For physical retailers, it absolutely does not require the iPhone/Apple Watch to have internet access to work, much like a debit card.
It is the responsibility of the retailer to pass the transaction details to the issuer and the customers bank to process the transaction.
This is not the case, though, using Apple Pay inside an app.
I wonder if Apple could develop the system so it works through the merchant network or the internet. Nothing wrong with some redundancies in the system.
I wonder if Apple could develop the system so it works through the merchant network or the internet. Nothing wrong with some redundancies in the system.
Technically it is possible.
The two ways that I can see this being implemented are either:
A huge shift to the existing payment flow, where the iPhone takes payment details from the terminal, routes them to the issuers bank, and the bank then verifies the transaction and deposits money to the retailers merchant account. I can't imagine this one really taking off, though.
The other implementation I can imagine is that apps recognise NFC terminals with certain terminal ID's.
So for example, you go into Subway, and you have the Subway app installed. You can use the in-app Apple Pay instead of the physical Apple Pay if their terminal is down.
But for the amount of work it would require, I doubt it would ever be implemented for the very, very rare occasion a retailer has downtime.
How do you figure that Apple Pay is transparent to the store? This can't be true.
The information passed from the iPhone to the reader is formatted to look exactly like what a NFC card passes. To the reader and the store it looks likes standard credit card data. Only the credit card processor and the issuing bank take care of validating that it is valid Apple Pay transaction.
For physical retailers, it absolutely does not require the iPhone/Apple Watch to have internet access to work, much like a debit card.
It is the responsibility of the retailer to pass the transaction details to the issuer and the customers bank to process the transaction.
I was only interested in the retail (obviously in-app needs internet access).
What I wasn't sure about is that Apple is one of the first few to implement a tokenization system. Assuming there is no internet connection required, what does Apple Pay send to the POS system? The code stored in the Secure Element? Wouldn't that allow retailers to continue tracking us?
Or does it connect to the merchant's servers through the POS system's network, and retrieve the token from there to pass on? In that case, is that capability available in all current NFC based POS systems?
I don't know much about this technology, so thanks for your answers!
I was only interested in the retail (obviously in-app needs internet access).
What I wasn't sure about is that Apple is one of the first few to implement a tokenization system. Assuming there is no internet connection required, what does Apple Pay send to the POS system? The code stored in the Secure Element? Wouldn't that allow retailers to continue tracking us?
Or does it connect to the merchant's servers through the POS system's network, and retrieve the token from there to pass on? In that case, is that capability available in all current NFC based POS systems?
I don't know much about this technology, so thanks for your answers!
The NFC chip on the phone generates the one time use token using the phone's device id and other information (not your card data) and sends it to the credit card terminal. The information in the token is encrypted. It is formatted just like the data from a NFC credit card so it looks no different to the card reader and merchant than normal card data. If somebody was to steal the token, it would be of no use since it was already used. It doesn't contain your card number, expiration date or name. Only your credit card issuer (i.e., bank) can use the token to determine it was you that made the purchase.
I was only interested in the retail (obviously in-app needs internet access).
What I wasn't sure about is that Apple is one of the first few to implement a tokenization system. Assuming there is no internet connection required, what does Apple Pay send to the POS system? The code stored in the Secure Element? Wouldn't that allow retailers to continue tracking us?
Or does it connect to the merchant's servers through the POS system's network, and retrieve the token from there to pass on? In that case, is that capability available in all current NFC based POS systems?
I don't know much about this technology, so thanks for your answers!
It is unclear as of yet whether the retailer will be able to track you. All Apple has revealed is that a one time payment number (generated from the device account number) and a dynamic security code will be sent to the POS, but they have not indicated whether the POS will have access to the device account number (which is a unique 16 digit number).
If the device account number is sent, then the retailer will absolutely be able to track you. Time will tell.
Just used it in two different stores, a Duane Reade and a tiny liquor store and it worked perfectly in both. Sad how excited I got by this but it was fascinating, it really does "just work". I love it and IMO this is going to be a real game changer.
I tried adding my Amazon Visa in the Passbook App and was told that my bank doesn't yet support Apple Pay. Since the Amazon Visa cards are issued by Chase, which is on the list of supported banks, I was surprised. I wonder if Amazon is resisting the use of Apple Pay?
I tried adding my Amazon Visa in the Passbook App and was told that my bank doesn't yet support Apple Pay. Since the Amazon Visa cards are issued by Chase, which is on the list of supported banks, I was surprised. I wonder if Amazon is resisting the use of Apple Pay?
It must be Amazon because I have a British Airways Executive Club card issued by Chase and it works fine.
I tried adding my Amazon Visa in the Passbook App and was told that my bank doesn't yet support Apple Pay. Since the Amazon Visa cards are issued by Chase, which is on the list of supported banks, I was surprised. I wonder if Amazon is resisting the use of Apple Pay?
I don't think it's necessarily Amazon resisting. How I understand it, those kinds of cards are issued and protected by the financial institution, in this case Chase, but are still controlled by another entity, in case Amazon, or some other company between Amazon and Chase.
For example, my card from the airline I usually fly is an MC issued by Barclay. Barclay Bank isn't yet supported, but when they are I'll see if my card is also automatically supported.
I don't think it's necessarily Amazon resisting. How I understand it, those kinds of cards are issued and protected by the financial institution, in this case Chase, but are still controlled by another entity, in case Amazon, or some other company between Amazon and Chase.
For example, my card from the airline I usually fly is an MC issued by Barclay. Barclay Bank isn't yet supported, but when they are I'll see if my card is also automatically supported.
I have an Ink business card issued by Chase that is not supported.
There are lots of varieties to support. I guess payment systems are very complex.
I have an Ink business card issued by Chase that is not supported.
There are lots of varieties to support. I guess payment systems are very complex.
Good challenge for Apple.
1) Very, which adds to the impressiveness of Apple being able to orchestrate a system where they can get so many onboard before it launches. They've had a lot bigger struggles with music labels, movie and TV studios, and mobile network operators.
2) The only cards that don't work for me are by Amazon and my my airline (which is also tied to the yet unsupported, but coming soon, Barclay). I was able to add 3 cards and most had a slightly different setup. My Chase (not Amazon/Chase/Visa) card had an additional PIN that needed to be added by one of three different means (toll-free call, email or SMS. The latter two being Chase account info, not my iTS account into.
So far, this seems like a major success for Apple for Day 0.
I wonder if there is a way of taking Apple Pay truly online and utilising the camera to scan a barcode on screen then the phone approves payment access etc. It would be nice to ditch PayPal and very convenient to not have to type in credit card numbers into my browser.
The NFC chip on the phone generates the one time use token using the phone's device id and other information (not your card data) and sends it to the credit card terminal. The information in the token is encrypted. It is formatted just like the data from a NFC credit card so it looks no different to the card reader and merchant than normal card data. If somebody was to steal the token, it would be of no use since it was already used. It doesn't contain your card number, expiration date or name. Only your credit card issuer (i.e., bank) can use the token to determine it was you that made the purchase.
One wonders what methods the criminal class will employ next to steal... Hold more people for ransom? More home invasion robberies? It's not as if an entire group of people will simply disappear if their highly profitable criminal activities are thwarted.
The information passed from the iPhone to the reader is formatted to look exactly like what a NFC card passes. To the reader and the store it looks likes standard credit card data. Only the credit card processor and the issuing bank take care of validating that it is valid Apple Pay transaction.
Wow. That's slick! Thanks for the explanation. I gotta admit though, I thought you were completely full of shit at first! LOL
BUT if that's the case, I wonder why it's going to take so long to be supported here in Canada. Most of our POS terminals already support touch to pay...
Does anyone know if this will work with the prepaid Visa and Mastercards?
Wow. That's slick! Thanks for the explanation. I gotta admit though, I thought you were completely full of shit at first! LOL
BUT if that's the case, I wonder why it's going to take so long to be supported here in Canada. Most of our POS terminals already support touch to pay...
Does anyone know if this will work with the prepaid Visa and Mastercards?
It is unlikely to take too long. It will depend on how attractive Canada is to Apple though. Apple is profiting off sharing the interchange fee the banks and the payment networks (visa/mc/amex) currently profit from.
BUT if that's the case, I wonder why it's going to take so long to be supported here in Canada. Most of our POS terminals already support touch to pay..
It will work with any card issuer that has setup their backend to support ?Pay.
Comments
For physical retailers, it absolutely does not require the iPhone/Apple Watch to have internet access to work, much like a debit card.
It is the responsibility of the retailer to pass the transaction details to the issuer and the customers bank to process the transaction.
This is not the case, though, using Apple Pay inside an app.
I wonder if Apple could develop the system so it works through the merchant network or the internet. Nothing wrong with some redundancies in the system.
I wonder if Apple could develop the system so it works through the merchant network or the internet. Nothing wrong with some redundancies in the system.
Technically it is possible.
The two ways that I can see this being implemented are either:
A huge shift to the existing payment flow, where the iPhone takes payment details from the terminal, routes them to the issuers bank, and the bank then verifies the transaction and deposits money to the retailers merchant account. I can't imagine this one really taking off, though.
The other implementation I can imagine is that apps recognise NFC terminals with certain terminal ID's.
So for example, you go into Subway, and you have the Subway app installed. You can use the in-app Apple Pay instead of the physical Apple Pay if their terminal is down.
But for the amount of work it would require, I doubt it would ever be implemented for the very, very rare occasion a retailer has downtime.
How do you figure that Apple Pay is transparent to the store? This can't be true.
The information passed from the iPhone to the reader is formatted to look exactly like what a NFC card passes. To the reader and the store it looks likes standard credit card data. Only the credit card processor and the issuing bank take care of validating that it is valid Apple Pay transaction.
Just had lunch at the Panera Bread in Sunnyvale.
Used Apple Pay for the first time, and yes, "It just worked."
(That was me with the SF Giants cap and shirt.)
BTW the pasta was way beyond al dente, and drastically over-salted.
If I go there again, I'll get some kind of sandwich.
For physical retailers, it absolutely does not require the iPhone/Apple Watch to have internet access to work, much like a debit card.
It is the responsibility of the retailer to pass the transaction details to the issuer and the customers bank to process the transaction.
I was only interested in the retail (obviously in-app needs internet access).
What I wasn't sure about is that Apple is one of the first few to implement a tokenization system. Assuming there is no internet connection required, what does Apple Pay send to the POS system? The code stored in the Secure Element? Wouldn't that allow retailers to continue tracking us?
Or does it connect to the merchant's servers through the POS system's network, and retrieve the token from there to pass on? In that case, is that capability available in all current NFC based POS systems?
I don't know much about this technology, so thanks for your answers!
I was only interested in the retail (obviously in-app needs internet access).
What I wasn't sure about is that Apple is one of the first few to implement a tokenization system. Assuming there is no internet connection required, what does Apple Pay send to the POS system? The code stored in the Secure Element? Wouldn't that allow retailers to continue tracking us?
Or does it connect to the merchant's servers through the POS system's network, and retrieve the token from there to pass on? In that case, is that capability available in all current NFC based POS systems?
I don't know much about this technology, so thanks for your answers!
The NFC chip on the phone generates the one time use token using the phone's device id and other information (not your card data) and sends it to the credit card terminal. The information in the token is encrypted. It is formatted just like the data from a NFC credit card so it looks no different to the card reader and merchant than normal card data. If somebody was to steal the token, it would be of no use since it was already used. It doesn't contain your card number, expiration date or name. Only your credit card issuer (i.e., bank) can use the token to determine it was you that made the purchase.
I was only interested in the retail (obviously in-app needs internet access).
What I wasn't sure about is that Apple is one of the first few to implement a tokenization system. Assuming there is no internet connection required, what does Apple Pay send to the POS system? The code stored in the Secure Element? Wouldn't that allow retailers to continue tracking us?
Or does it connect to the merchant's servers through the POS system's network, and retrieve the token from there to pass on? In that case, is that capability available in all current NFC based POS systems?
I don't know much about this technology, so thanks for your answers!
It is unclear as of yet whether the retailer will be able to track you. All Apple has revealed is that a one time payment number (generated from the device account number) and a dynamic security code will be sent to the POS, but they have not indicated whether the POS will have access to the device account number (which is a unique 16 digit number).
If the device account number is sent, then the retailer will absolutely be able to track you. Time will tell.
Just used it in two different stores, a Duane Reade and a tiny liquor store and it worked perfectly in both. Sad how excited I got by this but it was fascinating, it really does "just work". I love it and IMO this is going to be a real game changer.
I tried adding my Amazon Visa in the Passbook App and was told that my bank doesn't yet support Apple Pay. Since the Amazon Visa cards are issued by Chase, which is on the list of supported banks, I was surprised. I wonder if Amazon is resisting the use of Apple Pay?
I tried adding my Amazon Visa in the Passbook App and was told that my bank doesn't yet support Apple Pay. Since the Amazon Visa cards are issued by Chase, which is on the list of supported banks, I was surprised. I wonder if Amazon is resisting the use of Apple Pay?
It must be Amazon because I have a British Airways Executive Club card issued by Chase and it works fine.
I don't think it's necessarily Amazon resisting. How I understand it, those kinds of cards are issued and protected by the financial institution, in this case Chase, but are still controlled by another entity, in case Amazon, or some other company between Amazon and Chase.
For example, my card from the airline I usually fly is an MC issued by Barclay. Barclay Bank isn't yet supported, but when they are I'll see if my card is also automatically supported.
I don't think it's necessarily Amazon resisting. How I understand it, those kinds of cards are issued and protected by the financial institution, in this case Chase, but are still controlled by another entity, in case Amazon, or some other company between Amazon and Chase.
For example, my card from the airline I usually fly is an MC issued by Barclay. Barclay Bank isn't yet supported, but when they are I'll see if my card is also automatically supported.
I have an Ink business card issued by Chase that is not supported.
There are lots of varieties to support. I guess payment systems are very complex.
Good challenge for Apple.
1) Very, which adds to the impressiveness of Apple being able to orchestrate a system where they can get so many onboard before it launches. They've had a lot bigger struggles with music labels, movie and TV studios, and mobile network operators.
2) The only cards that don't work for me are by Amazon and my my airline (which is also tied to the yet unsupported, but coming soon, Barclay). I was able to add 3 cards and most had a slightly different setup. My Chase (not Amazon/Chase/Visa) card had an additional PIN that needed to be added by one of three different means (toll-free call, email or SMS. The latter two being Chase account info, not my iTS account into.
So far, this seems like a major success for Apple for Day 0.
One wonders what methods the criminal class will employ next to steal... Hold more people for ransom? More home invasion robberies? It's not as if an entire group of people will simply disappear if their highly profitable criminal activities are thwarted.
Network is required when setting up the card, but not at time of purchase.
BUT if that's the case, I wonder why it's going to take so long to be supported here in Canada. Most of our POS terminals already support touch to pay...
Does anyone know if this will work with the prepaid Visa and Mastercards?
Wow. That's slick! Thanks for the explanation. I gotta admit though, I thought you were completely full of shit at first! LOL
BUT if that's the case, I wonder why it's going to take so long to be supported here in Canada. Most of our POS terminals already support touch to pay...
Does anyone know if this will work with the prepaid Visa and Mastercards?
It is unlikely to take too long. It will depend on how attractive Canada is to Apple though. Apple is profiting off sharing the interchange fee the banks and the payment networks (visa/mc/amex) currently profit from.
Apple Pay does not support prepaid cards.
It will work with any card issuer that has setup their backend to support ?Pay.