The things that always amaze me in an Apple store, are that,
regardless of how many people are in it, it rarely seems "crowded"...
That, <span style="line-height:1.4em;">and the fact that everyone is usually glued to something, not just</span>
cattling their way through...
Imagine yourself in a Sears or Macy's with the same concentration of people per square foot
as you often see in an Apple store - unbearable.
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">Given that this is a company dedicated to immersing you in a digital lifestyle,</span>
that so many people are attracted actually to "show up" is almost miraculous.
I agree that the design with the lower tables (i.e.: no high shelving in the aisles), the lighter colors, and better lighting allows for more people per sq ft than possible or comfortable in other stores, but I can't agree that rarely seems crowded. Every time I walk by or go into an Apple Store there are probably at least 50-80 people on the floor between customers and employees. I definitely can't recall being able to make a B-line to the Genius Bar or the accessories area in the back without maneuvering around others.
She was employed by Apple when she made the font, last I checked; unless she had some kind of clause in her contract or there was an agreement, they own her work.
Of course. Except the value of that flag is not likely to increase much. Only the rarest Apple prototypes approach that level. Sure, it's nice, but you could probably make something up yourself (or pay someone to do it) for far less money.
Susan is actually selling prints of Macintosh icons, and knowing Apple I'd be surprised that a clause in her contract permitted this. So essentially Apple is letting her do this (which is fair) but I bet that legally they could've gone after her if they wanted to.
Now I've checked her Twitter account and I don't see anything that make it seem like she's angry about their re-use of San Francisco as a font name, I'm not sure what Rogifan was referring to.
A pirate flag can be seen in this video which was hidden in the Centris/Quadra 660AV/840AV install CD. (Though unlike what I previously thought, it's not the original one).
...but I can't agree that rarely seems crowded. Every time I walk by or go into an Apple Store there are probably at least 50-80 people on the floor between customers and employees. I definitely can't recall being able to make a B-line to the Genius Bar or the accessories area in the back without maneuvering around others.
Let me rephrase then - it doesn't give the sense of intimidating chaos I'd feel in other venues.
Again, I suspect it's because such a large percentage of those present are focused on product,
and by 'focused' I don't just mean riffling through some items, but raptly immobile.
Yes, it's still an obstacle course, but, no, it's not a demolition derby.
...As for "B-line" (I think that's 'bee-line'?), aren't you using the anti-grav app on your iPhone???
I don't see anything that make it seem like she's angry about their re-use of San Francisco as a font name, I'm not sure what Rogifan was referring to.
There are two issues. One are the font glyphs copied and two is the name and the font metrics too similar. Did she copyright the glyphs and associate them with the name.
For example an author may write a book titled "My Great Novel" a comedy about an wealthy couple in NYC. Another author could write a different novel with the same title about a a share cropper during the great depression. No copyright infringement. The name by itself is probably not copyright protected.
There are two issues. One are the font glyphs copied and two is the name and the font metrics too similar. Did she copyright the glyphs and associate them with the name.
For example an author may write a book titled "My Great Novel" a comedy about an wealthy couple in NYC. Another author could write a different novel with the same title about a a share cropper during the great depression. No copyright infringement. The name by itself is probably not copyright protected.
I really doubt she copyrighted anything. When you work at Apple, everything you create that is copyrightable/trademarkable becomes Apple's property, this goes for most companies you can work for. The first Macintosh fonts were named after cities by the team, and reportedly it was Steve Jobs who asked for those to be "world class" cities names, San Fransisco was an obvious choice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonts_on_Macintosh#Fonts_of_the_original_Macintosh
Again, I don't see evidence that Susan Kare is angry about this name choice, though I can understand she would've preferred if Apple had choose another name. Ultimately I don't see how it can hurt, if anything it raised awareness about her work on the original San Fransisco font, which was not really in use these days anyway.
I don't think Apple stores are what is generally considered sterile and corporate. They all look much the same but they are stylish and minimalist and in terms of retail design they are still a cut above the rest. There's nothing cheap about them.
I agree - there are people all over the world who live in houses that look and feel just like the inside of an Apple Store. It's just personal taste. Not everyone wants to live in an Apple Store and not everyone wants to live in a fake Victorian tract home.
There are two issues. One are the font glyphs copied and two is the name and the font metrics too similar. Did she copyright the glyphs and associate them with the name.
The original San Francisco font was a gimmick font to (I'm assuming) show off that fact that the Mac was making anything possible. Except for college kids printing party flyers on their ImageWriters (I speak from experience), it was never really used for anything--and wasn't expected to be. So, no, the glyphs of the two fonts share nothing in common.
Now I've checked her Twitter account and I don't see anything that make it seem like she's angry about their re-use of San Francisco as a font name, I'm not sure what Rogifan was referring to.
Rogifan frequently makes bombastic statements that have zero connection to reality. Call her out on one of these instances and she falls silent.
Why she continues this practice is completely baffling. Every time she does this, her credibility drops, and frequently she is called out on it with no response.
She is not alone. There are several other veteran AI participants who routinely post unsubstantiated garbage.
Amusingly, tech blog site re/code just abandoned their reader comment system. I foresee more tech blogs dumping reader comments in the upcoming months.
The original San Francisco font was a gimmick font to (I'm assuming) show off that fact that the Mac was making anything possible. Except for college kids printing party flyers on their ImageWriters (I speak from experience), it was never really used for anything--and wasn't expected to be. So, no, the glyphs of the two fonts share nothing in common.
Correct.
For non-whimsical usages, one would select other fonts, like Geneva (Apple's interpretation of sans serif Helvetica) or New York (their interpretation of a serif font like Times New Roman).
There was no serious usage case for the original San Francisco font. It was just for fun.
Excuse me, what bombastic statement did I make? This is what I said:
Check out Kare's Twitter account. I get the feeling she's not too crazy about Apple creating a new font and calling it San Francisco.
I fail to see what's bombastic about that statement. I never said she was "angry". But when she retweets something like the below it gives me the impression she's not giving a thumbs up to Apple reusing her font name. What exactly is the "School of Jony Ive"?
Two Apple fonts called San Francisco. Susan Kare, 1984; School of Jony Ive, 2014. Did the city change, or did Apple?
Again, I don't see evidence that Susan Kare is angry about this name choice, though I can understand she would've preferred if Apple had choose another name. Ultimately I don't see how it can hurt, if anything it raised awareness about her work on the original San Fransisco font, which was not really in use these days anyway.
I never said she was angry, but here are a few things she tweeted/retweeted which make me think she's not to pleased about her font name being reused:
Two Apple fonts called San Francisco. Susan Kare, 1984; School of Jony Ive, 2014. Did the city change, or did Apple?
@bkeniray@SusanKare I picture the old glyphs vandalizing a bus full of clean-cut sanserif glyphs on their way to an out-of-city tech campus
I wonder if Kare's knows that many of Apple's designers live in San Francisco, and Jony Ive has lived there for 22 years. Of course he now lives in Pacific Heights which is probably too gentrified for her.
I never said she was angry, but here are a few things she tweeted/retweeted which make me think she's not to pleased about her font name being reused:
I wonder if Kare's knows that many of Apple's designers live in San Francisco, and Jony Ive has lived there for 22 years. Of course he now lives in Pacific Heights which is probably too gentrified for her.
Sorry I didn't want to put words into your mouth.
I just see those retweets as playful banter. People are joking about it, and of course she might enjoy that.
Stealing her font name was about as classy as stealing the Swift name from the academics who created the real Swift language: http://swift-lang.org/main/
Comments
I agree that the design with the lower tables (i.e.: no high shelving in the aisles), the lighter colors, and better lighting allows for more people per sq ft than possible or comfortable in other stores, but I can't agree that rarely seems crowded. Every time I walk by or go into an Apple Store there are probably at least 50-80 people on the floor between customers and employees. I definitely can't recall being able to make a B-line to the Genius Bar or the accessories area in the back without maneuvering around others.
She was employed by Apple when she made the font, last I checked; unless she had some kind of clause in her contract or there was an agreement, they own her work.
Of course. Except the value of that flag is not likely to increase much. Only the rarest Apple prototypes approach that level. Sure, it's nice, but you could probably make something up yourself (or pay someone to do it) for far less money.
Susan is actually selling prints of Macintosh icons, and knowing Apple I'd be surprised that a clause in her contract permitted this. So essentially Apple is letting her do this (which is fair) but I bet that legally they could've gone after her if they wanted to.
Now I've checked her Twitter account and I don't see anything that make it seem like she's angry about their re-use of San Francisco as a font name, I'm not sure what Rogifan was referring to.
A pirate flag can be seen in this video which was hidden in the Centris/Quadra 660AV/840AV install CD. (Though unlike what I previously thought, it's not the original one).
...but I can't agree that rarely seems crowded. Every time I walk by or go into an Apple Store there are probably at least 50-80 people on the floor between customers and employees. I definitely can't recall being able to make a B-line to the Genius Bar or the accessories area in the back without maneuvering around others.
Let me rephrase then - it doesn't give the sense of intimidating chaos I'd feel in other venues.
Again, I suspect it's because such a large percentage of those present are focused on product,
and by 'focused' I don't just mean riffling through some items, but raptly immobile.
Yes, it's still an obstacle course, but, no, it's not a demolition derby.
...As for "B-line" (I think that's 'bee-line'?), aren't you using the anti-grav app on your iPhone???
I don't see anything that make it seem like she's angry about their re-use of San Francisco as a font name, I'm not sure what Rogifan was referring to.
There are two issues. One are the font glyphs copied and two is the name and the font metrics too similar. Did she copyright the glyphs and associate them with the name.
For example an author may write a book titled "My Great Novel" a comedy about an wealthy couple in NYC. Another author could write a different novel with the same title about a a share cropper during the great depression. No copyright infringement. The name by itself is probably not copyright protected.
So it is, sans the hyphen. I'm not sure I ever knew it was specifically referencing bees, or I had forgotten.
Yes it is a bee line, but make sure you don't try to toe it.
There are two issues. One are the font glyphs copied and two is the name and the font metrics too similar. Did she copyright the glyphs and associate them with the name.
For example an author may write a book titled "My Great Novel" a comedy about an wealthy couple in NYC. Another author could write a different novel with the same title about a a share cropper during the great depression. No copyright infringement. The name by itself is probably not copyright protected.
I really doubt she copyrighted anything. When you work at Apple, everything you create that is copyrightable/trademarkable becomes Apple's property, this goes for most companies you can work for. The first Macintosh fonts were named after cities by the team, and reportedly it was Steve Jobs who asked for those to be "world class" cities names, San Fransisco was an obvious choice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonts_on_Macintosh#Fonts_of_the_original_Macintosh
Again, I don't see evidence that Susan Kare is angry about this name choice, though I can understand she would've preferred if Apple had choose another name. Ultimately I don't see how it can hurt, if anything it raised awareness about her work on the original San Fransisco font, which was not really in use these days anyway.
I don't think Apple stores are what is generally considered sterile and corporate. They all look much the same but they are stylish and minimalist and in terms of retail design they are still a cut above the rest. There's nothing cheap about them.
I agree - there are people all over the world who live in houses that look and feel just like the inside of an Apple Store. It's just personal taste. Not everyone wants to live in an Apple Store and not everyone wants to live in a fake Victorian tract home.
There are two issues. One are the font glyphs copied and two is the name and the font metrics too similar. Did she copyright the glyphs and associate them with the name.
The original San Francisco font was a gimmick font to (I'm assuming) show off that fact that the Mac was making anything possible. Except for college kids printing party flyers on their ImageWriters (I speak from experience), it was never really used for anything--and wasn't expected to be. So, no, the glyphs of the two fonts share nothing in common.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_(1984_typeface)
Now I've checked her Twitter account and I don't see anything that make it seem like she's angry about their re-use of San Francisco as a font name, I'm not sure what Rogifan was referring to.
Rogifan frequently makes bombastic statements that have zero connection to reality. Call her out on one of these instances and she falls silent.
Why she continues this practice is completely baffling. Every time she does this, her credibility drops, and frequently she is called out on it with no response.
She is not alone. There are several other veteran AI participants who routinely post unsubstantiated garbage.
Amusingly, tech blog site re/code just abandoned their reader comment system. I foresee more tech blogs dumping reader comments in the upcoming months.
The original San Francisco font was a gimmick font to (I'm assuming) show off that fact that the Mac was making anything possible. Except for college kids printing party flyers on their ImageWriters (I speak from experience), it was never really used for anything--and wasn't expected to be. So, no, the glyphs of the two fonts share nothing in common.
Correct.
For non-whimsical usages, one would select other fonts, like Geneva (Apple's interpretation of sans serif Helvetica) or New York (their interpretation of a serif font like Times New Roman).
There was no serious usage case for the original San Francisco font. It was just for fun.
Try reading the piece next time. "More of an homage than a direct copy". (first sentence, second paragraph...demanding, I know)
That being said, it looks pretty darn similar to the grainy, compressed image in the video still.
You caught me. I'll go read it......1st sentence, 2nd paragraph.........trying......
Yep...still not a very good replica.
I fail to see what's bombastic about that statement. I never said she was "angry". But when she retweets something like the below it gives me the impression she's not giving a thumbs up to Apple reusing her font name. What exactly is the "School of Jony Ive"?
I never said she was angry, but here are a few things she tweeted/retweeted which make me think she's not to pleased about her font name being reused:
I wonder if Kare's knows that many of Apple's designers live in San Francisco, and Jony Ive has lived there for 22 years. Of course he now lives in Pacific Heights which is probably too gentrified for her.
I never said she was angry, but here are a few things she tweeted/retweeted which make me think she's not to pleased about her font name being reused:
I wonder if Kare's knows that many of Apple's designers live in San Francisco, and Jony Ive has lived there for 22 years. Of course he now lives in Pacific Heights which is probably too gentrified for her.
Sorry I didn't want to put words into your mouth.
I just see those retweets as playful banter. People are joking about it, and of course she might enjoy that.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see it as playful banter, I see it as subtle digs.
You should ask the creator of Swift yourself.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-lattner/8a/449/566
He is an Apple employee by the way.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see it as playful banter, I see it as subtle digs.
Me too. I love the original Mac fonts. Back in the 10.2 to 10.4 timeframe I used to hack my OS X to use original Mac fonts.