Apple's rumored 12" MacBook Air may aggressively target mobility with USB 3.1 Type-C

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  • Reply 181 of 227
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    psilo wrote: »
    It would be nice if the power supply doubled as a 'dock' with expanded i/o options if there's to be only one i/o port on the device itself.

    That would certainly help many users! However is still need conventional USB ports when mobile. This is what makes this discussion so difficult, the design seems to deny that some of the people most in need of an ultra mobile are the same ones that are out in the field actually wanting to use the USB ports.
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  • Reply 182 of 227

    Yeah, though the rumor is one port I don't see why putting 2 on the final device would be an issue.  Even still though, I'd be just fine with one port.  If this device turned out to be a 1 port non-retina MBA for 400 it would eat up a lot of the 200 dollar 'netbook purchases out there in an instant.  I think this speculative product is for the people who barely ever, if at all, use physical I/O on their netbooks, obviously this is not meant to be someones only computer.  Think of all the students who bring a laptop to class, this would be perfect for 90% of them who are taking notes, reading a pdf, etc. and would rather be running iOS and would like to not maybe bring a full 900-1500 dollar out into the wild for that task.  The confusing part for me is the "retina" display rumors, that to me feels high end where a single port for charging/io says 'budget' 

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  • Reply 183 of 227
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  • Reply 184 of 227
    v900v900 Posts: 101member
    It's an atrocious idea. People are still heavily dependent on USB sticks, USB mice and printer cables. (But you can just get a wireless mouse! Then why keep the mini jack port? There are also plenty of wireless headsets!)

    Or Ethernet for that matter. (Yes I know the current Air doesn't have that. But it's an option through the USB port, for those of us who need a wired connection, or who work in a place where wireless isn't allowed.)

    Most of the MacBook owners I know use one or both USB ports often. Even if it's for something like charging an iPhone.

    If you're sitting in the airport waiting for your plane with this MacBook, you can't charge your MacBook and iPhone at the same time. Have to pull out the phone charger if you want to charge the laptop, or run around to find another outlet,

    Stupid.

    The whole reason why Apple strove for thinness and lightness in the first place, was to make our lives easier. The difference between a 6 pound laptop and a 3 pound laptop makes my bag all the more comfortable. But the difference between 3 pounds and 2 pounds? Who cares, if that means you lose features like MagSafe, or extra ports.

    I mean sure, we could just toss all the old stuff out, and buy new wireless mice, printers etc. and move the contents of all USB drives onto the cloud. But... Weren't computers supposed to make our lives easier and adapt to them? Instead of us adapting our lives to fit them?
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  • Reply 185 of 227
    bdkennedy1bdkennedy1 Posts: 1,459member

    I really don't think Apple is going to use a brand new connector when they just spent several years creating the Lightning port.

     

    If anything they will likely make the port on the MacBook Air a Lightning port to match the iPad and iPhone.

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  • Reply 186 of 227
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    bdkennedy1 wrote: »
    I really don't think Apple is going to use a brand new connector when they just spent several years creating the Lightning port.

    If anything they will likely make the port on the MacBook Air a Lightning port to match the iPad and iPhone.

    Lightning? I don't think it can carry much more than the 12W it's doing now. If believe the adapters for the notebooks are around 85W, so Lightning is out. There's some info in here:

    http://www.pocketables.com/2012/12/hardware-comparison-lightning-connector-vs-microusb-connector.html
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  • Reply 187 of 227
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    ^ 1.21 gigawatts, surely? :)
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  • Reply 188 of 227
    Dan_Dilgerdan_dilger Posts: 1,584member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

     

    I really don't think Apple is going to use a brand new connector when they just spent several years creating the Lightning port.

     

    If anything they will likely make the port on the MacBook Air a Lightning port to match the iPad and iPhone.




    Lightning was introduced in late 2012 on iPhone 5

    Thunderbolt was introduced in early 2011 on MBPs and then iMacs.

    TB 2 first appeared on late 2013 rMBPs, suggesting that Lightning 2 is, if anything, overdue.

     

    Currently, Lightning is a physical peripheral port/jack. It isn't intended to replace USB 2.0 ports on a computer, and does lots of things that USB 2.0 does not do. 

     

    USB 3.1 and the Type C connector are intended to replace USB 2.0 ports on a computer. Additionally, the new standard addresses new features that aren't relevant to existing iOS devices (such as providing TB-like throughput speeds). All Apple would need to do to support existing Lightning devices from USB 3.1 Type C is to offer an adapter and/or new TypeC-Lightning cables.

     

    ?It would also be trivial to deliver "Lightning 2" on future iOS devices that remained backwards compatible with today's USB 2.0 cables, as well as supporting faster data/charging when used with a USB 3.1 computer or charger. If Apple needed to add another set of pins to do that, it would be easy to split today's Lightning contacts into multiple sets of conductors, retaining the same ruggedized, water resistant physical design, and use some basic handshaking to determine if it should use Lightning or Lightning 2 protocols. 

     

    Such a move could bring all the features of USB 3.1 and Type C to Apple's new devices without necessitating a larger, clunkier jack. Alternatively, Apple could simply brand TypeC as Lightning 2, but then it would appear to lose its proprietary edge in licensing Lightning 2's physical adapter.

     

    On the other hand, it would enable simple cables with Type C connectors on each end, which would function like RJ-45 Ethernet cables, so it didn't matter how you roped devices together, or which end you plug into which. 

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  • Reply 189 of 227
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member

    ^ I think you rather downplay some of Apple's engineering expertise with this talk of "trivial" and "easy".

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  • Reply 190 of 227
    dacloodacloo Posts: 890member
    So, if they'd sell a breakout box then it would be okay. E.g:

    USB 3.1 to:
    - 2x USB
    - SD card reader
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ethernet

    If the USB port is used for charging the MacBook, I would like to be able to hook up the breakout box to the MacBook, and powering the breakout box itself.

    Probably not gonna happen :-)
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  • Reply 191 of 227
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    dacloo wrote: »
    So, if they'd sell a breakout box then it would be okay. E.g:
    Err no a breakout box isn't OK. It blows the whole reason for having a compact laptop out of the water.
    USB 3.1 to:
    - 2x USB
    - SD card reader
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ethernet
    I'm most perplexed by the deletion of the SD card reader as that does not have a thickness problem.

    If the USB port is used for charging the MacBook, I would like to be able to hook up the breakout box to the MacBook, and powering the breakout box itself.

    Probably not gonna happen :-)

    If the leaks are correct we already know what will happen. That is why many are frustrated.

    Man can IPad auto correct be frustrating.
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  • Reply 192 of 227
    pfisherpfisher Posts: 758member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dbcoyle View Post



    After years of searching and watching the Apple keynotes.... I have yet to see any survey or study that shows (a) Apple customers want fewer ports and choices of interfacing with the real world, and (b) that removing ports promotes innovation. I'm still using my wide array of firewire drives at work and home. USB still can't touch it in real speed. I don't understand.... Bluetooth devices (especially mice) eat batteries for snacks, and always die at the most important times. USB works because it's convenient and adaptable. No it's not fast, but it is reliable. Just because Apple didn't invent USB, doesn't mean it's not a good idea that (yes) promotes innovation. I still have my 2009 MacBook Pro, with a new 980gig SSHD because it has firewire, 2 USB ports, magsafe, ethernet, SSD, earphone jack, and the apple display port (pre-thuderbolt). And I use ALL of these ports at least once a week. sigh...

    A single laptop model in their line with one port is just fine. Their other machines can have all of the other ports. People will have a choice of what computer to buy.

     

    I rarely ever use ports on my MacBook Pro. They are not really useful most of the time and for a lot of people.  

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  • Reply 193 of 227
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    pfisher wrote: »
    A single laptop model in their line with one port is just fine. Their other machines can have all of the other ports. People will have a choice of what computer to buy.
    Actually that isn't clear at all. It looks like this machine might completely replace the 11" Air.
    I rarely ever use ports on my MacBook Pro. They are not really useful most of the time and for a lot of people.  

    They are useful anytime you need them. There great for thumb drives for keeping hot backups, I for example setup Eclipse to copy fresh files to a thumb drive. The interesting thing here is that that functionality could be replaced by an SD card but yet the rumor indicates that SD cards are also gone. Another use is a USB to whatever cable for interfacing to embedded devices.

    I'm still wondering if this machine is some sort of IOS device that has been confused with a laptop. In any event hopefully something will ship real soon now.
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  • Reply 194 of 227
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,424member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lundkeman View Post



    So taking the MBA,... Let's also drop the expensive Intel CPU and in with the A8X or A9, OS X or iOS.

     

    Not gonna happen.

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  • Reply 195 of 227
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,424member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

     

    How about built-in induction charging hardware in the rMBA so you can have a charging mat on your work desk if you so wish. You can just take your rMBA at any time without disconnecting cables and it will be fully charged.


     

    I don't see inductive charging as a very Apple-like solution. It's way too much complexity that doesn't solve any problems. You need to have this bulky charging pad always hogging desktop space whether or not it's in use, you have to lug the thing around while traveling, and in the end it still requires direct contact. Pointless.

     

    Apple is using it for their watch because it allows a convenient, magnetic connection without any sockets to mess up the watch's design, and the charging cable's connector is as small as the watch itself, making it about as easy to carry around as a regular charging cable.

     

    But for computers, I think Apple will hold off until they can deliver true wireless charging - likely via magnetic resonance.

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  • Reply 196 of 227
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    freediverx wrote: »
    Not gonna happen.

    Not going to happen specifically with the A8X or A9 or Apple will never make a low-cost traditional PC that with an ARM-based processor?
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  • Reply 197 of 227
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    freediverx wrote: »
    I don't see inductive charging as a very Apple-like solution. It's way too much complexity that doesn't solve any problems. You need to have this bulky charging pad always hogging desktop space whether or not it's in use, you have to lug the thing around while traveling, and in the end it still requires direct contact. Pointless.

    Apple is using it for their watch because it allows a convenient, magnetic connection without any sockets to mess up the watch's design, and the charging cable's connector is as small as the watch itself, making it about as easy to carry around as a regular charging cable.

    But for computers, I think Apple will hold off until they can deliver true wireless charging - likely via magnetic resonance.

    1) You can't say inductive charging is "very Apple-like," has "too much complexity," and "doesn't solve any problems" and then acknowledge that Apple is using it in a very Apple-like way that reduces complexity for the user and solves a major issue with frequent charging to a wearable device.

    2) I don't see a bulk charging pad for ?Watch so why assume there would be one for any other Apple product. Perhaps it's similar to their current MagSafe design or uses a larger charger that will clip magnetically to, say, the lower, left back of the display area, as an example. Perhaps the reason for this is so Apple can move to a more enclosed system, even though I don't see that happening. Regardless, what they do they for, say, a fanless traditional PC doesn't have to be what they do for the rest of the line.

    3) We know Apple isn't holding off because we've seen it with ?Watch, and I don't see "true wireless charging" being something that is coming to fruition anytime soon. The consumer technology simply isn't there, nor does it appear to be on the horizon.
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  • Reply 198 of 227
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,424member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    ?Im still looking for an Apple Bluetooth Headset NIB somewhere. Kicking myself for not getting one when the first-gen was still on sale.


     

    Stop kicking yourself. The apple bluetooth headset was beautiful yet hopelessly flawed - so much so that it was discontinued less than 2 years after its release. I still have mine - original box and accessories, looks like new - and the thing won't even turn on or show the charging indicator light. Even back when it worked, it didn't work well. Battery life, audio quality, and connection range & reliability were all poor.

     

    It's little more than a pretty collector's item at this point.

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  • Reply 199 of 227
    freediverxfreediverx Posts: 1,424member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    Not going to happen specifically with the A8X or A9 or Apple will never make a low-cost traditional PC that with an ARM-based processor?

     

    I don't see Apple migrating their computers to ARM-based processors in the foreseeable future. I think the benefits would be significantly outweighed by the loss of compatibility with Windows which, despite its low popularity ratings, remains a formidable force in the enterprise and some specific industries, as well as PC gaming. And that's on top of the burden on developers.

     

    Meanwhile, II think creating a third category in between iOS and OS X devices would needlessly complicate their product line and confuse potential customers, as Microsoft did with their failed Surface Pro & RT.

     

    Check out Dilger's recent article which sums it up nicely. He speculates that a more likely scenario is Apple making their own GPU on the Mac platform as they've done for iOS, snipping the cord with Intel, Nvidia, and AMD. He speculates that we may even see a move towards offloading more tasks to the GPU and relegating the CPU to task management duty.

     

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/01/26/after-eating-amd-nvidias-mobile-lunch-apple-inc-could-next-devour-their-desktop-gpu-business-

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  • Reply 200 of 227
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    freediverx wrote: »
    I don't see Apple migrating their computers to ARM-based processors in the foreseeable future.

    I'm not talking about migrating their computers. In the past I've mentioned this as being for budget traditional "PCs" which may or may not include Mac in the name, but that last part is about marketing.
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