Apple asks court to seal objections against GT Advanced bankruptcy

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  • Reply 41 of 55
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    scythe42 wrote: »
    He meant the so called "Double Irish" often in a form called a "Dutch Sandwich". Has nothing to do with GTAT and NDAs as you noted correctly.

    If you combine the 2 you get Double Dutch. :lol:
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  • Reply 42 of 55
    I think we need to await the court judgement. Selling shares before declaring bankruptsy sounds, well, odd, dodgy even??? Apple was stretching the bounds of technology with this project, always a risk bound enterprise.
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  • Reply 43 of 55
    waltgwaltg Posts: 90member
    Well, I go back to the original issues,,, gt gets a big apple contract which other companies would love to get,,, they get with that a big wad of front cash which has disappeared, then the two head gt guys sell off millions in company stock right before the company announces trouble!!!! It shouldn't take a judge more than about 45 seconds to put these two guys in the slam!! But, I'm sure they will drag it out for all the glory to be had......
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  • Reply 44 of 55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by appleton View Post



    if this is really a production-related issue, then I would suggest the American factory mangers to take a tour to factory in China and see what the word diligence means to them.

     

    I wonder how they get such high productivity.

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ECats View Post

     

    The government aren't easily fooled


     

    You've read about our patent system, right?

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  • Reply 45 of 55
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,943moderator
    asdasd wrote: »
    What could have been so onerous about a non-payment of revenue for failure to perform?

    The contract they signed stipulated that GT didn't need to repay loans until Jan and the payments were interest free.

    It may very well be that in addition to not getting that last payment the contract also imposes immediate repayment of all monies received thus far in the case of a failure to meet the contract performance requirements. Facing both the prospect of not receiving a needed cash infusion and the prospect of having earlier cash infusions immediately coming due, it makes sense that GTAT would seek protection from its creditors in an attempt to protect what little cash it had remaining on the books. The company likely had little alternative; its options were an immediate chapter 11 filing, or very soon a chapter 7 filing.
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  • Reply 46 of 55

    This is what I think happened:

     

    Apple:  We like your tech, can you license it to us?

    GTAT: How about we make it for you?

    Apple:  ... OK, but we'll set milestones just to make sure.

    GTAT: No problem.

     

    6 month later:

    Apple:  Where are the samples?

    GTAT:  We ran into problems, it is going to be late...

    Apple:  Ok, we will work with you.

     

    2 more month later:

    Apple:  Where are the samples?

    GTAT:  We are still having problems...

    Apple:  Ok, but it won't make it for the iPhone 6.  Do you think it will be ready for Apple Watch, or iPhone 7?

    GTAT:  ... sure...

     

    2 more month later

    Apple:  The samples were unacceptable!

    GTAT:  We need more time

    Apple:  You don't have more time.  We are not sure you can do it.

    GTAT:  We are not sure either.

     

    GTAT Files for Chapter 11.

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  • Reply 47 of 55
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member

    Folks there is a much bigger game being played out here. GTAT is using any means they can to get what they want. No one here has and idea what their end game is. They using Apple NDA against Apple as well as they statement to the court about shutting down operations. These are all design to give GTAT leverage in any sort of negotiation which will come of this whole thing.

     

    Keep in mind when a company asks for Bankruptcy protection they asking the courts and government to step in and keep the creditors at bay. Creditor usually get screwed but not as much as everyone else. The creditors never leave empty handed, they are that going to get the most out of the whatever the courts decide. Everyone else gets what is left over which is usually nothing.

     

    GTAT is working to make sure Apple does not walk away with everything which right now Apple is sitting in a very good position, they get the IP, they get the process knowledge and all the capital equipment which still have value. and they will get what every money is left in the bank. If all they happen GTAT will be out of business and Apple can move on and give everything they got to another capable company. GTAT is trying to avoid this out coming and is doing everything they can to make they happen. They know what apple does not want anyone knowing what their real plans are, so thus their reason to have all information released in open court. They hoping to trade Apple design to keep things under cover in exchange of keeping the company running. This will only work if the courts agree with GTAT.

     

    On the topic of the top secret program, so beside GTAT making equipment for sapphire they also in the business of Solar cell production. maybe the big secret is that Apple and STAT was working on display glass they also acts as solar collector to charge batteries.

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  • Reply 48 of 55
    magman1979 wrote: »
    Please just do humanity a favour and SHUT THE HELL UP!

    Block him and you'll feel much better.
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  • Reply 49 of 55
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,943moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

     

    Folks there is a much bigger game being played out here. GTAT is using any means they can to get what they want. No one here has and idea what their end game is. They using Apple NDA against Apple as well as they statement to the court about shutting down operations. These are all design to give GTAT leverage in any sort of negotiation which will come of this whole thing.

     

    Keep in mind when a company asks for Bankruptcy protection they asking the courts and government to step in and keep the creditors at bay. Creditor usually get screwed but not as much as everyone else. The creditors never leave empty handed, they are that going to get the most out of the whatever the courts decide. Everyone else gets what is left over which is usually nothing.

     

    GTAT is working to make sure Apple does not walk away with everything which right now Apple is sitting in a very good position, they get the IP, they get the process knowledge and all the capital equipment which still have value. and they will get what every money is left in the bank. If all they happen GTAT will be out of business and Apple can move on and give everything they got to another capable company. GTAT is trying to avoid this out coming and is doing everything they can to make they happen. They know what apple does not want anyone knowing what their real plans are, so thus their reason to have all information released in open court. They hoping to trade Apple design to keep things under cover in exchange of keeping the company running. This will only work if the courts agree with GTAT.

     

    On the topic of the top secret program, so beside GTAT making equipment for sapphire they also in the business of Solar cell production. maybe the big secret is that Apple and STAT was working on display glass they also acts as solar collector to charge batteries.




    How can you say no one here has an idea what their end game is.  See my post (#45, above) and my other many posts about GTAT filing in order to protect what's left of their finances and business before they hand out any of the remaining cash to Apple or another creditor in an immediate call of their loans based upon their non-performance against their contracts.  Of course they are playing a game of posturing for the best possible negotiation of the outcome.  Silly rabbit, some of us know how these things work.

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  • Reply 50 of 55
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    How can you say no one here has an idea what their end game is.

    Because in business there is no end game unless it's the end of your business. Sometimes surviving is winning.
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  • Reply 51 of 55
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,470member

    If Apple was operating in good faith, i.e.,their interest was finished product, then it appears plausible that Apple would have "bent" the contract to assist  GTAT, as Apple has stated that it had offered assistance. Of course the details will need to be established to see what level of assistance was offered, and if it would have been enough to carry GTAT until the next iPhone generation (if in fact production was linked to sapphire screens).

     

    So, while it may have come as a surprise to Apple of the bankruptcy of GTAT, which in my opinion looks like a cut and run, there is certainly a trail of communications between the two parties detailing deficiencies and remedies to establish a timeline, which will be important to stockholders to determine whether management was completely forthcoming with these details in the August financial report.

     

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/sec?s=GTAT+SEC+Filings

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post





    It may very well be that in addition to not getting that last payment the contract also imposes immediate repayment of all monies received thus far in the case of a failure to meet the contract performance requirements. Facing both the prospect of not receiving a needed cash infusion and the prospect of having earlier cash infusions immediately coming due, it makes sense that GTAT would seek protection from its creditors in an attempt to protect what little cash it had remaining on the books. The company likely had little alternative; its options were an immediate chapter 11 filing, or very soon a chapter 7 filing.

    Perhaps it had the option of negotiation? Of course, we have little idea if that occurred other than Apple stating that they had attempted to work with GTAT.

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  • Reply 52 of 55
    This is what I think happened:

    Apple:  We like your tech, can you license it to us?
    GTAT: How about we make it for you?
    Apple:  ... OK, but we'll set milestones just to make sure.
    GTAT: No problem.

    6 month later:
    Apple:  Where are the samples?
    GTAT:  We ran into problems, it is going to be late...
    Apple:  Ok, we will work with you.

    2 more month later:
    Apple:  Where are the samples?
    GTAT:  We are still having problems...
    Apple:  Ok, but it won't make it for the iPhone 6.  Do you think it will be ready for Apple Watch, or iPhone 7?
    GTAT:  ... sure...

    2 more month later
    Apple:  The samples were unacceptable!
    GTAT:  We need more time
    Apple:  You don't have more time.  We are not sure you can do it.
    GTAT:  We are not sure either.

    GTAT Files for Chapter 11.

    Yes, PED tweeted about something similar in Fortune. All the people posting suspicion that the big bad Apple manipulated GTAT into bankruptcy are fantasizing to support their personal dislike for Apple, Inc.
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  • Reply 53 of 55
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appleton View Post



    apple holds high standard. GT obviously didn't take it seriously at first and allowed the money to blind their reasoning until when they actually delivered the first product to Apple.



    Is 20% yield by the Chinese sapphire processors considered a high standard?  We blame GTAT for not delivering enough sapphire, but couldn't GTAT also blame the Chinese processors for not being able to process the material correctly?  Oh, but then the Chinese processors would just turn around and claim that the sapphire they received was defective...

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  • Reply 54 of 55



    Who is?

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  • Reply 55 of 55



    Radar, having negotiated quite a few financing agreements and credit facilities in the 8 and 9 figure range, I can say there is a very high probability you are correct regarding all loans becoming due and immediately collectible upon a default/failure to perform. It's common practice and it would absolute incompetency of Apple if they did not have this protection built into their loan covenants with GT. One thing we know, regardless of anyone's personal opinion of Apple, is Apple is not stupid.

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