Conflicting reports claim TSMC, Samsung each have upper hand for building Apple's 'A9' chip

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  • Reply 21 of 23
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,693member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    Well first I dnt think we will be seeing Apple switch all of its i86 products over to Arm anytime soon. The big issue here is software. They will not want to abandon the advanatge of being able to run just about any OS on their hardware. Given that, for many of us i86 compatibility is no longer an absolute requirement.



    So what does that all mean? If Apple does anything Arm based I suspect it will be marketed as a new product line. This to keep it clearly distinguished from the Mac i86 lineup. It could take as long as five years for the customer base to buy into a line of Macs that are Arm based. The general population would wait for early adopters to take all of the arrows.



    Long term Intel either needs to become far more open about customer hardware and working with customers on specific solutions or Apple will be forced to go Arm.

    Pedro is highly biased and frankly doesn't seem to understand where the industry is going. Frankly I think he is full of bullshit.



    Here is the problem in a nut shell, the world is moving to SoC technology. We already see this in Apples Arm line of processors. This is allowed by the much denser processes but is required to deliver things like the iPad. The thing that everyone seems to over look these days is that the SoC is effectively the Printed Circuit Board of the 1980's. The PCB is where companies put their IP back then, today though they put that IP right on the SoC.



    So we have Intel that for whatever reason can't seem to manage to produce a decent SoC even at 14nm. If they don't get their act together here Apple would be forced to go their own way with Arm. Apple doesn't currently build a lot of locally sourced IP into their Macs, however if they are expected to bring some of the goodies that we see in IOS devices to their Macs then they need to get Intel to atleast put those features into their processors in a generic manner. If not that they need to get Intel to do custom.



    An example here is TouchID which would be very nice to have in a Mac if it offered all the advantages it does in IOS devices. At the moment it appears that this requires some customization of the processor to maintain the required security. This would be valuable enough for me right now to go with an Arm based "Mac" like machine. Apple has added other IP to their Arm processors (purchased or developed in house) that I could see Apple wanting Intel to incorporate into their processors, the voice processing module being one example. In the end their are factors in play that could pull Apple away from Intel, especially if Intel doesn't get its act together. I'm not all that certain it will happen because these things are always in flux. The point is there is a real danger (to Intel) that Apple could offer a laptop that doesn't have i86 inside.



    I say laptop because that is where a real advantage for Apple may be had with an Arm based solution. People need to remember that Apples Arm does very well in SOME bench marks against Intels offerings while running at a fixed clock rate. Intel on the other hand is running with a variable clock rate which at times runs far faster than Apples Arm. Of course one bench mark doesn't tell the whole story and frankly I wouldn't expect Apple to use the same SoC that they use in the iPad in a laptop. However given a few improvements, the ability to run more cores at a higher clock rate being a big one, Apple can deliver a decent chip for the Mac Book Air just about anytime they want too now. They simply have to desire to do so. It really isn't a technical question as they certainly have the engineering skills.

    Fantastic, thanks!

  • Reply 22 of 23
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,092member

    Even if Samsung literally takes an A9 chip right out of the silicon wafer and slaps it into one of their own products, it won't work anyways correct?  I mean, the firmware/code still has to be embedded on the chip in order for it to function right?  So even if they can copy some aspects of Apple's chip technology, without the code to really make the chip work they would still stumble and always be behind right?



    I do agree... if Samsung was to ever be caught red-handed literally stealing Apple-chip tech for their own use, no company would even touch/trust Samsung afterwards so they would really be shooting themselves for it.  I think there are corrupt execs in Samsung that have (at least) entertained the thought of getting their hands on Apple's chip-tech, but that is only whispered in the executive bathrooms.

  • Reply 23 of 23
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    I'm not sure why people stress over this. It is far too easy for Apple to win any lawsuit that would result from a theft like you describe.
    sflocal wrote: »
    Even if Samsung literally takes an A9 chip right out of the silicon wafer and slaps it into one of their own products, it won't work anyways correct?  I mean, the firmware/code still has to be embedded on the chip in order for it to function right?  
    Depends upon the chip and what you mean by embed.
    So even if they can copy some aspects of Apple's chip technology, without the code to really make the chip work they would still stumble and always be behind right?
    I'd be far more worried about a third party trying to steal apples technology than Samsung.

    I do agree... if Samsung was to ever be caught red-handed literally stealing Apple-chip tech for their own use, no company would even touch/trust Samsung afterwards so they would really be shooting themselves for it.
    You also need to understand how Samsung is structured, the divisions are not tightly coupled. Further more, if I remember correctly Samsung's semiconductor business was in part built from a purchased American company.
     I think there are corrupt execs in Samsung that have (at least) entertained the thought of getting their hands on Apple's chip-tech, but that is only whispered in the executive bathrooms.

    Obviously any competitor would love to understand what Apple did with its A series chips. Hell Intel would like to know. However ethics and the law stunt such interests.
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