I've got a trivia question for all you technologies buffs!
What happens when they get the process down to the atomic level? We get closer and closer at each new generation.
Answer: Quantum bits. The strange world of quantum mechanics follows a strange set of laws that are different than regular laws of physics. Quantum law begins at the atom level. For example, a particle can be in more than one place at a time. These strange laws allow for all possible calculations to compute at at the same time. This is the quantum bit. They have made quantum computers in labs, so it is very real - not sci-fi. The biggest problem right now before they mainstream it is cooling. The ones in the labs use liquid nitrogen to cool it.
If Apple follows the Intelesque pattern they've established, the A9 will be a much bigger microarchitectural change than the A8. The A8X already hints at a custom GPU, more RAM, and possibly expanding beyond dual CPU cores with the A9. Going with Samsung seems like an obvious choice, since the 14nm process would allow for a greater die shrink and reduction in power usage.
The A8 had a modest processing power increase because the microarchitectural changes were more iterative improvements to the much more radical CPU design introduced with the A7. But, the real jump with the A8 occurred with the massive reduction in power consumption. It didn't translate into equally large increases in battery life, because the larger screens and higher graphics resolution made up for the power usage reduction.
Apple still has the option of going to three or four CPU cores, bumping up the clockspeed, and/or adding RAM to increase performance. The die shrink reduces the power consumption, and frees up those other options to increase performance while maintaining battery life.
If Apple follows the Intelesque pattern they've established, the A9 will be a much bigger microarchitectural change than the A8. The A8X already hints at a custom GPU, more RAM, and possibly expanding beyond dual CPU cores with the A9. Going with Samsung seems like an obvious choice, since the 14nm process would allow for a greater die shrink and reduction in power usage.
The A8 had a modest processing power increase because the microarchitectural changes were more iterative improvements to the much more radical CPU design introduced with the A7. But, the real jump with the A8 occurred with the massive reduction in power consumption. It didn't translate into equally large increases in battery life, because the larger screens and higher graphics resolution made up for the power usage reduction.
Apple still has the option of going to three or four CPU cores, bumping up the clockspeed, and/or adding RAM to increase performance. The die shrink reduces the power consumption, and frees up those other options to increase performance while maintaining battery life.
Apple's A8X utilizes two Imagination Tech 4-cluster GPUs. How is that hinting at custom GPU?
I've got a trivia question for all you technologies buffs!
What happens when they get the process down to the atomic level? We get closer and closer at each new generation.
Answer: Quantum bits. The strange world of quantum mechanics follows a strange set of laws that are different than regular laws of physics. Quantum law begins at the atom level. For example, a particle can be in more than one place at a time. These strange laws allow for all possible calculations to compute at at the same time. This is the quantum bit. They have made quantum computers in labs, so it is very real - not sci-fi. The biggest problem right now before they mainstream it is cooling. The ones in the labs use liquid nitrogen to cool it.
Particles? That's sooo 1900. The future belongs to superstrings. They can wrap and stretch across tiny extra dimensions that are perpendicular to space time.
The days of either CPU or GPU performance doubling are probably over.
GPUs are horizontally scalable, so they should follow Moore's law of doubling performance every two year (linearly to number of transistors) until the law itself is over (probably not within a decade)
Apple's A8X utilizes two Imagination Tech 4-cluster GPUs. How is that hinting at custom GPU?
The GPUs were modified into an 8-cluster configuration, and Apple has been hiring GPU engineers at a brisk pace. The GPU modifications on the A8X seem like a modest first step similar to how the A4 and A5 built minor optimizations around reference CPU designs before the more highly custom work was unveiled starting with the A6.
When Apple requires all new apps to be compiled for 64-bit (February) the A7 and A8 will really start to shine.
Pixelmator uses the A8X. There are some games that run smoothly on the A8 but sputter a bit on the A7.
You want someone to blame, though, blame Apple for keeping the A5 alive and in production so long. Most devs don't want to abandon a portion of the market that is still far too large.
Actually, I am not complaining. Not at all. This is just amazing. I have an iPhone 4S and I can still run most apps just fine. However, this keeps me from buying a new device. Why should I get a new phone when the old one still runs brilliantly for my needs? And has done so for the past three years? If however, there were really great apps that didn't run on my phone - I'd consider getting a new one. But until now I haven't found them. But Pixelmator is a great start - I give you that. Makes me think about replacing my 1st gen iPad (which has slowly degraded into a mobile evernote system and little else) with a new one...
I think newer games/apps running Metal need to iPhone 6/6+ to even download. Try to download the new Zen app and read the message telling you to bugger off. Try to use Apple Pay with even a 5s iPhone...wait, no NFS built into the device. I'm writing this on a 2005 MBP that can't handle anything newer then OSX 10.4.11 so regretably upgrading is in the wind for me too.
When Apple requires all new apps to be compiled for 64-bit (February) the A7 and A8 will really start to shine.
Pixelmator uses the A8X. There are some games that run smoothly on the A8 but sputter a bit on the A7.
You want someone to blame, though, blame Apple for keeping the A5 alive and in production so long. Most devs don't want to abandon a portion of the market that is still far too large.
Actually, I am not complaining. Not at all. This is just amazing. I have an iPhone 4S and I can still run most apps just fine. However, this keeps me from buying a new device. Why should I get a new phone when the old one still runs brilliantly for my needs? And has done so for the past three years? If however, there were really great apps that didn't run on my phone - I'd consider getting a new one. But until now I haven't found them. But Pixelmator is a great start - I give you that. Makes me think about replacing my 1st gen iPad (which has slowly degraded into a mobile evernote system and little else) with a new one...
I think newer games/apps running Metal need to iPhone 6/6+ to even download. Try to download the new Zen app and read the message telling you to bugger off. Try to use Apple Pay with even a 5s iPhone...wait, no NFS built into the device. I'm writing this on a 2005 MBP that can't handle anything newer then OSX 10.4.11 so regretably upgrading is in the wind for me too.
You would likely be incorrect. The news that Samsung has a contract to supply the A9's to Apple date back over a year ago. This latest report is just more validation.
which thing am I wrong on, I did not say they did not win the A9 business, All I said they did not have the A8 business like everyone keeps rumoring. Also, I would bet that A9 Business has not been locked in yet. Remember Apple and Samsung are still battling in court and Samsung still owe them over $1B. I doubt Apple is letting them off the hook yet. TSMC is probably still in the running.
The days of either CPU or GPU performance doubling are probably over.
GPUs are horizontally scalable, so they should follow Moore's law of doubling performance every two year (linearly to number of transistors) until the law itself is over (probably not within a decade)
Also, since battery performance entered the equation, increasing die density is only important in how it may lower chip power consumption. This is why Intel is sucking air... it didn't update the equation with the new variable. Apple is also leading the research on increasing speed performance via Metal and power management. This helps keep hardware costs in line... gone are the days of brute force, damn the power requirements, hardware design.
You would likely be incorrect. The news that Samsung has a contract to supply the A9's to Apple date back over a year ago. This latest report is just more validation.
which thing am I wrong on, I did not say they did not win the A9 business, All I said they did not have the A8 business like everyone keeps rumoring. Also, I would bet that A9 Business has not been locked in yet. Remember Apple and Samsung are still battling in court and Samsung still owe them over $1B. I doubt Apple is letting them off the hook yet. TSMC is probably still in the running.
It's likely there would need to be more than one fab for Apple. So yeah there is a good chance a fab like TSMC is "still in the running".
Also you are conflating a lawsuit from years ago about "look and feel", stolen designs, rounded corners, etc. with current and future contracts. Let it go. Its like a fart in the wind anymore.
Do you honestly think Apple cares about that measly $1 billion if Samsung can deliver the chips that will net Apple orders of magnitude more money?
The days of either CPU or GPU performance doubling are probably over.
GPUs are horizontally scalable, so they should follow Moore's law of doubling performance every two year (linearly to number of transistors) until the law itself is over (probably not within a decade)
Also, since battery performance entered the equation, increasing die density is only important in how it may lower chip power consumption. This is why Intel is sucking air... it didn't update the equation with the new variable. Apple is also leading the research on increasing speed performance via Metal and power management. This helps keep hardware costs in line... gone are the days of brute force, damn the power requirements, hardware design.
I worked for IBM up until the waning days of the maimframe -- We held a series of seminars that promoted the brute force of IBM's latest ... We borrowed a theme form Detroit's halcyon days ...
Yes it will be faster. But honestly, there isn't one single app that uses the power of the A8 apart from high frame-rate video capturing. Not even games.
I don't buy this statement. Some of the games out there for example are using the features ofIPad fairly fully.
Where are the blockbuster titles like Infinity Blade or Real Racing to show off the power of the iPhone 6 / iPad Air 2? When are apps get more powerful?
Software always lags hardware. So new features and performance takes time to exploit. However apps are already taking advantage of new hardware/software features like metal.
I think Apple is bringing some significant changes to iOS next year to make use of all this spare power.
There really isn't that much to spare.
Things like split-view multitasking or multiple users can't be that far off - however,
IOS already multitasks to an extent. Multi user support (which would be absolutely stupid) requires high storage capacity not better performance.
I've been thinking this since iOS 5. Let's see how it plays out with iOS 9.
It is a given that Apple will add more features to iOS, I would look towards the future not the past in guessing what those features might be. Vastly improved voice recognition and AI support within IOS would be a good start.
what will the A9 chip have that the A8 chip does not?
Better all around performance which would enable a new class of apps.
better battery life would be awesome.
Maybe but I'm expecting Apple to use all the performance the power profile would allow.
It'd be interesting to get an Asomething chip (or 2) in a box like an AppleTV or HomeServer where heat and battery were not a concern -- and just let'r'fly!
…But until now I haven't found them. But Pixelmator is a great start - I give you that. Makes me think about replacing my 1st gen iPad (which has slowly degraded into a mobile evernote system and little else) with a new one...
Seriously guy do you realize how confused the last bit above makes you look. You claim that there are no apps out there to take advanatge of the new hardware yet you are running on an iPad that can't handle most new software. You even acknowledge that it has degraded to being an Evernote platform.
I have nothing agian still using hardware for as long as I can, I currently have an iPad 3 and an iPhone 4. However I don't allow self deception here and fully acknowledge just how dated these machine a are. Performance is an issue with both units even running Apples base software.
I think newer games/apps running Metal need to iPhone 6/6+ to even download. Try to download the new Zen app and read the message telling you to bugger off. Try to use Apple Pay with even a 5s iPhone...wait, no NFS built into the device. I'm writing this on a 2005 MBP that can't handle anything newer then OSX 10.4.11 so regretably upgrading is in the wind for me too.
The Metal API and Epic Zen Garden will run fine on the 5s if you've upgraded to iOS 8. The line in the sand will increasingly become 64-bit support, which all new App Store submittals will require starting in February. There's not a huge performance gap between the A7 and A8, except in power consumption. So, I would expect the 5s to remain a viable developer target for quite a while. Perhaps as long as the 6 and 6 Plus remain viable, since all three models are also limited to 1 GB RAM.
One real possibility is Apple including the Apple Pay Secure Element on the A9. Apple installed the NFC chip in the new iPads, but did not include the NFC antenna circuitry; the sole reason for the NFC chip's existence on the iPad is for the Secure Element to support Apple Pay.
Other possibilities would be to include the NFC circuitry on the A9 or to include some/all of the other communications circuitry (cellular/WiFi/Bluetooth) so Apple would not have to rely on third-party silicon. An additional benefit might be power savings.
Another process shrink should provide plenty of room for the modem processor. However Apple could buy the IP from Qualcomm or come up with their own. It wouldn't be irrational for them to make an IP purchase here to move forward with integration real fast. Power savings would be a real benefit as would be the space savings. Space is a huge issue in most IOS devices. More space would allow for more flash, sensors or other features.
Comments
Really? Because the former can’t even reliably do 720.
What happens when they get the process down to the atomic level? We get closer and closer at each new generation.
Answer: Quantum bits. The strange world of quantum mechanics follows a strange set of laws that are different than regular laws of physics. Quantum law begins at the atom level. For example, a particle can be in more than one place at a time. These strange laws allow for all possible calculations to compute at at the same time. This is the quantum bit. They have made quantum computers in labs, so it is very real - not sci-fi. The biggest problem right now before they mainstream it is cooling. The ones in the labs use liquid nitrogen to cool it.
Unfortunately, Intel doesn’t really have much in the way of a qbit division yet.
I like the indium antimonide stopgap idea, though.
If Apple follows the Intelesque pattern they've established, the A9 will be a much bigger microarchitectural change than the A8. The A8X already hints at a custom GPU, more RAM, and possibly expanding beyond dual CPU cores with the A9. Going with Samsung seems like an obvious choice, since the 14nm process would allow for a greater die shrink and reduction in power usage.
The A8 had a modest processing power increase because the microarchitectural changes were more iterative improvements to the much more radical CPU design introduced with the A7. But, the real jump with the A8 occurred with the massive reduction in power consumption. It didn't translate into equally large increases in battery life, because the larger screens and higher graphics resolution made up for the power usage reduction.
Apple still has the option of going to three or four CPU cores, bumping up the clockspeed, and/or adding RAM to increase performance. The die shrink reduces the power consumption, and frees up those other options to increase performance while maintaining battery life.
If Apple follows the Intelesque pattern they've established, the A9 will be a much bigger microarchitectural change than the A8. The A8X already hints at a custom GPU, more RAM, and possibly expanding beyond dual CPU cores with the A9. Going with Samsung seems like an obvious choice, since the 14nm process would allow for a greater die shrink and reduction in power usage.
The A8 had a modest processing power increase because the microarchitectural changes were more iterative improvements to the much more radical CPU design introduced with the A7. But, the real jump with the A8 occurred with the massive reduction in power consumption. It didn't translate into equally large increases in battery life, because the larger screens and higher graphics resolution made up for the power usage reduction.
Apple still has the option of going to three or four CPU cores, bumping up the clockspeed, and/or adding RAM to increase performance. The die shrink reduces the power consumption, and frees up those other options to increase performance while maintaining battery life.
Apple's A8X utilizes two Imagination Tech 4-cluster GPUs. How is that hinting at custom GPU?
Particles? That's sooo 1900. The future belongs to superstrings. They can wrap and stretch across tiny extra dimensions that are perpendicular to space time.
The days of either CPU or GPU performance doubling are probably over.
GPUs are horizontally scalable, so they should follow Moore's law of doubling performance every two year (linearly to number of transistors) until the law itself is over (probably not within a decade)
Apple's A8X utilizes two Imagination Tech 4-cluster GPUs. How is that hinting at custom GPU?
The GPUs were modified into an 8-cluster configuration, and Apple has been hiring GPU engineers at a brisk pace. The GPU modifications on the A8X seem like a modest first step similar to how the A4 and A5 built minor optimizations around reference CPU designs before the more highly custom work was unveiled starting with the A6.
I think newer games/apps running Metal need to iPhone 6/6+ to even download. Try to download the new Zen app and read the message telling you to bugger off. Try to use Apple Pay with even a 5s iPhone...wait, no NFS built into the device. I'm writing this on a 2005 MBP that can't handle anything newer then OSX 10.4.11 so regretably upgrading is in the wind for me too.
When Apple requires all new apps to be compiled for 64-bit (February) the A7 and A8 will really start to shine.
Pixelmator uses the A8X. There are some games that run smoothly on the A8 but sputter a bit on the A7.
You want someone to blame, though, blame Apple for keeping the A5 alive and in production so long. Most devs don't want to abandon a portion of the market that is still far too large.
Actually, I am not complaining. Not at all. This is just amazing. I have an iPhone 4S and I can still run most apps just fine. However, this keeps me from buying a new device. Why should I get a new phone when the old one still runs brilliantly for my needs? And has done so for the past three years? If however, there were really great apps that didn't run on my phone - I'd consider getting a new one. But until now I haven't found them. But Pixelmator is a great start - I give you that. Makes me think about replacing my 1st gen iPad (which has slowly degraded into a mobile evernote system and little else) with a new one...
I think newer games/apps running Metal need to iPhone 6/6+ to even download. Try to download the new Zen app and read the message telling you to bugger off. Try to use Apple Pay with even a 5s iPhone...wait, no NFS built into the device. I'm writing this on a 2005 MBP that can't handle anything newer then OSX 10.4.11 so regretably upgrading is in the wind for me too.
Fragmentation sucks doesn't it?
Then again who wants to support everything?
You would likely be incorrect. The news that Samsung has a contract to supply the A9's to Apple date back over a year ago. This latest report is just more validation.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/183466/rumor-apple-taps-rival-samsung-to-build-majority-of-a-series-chips-starting-next-year#post_2640695
which thing am I wrong on, I did not say they did not win the A9 business, All I said they did not have the A8 business like everyone keeps rumoring. Also, I would bet that A9 Business has not been locked in yet. Remember Apple and Samsung are still battling in court and Samsung still owe them over $1B. I doubt Apple is letting them off the hook yet. TSMC is probably still in the running.
Also, since battery performance entered the equation, increasing die density is only important in how it may lower chip power consumption. This is why Intel is sucking air... it didn't update the equation with the new variable. Apple is also leading the research on increasing speed performance via Metal and power management. This helps keep hardware costs in line... gone are the days of brute force, damn the power requirements, hardware design.
You would likely be incorrect. The news that Samsung has a contract to supply the A9's to Apple date back over a year ago. This latest report is just more validation.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/183466/rumor-apple-taps-rival-samsung-to-build-majority-of-a-series-chips-starting-next-year#post_2640695
which thing am I wrong on, I did not say they did not win the A9 business, All I said they did not have the A8 business like everyone keeps rumoring. Also, I would bet that A9 Business has not been locked in yet. Remember Apple and Samsung are still battling in court and Samsung still owe them over $1B. I doubt Apple is letting them off the hook yet. TSMC is probably still in the running.
It's likely there would need to be more than one fab for Apple. So yeah there is a good chance a fab like TSMC is "still in the running".
Also you are conflating a lawsuit from years ago about "look and feel", stolen designs, rounded corners, etc. with current and future contracts. Let it go. Its like a fart in the wind anymore.
Do you honestly think Apple cares about that measly $1 billion if Samsung can deliver the chips that will net Apple orders of magnitude more money?
I worked for IBM up until the waning days of the maimframe -- We held a series of seminars that promoted the brute force of IBM's latest ... We borrowed a theme form Detroit's halcyon days ...
"There's no substitute for cubic inches"
Maybe but I'm expecting Apple to use all the performance the power profile would allow.
It'd be interesting to get an Asomething chip (or 2) in a box like an AppleTV or HomeServer where heat and battery were not a concern -- and just let'r'fly!
Seriously guy do you realize how confused the last bit above makes you look. You claim that there are no apps out there to take advanatge of the new hardware yet you are running on an iPad that can't handle most new software. You even acknowledge that it has degraded to being an Evernote platform.
I have nothing agian still using hardware for as long as I can, I currently have an iPad 3 and an iPhone 4. However I don't allow self deception here and fully acknowledge just how dated these machine a are. Performance is an issue with both units even running Apples base software.
I think newer games/apps running Metal need to iPhone 6/6+ to even download. Try to download the new Zen app and read the message telling you to bugger off. Try to use Apple Pay with even a 5s iPhone...wait, no NFS built into the device. I'm writing this on a 2005 MBP that can't handle anything newer then OSX 10.4.11 so regretably upgrading is in the wind for me too.
The Metal API and Epic Zen Garden will run fine on the 5s if you've upgraded to iOS 8. The line in the sand will increasingly become 64-bit support, which all new App Store submittals will require starting in February. There's not a huge performance gap between the A7 and A8, except in power consumption. So, I would expect the 5s to remain a viable developer target for quite a while. Perhaps as long as the 6 and 6 Plus remain viable, since all three models are also limited to 1 GB RAM.
Another process shrink should provide plenty of room for the modem processor. However Apple could buy the IP from Qualcomm or come up with their own. It wouldn't be irrational for them to make an IP purchase here to move forward with integration real fast. Power savings would be a real benefit as would be the space savings. Space is a huge issue in most IOS devices. More space would allow for more flash, sensors or other features.