I hope Apple will ban CurrentC app based on insecurity for making users let CurrentC access to checking accounts and stop allowing Walmart to sell Apple products.
I hope Apple will ban CurrentC app based on insecurity for making users let CurrentC access to checking accounts and stop allowing Walmart to sell Apple products.
That would be in the best interests of customers.
Let the app stand and keep those 1 star ratings coming so people can see what a POS the app is!
Or you can tell them you'll swipe the old fashioned way. That way they pay the transaction fee regardless. There is no sidestepping the fee whether you use ApplePay or not. The only thing that is different is that out of the 2% fee you send the bank/card company kicks .15% over to Apple.
There is Federal law which requires CC to deal with fraudulent use. When the merchants become liable, in theory, I don't know if the Federal law applies to them, or how it applies. Fraud costs are costs of doing business to banks, which is the reason we are 30 years behind europe in stopping fraud. The last thing Walmart will accept is responsibility for compensating customers for breach. At this point, because of Federal law, there is an easy system for disputing payments. What proof will be sufficient for walmart? Also, if you've noticed, there are no customer protections for fraudulent use of Debit cards. With MCX attached to your bank account, this is effectively a debit card transaction or even an EFT.
Walmart has political clout -- they own the politicians. You can be sure MCX will be protected.
Well, as I understand it, and I could be wrong, but come October 2015, aren't there changes that are coming that will shift some of the liability to the retailers if they don't support the new types of cards? And aren't the cards using tap to pay? I could be mixing parts of one story with parts of others.
Sorry guys I will not engage with this data collection scheme.
I'm going to pick on you here, merely because yours was the first post on this thread to say this, but this is really a note to everyone. I think most regulars here know I'm a very big supporter of personal privacy, and an opponent of nearly all personal data mining. That said,
Why the big hubbub all of a sudden about the data mining of your retail purchases?!
Every single purchase you've made over the past decade or two with a debit/credit/loyalty (tracking) card, is fully mined already. The merchant gets your information and knows exactly what you've purchased, how often (and when) you shop there, and has you pretty well profiled if you shop at any of their locations regularly. Most people have been feeding this monster for many years and haven't given it a second thought.
I'm very happy that people are paying attention, but are you all really concerned about data collection, or is this more of a knee-jerk reaction to ?pay being attacked by certain retailers?
They are thinking of customer data when they say this and not customers.
Merchant Customer Exchange = Merchants that exchange customer data.
They hate the anonymity of Apple Pay. You know they are already pooling customer data on card swipes because they can. CurrentC is about cutting out the credit card companies the data sharing part doesn't require CurrentC. It just looks to get worse as people need to provide so much sensitive information for an account.
I'm boycotting all of the MCX stores I can. If I must go to one, they can have some cash. They can suck on their big data.
Retailers and product companies can buy data from credit card companies (usually the root company, like MasterCard, Visa, etc. but can actually be whoever "sponsors" the card too) that provide very detailed "purchase patterns" based on what accounts were shopping where/when and a purchase total.
This income (to the credit card "sponsor") is used to fund part of the "reward" programs on credit cards. If you read the agreement that you had to accept when you get a "reward" credit card (or any card these days) it is all there under sharing data with "partners". It is up to the companies that buy it to mine this "big data" backwards through their transaction history to tie a purchase total to a time/location/loyalty card and also to exactly what you purchased. They then compare that to other purchases you made and bada-bing... A product marketer's dream.
Apple Pay only adds a small isolation between your purchase total and what you bought, when Apple Pay is used without some unique consumer ID. They can still get the data from the credit card companies and tie the total/time/location to a list of goods. (this is also part of the use they get out of all those seemingly random numbers on the transaction history line item). If it is a store-branded credit card, they don't need anything other than that.
Google Wallet is probably the scariest for me. Google could potentially tie what you buy to what videos you watched on youtube, what websites you searched for/visited, how long you researched your purchase, what all products you considered before purchase, if you bought it based on an emailed suggestion from a relative, friend, close friend, wife etc... Truly scary stuff if you consider yourself a private individual.
If you had them scan in a "shopper card", "loyalty card", or something else to obtain price breaks on certain products (that is tied to you), the seller now has the time, date, total, and location (among other things) of you and your purchase that they can then use to mine backwards from that credit card company data to get the rest of what they had before (tying you to purchases made outside their network).
Granted there will be breaks in specifics here and there between purchases made with Apple Pay vs directly with a card, but if the total ends up on your statement with a string identifying the purchase location/POS, it can be tied back to you and your history somehow.
CurrentC/MCX is just removing the most time/money consuming "big data" step from this and making it easier/cheaper for the participating companies to know everything about you and your purchases. But the same thing that has been happening is still happening, if you look at the "privacy" side of it.
In essence, CurrentC/MCX is exactly the same as what MasterCard, Visa, AMEX, etc have been doing all along... just easier and cheaper for the merchant, not the consumer.
The saving grace and differentiating feature for Apple Pay:
Not a chance in hell I'd trust a system made up by merchants that can't even keep their individual purchase/credit transaction databases private, especially when they want to shift fraud liability to the consumer (me). MasterCard, Visa, AMEX, etc. all have skin in the game to keep their end secure as long as they'll always eat the cost of its' failure (fraudulent purchases).
So trust a conglomerate that wants me to foot the bill if someone steals info from them and makes unauthorized purchases? No thanks. I'll stick with the devil I know because at least he looks like he has my back, for now.
even Google Wallet is better ... but anyone who values their privacy is avoiding Google more and more nowadays - for good reason. it's the proto-Skynet.
Perhaps my favorite quote in this already great thread. I've been saying this for years, but I'm not sure I've seen it here before. Nice.
It comes down to this: If Apple Pay is more easier to use than MCX (It is) and the credit card guys go along with it (They won't), then MCX won't succeed.
They will eventually support Apple Pay or face the reality of lower sales. Vote with your dollar and DO NOT shop at any store that supports MCX. It's really that simple when there are many alternatives. There are also many other reasons why NOT to shop at Walmart, so any reason that deprives Walmart of a customer is a good reason indeed.
I'm going to pick on you here, merely because yours was the first post on this thread to say this, but this is really a note to everyone. I think most regulars here know I'm a very big supporter of personal privacy, and an opponent of nearly all personal data mining. That said,
Why the big hubbub all of a sudden about the data mining of your retail purchases?!
Every single purchase you've made over the past decade or two with a debit/credit/loyalty (tracking) card, is fully mined already. The merchant gets your information and knows exactly what you've purchased, how often (and when) you shop there, and has you pretty well profiled if you shop at any of their locations regularly. Most people have been feeding this monster for many years and haven't given it a second thought.
I'm very happy that people are paying attention, but are you all really concerned about data collection, or is this more of a knee-jerk reaction to ?pay being attacked by certain retailers?
Valid points. My issue isn't with individual companies collecting data about my purchases (order online, they have it all, anyway. Use a "loyalty card" the same is true), it is this new "shared" data pool. I don't want to (clumsy example, but illustrates the point) buy a TV at Best Buy, and be hit with alerts when I walk into CVS that they have a sale on batteries for the remote for my new TV. CurrentC is akin to browsing online for a treadmill, then going to Facebook and having an ad for that treadmill you just looked at show on the side. I accept that to an extent online. I don't need/want this to invade the real world.
My biggest issue isn't even with CurrentC, which of it's own merit, would never get me to sign up (I won't even download the app so I can write a bad review. That will just give them fuel to say "Downloaded by x# of people already!" without the "averaging 1 star" disclaimer).
My biggest issue is that, in all likelihood, these stores, when CurrentC launches, will continue to accept my Credit Card. CurrentC will not, as it's purpose is to avoid the payment for the credit card companies. Since these retailers will continue to accept my credit card, but refuse to implement the new direction that Credit Card companies are moving, they are, in effect, saying they don't care that the puck is moving/has moved, they will stick with the old way of doing things, regardless of what customers want. Extremely anti-consumer. Let's not even get into the ease of use discussion, as who knows what the end product really will look like or how it will function. (My guess is they will alter the clunkiness as a result of all of this attention, but that, in doing so, will make the process less secure than it already is)
If CurrentC is going to be as great as they say it is, and it will not accept credit cards (aside from the store specific cards, perhaps, which ApplePay does not currently support), PLUS the stores have the technology already in place, that they spent money on a few years ago to put in place, then why shut off access? Apple Pay is in no way, a viable alternative to CurrentC, and vice versa. Apple Pay is a credit card, CurrentC is a direct bank withdrawal.
This whole situation is one of a group of retailers trying to prove they don't need to "bow down" to Apple and Google, when in reality, neither Apple nor Google are asking the retailers to do anything they haven't already done, nor asking for any money from them.
So, to me, if a retailer is that opposed to providing me with a safer alternative to my current form of payment, yet they have a direct competitor that is willing to offer it to me, that competitor providing me with a choice will win every time. And I will voice my opinion to those retailers websites, Facebook walls, Twitter feeds, those crazy online petitions, whatever it takes - encouraging them to #SupportApplePay and that I intend to shop at those stores that do - It is the only recourse I have.
And I am not in the "You suck CVS - ApplePay Rules!" camp. I am very respectful.
Examples:
@CVS_Extra Just letting you know that I am transferring all my Rxs to @Walgreens due to your choice not to accept #ApplePay
@CVS_Extra I will also be encouraging my entire family to do the same. There's @Walgreens near every CVS, so no trouble. Support #ApplePay
@CVS_Extra To be clear. It isn't because you don't #SupportApplePay - it is because you technically can and chose to stop. Very anti customer.
So perhaps that will help explain, at least from my view-point, what all the hubbub is about.
Walmart's a very conservative Southern company and probably wants nothing to do with Tim Cook's transgender politics.
Just sayin.
"Transgender politics"?
You think Cook's politics have anything to do with Walmarts decision regarding this issue? No, of course you don't, but you couldnt help putting forth that vile comment. What a filthy, hateful, disgusting person you are.
Recent history has shown that most merchants should never have (or be allowed to retain) customer payment or bank account information. So why would I want Walmart to store my buying preferences and purchase histories?
Let's see what happens when someone purchases 24 shotgun shells and hollow points every week for the next month. Will Walmart's MCX platform enable them to differentiate on the appropriateness of an offer, manufacturer's promotion, or coupon suitable for arming someone for the next killing spree?
Comments
I hope Apple will ban CurrentC app based on insecurity for making users let CurrentC access to checking accounts and stop allowing Walmart to sell Apple products.
That would be in the best interests of customers.
I hope Apple will ban CurrentC app based on insecurity for making users let CurrentC access to checking accounts and stop allowing Walmart to sell Apple products.
That would be in the best interests of customers.
Let the app stand and keep those 1 star ratings coming so people can see what a POS the app is!
More like a delousing
Or you can tell them you'll swipe the old fashioned way. That way they pay the transaction fee regardless. There is no sidestepping the fee whether you use ApplePay or not. The only thing that is different is that out of the 2% fee you send the bank/card company kicks .15% over to Apple.
There is Federal law which requires CC to deal with fraudulent use. When the merchants become liable, in theory, I don't know if the Federal law applies to them, or how it applies. Fraud costs are costs of doing business to banks, which is the reason we are 30 years behind europe in stopping fraud. The last thing Walmart will accept is responsibility for compensating customers for breach. At this point, because of Federal law, there is an easy system for disputing payments. What proof will be sufficient for walmart? Also, if you've noticed, there are no customer protections for fraudulent use of Debit cards. With MCX attached to your bank account, this is effectively a debit card transaction or even an EFT.
Walmart has political clout -- they own the politicians. You can be sure MCX will be protected.
Well, as I understand it, and I could be wrong, but come October 2015, aren't there changes that are coming that will shift some of the liability to the retailers if they don't support the new types of cards? And aren't the cards using tap to pay? I could be mixing parts of one story with parts of others.
Sorry guys I will not engage with this data collection scheme.
I'm going to pick on you here, merely because yours was the first post on this thread to say this, but this is really a note to everyone. I think most regulars here know I'm a very big supporter of personal privacy, and an opponent of nearly all personal data mining. That said,
Why the big hubbub all of a sudden about the data mining of your retail purchases?!
Every single purchase you've made over the past decade or two with a debit/credit/loyalty (tracking) card, is fully mined already. The merchant gets your information and knows exactly what you've purchased, how often (and when) you shop there, and has you pretty well profiled if you shop at any of their locations regularly. Most people have been feeding this monster for many years and haven't given it a second thought.
I'm very happy that people are paying attention, but are you all really concerned about data collection, or is this more of a knee-jerk reaction to ?pay being attacked by certain retailers?
They are thinking of customer data when they say this and not customers.
Merchant Customer Exchange = Merchants that exchange customer data.
They hate the anonymity of Apple Pay. You know they are already pooling customer data on card swipes because they can. CurrentC is about cutting out the credit card companies the data sharing part doesn't require CurrentC. It just looks to get worse as people need to provide so much sensitive information for an account.
I'm boycotting all of the MCX stores I can. If I must go to one, they can have some cash. They can suck on their big data.
Retailers and product companies can buy data from credit card companies (usually the root company, like MasterCard, Visa, etc. but can actually be whoever "sponsors" the card too) that provide very detailed "purchase patterns" based on what accounts were shopping where/when and a purchase total.
This income (to the credit card "sponsor") is used to fund part of the "reward" programs on credit cards. If you read the agreement that you had to accept when you get a "reward" credit card (or any card these days) it is all there under sharing data with "partners". It is up to the companies that buy it to mine this "big data" backwards through their transaction history to tie a purchase total to a time/location/loyalty card and also to exactly what you purchased. They then compare that to other purchases you made and bada-bing... A product marketer's dream.
Apple Pay only adds a small isolation between your purchase total and what you bought, when Apple Pay is used without some unique consumer ID. They can still get the data from the credit card companies and tie the total/time/location to a list of goods. (this is also part of the use they get out of all those seemingly random numbers on the transaction history line item). If it is a store-branded credit card, they don't need anything other than that.
Google Wallet is probably the scariest for me. Google could potentially tie what you buy to what videos you watched on youtube, what websites you searched for/visited, how long you researched your purchase, what all products you considered before purchase, if you bought it based on an emailed suggestion from a relative, friend, close friend, wife etc... Truly scary stuff if you consider yourself a private individual.
If you had them scan in a "shopper card", "loyalty card", or something else to obtain price breaks on certain products (that is tied to you), the seller now has the time, date, total, and location (among other things) of you and your purchase that they can then use to mine backwards from that credit card company data to get the rest of what they had before (tying you to purchases made outside their network).
Granted there will be breaks in specifics here and there between purchases made with Apple Pay vs directly with a card, but if the total ends up on your statement with a string identifying the purchase location/POS, it can be tied back to you and your history somehow.
CurrentC/MCX is just removing the most time/money consuming "big data" step from this and making it easier/cheaper for the participating companies to know everything about you and your purchases. But the same thing that has been happening is still happening, if you look at the "privacy" side of it.
In essence, CurrentC/MCX is exactly the same as what MasterCard, Visa, AMEX, etc have been doing all along... just easier and cheaper for the merchant, not the consumer.
The saving grace and differentiating feature for Apple Pay:
Not a chance in hell I'd trust a system made up by merchants that can't even keep their individual purchase/credit transaction databases private, especially when they want to shift fraud liability to the consumer (me). MasterCard, Visa, AMEX, etc. all have skin in the game to keep their end secure as long as they'll always eat the cost of its' failure (fraudulent purchases).
So trust a conglomerate that wants me to foot the bill if someone steals info from them and makes unauthorized purchases? No thanks. I'll stick with the devil I know because at least he looks like he has my back, for now.
even Google Wallet is better ... but anyone who values their privacy is avoiding Google more and more nowadays - for good reason. it's the proto-Skynet.
Perhaps my favorite quote in this already great thread. I've been saying this for years, but I'm not sure I've seen it here before. Nice.
Wonder how much MCX has to do with Walmart's strategy of getting into the banking industry. http://www.forbes.com/sites/samanthasharf/2014/09/24/wal-mart-jumps-deeper-into-banking-with-new-mobile-checking-account/
Walmart has built the new Roach Motel ... once your money goes into GoBank, it never comes out again.
Wonder how much MCX has to do with Walmart's strategy of getting into the banking industry. http://www.forbes.com/sites/samanthasharf/2014/09/24/wal-mart-jumps-deeper-into-banking-with-new-mobile-checking-account/
Walmart has built the new Roach Motel ... once your money goes into GoBank, it never comes out again.
btw, this whole situation was anticipated by the Guardian over a month ago. Read the last line of the article, http://www.theguardian.com/money/us-money-blog/2014/sep/25/walmart-banks-checking-accounts
Quote:
I'm going to pick on you here, merely because yours was the first post on this thread to say this, but this is really a note to everyone. I think most regulars here know I'm a very big supporter of personal privacy, and an opponent of nearly all personal data mining. That said,
Why the big hubbub all of a sudden about the data mining of your retail purchases?!
Every single purchase you've made over the past decade or two with a debit/credit/loyalty (tracking) card, is fully mined already. The merchant gets your information and knows exactly what you've purchased, how often (and when) you shop there, and has you pretty well profiled if you shop at any of their locations regularly. Most people have been feeding this monster for many years and haven't given it a second thought.
I'm very happy that people are paying attention, but are you all really concerned about data collection, or is this more of a knee-jerk reaction to ?pay being attacked by certain retailers?
Valid points. My issue isn't with individual companies collecting data about my purchases (order online, they have it all, anyway. Use a "loyalty card" the same is true), it is this new "shared" data pool. I don't want to (clumsy example, but illustrates the point) buy a TV at Best Buy, and be hit with alerts when I walk into CVS that they have a sale on batteries for the remote for my new TV. CurrentC is akin to browsing online for a treadmill, then going to Facebook and having an ad for that treadmill you just looked at show on the side. I accept that to an extent online. I don't need/want this to invade the real world.
My biggest issue isn't even with CurrentC, which of it's own merit, would never get me to sign up (I won't even download the app so I can write a bad review. That will just give them fuel to say "Downloaded by x# of people already!" without the "averaging 1 star" disclaimer).
My biggest issue is that, in all likelihood, these stores, when CurrentC launches, will continue to accept my Credit Card. CurrentC will not, as it's purpose is to avoid the payment for the credit card companies. Since these retailers will continue to accept my credit card, but refuse to implement the new direction that Credit Card companies are moving, they are, in effect, saying they don't care that the puck is moving/has moved, they will stick with the old way of doing things, regardless of what customers want. Extremely anti-consumer. Let's not even get into the ease of use discussion, as who knows what the end product really will look like or how it will function. (My guess is they will alter the clunkiness as a result of all of this attention, but that, in doing so, will make the process less secure than it already is)
If CurrentC is going to be as great as they say it is, and it will not accept credit cards (aside from the store specific cards, perhaps, which ApplePay does not currently support), PLUS the stores have the technology already in place, that they spent money on a few years ago to put in place, then why shut off access? Apple Pay is in no way, a viable alternative to CurrentC, and vice versa. Apple Pay is a credit card, CurrentC is a direct bank withdrawal.
This whole situation is one of a group of retailers trying to prove they don't need to "bow down" to Apple and Google, when in reality, neither Apple nor Google are asking the retailers to do anything they haven't already done, nor asking for any money from them.
So, to me, if a retailer is that opposed to providing me with a safer alternative to my current form of payment, yet they have a direct competitor that is willing to offer it to me, that competitor providing me with a choice will win every time. And I will voice my opinion to those retailers websites, Facebook walls, Twitter feeds, those crazy online petitions, whatever it takes - encouraging them to #SupportApplePay and that I intend to shop at those stores that do - It is the only recourse I have.
And I am not in the "You suck CVS - ApplePay Rules!" camp. I am very respectful.
Examples:
@CVS_Extra Just letting you know that I am transferring all my Rxs to @Walgreens due to your choice not to accept #ApplePay
@CVS_Extra I will also be encouraging my entire family to do the same. There's @Walgreens near every CVS, so no trouble. Support #ApplePay
@CVS_Extra To be clear. It isn't because you don't #SupportApplePay - it is because you technically can and chose to stop. Very anti customer.
So perhaps that will help explain, at least from my view-point, what all the hubbub is about.
I wonder if Walmart has it's consumers 'best interests in mind' when it reminds them that they are fat,
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/28/living/walmart-costume-controversy/index.html
Then again, when you consider what they peddle to their customers, their clientele shouldn't be surprised.
Walk into Walmart and go to the checkout.
Say "Do you take ApplePay?"
When they say "No, we have the great payment system called CurrentC. Want to try it?"...
Replay "No" and proceed to pay all in one's, that will mess with the back office!!
Just sayin.
Walmart's a very conservative Southern company and probably wants nothing to do with Tim Cook's transgender politics.
Just sayin.
"Transgender politics"?
You think Cook's politics have anything to do with Walmarts decision regarding this issue? No, of course you don't, but you couldnt help putting forth that vile comment. What a filthy, hateful, disgusting person you are.
Because they get nothing from it. I have no intention of using either system, but if Apple wants to get the world's largest retailer on board, it will have to offer something in return. http://article.wn.com/view/2014/10/28/Apple_Made_A_Really_Strange_Move_To_Trigger_Its_War_With_Wal/
Let's see what happens when someone purchases 24 shotgun shells and hollow points every week for the next month. Will Walmart's MCX platform enable them to differentiate on the appropriateness of an offer, manufacturer's promotion, or coupon suitable for arming someone for the next killing spree?