GT Advanced says it's only settling with Apple because it can't afford to sue

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 72
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    sog35 wrote: »
    So you criticize me for calling GTAT FRAUDS and CROOKS?
    Why?  The facts are proving more and more this is EXACTLY what they are.

    1) Were you the guy standing across from me, but not playing, at the craps table that kept calling out numbers and when, on the odd chance you guessed correctly, kept saying you knew it, as well as saying you were almost right when it was a number away? You sound like that guy. That guy killed the table.

    2) Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but you haven't proven that. Can you make an argument that removes the possibility that they are just not good at business or got in over their heads, that removes any doubt that it wasn't a huge scam against Apple from the start?
  • Reply 42 of 72
    paul94544paul94544 Posts: 1,027member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

     

    Give it time. It's only been a few weeks. I would be astounded if a thorough investigation didn't eventually occur that revealed GTA management ran off with millions in their personal bank accounts. I wonder how well they thought this through. Did they check with their lawyers to see how well they could hide the money so it couldn't be found & recovered as part of the bankruptcy proceedings? When (not if) the SEC gets involved as a result of them lying about their business to investors, does that open up their personal accounts for scrutiny? Again, IANAL but I suspect these guys are in deep doo doo. It may take a year or two but they'll get theirs. I hope they enjoy their good life for now, as it won't last.

     

    Most if not all companies are Ponzi schemes in the sense that the founders get in cheap and then the stock price goes up on expectations and the greed of later investors. The way people act nowdays they expect to be bailed out if their investment goes south. After what happened with the bankers I can see why this has become so.
  • Reply 43 of 72
    ecatsecats Posts: 272member
    Oh look, GT trying to assert a victim's argument while never having to show evidence for it in court. What kind of fools do they think of the bankruptcy court?

    The fact that they aren't proceeding legal action, refer to Apple's off shore holdings as some kind of war chest and that they're 'only' settling because of the cost of legal representation all points to one thing: they have no viable grievances and the case would only shine light on their mismanagement and, likely, misrepresentation to apple.

    Indeed, elsewhere suppliers compete vigorously for apple supplier status. To me it looks like GT oversold (read: lied about) their technical capacity to get the $$$ and then never delivered on their contract.
  • Reply 44 of 72
    What makes me angry is the fact that the workers have to pay the price when loosing their jobs. If it was simple to do, I would have the goverment remove ALL executives from that company and just put all the workers in charge. Saphaire production would continue for Apple and workers would get their jobs back. Everybody fairly wins. And the excutives, leave them jobless with their millions. And make them use their millions to pay Apple what they owe. The workers don't owe that to Apple.
  • Reply 45 of 72
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,724member

    Has anyone heard whether the executives who sold (out) their stocks prior to bankruptcy have been questioned by the court and SEC over their actions? All we're hearing is GTA wants to sue Apple but nothing about the potentially criminal action their executives were involved in. Even Martha Stewart got caught and had to serve time for doing something similar. Of course, they did it against Apple so the DOJ isn't going to lift a finger.

  • Reply 46 of 72
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    rumpels wrote: »
    What makes me angry is the fact that the workers have to pay the price when loosing their jobs. If it was simple to do, I would have the goverment remove ALL executives from that company and just put all the workers in charge. Saphaire production would continue for Apple and workers would get their jobs back. Everybody fairly wins. And the excutives, leave them jobless with their millions. And make them use their millions to pay Apple what they owe. The workers don't owe that to Apple.

    And what about all the other companies that go belly up as well?
  • Reply 47 of 72
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by starbird73 View Post

     

     

     

     

    Yeah, something doesn't add up here. Apple, as you said woody, continues to say they want to see what happens, wants to try and preserve the jobs, isn't asking for interest, etc.

     

    GTAT continues to try and paint Apple as the Evil Empire. I tell you what. If I "knew I'd win" then I wouldn't be settling. 




    Exactly!  If you knew you would win money would not be a problem because you would recoup any lawyers fees in the end.  Talk is extremely cheap.  GTAT just comes off as a bunch of sour loud mouth whiners that could not provide what they promised.  Like has been said here by others, they knew the details of the contract going in and should never have signed it if they did not like the language in the contract.  Apple has every right to hold them to there contract.  

    Apple has not publicly denigrated  GTAT and is allowing them to repay the money with no interest.  That does not seem like "inequitable conduct" to me.  Actually it seems very lenient to me considering the circumstances.  There also allowing GTAT to keep all the Mesa facility assets and inventory, i.e. the furnaces and sapphire boules created.  Again sounds really reasonable.

  • Reply 48 of 72



    So far there isn't a single fact in evidence that proves any such thing. There are some instances of behavior by GTAT and some of its executives that ha given rise to speculation they may have violated some securities laws. You can bet it is being looked at very closely by the SEC and  Federal Prosecutors. But is there evidence? None that anyone has shown or leaked to the public. Suspicious behavior does not equal evidence. The fact that no one in a position of legal authority, including the Bankruptcy Trustee or the Judge overseeing the case has made any such accusation only further indicates it's unlikely that the trades were illegal. From what I've read, they weren't. They were done as part of a trading plan filed with the SEC and complied with all the required lead time and notifications.

     

    Is it possible they committed insider trading offenses or stole company funds? Yes it is, but so far nothing has been found to give that substance.

  • Reply 49 of 72
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,073member
    The director who trousered 10 million could certainly afford to fund a lawsuit if he really believed he was right and would therefore win.
  • Reply 50 of 72
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,073member
    Double post
  • Reply 51 of 72
    thomprthompr Posts: 1,513member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    So where are all those people who called me a SLANDER for calling the GTAT executives FRAUDS and CRIMINALS?

     

    GTAT is showing their true colors.


    As I recall it, you began your tirade by bashing Apple almost within hours of GTAT's bankruptcy filing.  Then you changed later when a few more details started coming out.  You get as many mea culpas as you give.

  • Reply 52 of 72
    plovellplovell Posts: 818member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TomMikele View Post

     



    So far there isn't a single fact in evidence that proves any such thing. There are some instances of behavior by GTAT and some of its executives that ha given rise to speculation they may have violated some securities laws. You can bet it is being looked at very closely by the SEC and  Federal Prosecutors. But is there evidence? None that anyone has shown or leaked to the public. Suspicious behavior does not equal evidence. The fact that no one in a position of legal authority, including the Bankruptcy Trustee or the Judge overseeing the case has made any such accusation only further indicates it's unlikely that the trades were illegal. From what I've read, they weren't. They were done as part of a trading plan filed with the SEC and complied with all the required lead time and notifications.

     

    Is it possible they committed insider trading offenses or stole company funds? Yes it is, but so far nothing has been found to give that substance.




    Tom: it is true that no charges have been filed and, unsurprisingly, no evidence has been made public (other than the SEC fillings).

     

    So it is then a stretch to accept your assertion "indicates it's unlikely that the trades were illegal". It is true that there is nothing public but that is quite normal.

     

    My reading of the scant available evidence is that the sales plan was filed with the SEC after the production problems had become apparent. We don't know how much "bad news" was known internally versus the information that was released. It's likely that the CEO and others knew more about the problems than we did - but we don't know that for certain. Time will tell.

     

    I expect that the evidence will come and the GT execs will be indicted - in due time. And when that happens I am sure that Apple will be called to give evidence. And then ... this ill-considered rant will come back to haunt them.

  • Reply 53 of 72
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    Is there a way Apple can acquire the company and fire the executives?
  • Reply 54 of 72
    plovellplovell Posts: 818member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cali View Post



    Is there a way Apple can acquire the company and fire the executives?



    Sure. But Apple does not want to run production plants like this. That's not their speciality, and it's why they did a deal with GTAT.

     

    And if Apple did acquire GTAT it would also take on the liabilities. There's no good reason to do this.

  • Reply 55 of 72
    Well, GTAT only manufactured the furnaces but had never run the business side of manufacturing the sapphire itself.

    It may be a case of both companies not understanding what it would take to build a new business from scratch. I think Apple's view is they want to use GTAT furnaces. I may be that GTAT need improvements to satisfy Apple -- and they couldn't both run the furnace manufacturing part and the sapphire production side.

    Somebody is going to have to run the sapphire manufacturing side -- it won't be Apple or GTAT.
  • Reply 56 of 72
    GTAT's bitter responses shows that they made bad decisions working with Apple on the agreed terms. The quality and progress of the sapphire may have changed spec mid-project, but that would have been stipulated in the contract. Apple is widely known for demanding vendor product specs and QC. Undercapitalization is at the fault of GTAT: poor projection planning. The NDA part of the deal seals GTAT's position in silence. Another poor decision. Borrower is servant to the lender. Apple taking the high road may not mean they are clean either, but at this point, they are safe to have their $439m, and may have options for future sapphire through GTAT, or to whomever they sell their furnaces. Moving forward, no other source for sapphire seemed to have the quality or quantity. Supplying camera glass and TouchID glass is probably not at risk, but Apple Watch and other iOS display glass is likely set back a year or two. It would have been a nice product differentiator to have sapphire displays trickling upward through the mobile lineup.
  • Reply 57 of 72
    funny, how GTAT doesn't address the issue of their executives DUMPING GTAT stock the day prior to the iPhone 6 release! Instead of GTAT throwing stones at Apple, I'd like GTAT to take some responsibility to their shareholders!!
  • Reply 58 of 72
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,429member
    Well, GTAT only manufactured the furnaces but had never run the business side of manufacturing the sapphire itself.

    It may be a case of both companies not understanding what it would take to build a new business from scratch. I think Apple's view is they want to use GTAT furnaces. I may be that GTAT need improvements to satisfy Apple -- and they couldn't both run the furnace manufacturing part and the sapphire production side.

    Somebody is going to have to run the sapphire manufacturing side -- it won't be Apple or GTAT.

    That sounds about right. Meanwhile I'd like to see those that lined their pockets before entering bankruptcy be asked some serious questions by a judge.
  • Reply 59 of 72
    moreckmoreck Posts: 187member
    If they truly believed they could win, they would sue.
  • Reply 60 of 72
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,022member

    Just remember one thing, they signed the contract and you have to assume they had legal representation when they signed it. They will be hard press to prove that Apple was not acting fairly, also no one said an agreement must be fair or equal. They would have to prove Apple breach the agreement or was breaking some law or was not acting ethically. They appear to be claiming apple was breaking some law about bankruptcy court and putting other creditor at risks. Again they signed the agreement and they are all big boys.

     

    It is obvious they are your typical whore supplier who will do anything for money and they want to cry to the court about how they got crabs. the best part is they knew up front they were going to get craps and sign an agreement to this fact.

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