Are the owners of this web site a bunch of Libertarian/FOX Neus hacks? Who give's a rat's behind whether they want to unionize. Grow a sack and talk tech.
I don't think you can find any exceptions. All unions are scum. They have no place in todays world.
Sure thing genius. Ask Boeing if it thinks it can even exist without the Engineering Union at Boeing. Just circle jerk on Serfdom as a feature in the political threads.
Sure thing genius. Ask Boeing if it thinks it can even exist without the Engineering Union at Boeing. Just circle jerk on Serfdom as a feature in the political threads.
Typical liberal garbage. You liberals and your stupid unions are running Boeing out of Washington. Boeing would do quite fine without the engineering union. There is a reason Boeing keeps moving jobs out of state. Boeing is doing quite well in South Carolina.
This is a tough but natural socioeconomic condition.. What these unions fail to recognize is that the wages paid to highly skilled, highly educated, and highly invested technology workers are based on market factors and competition for a limited pool of candidates. All of these tech companies are competing not only for workers locally but also globally. This situation doesn't apply to bus drivers. Unfortunately within the same region you have a vast disparity between parts of the population that are being compensated under vastly different sets of rules and different circumstances. Trying to normalize compensation and force entitlement equity based solely on proximity will drive up operating costs and encourage the jobs producing companies to move to locations that don't artificially manipulate free market factors, which like it or not, will always have disparity when competitive influences are in effect. If you want wage equality without recognizing personal risk, investment, education, experience, and market demand - move to Siberia.
You folks need to do some research on what it was like before unions. Unions are what got workers 40 hour work week, 8 hour days and safe working conditions. The corporate world had to be forced into treating workers fairly and be concerned with worker safety. With out a union how can employees negotiate with corporate lawyers? And as a retired teacher trust me, the teacher unions are not responsible for the failing of our schools, it's the bad decisions made by the district heads who can't wait for those bigger paychecks they'll get when schools are handed over to for profit charters. OK, there has been some corruption in some unions, show me an institution that hasn't. But when my brother was out of work, it was his union hall that got him work. He thinks it was worth every penny of his dues.
You folks need to do some research on what it was like before unions. Unions are what got workers 40 hour work week, 8 hour days and safe working conditions. The corporate world had to be forced into treating workers fairly and be concerned with worker safety. With out a union how can employees negotiate with corporate lawyers? And as a retired teacher trust me, the teacher unions are not responsible for the failing of our schools, it's the bad decisions made by the district heads who can't wait for those bigger paychecks they'll get when schools are handed over to for profit charters. OK, there has been some corruption in some unions, show me an institution that hasn't. But when my brother was out of work, it was his union hall that got him work. He thinks it was worth every penny of his dues.
Unions don't serve a purpose anymore. You are way wrong. Teacher unions have ruined education in this country. Teacher unions only care about the interests of its members and not education. There are so many awful teachers who shouldn't even have a job, but you can't fire them thanks to the unions. I could go on and on about how bad the teacher unions are.
You folks need to do some research on what it was like before unions. Unions are what got workers 40 hour work week, 8 hour days and safe working conditions. The corporate world had to be forced into treating workers fairly and be concerned with worker safety. With out a union how can employees negotiate with corporate lawyers? And as a retired teacher trust me, the teacher unions are not responsible for the failing of our schools, it's the bad decisions made by the district heads who can't wait for those bigger paychecks they'll get when schools are handed over to for profit charters. OK, there has been some corruption in some unions, show me an institution that hasn't. But when my brother was out of work, it was his union hall that got him work. He thinks it was worth every penny of his dues.
IMO, public employee unions should all be illegal (not private sector employee unions, mind you...even though I believe the vast majority of unions have ultimately had damaging effects on business competitiveness in the US, they are still allowed for private citizens due to their constitutional right of freedom of association.)
I can't believe what a bunch of dicks some of you are the way you look down on blue collar workers. Do you think you can park a bus or handle a tractor trailer? It's a skill. Takes training and practice. Producers complain how much the below the line crew makes. Without the Teamsters, grips, electricians, art dogs, P.A.s and craft service and the rest of the crew the picture doesn't get made. It's our unions that give us 10 hour turn around time, meal breaks every 6 hours and a second meal if we go over 12 hours. I've been on non union films where they tried to get us to work 15 hours while paying a flat rate based on 10 hours. A call the DGA, or IATSE and production usually backs down. It's hard to replace a crew that walks. Public employees deserve the same as private sector workers. And on average public workers do not get paid more than private sector workers.
Wait 10 years when programmers and other tech workers are as common as lawyers and MBAs are today, and the market is flooded and demand is low. No more 6 figure pay checks. Why would Google pay top dollar when there is so much labor out there?
I can't believe what a bunch of dicks some of you are the way you look down on blue collar workers. Do you think you can park a bus or handle a tractor trailer? It's a skill. Takes training and practice. Producers complain how much the below the line crew makes. Without the Teamsters, grips, electricians, art dogs, P.A.s and craft service and the rest of the crew the picture doesn't get made. It's our unions that give us 10 hour turn around time, meal breaks every 6 hours and a second meal if we go over 12 hours. I've been on non union films where they tried to get us to work 15 hours while paying a flat rate based on 10 hours. A call the DGA, or IATSE and production usually backs down. It's hard to replace a crew that walks. Public employees deserve the same as private sector workers. And on average public workers do not get paid more than private sector workers.
Wait 10 years when programmers and other tech workers are as common as lawyers and MBAs are today, and the market is flooded and demand is low. No more 6 figure pay checks. Why would Google pay top dollar when there is so much labor out there?
Driverless cars may be todays jetpack.
Drivers are on the way out, this is just a fact. And we can thank public sector employee unions for pushing my state billions into debt with all of their unfunded liabilities. Unless the next US president makes some drastic changes we are headed for very tough times.
The left's view is no one should excel since that's not the norm. They want everyone to comply to their basic 'mould' and can't stand anything out of the ordinary.
Really? You'd better tell that to the current leader of the Labour Party - 'Red Ed' - an alumni of both Oxford University and the London School of Economics.
Unions are the reason the UK's cartoolironworkengineering entire manufacturing industry went bust.
Changing market conditions and increased competition from abroad had nothing to do with it then? And how about bad management? Those union workers at Jaguar and Land Rover seem to be doing just fine now that they're not British-owned.
It's a bit more realistic than jetpacks. Here is a good demo video, you can see how the software is able to drive using a combination of cameras, lasers and GPS.
It probably wouldn't hurt to pay those bus drivers a little more. Yes, supply and demand doesn't dictate it, but if you're rolling in dough it doesn't hurt to be a little generous. Someone who used to be a professional driver might be a good tester for auto drive software, like the woman in the video.
You folks need to do some research on what it was like before unions. Unions are what got workers 40 hour work week, 8 hour days and safe working conditions.
Agreed. Unions were instrumental in establishing a lot of the working conditions that we take for granted today, just like sailing ships were instrumental in helping to support global commerce in the 1800s. Times change. Today we have massive amounts of government oversight and regulations over worker safety and working conditions. Unions are largely a vestigial artifact of a bygone era, at least in most developed countries and even the SF Bay area.
What the unions are now doing is trying to force a minimum wage across businesses in a region because other residents in the same region receive higher wages than do the bus drivers. They want to share in the wealth created by industries and individuals in their region not because they contributed to this wealth but based strictly on their proximity to where the wealth is being created. It's like saying my neighbor got a raise because she built something that sold 10 million copies in 6 months therefore I deserve to get a raise too because we're neighbors. She's now driving an M5 and I'm still driving a beater Camry - and that is just not right. I deserve to share in her wealth.
Why would this ever make sense in a free market capitalist economy?
I don't question the skills of the bus drivers at all. What I am saying is that their compensation is determined by the market rate for bus drivers in their locality and the competition for their bus driving skills. The market rate for engineers, scientists, and technologists is established across a much broader scope and a different competitive environment. These two job categories are disconnected and only adjacent by physical proximity, something that is not factored into wage establishment. Living close to doctors doesn't mean you are entitled to doctor level wages. If the bus drivers were company employees I'm sure the situation would change.
Drivers are on the way out, this is just a fact. And we can thank public sector employee unions for pushing my state billions into debt with all of their unfunded liabilities. Unless the next US president makes some drastic changes we are headed for very tough times.
How many tax dollars has your 'state' misspent, and squandered?
Unions are not asking for the wage levels of engineers doctors. No union members has ever gotten rich. Whatever their faults are, unions are not outsourcing jobs, keeping wages low while CEO salaries go up thru the roof. Unions don't cause world wide recessions through market manipulation. For those of you that think the teacher unions are so bad, maybe you should outsource them to India.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe
What the unions are now doing is trying to force a minimum wage across businesses in a region because other residents in the same region receive higher wages than do the bus drivers. They want to share in the wealth created by industries and individuals in their region not because they contributed to this wealth but based strictly on their proximity to where the wealth is being created. It's like saying my neighbor got a raise because she built something that sold 10 million copies in 6 months therefore I deserve to get a raise too because we're neighbors. She's now driving an M5 and I'm still driving a beater Camry - and that is just not right. I deserve to share in her wealth.
That's actually how it works. When one sector gets more wealth, it has more money to spend on the increase standard of goods and services from other near by sectors; such as demanding more experienced well-paid bus drivers. When your neighbors increase their home value, it increases the real estate value around them.
Driving a bus is not exactly a high skilled job or a skill that requires extensive training
You could say the same thing about being a CEO at most companies. You could put a monkey in front of a series of buttons labelled 'Layoffs', 'Pay Freezes', 'Benefit Cuts', 'Outsourcing', 'Acquisition of Competitor', and 'Raises for Management' and just have him punch one of the buttons each quarter.
Driverless car hits someone or something. Who is liable? "Not me." says the passengers, "I wasn't driving." "Not me." says the manufacture "WE only made it." Insurance companies will kill the driverless car. No one is liable, no one to collect from.
Driverless car hits someone or something. Who is liable? "Not me." says the passengers, "I wasn't driving." "Not me." says the manufacture "WE only made it." Insurance companies will kill the driverless car. No one is liable, no one to collect from.
Indeed.
At any rate, there's on chance of driverless buses in five years, at least here in London. I don't think we will see them for decades, if ever.
Comments
Sure thing genius. Ask Boeing if it thinks it can even exist without the Engineering Union at Boeing. Just circle jerk on Serfdom as a feature in the political threads.
Sure thing genius. Ask Boeing if it thinks it can even exist without the Engineering Union at Boeing. Just circle jerk on Serfdom as a feature in the political threads.
Typical liberal garbage. You liberals and your stupid unions are running Boeing out of Washington. Boeing would do quite fine without the engineering union. There is a reason Boeing keeps moving jobs out of state. Boeing is doing quite well in South Carolina.
You folks need to do some research on what it was like before unions. Unions are what got workers 40 hour work week, 8 hour days and safe working conditions. The corporate world had to be forced into treating workers fairly and be concerned with worker safety. With out a union how can employees negotiate with corporate lawyers? And as a retired teacher trust me, the teacher unions are not responsible for the failing of our schools, it's the bad decisions made by the district heads who can't wait for those bigger paychecks they'll get when schools are handed over to for profit charters. OK, there has been some corruption in some unions, show me an institution that hasn't. But when my brother was out of work, it was his union hall that got him work. He thinks it was worth every penny of his dues.
You folks need to do some research on what it was like before unions. Unions are what got workers 40 hour work week, 8 hour days and safe working conditions. The corporate world had to be forced into treating workers fairly and be concerned with worker safety. With out a union how can employees negotiate with corporate lawyers? And as a retired teacher trust me, the teacher unions are not responsible for the failing of our schools, it's the bad decisions made by the district heads who can't wait for those bigger paychecks they'll get when schools are handed over to for profit charters. OK, there has been some corruption in some unions, show me an institution that hasn't. But when my brother was out of work, it was his union hall that got him work. He thinks it was worth every penny of his dues.
Unions don't serve a purpose anymore. You are way wrong. Teacher unions have ruined education in this country. Teacher unions only care about the interests of its members and not education. There are so many awful teachers who shouldn't even have a job, but you can't fire them thanks to the unions. I could go on and on about how bad the teacher unions are.
IMO, public employee unions should all be illegal (not private sector employee unions, mind you...even though I believe the vast majority of unions have ultimately had damaging effects on business competitiveness in the US, they are still allowed for private citizens due to their constitutional right of freedom of association.)
I can't believe what a bunch of dicks some of you are the way you look down on blue collar workers. Do you think you can park a bus or handle a tractor trailer? It's a skill. Takes training and practice. Producers complain how much the below the line crew makes. Without the Teamsters, grips, electricians, art dogs, P.A.s and craft service and the rest of the crew the picture doesn't get made. It's our unions that give us 10 hour turn around time, meal breaks every 6 hours and a second meal if we go over 12 hours. I've been on non union films where they tried to get us to work 15 hours while paying a flat rate based on 10 hours. A call the DGA, or IATSE and production usually backs down. It's hard to replace a crew that walks. Public employees deserve the same as private sector workers. And on average public workers do not get paid more than private sector workers.
Wait 10 years when programmers and other tech workers are as common as lawyers and MBAs are today, and the market is flooded and demand is low. No more 6 figure pay checks. Why would Google pay top dollar when there is so much labor out there?
Driverless cars may be todays jetpack.
Drivers are on the way out, this is just a fact. And we can thank public sector employee unions for pushing my state billions into debt with all of their unfunded liabilities. Unless the next US president makes some drastic changes we are headed for very tough times.
Gives me hope for civilization...
Really? You'd better tell that to the current leader of the Labour Party - 'Red Ed' - an alumni of both Oxford University and the London School of Economics.
Changing market conditions and increased competition from abroad had nothing to do with it then? And how about bad management? Those union workers at Jaguar and Land Rover seem to be doing just fine now that they're not British-owned.
Driverless cars may be todays jetpack.
It's a bit more realistic than jetpacks. Here is a good demo video, you can see how the software is able to drive using a combination of cameras, lasers and GPS.
It probably wouldn't hurt to pay those bus drivers a little more. Yes, supply and demand doesn't dictate it, but if you're rolling in dough it doesn't hurt to be a little generous. Someone who used to be a professional driver might be a good tester for auto drive software, like the woman in the video.
Agreed. Unions were instrumental in establishing a lot of the working conditions that we take for granted today, just like sailing ships were instrumental in helping to support global commerce in the 1800s. Times change. Today we have massive amounts of government oversight and regulations over worker safety and working conditions. Unions are largely a vestigial artifact of a bygone era, at least in most developed countries and even the SF Bay area.
What the unions are now doing is trying to force a minimum wage across businesses in a region because other residents in the same region receive higher wages than do the bus drivers. They want to share in the wealth created by industries and individuals in their region not because they contributed to this wealth but based strictly on their proximity to where the wealth is being created. It's like saying my neighbor got a raise because she built something that sold 10 million copies in 6 months therefore I deserve to get a raise too because we're neighbors. She's now driving an M5 and I'm still driving a beater Camry - and that is just not right. I deserve to share in her wealth.
Why would this ever make sense in a free market capitalist economy?
I don't question the skills of the bus drivers at all. What I am saying is that their compensation is determined by the market rate for bus drivers in their locality and the competition for their bus driving skills. The market rate for engineers, scientists, and technologists is established across a much broader scope and a different competitive environment. These two job categories are disconnected and only adjacent by physical proximity, something that is not factored into wage establishment. Living close to doctors doesn't mean you are entitled to doctor level wages. If the bus drivers were company employees I'm sure the situation would change.
How many tax dollars has your 'state' misspent, and squandered?
Unions are not asking for the wage levels of engineers doctors. No union members has ever gotten rich. Whatever their faults are, unions are not outsourcing jobs, keeping wages low while CEO salaries go up thru the roof. Unions don't cause world wide recessions through market manipulation. For those of you that think the teacher unions are so bad, maybe you should outsource them to India.
What the unions are now doing is trying to force a minimum wage across businesses in a region because other residents in the same region receive higher wages than do the bus drivers. They want to share in the wealth created by industries and individuals in their region not because they contributed to this wealth but based strictly on their proximity to where the wealth is being created. It's like saying my neighbor got a raise because she built something that sold 10 million copies in 6 months therefore I deserve to get a raise too because we're neighbors. She's now driving an M5 and I'm still driving a beater Camry - and that is just not right. I deserve to share in her wealth.
That's actually how it works. When one sector gets more wealth, it has more money to spend on the increase standard of goods and services from other near by sectors; such as demanding more experienced well-paid bus drivers. When your neighbors increase their home value, it increases the real estate value around them.
Driving a bus is not exactly a high skilled job or a skill that requires extensive training
You could say the same thing about being a CEO at most companies. You could put a monkey in front of a series of buttons labelled 'Layoffs', 'Pay Freezes', 'Benefit Cuts', 'Outsourcing', 'Acquisition of Competitor', and 'Raises for Management' and just have him punch one of the buttons each quarter.
Driverless car hits someone or something. Who is liable? "Not me." says the passengers, "I wasn't driving." "Not me." says the manufacture "WE only made it." Insurance companies will kill the driverless car. No one is liable, no one to collect from.
Indeed.
At any rate, there's on chance of driverless buses in five years, at least here in London. I don't think we will see them for decades, if ever.