I think you have hit the nail on the head there. Another contributing factor could be that other countries don't have the ridiculous amount of CC fraud that the US has and so banks might not feel the need for Apple Pay.
...while card fraud has increased in the US, it was never as high as it was in Europe because most American merchants have used online authorization while Europeans tended to accept chip and PIN cards offline and then process them at the end of day.
Can someone explain what this personal and financial information is? According to Apple when you use ?Pay Apple doesn't know what you bought, where you bought it or how much you paid for it. In Passbook I can see my most recent transactions but I'm assuming that is local to the device and not sitting anywhere on Apple's servers.
This is also my understanding. What are we missing vis a vis the collection of data?
"while card fraud has increased in the US, it was never as high as it was in Europe because most American merchants have used online authorization while Europeans tended to accept chip and PIN cards offline and then process them at the end of day."
The above is incorrect. Yes the europeans use chip and pin but these transactions all go online for authorisation at the time of the transaction. Submissions most of the time are complete at the end of day. Contactless transactions on the other hand are offline meaning there is no online authorisation.
Big banks in the UK include HSBC, Barclays, Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds, TSB (Lloyds and TSB used to be part of the same group for many years) and Standard Chartered. We also have Building Societies such as Santander and Nationwide that are similar to banks. It would be interesting to know which bank is concerned about releasing data for Apple Pay and if they have worked out what will happen if they are the only big bank not to offer Apple Pay. If Apple have agreements with the first 4 banks then that would be more than enough to start with. My 2 year iPhone contract comes to an end next Spring so timing of an upgrade looks like it will match the introduction of Apple pay in the UK. That would be really sweet.
It doesn't say 'high amount', it could possibly be:
'It is understood the bank is uncomfortable with the low amount of personal and financial information Apple wants to collect about its customers.'
Actually the next quote makes clear it's definitely not low but rather too much according to bank. It doesn't make clear how much it actually is but it does make clear that it is too much and thus high from the banks point of view.
"Some executives fear Apple Pay and the data it delivers to Apple could serve as a beachhead for an invasion of the banking industry."
It doesn't say 'high amount', it could possibly be:
'It is understood the bank is uncomfortable with the low amount of personal and financial information Apple wants to collect about its customers.'
Obviously the bank knows how many times a customer uses their own cards but they get no data about their competition. Customers could be using a competitor's cards much more frequently and a bank would never know. That would match up with their fear that they'd take on a lower importance part of the payment process.
There's a possibility that Apple needs setup information from customers like name, address (for auto-filling shipping details), card and security numbers in order for the cards to verify through Apple Pay in order to prevent stolen cards being added but that wouldn't be any more than a standard online merchant, they'll have these details for hundreds of millions of people already.
IMO it would seem to indicate to me there's some data sharing/collection on the part of Apple that may not have have been reported yet. The banks would obviously be aware of whatever data collection is going on so the fact there's a mention of it as a concern shows there's something going on in the background, with perhaps the banks themselves doing so as well.
IMO it would seem to indicate to me there's some data sharing/collection on the part of Apple that may not have have been reported yet. The banks would obviously be aware of whatever data collection is going on so the fact there's a mention of it as a concern shows there's something going on in the background, with perhaps the banks themselves doing so as well.
It's one bank, reports are pluralizing it and saying 'at least one bank' for obvious reasons. The quote they use is about the data Apple will be allowed to access, which would be why it's described as a beachhead - a potential for an attack but not an indication of a desire to do that nor invade privacy.
So the bank has information collected about customers already and Apple's terms must be saying to allow them some access to it. This is being packaged up as a concern over privacy yet none of the other banks signed up have had a problem.
This could perhaps be access to credit records, payment frequency data. Until the one bank in question says what the data is they want to access, nobody can tell how much of a deal it is. I would actually trust Apple with the data my bank has more than my bank.
What data could they get access to that would lead to them being able to gain significant foothold in the credit/banking industry? Whatever it is, the banks aren't concerned about customer's privacy, they've already got the data, they just don't want anyone to have a competitive advantage over them by using it.
It's one bank, reports are pluralizing it and saying 'at least one bank' for obvious reasons. The quote they use is about the data Apple will be allowed to access, which would be why it's described as a beachhead - a potential for an attack but not an indication of a desire to do that nor invade privacy.
So the bank has information collected about customers already and Apple's terms must be saying to allow them some access to it. This is being packaged up as a concern over privacy yet none of the other banks signed up have had a problem.
This could perhaps be access to credit records, payment frequency data. Until the one bank in question says what the data is they want to access, nobody can tell how much of a deal it is. I would actually trust Apple with the data my bank has more than my bank.
What data could they get access to that would lead to them being able to gain significant foothold in the credit/banking industry? Whatever it is, the banks aren't concerned about customer's privacy, they've already got the data, they just don't want anyone to have a competitive advantage over them by using it.
Packaged as a concern over privacy?? That's not the way I read it. Instead it's just an indicator Apple may have access to more customer and/or transaction information than you, me and others had been lead to believe so far.
Packaged as a concern over privacy?? That's not the way I read it. Instead it's just an indicator Apple may have access to more customer and/or transaction information than you, me and others had been lead to believe so far.
Then why is there any concern about it at all? Not all reports are focusing on privacy but quite a few are:
...while card fraud has increased in the US, it was never as high as it was in Europe because most American merchants have used online authorization while Europeans tended to accept chip and PIN cards offline and then process them at the end of day.
Hi Plagen,
Thanks for the reply and link. I was not aware that CaP was processed at the end of the day. I used to be a cashier in Ireland & handled thousands of CC transactions and it seemed pretty instantaneous at the time (well, at least not delayed until EOD). Perhaps where I was it wasn't done that way at any rate. I
Looking through that article, it seemed most of the vulnerabilities were around ATM skimming. That reflects my experience in NZ as well. POS fraud is almost unheard of here because of CaP, but we have had some gangs fly in from overseas, skim a bunch of ATMs and try to fly out again.
There is no longer any mention of iTunes Radio on the Apple UK site at all. Going to the equivalent iTunes Radio URL on the UK Apple (http://www.apple.com/itunes/itunes-radio/ vs http://www.apple.com/uk/itunes/itunes-radio/) site just gives a 404. The Australian site has the same URL as the US site, so I think it's safe to say it really has been abandoned here.
I do have a US account I occasionally use for iTunes Radio but with ads, and IMO it's not really that great anyway. It has a fairly small selection of music when you choose to make a station from an album so you I get lots of repeated songs, though the pre-downloading of songs is great for when there's low signal.
Comments
I think you have hit the nail on the head there. Another contributing factor could be that other countries don't have the ridiculous amount of CC fraud that the US has and so banks might not feel the need for Apple Pay.
It's actually the way around: http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomgroenfeldt/2014/07/17/us-credit-card-fraud-is-spiking-ahead-of-emv-secure-chip-introduction/
...while card fraud has increased in the US, it was never as high as it was in Europe because most American merchants have used online authorization while Europeans tended to accept chip and PIN cards offline and then process them at the end of day.
Can someone explain what this personal and financial information is? According to Apple when you use ?Pay Apple doesn't know what you bought, where you bought it or how much you paid for it. In Passbook I can see my most recent transactions but I'm assuming that is local to the device and not sitting anywhere on Apple's servers.
This is also my understanding. What are we missing vis a vis the collection of data?
The above is incorrect. Yes the europeans use chip and pin but these transactions all go online for authorisation at the time of the transaction. Submissions most of the time are complete at the end of day. Contactless transactions on the other hand are offline meaning there is no online authorisation.
Big banks in the UK include HSBC, Barclays, Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds, TSB (Lloyds and TSB used to be part of the same group for many years) and Standard Chartered. We also have Building Societies such as Santander and Nationwide that are similar to banks. It would be interesting to know which bank is concerned about releasing data for Apple Pay and if they have worked out what will happen if they are the only big bank not to offer Apple Pay. If Apple have agreements with the first 4 banks then that would be more than enough to start with. My 2 year iPhone contract comes to an end next Spring so timing of an upgrade looks like it will match the introduction of Apple pay in the UK. That would be really sweet.
Actually the next quote makes clear it's definitely not low but rather too much according to bank. It doesn't make clear how much it actually is but it does make clear that it is too much and thus high from the banks point of view.
"Some executives fear Apple Pay and the data it delivers to Apple could serve as a beachhead for an invasion of the banking industry."
It's one bank, reports are pluralizing it and saying 'at least one bank' for obvious reasons. The quote they use is about the data Apple will be allowed to access, which would be why it's described as a beachhead - a potential for an attack but not an indication of a desire to do that nor invade privacy.
So the bank has information collected about customers already and Apple's terms must be saying to allow them some access to it. This is being packaged up as a concern over privacy yet none of the other banks signed up have had a problem.
This could perhaps be access to credit records, payment frequency data. Until the one bank in question says what the data is they want to access, nobody can tell how much of a deal it is. I would actually trust Apple with the data my bank has more than my bank.
What data could they get access to that would lead to them being able to gain significant foothold in the credit/banking industry? Whatever it is, the banks aren't concerned about customer's privacy, they've already got the data, they just don't want anyone to have a competitive advantage over them by using it.
Then why is there any concern about it at all? Not all reports are focusing on privacy but quite a few are:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2890086/Apple-Pay-s-UK-launch-delayed-privacy-concerns-Major-bank-said-uncomfortable-sharing-data.html
The source mentioned data collection but that was mentioned as a possibility with the access Apple asked for.
It's actually the way around: http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomgroenfeldt/2014/07/17/us-credit-card-fraud-is-spiking-ahead-of-emv-secure-chip-introduction/
...while card fraud has increased in the US, it was never as high as it was in Europe because most American merchants have used online authorization while Europeans tended to accept chip and PIN cards offline and then process them at the end of day.
Hi Plagen,
Thanks for the reply and link. I was not aware that CaP was processed at the end of the day. I used to be a cashier in Ireland & handled thousands of CC transactions and it seemed pretty instantaneous at the time (well, at least not delayed until EOD). Perhaps where I was it wasn't done that way at any rate. I
Looking through that article, it seemed most of the vulnerabilities were around ATM skimming. That reflects my experience in NZ as well. POS fraud is almost unheard of here because of CaP, but we have had some gangs fly in from overseas, skim a bunch of ATMs and try to fly out again.
Best,
There is no longer any mention of iTunes Radio on the Apple UK site at all. Going to the equivalent iTunes Radio URL on the UK Apple (http://www.apple.com/itunes/itunes-radio/ vs http://www.apple.com/uk/itunes/itunes-radio/) site just gives a 404. The Australian site has the same URL as the US site, so I think it's safe to say it really has been abandoned here.
I do have a US account I occasionally use for iTunes Radio but with ads, and IMO it's not really that great anyway. It has a fairly small selection of music when you choose to make a station from an album so you I get lots of repeated songs, though the pre-downloading of songs is great for when there's low signal.