The point is a chip set upon which one can implement new devices.
If the point was performance, they wouldn't have such low TDPs.
The point is always performance! MBA's success is directly tied to Apples and Intels ability to increase performance.
People who struggle with the Air's performance should get a MBP but the Air is only half the performance anyway. If they make a super thin, lighter, quieter, longer-lasting, Retina Air, that's more compelling to low-end buyers than CPU/GPU performance most won't be using.
This can't come with a significant performance regression! This is why the GPU performance increases seen in these chips are so important, Broadwell should allow Apple to go retina without a serious blow to performance.
Again I don't see the point in fanless at the moment. It is frankly marketing nonsense to try to get people to ignore the stagnation in platform CPU performance. I already have a fanless solution in IPad which is a great platform. When I Turn to a Mac I'm not looking for iPad like performance, rather im trying to get things done.
The Air base can be almost as thin as an iPad.
If you'd be against adding a fan to an iPad, that's the draw. If it's a negative adding a fan to an iPad then it's a positive for the Air to remove one.
YOur logic fails to impress here. The Air and the iPad serve different use cases, the whole point of a laptop these days is to access the capability of a more robust operating system. An operating system by the way that has become more and more demanding upon the hardware it runs on. Of course that bloat and performance regressions aren't exactly welcomed but it is what we have to live with, especially on new hardware.
All of this points to the need for a performance profile that is radically different from an iPad. As such if we don't see real improvements in CPU performance then the overall experience on the platform will decline. The fact is the hardware isn't there yet to justify a fanless Air.
Once they go fanless then they can keep improving the performance just like the iPad. It means people who want MBP performance in an Air so they don't have to pay more will have to keep upgrading for another 3-4 years to reach that and that's the whole point.
The whole point here is that they can keep a 15 watt power profile in the Airs and do so for the foreseeable future and garner the benefits that a 15 watt solution can offer. I'm not agianst a fanless machine by the way I just don't want to see the Air turned into a minor upgrade from a tablet.
These chip updates seem so lame and boring. Always focusing on power consumption. Battery life is fine on laptops and most people plug them in anyway. Give us more raw power.
I am in the market for a retina iMac within the next 1-3 months, for those in the know... Is it worth waiting for the next cpu spec upgrade?
I've got one of the base-model Retina iMac's on my bench right now getting setup for someone, and the performance definitely seems great to me. Although personally, I'd take it with the i7 and at least 16GB RAM and the 512SSD option, and the Radeon M295X chip; base model has the i5, 8GB, 1TB fusion, and M290X.
Makes sense really in this case, skylake is expected to come out in the second half of this year, meaning broadwell will have only been on the market for a few months maybe a little bit longer than half a year before the skylake processors come out. Intel has been hyping skylake as being biggest improvement in CPU x86 designs in 10 years.
Why settle for Skylake when 2016 is only months afterwards and you can get the next hyped processor? And if you wait until 2017, the next processor after that will make you salivate even more. Never, ever buy current gen processor, always wait for the next one.
I've saved a lot of money with the above philosophy.
This can't come with a significant performance regression! This is why the GPU performance increases seen in these chips are so important, Broadwell should allow Apple to go retina without a serious blow to performance.
The current Air can drive a 27" 1440p Thunderbolt display, which is around the same as the 13" rMBP resolution. Even at 7.5W, Broadwell should match that.
The point is a chip set upon which one can implement new devices.
The point is always performance! MBA's success is directly tied to Apples and Intels ability to increase performance.
This can't come with a significant performance regression! This is why the GPU performance increases seen in these chips are so important, Broadwell should allow Apple to go retina without a serious blow to performance.
Again I don't see the point in fanless at the moment. It is frankly marketing nonsense to try to get people to ignore the stagnation in platform CPU performance. I already have a fanless solution in IPad which is a great platform. When I Turn to a Mac I'm not looking for iPad like performance, rather im trying to get things done.
YOur logic fails to impress here. The Air and the iPad serve different use cases, the whole point of a laptop these days is to access the capability of a more robust operating system. An operating system by the way that has become more and more demanding upon the hardware it runs on. Of course that bloat and performance regressions aren't exactly welcomed but it is what we have to live with, especially on new hardware.
All of this points to the need for a performance profile that is radically different from an iPad. As such if we don't see real improvements in CPU performance then the overall experience on the platform will decline. The fact is the hardware isn't there yet to justify a fanless Air.
The whole point here is that they can keep a 15 watt power profile in the Airs and do so for the foreseeable future and garner the benefits that a 15 watt solution can offer. I'm not agianst a fanless machine by the way I just don't want to see the Air turned into a minor upgrade from a tablet.
That is certainly bound to happen at some point;
But I love that design soooooooo much, I just can't imagine how they could improve it. I've tried, and I just can't.
(Talking about the case here)
It's very easy to improve, remove trackpad and keyboard (who can type on a such an ackward positioned notebook keyboard) and make it one slate.
I'd be surprised if the Thunderbolt port and mag-safe are removed, I don't think that's necessary. It cuts out access to high-end peripherals for the majority of Apple's customers.
Mag-safe can be replaced by an induction connector with no exposed pins. That means they can go back to using the L-shape connector. They probably went back to T-shape as L-shape can pull the laptop if it's pulled behind the display. It could even be a curve to attach to the corner curve and the cable would sit diagonal to the laptop. This connector can go at the back left, Thunderbolt can go on the back right with the headphones, SD reader and USB C ports in some configuration.
A future Thunderbolt has a USB 3 mode so they could get rid of USB ports entirely and you'd just use a TB to USB 3 cable to connect peripherals but I think it makes sense to have USB C as it's small anyway.
The current Air can drive a 27" 1440p Thunderbolt display, which is around the same as the 13" rMBP resolution. Even at 7.5W, Broadwell should match that.
Current Intel integrated graphics, especially in the Airs, do not drive high resolution displays well especially when we are talking about 3D performance. The hope is that Broadwell addresses this issue. In fact what we know of Broadwell at this time indicates to me that a 15 watt implementation in the current Air chassis, would be one nice upgrade.
The iPad Air 2 benchmarks faster than the Iris in the current Macbook Air for graphics and only a little behind in CPU performance.
If you take a look at the rumor 9-5 is reporting you will see a laptop that represents my greatest fear and is why I'm trying to draw a distinction between the needs of an IPad and the needs of a laptop users. I don't need an iPAd with keyboard solution when talking about laptops. If this ends up being the only Air solution I will be very disappointed with Apple as I'm really expecting an upgrade to the Airs not a down grade.
By the way what I'm trying to say is that my needs are not meant with this new rumored laptop. To put it simply I need ports, USB ports especially. In fact I would have preferred to see more USB ports on Apples laptops. I'm sure many will dive in and buy this rumored device but if 9-5 is right it is hardly the machine for me.
I can see Apple being aggressive with pricing of this machine though. There won't be much to it so I can easily see a $699 price tag.
The iPad is a Retina fanless device.
Exactly.
The hardware is there. Other manufacturers are going this way already.
You still mis the point I'm trying to make or willfully ignoring it. The point is the just released 15 watt Broadwells could make for a very compelling machine if slotted into the current MBA's. The hardware is there and I simply have no need for that hardware in a machine as described by 9-5.
It already is that; it's actually a slight downgrade considering the lower resolution and display quality.
Actually I have to disagree strongly here, Air is the best that can be had in its form factor. I have no doubt high resolution displays will come and with it improved display quality. However what makes Air a significant step up from a tablet, in its current form, is the access to ports on the device and Mac OS. The machine is no where near as limited as the current crop of tablets. Air in fact is a very capable laptop that can only be improved via a 15 watt Broadwell.
I'm sure some will find such a machine attractive, maybe even desirable, I just have a hard time accepting what 9-5 has described.
I'd be surprised if the Thunderbolt port and mag-safe are removed, I don't think that's necessary. It cuts out access to high-end peripherals for the majority of Apple's customers.
Im just as concerned about low end stuff.
In many ways the current Air is a fantastic machine for tinkerers and others that want a light and portable laptop that can easily hook up to their little embedded project. It is easy to pack up and take to where ever you need to go to hook up. Dropping the legacy ports just drops the machine from consideration.
Mag-safe can be replaced by an induction connector with no exposed pins. That means they can go back to using the L-shape connector.
That would actually be nice but in efficient. I wouldn't doubt that inductive charging would result in some internal debate at Apple due to their desire to be seen as a green company.
What I fear here is that Apple will implement a simple hub of sorts into the power supply. The idea being that his would be an acceptable way to replace the missing ports (it isn't).
They probably went back to T-shape as L-shape can pull the laptop if it's pulled behind the display. It could even be a curve to attach to the corner curve and the cable would sit diagonal to the laptop. This connector can go at the back left, Thunderbolt can go on the back right with the headphones, SD reader and USB C ports in some configuration.
I'm a bit miffed at the removal of an SD slot too. I'm not sure what the motivation for doing so would be as it doesn't take up much space and is a widely used storage interface.
A future Thunderbolt has a USB 3 mode so they could get rid of USB ports entirely and you'd just use a TB to USB 3 cable to connect peripherals but I think it makes sense to have USB C as it's small anyway.
If the machine doesn't support a standard USB port it is and will be pretty useless. I have to wonder if anybody at Apple ever uses a thumb drive.
If the machine doesn't support a standard USB port it is and will be pretty useless. I have to wonder if anybody at Apple ever uses a thumb drive.
There will be USB-C to USB-A cables but companies will make USB-C thumb drives. This will be like USB 3 where everyone migrates to it but Apple will be one of the few to move to it without support of the older style.
I'd be surprised if the Thunderbolt port and mag-safe are removed, I don't think that's necessary. It cuts out access to high-end peripherals for the majority of Apple's customers.
I can't see a magnetic connector going away but I could see TB going away if Apple finally offers an ARM-based notebook. The customers that would fit a low-cost, low-perfoamnce, entry-level notebook are not likely the same customers that would be buying TB-connected peripherals. That said, I do think a 12" will be replacing both the 11" and 13" MBAs now that 13" MBP is so thin and light without the HDD and ODD, and I think it will be Intel-based.
How do Apple’s USB 3 ports not support USB 1 or 2? Or am I misunderstanding.
I'm not following either. Apple moved to USB 3.0 on their Macs and per the standard it inherently supports the older USB standards. I don't see how or why Apple would want to prevent USB 2.0, for instance, from working on their Macs. Do keyboards and mice need to be USB 3.0?
There will be USB-C to USB-A cables but companies will make USB-C thumb drives. This will be like USB 3 where everyone migrates to it but Apple will be one of the few to move to it without support of the older style.
Sure that is possible but who in the hell would want to carry a bunch of adapter cables around with them. Honestly This is a pain and hardens back to the days of RS232 and needing a different cable configuration for just about every DB connect you would plug into.
The lack of legacy support truly sucks here, you would think that they would value that a bit. It will especially suck if this machine replaces the entire Air lineup.
I mean, I’m totally fine with dropping USB A completely for USB C. Smaller port, reversible, etc.
To go to a single port, no way!
But geez, ports ports ports. Let’s just get on a WEIRD and end this madness once and for all.
They don't need to get weird, just support USB 3 for a decent amount of time. Further don't gimp the machine with a single port of any type. Just the way that I use thumb drives would preclude even considering a Mac like this with a single type C port.
That’s Wireless Extensible Interface: Robust… Data… or something.
Like Wi-Fi but for a single device and like Bluetooth but actually good and with a decent amount of bandwidth.
Or, heck, just give Bluetooth 5 the bandwidth to make not using it nonsense.
Bluetooth has its uses but like a lot of things Apple related it got hammered by licensing deals that no one would rationally sign up for. The companies associated with Bluetooth should have made it as easy to design in as a USB port. These days micro controllers with USB built in are a dime a dozen. From what I can see Bluettoth was never designed to be that broadly implemented with the IP owners more concerned about themselves than the platform.
Sucks really because there have been dozens of RF based protocols designed over the last few years and not a one of them has caught on. Granted some for uses outside mainstream computing but the point is there isn't an RF link out there that has achieved the acceptance of USB and the broad implementation of USB on all sorts of hardware. So you are right it would be nice to have something that doesn't suck and can easily be implemented into a micro controller just like USB is.
So who do we get in industry to deliver this mythical RF interface. It won't be Apple as they have stunted growth with their MiFi program when it comes to Bluetooth. Intel is big with WiFi but that isn't exactly a low overhead approach to device I/O. Right now it jut looks like RF device I/O is a dead end. Even if there was an RF solution it doesn't address the legacy issues associated with all of the currently installed USB based devices out there.
On something like this rumored machine I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple pull Bluetooth out of the machine too. If they are going to delete useful I/O they might as well get rid of the useless ports.
I could see TB going away if Apple finally offers an ARM-based notebook.
It wouldn't be fully compatible with the Thunderbolt display and no target mode. The Air is their biggest selling machine, I imagine they'd want to maintain that functionality.
USB C is 2.6mm tall, type A is 4.5mm, Thunderbolt is 4.5mm so it gives them more freedom to shrink things going type C only but I reckon Magsafe can go at the back on the left and TB and audio jack on the right and then taper it sharply with two USB C on the left and SD slot on the right.
How do Apple’s USB 3 ports not support USB 1 or 2? Or am I misunderstanding.
The last part of the sentence wasn't about USB 3, that was just about type C. I expect other manufacturers to include both USB 3 and type C ports like here:
In the case of USB C, I expect Apple will just drop the standard USB 3 ports. They should still be compatible with devices but you'd just need a different cable. Flash drives will come out in type C and mouse adaptors probably will too. The USB type C will be the only ports used on some tablets so it'll get support.
It's not just a version of USB like micro-USB, it's the next iteration so people are going to have to support it.
who in the hell would want to carry a bunch of adapter cables around with them
If you have a USB drive, you already take a cable, you'd just take a different one. You'd only use an adaptor if you have mouse dongles or flash drives until you replaced those with type C ones.
It wouldn't be fully compatible with the Thunderbolt display and no target mode. The Air is their biggest selling machine, I imagine they'd want to maintain that functionality.
1) How many people buying MBAs are hooking them up to $1000+ Apple display?
2) Why can't it have the mDP port and output to the display as DP?
Comments
All of this points to the need for a performance profile that is radically different from an iPad. As such if we don't see real improvements in CPU performance then the overall experience on the platform will decline. The fact is the hardware isn't there yet to justify a fanless Air.
The whole point here is that they can keep a 15 watt power profile in the Airs and do so for the foreseeable future and garner the benefits that a 15 watt solution can offer. I'm not agianst a fanless machine by the way I just don't want to see the Air turned into a minor upgrade from a tablet.
I've saved a lot of money with the above philosophy.
Written on my late 2005 MBP.
The current Air can drive a 27" 1440p Thunderbolt display, which is around the same as the 13" rMBP resolution. Even at 7.5W, Broadwell should match that.
The iPad Air 2 benchmarks faster than the Iris in the current Macbook Air for graphics and only a little behind in CPU performance.
The iPad is a Retina fanless device. The hardware is there. Other manufacturers are going this way already.
It already is that; it's actually a slight downgrade considering the lower resolution and display quality.
The point is a chip set upon which one can implement new devices.
The point is always performance! MBA's success is directly tied to Apples and Intels ability to increase performance.
This can't come with a significant performance regression! This is why the GPU performance increases seen in these chips are so important, Broadwell should allow Apple to go retina without a serious blow to performance.
Again I don't see the point in fanless at the moment. It is frankly marketing nonsense to try to get people to ignore the stagnation in platform CPU performance. I already have a fanless solution in IPad which is a great platform. When I Turn to a Mac I'm not looking for iPad like performance, rather im trying to get things done.
YOur logic fails to impress here. The Air and the iPad serve different use cases, the whole point of a laptop these days is to access the capability of a more robust operating system. An operating system by the way that has become more and more demanding upon the hardware it runs on. Of course that bloat and performance regressions aren't exactly welcomed but it is what we have to live with, especially on new hardware.
All of this points to the need for a performance profile that is radically different from an iPad. As such if we don't see real improvements in CPU performance then the overall experience on the platform will decline. The fact is the hardware isn't there yet to justify a fanless Air.
The whole point here is that they can keep a 15 watt power profile in the Airs and do so for the foreseeable future and garner the benefits that a 15 watt solution can offer. I'm not agianst a fanless machine by the way I just don't want to see the Air turned into a minor upgrade from a tablet.
It's very easy to improve, remove trackpad and keyboard (who can type on a such an ackward positioned notebook keyboard) and make it one slate.
http://9to5mac.com/2015/01/06/macbook-air-12-inch-redesign/
[IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/53976/width/500/height/1000[/IMG]
[IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/53977/width/500/height/1000[/IMG]
I reported on it months ago
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/181878/questionable-leaks-raise-hopes-that-apple-will-release-new-lightning-cable-with-reversible-usb-connector#post_2581357
I'd be surprised if the Thunderbolt port and mag-safe are removed, I don't think that's necessary. It cuts out access to high-end peripherals for the majority of Apple's customers.
Mag-safe can be replaced by an induction connector with no exposed pins. That means they can go back to using the L-shape connector. They probably went back to T-shape as L-shape can pull the laptop if it's pulled behind the display. It could even be a curve to attach to the corner curve and the cable would sit diagonal to the laptop. This connector can go at the back left, Thunderbolt can go on the back right with the headphones, SD reader and USB C ports in some configuration.
A future Thunderbolt has a USB 3 mode so they could get rid of USB ports entirely and you'd just use a TB to USB 3 cable to connect peripherals but I think it makes sense to have USB C as it's small anyway.
By the way what I'm trying to say is that my needs are not meant with this new rumored laptop. To put it simply I need ports, USB ports especially. In fact I would have preferred to see more USB ports on Apples laptops. I'm sure many will dive in and buy this rumored device but if 9-5 is right it is hardly the machine for me.
I can see Apple being aggressive with pricing of this machine though. There won't be much to it so I can easily see a $699 price tag. Exactly. You still mis the point I'm trying to make or willfully ignoring it. The point is the just released 15 watt Broadwells could make for a very compelling machine if slotted into the current MBA's. The hardware is there and I simply have no need for that hardware in a machine as described by 9-5.
Actually I have to disagree strongly here, Air is the best that can be had in its form factor. I have no doubt high resolution displays will come and with it improved display quality. However what makes Air a significant step up from a tablet, in its current form, is the access to ports on the device and Mac OS. The machine is no where near as limited as the current crop of tablets. Air in fact is a very capable laptop that can only be improved via a 15 watt Broadwell.
In many ways the current Air is a fantastic machine for tinkerers and others that want a light and portable laptop that can easily hook up to their little embedded project. It is easy to pack up and take to where ever you need to go to hook up. Dropping the legacy ports just drops the machine from consideration. That would actually be nice but in efficient. I wouldn't doubt that inductive charging would result in some internal debate at Apple due to their desire to be seen as a green company.
What I fear here is that Apple will implement a simple hub of sorts into the power supply. The idea being that his would be an acceptable way to replace the missing ports (it isn't). I'm a bit miffed at the removal of an SD slot too. I'm not sure what the motivation for doing so would be as it doesn't take up much space and is a widely used storage interface.
If the machine doesn't support a standard USB port it is and will be pretty useless. I have to wonder if anybody at Apple ever uses a thumb drive.
There will be USB-C to USB-A cables but companies will make USB-C thumb drives. This will be like USB 3 where everyone migrates to it but Apple will be one of the few to move to it without support of the older style.
I can't see a magnetic connector going away but I could see TB going away if Apple finally offers an ARM-based notebook. The customers that would fit a low-cost, low-perfoamnce, entry-level notebook are not likely the same customers that would be buying TB-connected peripherals. That said, I do think a 12" will be replacing both the 11" and 13" MBAs now that 13" MBP is so thin and light without the HDD and ODD, and I think it will be Intel-based.
How do Apple’s USB 3 ports not support USB 1 or 2? Or am I misunderstanding.
I'm not following either. Apple moved to USB 3.0 on their Macs and per the standard it inherently supports the older USB standards. I don't see how or why Apple would want to prevent USB 2.0, for instance, from working on their Macs. Do keyboards and mice need to be USB 3.0?
I mean, I’m totally fine with dropping USB A completely for USB C. Smaller port, reversible, etc.
But geez, ports ports ports. Let’s just get on a WEIRD and end this madness once and for all.
That’s Wireless Extensible Interface: Robust… Data… or something.
Like Wi-Fi but for a single device and like Bluetooth but actually good and with a decent amount of bandwidth.
Or, heck, just give Bluetooth 5 the bandwidth to make not using it nonsense.
Sure that is possible but who in the hell would want to carry a bunch of adapter cables around with them. Honestly This is a pain and hardens back to the days of RS232 and needing a different cable configuration for just about every DB connect you would plug into.
The lack of legacy support truly sucks here, you would think that they would value that a bit. It will especially suck if this machine replaces the entire Air lineup.
Bluetooth has its uses but like a lot of things Apple related it got hammered by licensing deals that no one would rationally sign up for. The companies associated with Bluetooth should have made it as easy to design in as a USB port. These days micro controllers with USB built in are a dime a dozen. From what I can see Bluettoth was never designed to be that broadly implemented with the IP owners more concerned about themselves than the platform.
Sucks really because there have been dozens of RF based protocols designed over the last few years and not a one of them has caught on. Granted some for uses outside mainstream computing but the point is there isn't an RF link out there that has achieved the acceptance of USB and the broad implementation of USB on all sorts of hardware. So you are right it would be nice to have something that doesn't suck and can easily be implemented into a micro controller just like USB is.
So who do we get in industry to deliver this mythical RF interface. It won't be Apple as they have stunted growth with their MiFi program when it comes to Bluetooth. Intel is big with WiFi but that isn't exactly a low overhead approach to device I/O. Right now it jut looks like RF device I/O is a dead end. Even if there was an RF solution it doesn't address the legacy issues associated with all of the currently installed USB based devices out there.
On something like this rumored machine I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple pull Bluetooth out of the machine too. If they are going to delete useful I/O they might as well get rid of the useless ports.
It wouldn't be fully compatible with the Thunderbolt display and no target mode. The Air is their biggest selling machine, I imagine they'd want to maintain that functionality.
USB C is 2.6mm tall, type A is 4.5mm, Thunderbolt is 4.5mm so it gives them more freedom to shrink things going type C only but I reckon Magsafe can go at the back on the left and TB and audio jack on the right and then taper it sharply with two USB C on the left and SD slot on the right.
The last part of the sentence wasn't about USB 3, that was just about type C. I expect other manufacturers to include both USB 3 and type C ports like here:
http://www.overclock3d.net/articles/cpu_mainboard/msi_show_off_usb_3_1_and_reversible_usb_type-c/1
In the case of USB C, I expect Apple will just drop the standard USB 3 ports. They should still be compatible with devices but you'd just need a different cable. Flash drives will come out in type C and mouse adaptors probably will too. The USB type C will be the only ports used on some tablets so it'll get support.
It's not just a version of USB like micro-USB, it's the next iteration so people are going to have to support it.
If you have a USB drive, you already take a cable, you'd just take a different one. You'd only use an adaptor if you have mouse dongles or flash drives until you replaced those with type C ones.
1) How many people buying MBAs are hooking them up to $1000+ Apple display?
2) Why can't it have the mDP port and output to the display as DP?