Yet they expect that when an employee dials 911, the police or fire department will still show up. They expect the utilities to work. They expect the roads their employees use to get to work to be paved and plowed.
I don’t know about you, but I, a private citizen, sent some of my money to the government this year as taxes. You’re saying I shouldn’t have done that? Because apparently private citizens don’t pay taxes.
Apple and the rest need to stop effing over the globe for profiteering only. Sorry, but these loop-holes hold back economic stability and growth for the globe.
Apple and the rest need to stop effing over the globe for profiteering only.
If laws aren't good then politicians need to have them changed, but I don't think expecting companies to pay more in taxes because they are profitable is the right answer. I certainly look for all the tax breaks I can get when filing and I don't consider myself unethical or pro-planet effing as a result.
Apple and the rest need to stop effing over the globe for profiteering only. Sorry, but these loop-holes hold back economic stability and growth for the globe.
At risk for Ireland are the 160,000 jobs -- or almost one in every 10 workers in the country -- who are employed by the more than 1,000 foreign firms that have set up an base in Ireland to benefit from its low 12.5 percent corporate tax rate and flexible, English-speaking workforce.
"I think it's an unbelievably smart and hilarious idea. He has a sense of humor about what he does, despite the fact that he is absolutely serious about it," Ennis says. In the documentary, Hope explains he once received an energy bill from a man who claimed to own the sun. After careful consideration, he says, he decided to ask the man to turn off the sun.
Four years is plenty of time for Apple to scrape together some pocket change for the removal to Singapore, or Jersey, or some other haven. I doubt they'll be all that affected.
May the luck of the Irish be with you Ireland. I see an exodus of large corps
Perhaps, and perhaps not. Depending on how the Irish government changes things, there may not be a more viable country to declare as a residence. In addition, it depends on whether some other country decides to do what Ireland did to attract businesses. Over time all tax laws change; some quickly and some slowly, but they are in constant change. I really can't imagine what a tangled mess it is for the CFO of Apple to keep it all straight... you don't suppose they use an IBM mainframe, do you?
One thing that would make the biggest difference in how Apple did things is if the U.S. government declared a tax holiday and let Apple bring all their foreign money back home to invest in American-based Apple businesses.
I would prefer zero international and national corporate taxes since all they do is increase the price of products for the consumer anyway.
It's always fun to see people advocate for no corporate taxes. Yet they expect that when an employee dials 911, the police or fire department will still show up. They expect the utilities to work. They expect the roads their employees use to get to work to be paved and plowed. And of course they expect their company to be able to lobby politicians and contribute to campaigns. They want companies to have all the rights of a citizen but not pay the taxes that any citizen would be required to in order to obtain all that society provides to a citizen.
What. The. Absolute. ****??
Well, if the citizens of Detroit expect those things, they shouldn't be so amazed when it accidently happens...
@john12345 EU economy is more going down the drain due to huge corporations not paying the taxes that they should pay. To us, the People. Remember you're a human, not a corporative tool? Besides, Apple is far from being the target here. Oil companies, banks, Oracle, Microsoft, Google are doing the exact same thing. I've always been very annoyed to see the gorgeous headquarters and lavish salaries of people working up these companies, knowing that these taxes were avoided in a perfectly legal fashion. Taxes exist for a reason, and any argument against them (through tax avoidance justification) amounts to "governments are expensive and should be eliminated", which is interestingly an anarchist belief that extreme capitalists have latched unto.
@solipsismx What bothers me is the UN has voted back in the 60's that space is not "commercially exploitable". That implies you don't "own" land on the moon. We humans might be wise to stop destroying and "owning" stuff and start thinking about "responsibilities". We behave like spoiled kids who feel "entitled". Entitled to free stuff, entitled to ownership, entitled to sending people to prison if the laws in their state doesn't fit what TS think it should be (fat luck, though, Massachusetts actually applies the law, not TS opinions), etc.
@gadgetcanadav2 they did not have much of a choice, apart from leaving the EU itself. Do you see Texas leaving the USA anytime soon? Same for Ireland and EU. If the Union, be it America or Europe, believes that a certain set of state rules break the overarching Union rules, these state rules go away. Being inside an Union is still more beneficial than keeping rules that are obviously detrimental to the Union, however profitable they may be. Besides, I fully expect some political arrangement to be found. Money and politics, arrangements and suits ^^
All in all, while any sane CEO of a corporation would use any tax break they can to avoid taxes, it is the role of governments to minimise these in our general (people) interest. We should not blame them, we should support them, since they're here doing their job.
If you have 401K or IRA or any retirement portfolio, guess who's money the EU is dipping its grubby hands into?
-- Edit to add "EU"
That IRA or 401K which should anyway have been entirely after the total economic crash that the USA escaped by pushing it towards the EU through disputable financial methods? Let's not go this way, please. We all know that Europe's citizens have taken an average debt of 5 years of working life due to America's inability to manage their finances (like France's citizens having to increase their retirement age after the US crisis).
The EU's people pay and will keep paying for America.
Why do we? Because it's better to keep a global peace based on commerce than keep whining and going to war in the end. The last thing any of us wants is an Adolf Hitler to ride on an economic crisis (remember Weimar) and get us into another World War.
Stop blaming the EU for your own issues. Your politicians mismanaged your country, ours mismanage our countries. Your financial institutions abuse your system and ours, so do ours. In the end, the small investors and the workers pay for the rich. What else did you expect?
If it's still better than elsewhere then companies will stay.
They'll still have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world without using loopholes. The US is the worst so companies should really all leave the US and go to any EU country:
I think he was questioning whether collecting taxes from corporations is the most effective way to do so, or would it be more effective to eliminate corporate taxes and replace them by consumption oriented taxes.
I think it would have to be more than consumption tax. You could effectively trade in virtual assets like stocks and shares and not pay any tax at all outside of your own living expenses.
To make it fair, they'd also have to eliminate the personal equivalent, which is income tax. Corporation tax is just income tax for corporations.
I think it's something that should be explored because income, sales and corporation taxes more than anything place an administrative burden on businesses. The banks can all see where the money is going, the majority of transactions are digital. That data can be used to work out a reasonable share to take based on the movement of money and it doesn't need to use confusing time periods like offset quarters or years. If it's done during transactions, you can see how much is coming off so there's no provisions or deferments for tax needed.
Comments
Perhaps Finland wishes to...nah...
I don’t know about you, but I, a private citizen, sent some of my money to the government this year as taxes. You’re saying I shouldn’t have done that? Because apparently private citizens don’t pay taxes.
If laws aren't good then politicians need to have them changed, but I don't think expecting companies to pay more in taxes because they are profitable is the right answer. I certainly look for all the tax breaks I can get when filing and I don't consider myself unethical or pro-planet effing as a result.
Uh, no. Not in the slightest.
Apple should start a moonbase, keep some employees there. They have the money.
Since no one owns the moon, how can they be taxed?
As long as Moon Unit Alpha and Moon Unit Zappa have been cleared off.
Imagine Dr. Evil holding Apple's HQ on the moon at ransom for....
$100!!
Take into account that Apple is mainly avoiding US taxes with double irish with dutch sandwich.
And for what is worth I am fine if Apple leaves EU.
Can you explain?
Well, at least it remains business as usual for the next 6 years:
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/budget-to-end-double-irish-tax-scheme-1.1962188
Hehe
May the luck of the Irish be with you Ireland. I see an exodus of large corps
Perhaps, and perhaps not. Depending on how the Irish government changes things, there may not be a more viable country to declare as a residence. In addition, it depends on whether some other country decides to do what Ireland did to attract businesses. Over time all tax laws change; some quickly and some slowly, but they are in constant change. I really can't imagine what a tangled mess it is for the CFO of Apple to keep it all straight... you don't suppose they use an IBM mainframe, do you?
One thing that would make the biggest difference in how Apple did things is if the U.S. government declared a tax holiday and let Apple bring all their foreign money back home to invest in American-based Apple businesses.
Apple should start a moonbase, keep some employees there. They have the money.
Since no one owns the moon, how can they be taxed?
As long as Moon Unit Alpha and Moon Unit Zappa have been cleared off.
Imagine Dr. Evil holding Apple's HQ on the moon at ransom for....
Wait! Wait! Don't you guys read Dick Tracy? There's intelligent life up there and they don't really care for our ilk...!!
I would prefer zero international and national corporate taxes since all they do is increase the price of products for the consumer anyway.
It's always fun to see people advocate for no corporate taxes. Yet they expect that when an employee dials 911, the police or fire department will still show up. They expect the utilities to work. They expect the roads their employees use to get to work to be paved and plowed. And of course they expect their company to be able to lobby politicians and contribute to campaigns. They want companies to have all the rights of a citizen but not pay the taxes that any citizen would be required to in order to obtain all that society provides to a citizen.
What. The. Absolute. ****??
Well, if the citizens of Detroit expect those things, they shouldn't be so amazed when it accidently happens...
@solipsismx What bothers me is the UN has voted back in the 60's that space is not "commercially exploitable". That implies you don't "own" land on the moon. We humans might be wise to stop destroying and "owning" stuff and start thinking about "responsibilities". We behave like spoiled kids who feel "entitled". Entitled to free stuff, entitled to ownership, entitled to sending people to prison if the laws in their state doesn't fit what TS think it should be (fat luck, though, Massachusetts actually applies the law, not TS opinions), etc.
@gadgetcanadav2 they did not have much of a choice, apart from leaving the EU itself. Do you see Texas leaving the USA anytime soon? Same for Ireland and EU. If the Union, be it America or Europe, believes that a certain set of state rules break the overarching Union rules, these state rules go away. Being inside an Union is still more beneficial than keeping rules that are obviously detrimental to the Union, however profitable they may be. Besides, I fully expect some political arrangement to be found. Money and politics, arrangements and suits ^^
All in all, while any sane CEO of a corporation would use any tax break they can to avoid taxes, it is the role of governments to minimise these in our general (people) interest. We should not blame them, we should support them, since they're here doing their job.
If you have 401K or IRA or any retirement portfolio, guess who's money the EU is dipping its grubby hands into?
-- Edit to add "EU"
That IRA or 401K which should anyway have been entirely after the total economic crash that the USA escaped by pushing it towards the EU through disputable financial methods? Let's not go this way, please. We all know that Europe's citizens have taken an average debt of 5 years of working life due to America's inability to manage their finances (like France's citizens having to increase their retirement age after the US crisis).
The EU's people pay and will keep paying for America.
Why do we? Because it's better to keep a global peace based on commerce than keep whining and going to war in the end. The last thing any of us wants is an Adolf Hitler to ride on an economic crisis (remember Weimar) and get us into another World War.
Stop blaming the EU for your own issues. Your politicians mismanaged your country, ours mismanage our countries. Your financial institutions abuse your system and ours, so do ours. In the end, the small investors and the workers pay for the rich. What else did you expect?
They'll still have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world without using loopholes. The US is the worst so companies should really all leave the US and go to any EU country:
http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-states-lead-world-high-corporate-taxes
http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/pages/corporate-tax-rates-table.aspx
Montenegro is only 9% and is very picturesque:
I think it would have to be more than consumption tax. You could effectively trade in virtual assets like stocks and shares and not pay any tax at all outside of your own living expenses.
To make it fair, they'd also have to eliminate the personal equivalent, which is income tax. Corporation tax is just income tax for corporations.
I think it's something that should be explored because income, sales and corporation taxes more than anything place an administrative burden on businesses. The banks can all see where the money is going, the majority of transactions are digital. That data can be used to work out a reasonable share to take based on the movement of money and it doesn't need to use confusing time periods like offset quarters or years. If it's done during transactions, you can see how much is coming off so there's no provisions or deferments for tax needed.
May the luck of the Irish be with you Ireland. I see an exodus of large corps
No big loss. They are part of the UE and they have to play by the rules.