will be in trouble.
Thats just one take gloomy but if I was a CEO of one of these companies I would rather pay tax to my own government if there was no financial advantage to be in a foreign country.
They are basically warning Ireland to change their evil ways or else. I also pointed out the fact the deal with Ireland and Apple predates the EU, thus they have not aurthority over the deal. Now if Ireland enter in to a new deal then there could be an issue. But at this point Ireland could care less since Apple has pored more money into their economy than the EU delivered.
They have done new deals, the most recent in 2007 I think, tho it could have been 2010
I think the tax situation in Ireland is unacceptable. Companies like Microsoft, Apple and Google do not pay enough tax. The fact that Apple is sitting on $150 Billion which it does not know what to spend on says it all.
The so called 'deals' that happened FRICKEN 25 years ago! Yes its so illegal that Apple was given lower tax rates in exchange for providing Ireland THOUSANDS OF JOBS. So illegal.
Not to mention that Ireland receives tax income from Apple that they probably would not have received otherwise. I guess that's why they're a "burden on Irish taxpayers" according to the EU.
Heck, I would love a multi-billion dollar company setting up an office in my backyard if it means they could be such a "burden" on my taxes!
I read through the whole document. No where did it say the European Commission would fine Apple. It requested that Ireland forward the document to Apple and ask Apple to send bunch of agreements between the various subsidiaries. This isn't new either. It was sent to the Irish government in June and only made public now.
Where do you get Apple paying 25% corp tax? Provisioning is not the same as writing the check. With most of Apple's revenue derived from overseas operations, and largely filtered thru special tax arrangements with Singapore in the East (China, Australia, New Zealand, etc) before joining up with the western revenue landing in 2% (or zero depending) Ireland I don't see any possibility that Apple has actually PAID a tax rate of 25%.
EU is toothless. If they go hard at Ireland than Ireland will take this to the higher courts where EU has no power. Even if the EU some how wins you will see a MASS EXODUS of Big Corporations leaving the EU. They would take away HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of jobs from the EU.
Why on earth would a large corp want to be headquarter in the EU that has the right to DEMAND MORE TAXES THAN LEGALLY OBILIGATED? AND THE POWER TO GO BACK 25 YEARS? No friken way. Even the IRS does not have that power against normal US citizens. You think the EU can do that to a $600B corp? No way.
EU can cry all they want. Bottom line is they did NOTHING for 25 years. The higher court will throw this out as fast as you throw out a steaming pile of sheet in your kitchen.
This is exactly why a large amount of the UKwish to leave the EU. We are feed up of the bs, and laws being forced upon us that we don't want or need. I heard you have to go on a training Class that teaches you How to use a ladder. Why? Because the EU says so.
When you think about the abuses by governments with the incomprehensible gross mismanagement of tax revenues, resulting in a continuing, insatiable appetite to take more and more for their own reasons of control, I cannot ever get upset at any company or individual who works to minimize the tax they have to pay.
If there were serious spending reforms at all levels, cleansing systems from ridiculous expenditures, redundancy, lack of fiscal oversight, financial cronyism, political payoffs and more, then you'd likely see governments are already collecting far too much from individuals and businesses, not that they need more.
I think the tax situation in Ireland is unacceptable. Companies like Microsoft, Apple and Google do not pay enough tax. The fact that Apple is sitting on $150 Billion which it does not know what to spend on says it all.
how absurd. apple is one of if not the highest tax paying corp in America. 1 in 40 dollars comes from them.
unlike, say, GE and others that weasel into paying negative (get money back).
Apple is wealthy because they sell a lot of devices.
From Apple's 10-K you find "Income before provision for income taxes 55,763". Now under taxes paid you get this figure: "Cash paid for income taxes, net 7,682" Divide one by the other and tell me how you get 25% from that.
So where did Cook get his 30% plus tax rate claim that he testified to in the Senate? Technically it was not a lie. They did, but that 30% rate was based on US pre-tax income of around $19B. It ignores the other 2/3's of Apple's worldwide profit, for the most part flowing thru Ireland where the tax rate varies from 2% to zero depending on which Apple company is accounting for it.
From what I read the real worldwide tax-rate is closer to 14%, perhaps even lower, and has been for a few years.
I think the tax situation in Ireland is unacceptable. Companies like Microsoft, Apple and Google do not pay enough tax. The fact that Apple is sitting on $150 Billion which it does not know what to spend on says it all.
two different problems.
1) we are a global economy with multiple taxing jurisdictions. Local, State, Country, and in the EU's case, Extra-Sovreign.
Taxes are an expense of doing business. Just like salaries, health benefits, workman's comp, (those first 3, anyone complaining about the price of an iPhone because it's made in China?) sales and marketing, etc. When you're talking billions in revenue, the difference of 35% to 5% is serious enough to build an Double Dutch Irish Latte with a Carribean twist cash flow 'assembly line' to optimize profits.
Fixing this isn't simple, unless you want to upset 2 millennia of rules pertaining to the sovereignty of the State. (Remember the US fought a war over this to free itself from foreign taxation. You think Ireland wants to collect taxes to send to the US, or change it's own laws because some other country says it's not fair?)
Apple is doing what is economically correct. Generate profits the most efficient way possible, with a balance between risk, and conservatism.
2) $150 billion is a problem only in that it's hard to gain an investment that carries more than 20% ROI, which is it's average margin, so whatever they can think up that they can sell factoring market demand, is pretty much met... so then it's investing it, and it's hard to get a safe investment over 2% nowadays. [what it's (the reason why Apple is investing (buybacks) in itself, better than than the bank (1%). Apple Stock is returning 2%. Double the 'market'. Apple is borrowing at less than 1% (like near zero%) to buy that back [using those overseas assets as collateral]. It's a classic play. Can't use them to spend, but you can use them to borrow at nearly prime rates.
And you want to be ready to buy/invest a $100M-$1B company quickly. Again, at current interest rates, buying back $10B in stock actually generates $200M annually (dividend savings), so that's actually a 'play' to acquire the average size company. This nest egg is 'actively' used to back fund it's acquisitions, in the U.S. and abroad. Then you actually start to play arbitrage with your own money, as the US Dollar, the Yen, and the Euro or Irish pound play in the global markets, you counter invest to keep the keel even.
It's a crazy game, but once you get above the $100B range, it's how the game is played.
(Look at the 'reinsurance' market. Not the insurance market, but the companies insuring the insurance companies... Slow and steady 2-5% ROI on Trillions of 'old money')(Even lower and slower... look at the ultimate capital markets, e.g. The Federal Reserve and the European Central banks, these aren't owned by governments... they are 'corporations' owned by 'private banks').
I seriously doubt Apple, Google, or any tech Titan on that scale is paying the max tax rate anywhere especially with access to the best tax technicians money can buy. So the $8 billion figure is for shock value at best. It has been notated on the web that most companies with ties to Ireland pay much less than 12%. Wow, I was expecting to see some hard evidence of some sweetheart deal. Not, the EU stating we believe apple owes more money because they are able to find loopholes that are available to every company.
It depends on which portions of the arrangement they are targetting. Double Irish with a Dutch sandwich is used by many corporations, not just Apple- and hopefully the EU finds a good way to close the loopholes. As long as the loopholes are there the companies are not doing anything wrong, and nobody is accusing Apple of doing anything wrong.
What I would guess they may be addressing is the special deal Apple made with Ireland. Most companies doing the double irish then send their funds to the Cayman Islands to offshore, because of a special tax agreement they have. You may recall Tim Cook telling congress emphatically "Apple does not hold money on a Caribbean island, does not have a bank account in the Cayman Islands,.." This is careful wording and a true statement by Tim. It is designed to give the impression Apple doesn't offshore when in reality the only part of 'traditional' offshoring Apple did not due is the part where they move money to the Caymans. Instead they had a special loophole with the Irish government. The Irish law that governs tax rate had a statement in it about companies 'on Irish soil' Apple came up with "Apple Operations International" which has no employees, and no physical presence. It is therefore not on Irish soil. It is that entity that has all the money and was taxed at even less than the normal Irish rate. Under pressure Ireland was already forced to close that specific loophole. If that is what the EU is targetting, it is largely Apple only that will be affected- not the traditional Caymaners.
The part about:
Apple is proud of its long history in Ireland and the 4,000 people we employ in Cork. They serve our customers through manufacturing, tech support and other important functions...
...as well as showing an actual physical building in Ireland- is largely a PR smokescreen. It is a true statement, and Apple does have operations in Ireland that were taxed at the normal Irish rate, but that is in no way shape or form the same as the fictitious entity 'Apple Operations International' which handles the bulk of Apple's money and has no buildings nor employees.
Apple pays 25% on the USA because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. The sales made in the USA gets taxed. They can't avoid it.
The big corps in the EU can easily move to South America or various Islands. Apple has already done this on a small scale. There are litterally DOZENS of countires that will fall over themself to house big corps to exchange for jobs and even a 1% tax rate would net them hundreds of millions.
And look at the COMBINED tax rate for Apple, Microsoft, Google, ect.. Apple pays the highest percentage tax by far and the MOST tax dollars by far.
And why should Corps get taxed such high rates in the first place?
Apples tax rate is about 25% over the entire company.
But then the earnings get distributed to employees. They get TAXED ANOTHER 25-50%!!! So the combined tax rate is 50-75%!!!! Isn't that enough!
Investors also get taxed TWICE. Dividends get taxed from 15-25% and capital gains from 15-30%. Again the combined tax is over 50%!!!
How much fuking tax do you need! Apple is not the problem. Its the waste of government funds and the corruption. By raising taxes on Apple all you are doing is allowing politicans to have MORE money to bribe and give to their crownies.
Higher taxes for Apple will also mean HIGHER prices for consumers.
Just stop.
Well said. I agree with you. How much taxes is enough. Not quite the same but Ancient Rome over taxed the citizens too. Look how that ended. These corrupt politicians claiming they got our backs but stuffing they pockets instead are f**king leeches.
Yes, I can hear the conversation in Apple's board rooms grow excited. "Oh my gosh! I just read this letter from the EU. Does this mean we've been saving $9 billion dollars a year in taxes? Amazing, I never realized that. I thought we were just doing this Irish thing because we like those "4,000 people we employ in Cork."
That's, of course, nonsense. Apple knew precisely what it was doing. At issue is whether it needed a bit of illegal assistance from the Irish government to do that. If this loophole has a nasty gotcha like that, Apple and the other giant tax-evaders may be in trouble.
Hints that the EU won't pursue back taxes may come with a cost. Those companies may have to agree not to replace this loophole with another. Money they earn in a country will have to pay taxes in that country. That's only fair, because that's what the vast majority of businesses have to do.
Never forget that there no free lunch with taxes any more than there is with income. Because Apple et al aren't paying these taxes, a host of little businesses are getting stuck with making up the difference.
And never forget that the "comprehensive corporate tax reform" that Apple brings up is irrelevant. No corporate taxes laws forced Apple to use these loopholes. It's not a crime to pay the taxes that Apple has been avoiding.
Apple's Provision for Taxes (i.e., the amount of taxes that it thinks it owes, but hasn't sent a check yet, since different countries have different payment dates) for the first nine months is ~$10.9B or over 25%. Actual Cash Taxes Paid is ~$8.1B, or about 20% (nowhere near the 14% nonsense you claim). There will be some convergence of the two numbers by the end of the FY.
You really need to take a step back and ask yourself why you continue to be so relentlessly negative and pessimistic about Apple, constantly shading facts and data to suit some weird agenda. Especially for a guy whose tagline claims to be 'the supplier of truth'....
Apple pays 25% on the USA because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. The sales made in the USA gets taxed. They can't avoid it.
The big corps in the EU can easily move to South America or various Islands. Apple has already done this on a small scale. There are litterally DOZENS of countires that will fall over themself to house big corps to exchange for jobs and even a 1% tax rate would net them hundreds of millions.
And look at the COMBINED tax rate for Apple, Microsoft, Google, ect.. Apple pays the highest percentage tax by far and the MOST tax dollars by far.
And why should Corps get taxed such high rates in the first place?
Apples tax rate is about 25% over the entire company.
But then the earnings get distributed to employees. They get TAXED ANOTHER 25-50%!!! So the combined tax rate is 50-75%!!!! Isn't that enough!
Investors also get taxed TWICE. Dividends get taxed from 15-25% and capital gains from 15-30%. Again the combined tax is over 50%!!!
How much fuking tax do you need! Apple is not the problem. Its the waste of government funds and the corruption. By raising taxes on Apple all you are doing is allowing politicans to have MORE money to bribe and give to their crownies.
Higher taxes for Apple will also mean HIGHER prices for consumers.
Just stop.
you cannot just add 25-50% to get 50-75%. do you honestly believe apple is taxed 75% off the top?
Yes, I can hear the conversation in Apple's board rooms grow excited. "Oh my gosh! I just read this letter from the EU. Does this mean we've been saving $9 billion dollars a year in taxes? Amazing, I never realized that. I thought we were just doing this Irish thing because we like those "4,000 people we employ in Cork."
That's, of course, nonsense. Apple knew precisely what it was doing. At issue is whether it needed a bit of illegal assistance from the Irish government to do that. If this loophole has a nasty gotcha like that, Apple and the other giant tax-evaders may be in trouble.
Do you drive past cheaper gas stations to go to a more expensive one? Or do you drive past the more expensive ones to get to a cheaper station? Why?
Nations have a Right to set their own tax laws as part of their national sovereignty. Everyone else, including businesses, has a natural right to order their own affairs for their own benefit within those laws.
The EU is just sore because Ireland is outcompeting them for business (taxes), so they're trying to tell Ireland to raise their prices. That's exactly like telling gas stations they have to raise prices because one of the stations want to make more money. That is simply wrong.
Comments
EU can't do jack sheet.
It is the EU's OPINION that Apple is receiving AID. Lets see if that stands up in court (of course it won't). An expert on the situation said this could take 5-10 years to be resolved. But the EU basically has ZERO chance of winning because the arrangement was in place since 1990 (friken 24 years ago!) yet they do nothing till now? If what Apple/Ireland was truly illegal its the EU that should also be fined for not doing there job and taking almost 25 years to 'uncover' the illegal activity.
This is 100% POLITICAL. The EU commissioners are up for re-election and their terms are about to end. They just want to show that they were doing something with the tens of millions they have been paid.
The EU can suck on a Cock (rooster). They have no power and they know it. If they somehow magically win this case every single Corporation headquarter in the EU will pull out. It would totally tank the EU when that happens. They know this, everyone does. No corporation will want to be in the EU if they can magically force you to pay MORE TAXES than you were LEGALLY OBLIGATED to. And the EU has the right to go back 25 YEARS!!! No way. NO F'ing way.
That about sums it up, it is just a dog an pony show for the people the EU. The EU is in a world of hurt right now and if they attempt to take action on Apple there will be such a ripple effect that they could not afford it. They are basically warning Ireland to change their evil ways or else. I also pointed out the fact the deal with Ireland and Apple predates the EU, thus they have not aurthority over the deal. Now if Ireland enter in to a new deal then there could be an issue. But at this point Ireland could care less since Apple has pored more money into their economy than the EU delivered.
Does anyone else find it mildly suspect that the public release of the letter is now?
The letter was sent in June, 3 months ago. Why now? Why today?
The recent events around Apple stink of desperate stock manipulation.
If the Greedy EU decide to do away with these arrangements then the advantages of Apple/Google etc become no advantage at all so they will just relocate back to USA and the EU countries will get nothing.
This way Ireland for one gets something it needs, take that away and the EU finances will be in trouble.
Thats just one take gloomy but if I was a CEO of one of these companies I would rather pay tax to my own government if there was no financial advantage to be in a foreign country.
Yes I know its more complex than that.
I think the tax situation in Ireland is unacceptable. Companies like Microsoft, Apple and Google do not pay enough tax. The fact that Apple is sitting on $150 Billion which it does not know what to spend on says it all.
Why are you so greedy?
The so called 'deals' that happened FRICKEN 25 years ago! Yes its so illegal that Apple was given lower tax rates in exchange for providing Ireland THOUSANDS OF JOBS. So illegal.
Not to mention that Ireland receives tax income from Apple that they probably would not have received otherwise. I guess that's why they're a "burden on Irish taxpayers" according to the EU.
Heck, I would love a multi-billion dollar company setting up an office in my backyard if it means they could be such a "burden" on my taxes!
I read through the whole document. No where did it say the European Commission would fine Apple. It requested that Ireland forward the document to Apple and ask Apple to send bunch of agreements between the various subsidiaries. This isn't new either. It was sent to the Irish government in June and only made public now.
Where do you get Apple paying 25% corp tax? Provisioning is not the same as writing the check. With most of Apple's revenue derived from overseas operations, and largely filtered thru special tax arrangements with Singapore in the East (China, Australia, New Zealand, etc) before joining up with the western revenue landing in 2% (or zero depending) Ireland I don't see any possibility that Apple has actually PAID a tax rate of 25%.
This is exactly why a large amount of the UKwish to leave the EU. We are feed up of the bs, and laws being forced upon us that we don't want or need. I heard you have to go on a training Class that teaches you How to use a ladder. Why? Because the EU says so.
If there were serious spending reforms at all levels, cleansing systems from ridiculous expenditures, redundancy, lack of fiscal oversight, financial cronyism, political payoffs and more, then you'd likely see governments are already collecting far too much from individuals and businesses, not that they need more.
how absurd. apple is one of if not the highest tax paying corp in America. 1 in 40 dollars comes from them.
unlike, say, GE and others that weasel into paying negative (get money back).
Apple is wealthy because they sell a lot of devices.
OK. Take 2012 as an example
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000119312512444068/d411355d10k.htm
From Apple's 10-K you find "Income before provision for income taxes 55,763". Now under taxes paid you get this figure: "Cash paid for income taxes, net 7,682" Divide one by the other and tell me how you get 25% from that.
So where did Cook get his 30% plus tax rate claim that he testified to in the Senate? Technically it was not a lie. They did, but that 30% rate was based on US pre-tax income of around $19B. It ignores the other 2/3's of Apple's worldwide profit, for the most part flowing thru Ireland where the tax rate varies from 2% to zero depending on which Apple company is accounting for it.
From what I read the real worldwide tax-rate is closer to 14%, perhaps even lower, and has been for a few years.
I think the tax situation in Ireland is unacceptable. Companies like Microsoft, Apple and Google do not pay enough tax. The fact that Apple is sitting on $150 Billion which it does not know what to spend on says it all.
two different problems.
1) we are a global economy with multiple taxing jurisdictions. Local, State, Country, and in the EU's case, Extra-Sovreign.
Taxes are an expense of doing business. Just like salaries, health benefits, workman's comp, (those first 3, anyone complaining about the price of an iPhone because it's made in China?) sales and marketing, etc. When you're talking billions in revenue, the difference of 35% to 5% is serious enough to build an Double Dutch Irish Latte with a Carribean twist cash flow 'assembly line' to optimize profits.
Fixing this isn't simple, unless you want to upset 2 millennia of rules pertaining to the sovereignty of the State. (Remember the US fought a war over this to free itself from foreign taxation. You think Ireland wants to collect taxes to send to the US, or change it's own laws because some other country says it's not fair?)
Apple is doing what is economically correct. Generate profits the most efficient way possible, with a balance between risk, and conservatism.
2) $150 billion is a problem only in that it's hard to gain an investment that carries more than 20% ROI, which is it's average margin, so whatever they can think up that they can sell factoring market demand, is pretty much met... so then it's investing it, and it's hard to get a safe investment over 2% nowadays. [what it's (the reason why Apple is investing (buybacks) in itself, better than than the bank (1%). Apple Stock is returning 2%. Double the 'market'. Apple is borrowing at less than 1% (like near zero%) to buy that back [using those overseas assets as collateral]. It's a classic play. Can't use them to spend, but you can use them to borrow at nearly prime rates.
And you want to be ready to buy/invest a $100M-$1B company quickly. Again, at current interest rates, buying back $10B in stock actually generates $200M annually (dividend savings), so that's actually a 'play' to acquire the average size company. This nest egg is 'actively' used to back fund it's acquisitions, in the U.S. and abroad. Then you actually start to play arbitrage with your own money, as the US Dollar, the Yen, and the Euro or Irish pound play in the global markets, you counter invest to keep the keel even.
It's a crazy game, but once you get above the $100B range, it's how the game is played.
(Look at the 'reinsurance' market. Not the insurance market, but the companies insuring the insurance companies... Slow and steady 2-5% ROI on Trillions of 'old money')(Even lower and slower... look at the ultimate capital markets, e.g. The Federal Reserve and the European Central banks, these aren't owned by governments... they are 'corporations' owned by 'private banks').
I seriously doubt Apple, Google, or any tech Titan on that scale is paying the max tax rate anywhere especially with access to the best tax technicians money can buy. So the $8 billion figure is for shock value at best. It has been notated on the web that most companies with ties to Ireland pay much less than 12%. Wow, I was expecting to see some hard evidence of some sweetheart deal. Not, the EU stating we believe apple owes more money because they are able to find loopholes that are available to every company.
It depends on which portions of the arrangement they are targetting. Double Irish with a Dutch sandwich is used by many corporations, not just Apple- and hopefully the EU finds a good way to close the loopholes. As long as the loopholes are there the companies are not doing anything wrong, and nobody is accusing Apple of doing anything wrong.
What I would guess they may be addressing is the special deal Apple made with Ireland. Most companies doing the double irish then send their funds to the Cayman Islands to offshore, because of a special tax agreement they have. You may recall Tim Cook telling congress emphatically "Apple does not hold money on a Caribbean island, does not have a bank account in the Cayman Islands,.." This is careful wording and a true statement by Tim. It is designed to give the impression Apple doesn't offshore when in reality the only part of 'traditional' offshoring Apple did not due is the part where they move money to the Caymans. Instead they had a special loophole with the Irish government. The Irish law that governs tax rate had a statement in it about companies 'on Irish soil' Apple came up with "Apple Operations International" which has no employees, and no physical presence. It is therefore not on Irish soil. It is that entity that has all the money and was taxed at even less than the normal Irish rate. Under pressure Ireland was already forced to close that specific loophole. If that is what the EU is targetting, it is largely Apple only that will be affected- not the traditional Caymaners.
The part about:
Apple is proud of its long history in Ireland and the 4,000 people we employ in Cork. They serve our customers through manufacturing, tech support and other important functions...
...as well as showing an actual physical building in Ireland- is largely a PR smokescreen. It is a true statement, and Apple does have operations in Ireland that were taxed at the normal Irish rate, but that is in no way shape or form the same as the fictitious entity 'Apple Operations International' which handles the bulk of Apple's money and has no buildings nor employees.
Well said. I agree with you. How much taxes is enough. Not quite the same but Ancient Rome over taxed the citizens too. Look how that ended. These corrupt politicians claiming they got our backs but stuffing they pockets instead are f**king leeches.
That's, of course, nonsense. Apple knew precisely what it was doing. At issue is whether it needed a bit of illegal assistance from the Irish government to do that. If this loophole has a nasty gotcha like that, Apple and the other giant tax-evaders may be in trouble.
Hints that the EU won't pursue back taxes may come with a cost. Those companies may have to agree not to replace this loophole with another. Money they earn in a country will have to pay taxes in that country. That's only fair, because that's what the vast majority of businesses have to do.
Never forget that there no free lunch with taxes any more than there is with income. Because Apple et al aren't paying these taxes, a host of little businesses are getting stuck with making up the difference.
And never forget that the "comprehensive corporate tax reform" that Apple brings up is irrelevant. No corporate taxes laws forced Apple to use these loopholes. It's not a crime to pay the taxes that Apple has been avoiding.
Look at the SEC filings and cash flow statement. Taxes paid is about 25% of net income
OK. Take 2012 as an example
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000119312512444068/d411355d10k.htm.... From what I read the real worldwide tax-rate is closer to 14%....
Stop your FUD. Here's the latest data, for the first nine months of the fiscal year: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2014/07/22Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html
Apple's Provision for Taxes (i.e., the amount of taxes that it thinks it owes, but hasn't sent a check yet, since different countries have different payment dates) for the first nine months is ~$10.9B or over 25%. Actual Cash Taxes Paid is ~$8.1B, or about 20% (nowhere near the 14% nonsense you claim). There will be some convergence of the two numbers by the end of the FY.
You really need to take a step back and ask yourself why you continue to be so relentlessly negative and pessimistic about Apple, constantly shading facts and data to suit some weird agenda. Especially for a guy whose tagline claims to be 'the supplier of truth'....
Apple pays 25% on the USA because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. The sales made in the USA gets taxed. They can't avoid it.
The big corps in the EU can easily move to South America or various Islands. Apple has already done this on a small scale. There are litterally DOZENS of countires that will fall over themself to house big corps to exchange for jobs and even a 1% tax rate would net them hundreds of millions.
And look at the COMBINED tax rate for Apple, Microsoft, Google, ect.. Apple pays the highest percentage tax by far and the MOST tax dollars by far.
And why should Corps get taxed such high rates in the first place?
Apples tax rate is about 25% over the entire company.
But then the earnings get distributed to employees. They get TAXED ANOTHER 25-50%!!! So the combined tax rate is 50-75%!!!! Isn't that enough!
Investors also get taxed TWICE. Dividends get taxed from 15-25% and capital gains from 15-30%. Again the combined tax is over 50%!!!
How much fuking tax do you need! Apple is not the problem. Its the waste of government funds and the corruption. By raising taxes on Apple all you are doing is allowing politicans to have MORE money to bribe and give to their crownies.
Higher taxes for Apple will also mean HIGHER prices for consumers.
Just stop.
you cannot just add 25-50% to get 50-75%. do you honestly believe apple is taxed 75% off the top?
Yes, I can hear the conversation in Apple's board rooms grow excited. "Oh my gosh! I just read this letter from the EU. Does this mean we've been saving $9 billion dollars a year in taxes? Amazing, I never realized that. I thought we were just doing this Irish thing because we like those "4,000 people we employ in Cork."
That's, of course, nonsense. Apple knew precisely what it was doing. At issue is whether it needed a bit of illegal assistance from the Irish government to do that. If this loophole has a nasty gotcha like that, Apple and the other giant tax-evaders may be in trouble.
Do you drive past cheaper gas stations to go to a more expensive one? Or do you drive past the more expensive ones to get to a cheaper station? Why?
Nations have a Right to set their own tax laws as part of their national sovereignty. Everyone else, including businesses, has a natural right to order their own affairs for their own benefit within those laws.
The EU is just sore because Ireland is outcompeting them for business (taxes), so they're trying to tell Ireland to raise their prices. That's exactly like telling gas stations they have to raise prices because one of the stations want to make more money. That is simply wrong.