Some of you told me not to jump to conclusions but that is what they are.
They basically sacrificed the common shareholders (made them lose 95% of their investment) in order to renegotiate with Apple.
Bunch of CROOKS that deserve to be thrown in jail.
You don't say your company has a STRONG BALANCE SHEET and a strong CASH and REVENUE position on August 26th and then go BANKRUPT 6 weeks later. They FLATOUT lied to investors and should be thrown in jail.
So its bad deal they SIGNED????
Not for the CEO who cashed in on $10,000,000 in stock options this year.
I was one of those who asked where your proof was, but continuing developments are adding points in your favor. We're a long way from getting to the truth, but neither side has exactly been covering itself in glory lately. You and I and many others no doubt will be staying tuned.
First, I agree that GTAT execs have a lot for which to answer.
Second, this is a ploy on GTAT's part to get the best possible deal to avoid repaying Apple the $400 in loans for which GTAT is on the hook. Apple has the option of telling GTAT to go pound sand but then Apple puts 890 red-blooded Americans out of work.
Not trying to cook up a conspiracy theory, but there is a lot more fishy here. All these 'analysts' hyping the stock, making 'factual' statements about Apple using their products despite zero logic (using sapphire displays, Apple might have had 1 million devices at $1200 and up for the first weekend, not 10 million at their current price)... I would not be concerned if they would have done the usual thing, that's crying doom whatever Apple does. But hyping something completely and flatly unreasonable makes me wonder.
I'm beginning to wonder if there are provisions in the contract that would "hand over" the IP and the facilities in case of bankruptcy. This is somewhat common in contracts which would mean that GTA's only fighting position would be to point the finger at Apple in the hopes of saving their company.
I'm betting this is what happened and why Apple made a very odd public statement a few days ago on the matter. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Apple has taken over these two plants and that they own them outright after this is all over.
Sadly, modern corporate bankruptcy court is used as a way to get out of contracts, and bankruptcy judges let companies get away with it all too often (see: Hostess, where the executives all got pay raises, and the CEO got an 80% raise, WHILE the company was in bankruptcy court, yet claimed the company was too poor to keep paying their workers decent wages and benefits and asked the judge to be let out of their union contracts).
But why even choose to partner with such low lives? It just looks bad. Very bad.
Maybe at the time that wasn't apparent, even after rigorous due diligence? Maybe GTAT were a good company, they just went bad after overextending themselves to meet contractual terms that were recklessly entered into?
Maybe you shouldn't throw around blame before knowing any real facts or motivations? You might hit a few truths through luck, but it's showing the exact same lack of diligence to finding the truth that you're ascribing to Tim Cook.
Maybe at the time that wasn't apparent, even after rigorous due diligence? Maybe GTAT were a good company, they just went bad after overextending themselves to meet contractual terms that were recklessly entered into?
Maybe you shouldn't throw around blame before knowing any real facts or motivations? You might hit a few truths through luck, but it's showing the exact same lack of diligence to finding the truth that you're ascribing to Tim Cook.
From what I saw in the filing and I believe I read from some other posts, it appears prior to this, they only designed and sold the sapphire manufacturing equipment, they did not produce/manufacture sapphire themselves.
The only way I could see this falling more to be Apple's fault is if they had IP on improving the resulting sapphire or it's production and this IP would not be transferred until GTAT signed the contract and this method/process was what caused the issues in actual production, but the contract laid all the failure on GTAT's doorstep if it occurred. Even if they were setup that way, GTAT and/or their lawyers should have recognized that and, if they thought the risk was too great, not signed.
There are a whole lot of agreements/contracts attached to GTAT's filing. The earliest dated document is a confidentiality agreement from August of 2012. Then the rest are all from October 31, 2013.
Those criticizing GT should wait until more details come out.
It's possible that Apple imposed 'heads we win, tales you lose" requirements on a company that desperately needed its business. A failure on Apple's part meant no penalty. A failure on GT's was to be punished brutally. The only out for GT might have been this bankruptcy.
Also, keep in mind that sapphire production on this huge a scale is new. All sorts of gotchas can come up. Apple is as likely to be as much as fault for not planning for them as GT.
Its NOT about monitoring GT's progress AFTER they signed the contract.
Its making sure GT is a good and reliable company. That they have a competent executive staff and are honest. Obviously GTAT is NOT those things. There are dozens are sapphire manufacters and Mr Cook picks the one with a CROOK as a CEO.
Sure ultimately its not Apple's fault. But why even choose to partner with such low lives? It just looks bad. Very bad.
At the time Apple partnered with them, they were a reputable company. They had, and still have, the best technology in this area. What likely happened is that GTAT initially entered into the contracts with good faith, but their reach exceeded their grasp. They overpromised what they could do in what timeline, and they weren't able to scale up production as fast as expected.
On realizing this, the CEO should have done the responsible thing - going to Apple, eating crow, and having a grown up discussion about adjusting the contract timetables, which Apple would likely have done due to having so much invested in them already and GTAT being the best technologically. There would have been financial penalties, sure, but not to this degree. Instead, he chose to conceal things. He set up a stock selling plan for the year trying to keep it from looking suspicious. As the release date of the iPhone loomed, he would have definitely had his last upcoming stock sell date in mind as well as his inability to meet obligations, and simply chose to lie about the supposedly wonderful health of his company so as to bolster the stock price before his last upcoming stock sale. So it's a more clever fraud then dumping stock all at once in a panic, but it's still fraud.
That seems the most likely scenario to me, anyway.
Apparently GT Advanced's attorneys aren't very good at reading contracts. Nobody pointed a gun at their heads and told them to sign on the dotted line.
.
The comments were intended for the bankruptcy judge and were offered to support GTAT's agenda so of course they would paint Apple's contract terms in a less than favorable light. It does not mean GT didn't go into this with eyes wide open. This is just legal maneuvering as would be expected, an attempt to come out with as many assets and and the wiggle space to make use of them as possible. The comments weren't for a public audience.
[quote]"GTAT believes that it has many claims against Apple arising out of its business relationship with Apple," the filing reads.[/quote]
seems to me that when in bankruptcy, and having your obligations and claims against you excused, that part of it should include you losing your right to sue others. if they do go after apple post-bankruptcy then i hope apple drives them further into the ground.
these guys sound like complete and utter assholes and i wouldn't be surprised if they're cutting off their nose (closing the plants) just to spite their face (to hurt apple or make it look bad).
i'd start by following the money. who in the company is walking away with what and how much of it?
Tim, if there was ever a time to go "thermonuclear" on someone, this is it. Seek to acquire GTAT as repayment for the loan, fire the management, then run the plant.
Comments
I told you GTAT was full of FRAUD's and CROOKS.
Some of you told me not to jump to conclusions but that is what they are.
They basically sacrificed the common shareholders (made them lose 95% of their investment) in order to renegotiate with Apple.
Bunch of CROOKS that deserve to be thrown in jail.
You don't say your company has a STRONG BALANCE SHEET and a strong CASH and REVENUE position on August 26th and then go BANKRUPT 6 weeks later. They FLATOUT lied to investors and should be thrown in jail.
So its bad deal they SIGNED????
Not for the CEO who cashed in on $10,000,000 in stock options this year.
I was one of those who asked where your proof was, but continuing developments are adding points in your favor. We're a long way from getting to the truth, but neither side has exactly been covering itself in glory lately. You and I and many others no doubt will be staying tuned.
Second, this is a ploy on GTAT's part to get the best possible deal to avoid repaying Apple the $400 in loans for which GTAT is on the hook. Apple has the option of telling GTAT to go pound sand but then Apple puts 890 red-blooded Americans out of work.
Not trying to cook up a conspiracy theory, but there is a lot more fishy here. All these 'analysts' hyping the stock, making 'factual' statements about Apple using their products despite zero logic (using sapphire displays, Apple might have had 1 million devices at $1200 and up for the first weekend, not 10 million at their current price)... I would not be concerned if they would have done the usual thing, that's crying doom whatever Apple does. But hyping something completely and flatly unreasonable makes me wonder.
When you get up and try running with the big dogs, don't be surprised if you get run over if you are unable to keep up.
I'm beginning to wonder if there are provisions in the contract that would "hand over" the IP and the facilities in case of bankruptcy. This is somewhat common in contracts which would mean that GTA's only fighting position would be to point the finger at Apple in the hopes of saving their company.
I'm betting this is what happened and why Apple made a very odd public statement a few days ago on the matter. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Apple has taken over these two plants and that they own them outright after this is all over.
The GTAT CEO can pay those 890 Americans with the $10,000,000 he cashed in this year for his stock option plan.
I wonder if the 890 employees will be showing up at the CEO's house one of these days.
But why even choose to partner with such low lives? It just looks bad. Very bad.
Maybe at the time that wasn't apparent, even after rigorous due diligence? Maybe GTAT were a good company, they just went bad after overextending themselves to meet contractual terms that were recklessly entered into?
Maybe you shouldn't throw around blame before knowing any real facts or motivations? You might hit a few truths through luck, but it's showing the exact same lack of diligence to finding the truth that you're ascribing to Tim Cook.
There are certainly a lot of attachments to the filing: https://www.scribd.com/doc/242546436/GT-Advanced-Technologies-Request-to-Void-Apple-Agreements
Yeah, he could pay them each a whopping $11,235.96
I wish someone would invest 600M with me.
Then I blame them for my failure.
Haha
Maybe at the time that wasn't apparent, even after rigorous due diligence? Maybe GTAT were a good company, they just went bad after overextending themselves to meet contractual terms that were recklessly entered into?
Maybe you shouldn't throw around blame before knowing any real facts or motivations? You might hit a few truths through luck, but it's showing the exact same lack of diligence to finding the truth that you're ascribing to Tim Cook.
From what I saw in the filing and I believe I read from some other posts, it appears prior to this, they only designed and sold the sapphire manufacturing equipment, they did not produce/manufacture sapphire themselves.
The only way I could see this falling more to be Apple's fault is if they had IP on improving the resulting sapphire or it's production and this IP would not be transferred until GTAT signed the contract and this method/process was what caused the issues in actual production, but the contract laid all the failure on GTAT's doorstep if it occurred. Even if they were setup that way, GTAT and/or their lawyers should have recognized that and, if they thought the risk was too great, not signed.
There are a whole lot of agreements/contracts attached to GTAT's filing. The earliest dated document is a confidentiality agreement from August of 2012. Then the rest are all from October 31, 2013.
It's possible that Apple imposed 'heads we win, tales you lose" requirements on a company that desperately needed its business. A failure on Apple's part meant no penalty. A failure on GT's was to be punished brutally. The only out for GT might have been this bankruptcy.
Also, keep in mind that sapphire production on this huge a scale is new. All sorts of gotchas can come up. Apple is as likely to be as much as fault for not planning for them as GT.
Its NOT about monitoring GT's progress AFTER they signed the contract.
Its making sure GT is a good and reliable company. That they have a competent executive staff and are honest. Obviously GTAT is NOT those things. There are dozens are sapphire manufacters and Mr Cook picks the one with a CROOK as a CEO.
Sure ultimately its not Apple's fault. But why even choose to partner with such low lives? It just looks bad. Very bad.
At the time Apple partnered with them, they were a reputable company. They had, and still have, the best technology in this area. What likely happened is that GTAT initially entered into the contracts with good faith, but their reach exceeded their grasp. They overpromised what they could do in what timeline, and they weren't able to scale up production as fast as expected.
On realizing this, the CEO should have done the responsible thing - going to Apple, eating crow, and having a grown up discussion about adjusting the contract timetables, which Apple would likely have done due to having so much invested in them already and GTAT being the best technologically. There would have been financial penalties, sure, but not to this degree. Instead, he chose to conceal things. He set up a stock selling plan for the year trying to keep it from looking suspicious. As the release date of the iPhone loomed, he would have definitely had his last upcoming stock sell date in mind as well as his inability to meet obligations, and simply chose to lie about the supposedly wonderful health of his company so as to bolster the stock price before his last upcoming stock sale. So it's a more clever fraud then dumping stock all at once in a panic, but it's still fraud.
That seems the most likely scenario to me, anyway.
Apple owns the building and the furnices !
The comments were intended for the bankruptcy judge and were offered to support GTAT's agenda so of course they would paint Apple's contract terms in a less than favorable light. It does not mean GT didn't go into this with eyes wide open. This is just legal maneuvering as would be expected, an attempt to come out with as many assets and and the wiggle space to make use of them as possible. The comments weren't for a public audience.
seems to me that when in bankruptcy, and having your obligations and claims against you excused, that part of it should include you losing your right to sue others. if they do go after apple post-bankruptcy then i hope apple drives them further into the ground.
these guys sound like complete and utter assholes and i wouldn't be surprised if they're cutting off their nose (closing the plants) just to spite their face (to hurt apple or make it look bad).
i'd start by following the money. who in the company is walking away with what and how much of it?