Android 5.0 Lollipop still hard to find, full of bugs as Google shrugs off security flaws for 60% of

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  • Reply 21 of 91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

     

     

    Whatever you do don’t ask a Fandroid about why they aren’t running Lollipop on their phones. They get very upset and testy and defensive. They start spouting about how Android rules the world and iOS sucks. If you keep pressing them about Lollipop you risk the cornered rat response.




    Saying "iOS sucks" or "DED is biased" enough times actually fixes Android's problems. Alternatively, just tap your heals together three times and say "there's no place like Chrome". Works equally well.

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  • Reply 22 of 91
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,928member
    Open.

    Still I'm waiting for Googleguy for a rebuttal.
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  • Reply 23 of 91
    bobschlobbobschlob Posts: 1,074member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tenly View Post

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BobSchlob View Post



    "Android WebView is has an abysmal security record, which is significant because it is used throughout the system. One of its major flaws it that it incorporated"



    Hey Kasper's Slave, better correct your typos, or else the Fandroids will site them proof that everything you've said is completely false.




    And what will they say about *your* typo's?

    ("cite" vs "site")



    Dough!!!

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  • Reply 24 of 91
    Well I have to say that my son has had it on his Nexus 5 and my other son on his HTC One GPE for a month or more and with 5.0.1 at least for them it is very fast, intuitive and easy to use. I've had iPhones forever and the wife and I both still have them (5s and 6+). But Lollipop rivals the experience in most ways and exceeds it in others. The biggest issue is that it takes a pretty tech savvy person to be able to keep them maintained and running tip top. The cost of the Nexus 5 and the OPO for the experience we've seen so far is a steal.
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  • Reply 25 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

     



    Saying "iOS sucks" or "DED is biased" enough times actually fixes Android's problems. Alternatively, just tap your heals together three times and say "there's no place like Chrome". Works equally well.




    Nothing wrong with being biased towards a given platform, however when Daniel constantly rails against a given platform's insecurities (Android) while conveniently ignoring his favorite platform's own issues (such as this: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/184021/apple-releases-critical-security-update-for-os-x-ntp-services-vulnerability) all while doing so under sockpuppet aliases it smacks of intellectual dishonesty.

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  • Reply 26 of 91
    Android 5.0 Lollipop is so "shockingly bad it is basically unusable" - yet another unfair opinion. Has the article author been using the system for more than 1 hour, has he even seen it? I've been using the system on my Nexus 4 for about 1 and half month now, and I can't say that I would see any major problem with using it. I use variety of device features, and I think I've tested the phone more than most average users. I think that technical articles based on a few negative opinions collected are not really valuable. I think that most problematic topic for the Lollipop is that such misleading articles appears.
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  • Reply 27 of 91
    512ke wrote: »
    Come on, Google fans, where is the angry defense of Android?

    I am an iPhone 6 user but also a Nexus 5 and Nexus 9 user: my personal opinion is quite different from this article.

    Build quality of iPhone is significantly superior to Nexus devices, I see it every day holding devices in my hands. But Lollipop on Nexus is very good, even update from KitKat was a slim 484MB download, downloaded OTA and installed quickly, maintaining all settings, even widgets. On the contrary I was not able to restore 4S content on iphone 6, problems both from cloud and local backups.

    My strictly personal suggestion is to avoid this kind of articles.
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  • Reply 28 of 91
    Sadly, I feel that a lot of those woes are being replicated in iOS 8. As I was reading the list of bugs, I realised that I seemed to have read of the same ones and more on our side.

    What a load of crap. If company A has 1,000 complaints about their product and company B also has 1,000 complaints, does that make them equal? Hardly. If company A sold 1,000,000 devices then only 1/1,000 are complaining. If company B sold 1,000 devices then every single person who bought one has a complaint.

    This is how it is with iOS 8 vs Lollipop. iOS 8 has easily hit several hundred million users, and very likely hit 100 million within a week of launch. Lollipop is on so few devices it hasn't hit 0.1% months after launch. When it finally hits 0.1% then we'll know Lollipop has passed the 1 million mark.

    With software, the more users you have trying out all sorts of things developers never accounted for is the time bugs show up. I would expect lots of bugs to be discovered when an OS is suddenly being used by 100 million people. The fact that Lollipop has as many issues as iOS 8 is not good. Imagine the list of bugs if Google was ever able to get a new version of Android onto millions of devices days after launch?

    Apple had some bugs and one dumb mistake with iOS 8. Not bad considering the massive rollout.
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  • Reply 29 of 91
    jungmark wrote: »
    Open.

    Still I'm waiting for Googleguy for a rebuttal.

    Yes. How many times has he stated that Google Play Services provides updates and security patches? I've explained to him several times that items in the actual OS itself can't be patched by Google Play Services. And here we are, with a security flaw that Google Play can't fix and requires the OEMs to recompile and issue that patch themselves.
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  • Reply 30 of 91
    There's no schadenfreude to be had here, this is a suck sandwich for Android peoples on Jelly Bean or earlier. Most if not all of the Android OEMs will predictably drag their feet or do nothing and hope people will quietly upgrade their handsets; that is, after all, the most simplistic yet profitable fix of all.

    On the flip side, OEMs might simply update all handsets made in the last two years to Lollipop but I wouldn't hold my breath. Hardware limitations aside, the labor and engineering cost cuts into the bottom line and most Android manufacturers are not very profitable right now.
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  • Reply 31 of 91
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Why is half the OP struck through?
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  • Reply 32 of 91
    marvfoxmarvfox Posts: 2,275member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bradipao View Post





    I am an iPhone 6 user but also a Nexus 5 and Nexus 9 user: my personal opinion is quite different from this article.



    Build quality of iPhone is significantly superior to Nexus devices, I see it every day holding devices in my hands. But Lollipop on Nexus is very good, even update from KitKat was a slim 484MB download, downloaded OTA and installed quickly, maintaining all settings, even widgets. On the contrary I was not able to restore 4S content on iphone 6, problems both from cloud and local backups.



    My strictly personal suggestion is to avoid this kind of articles.

    Think what you want. You are right.

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  • Reply 33 of 91

    good thing it is the most customisable software, because if google will not help you, you can at least try to help yourself.

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  • Reply 34 of 91
    bobschlob wrote: »
    tenly wrote: »
     
    bobschlob wrote: »
    "Android WebView is has an abysmal security record, which is significant because it is used throughout the system. One of its major flaws it that it incorporated"


    Hey Kasper's Slave, better correct your typos, or else the Fandroids will site them proof that everything you've said is <span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px;">completely false.</span>


    And what will they say about *your* typo's?

    ("cite" vs "site")


    Dough!!!

    Good won!
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  • Reply 35 of 91
    croprcropr Posts: 1,149member
    My Google Nexeus 7 had an OTA update to Lollipop, and I did not do anything special. Is it usable? Yes, and it runs quite smoothly since 5.0.2. Is it prefect? Absolutely not. But is has the potential to become quite good, once all bug are solved. So it has its share of problems, like iOS8 had when launched and like Yosemite is still having (refusing half of the time to find my network printer).
    But what worries me much more is that Google stops providing security updates for Webview in Jellybean or lower. This is a disgrace to all users who own a Jellybean device and who cannot upgrade, because their device supplier does not release an upgrade to Kitkat or Lollipop. A class action must be in the making
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  • Reply 36 of 91
    bradipao wrote: »

    My strictly personal suggestion is to avoid this kind of articles.

    But we gotcha to click on the story!! Ha ha... Made ya do it!! Woohoo!!!
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  • Reply 37 of 91
    juanguapo wrote: »
    There's no schadenfreude to be had here, this is a suck sandwich for Android peoples on Jelly Bean or earlier. Most if not all of the Android OEMs will predictably drag their feet or do nothing and hope people will quietly upgrade their handsets; that is, after all, the most simplistic yet profitable fix of all.

    On the flip side, OEMs might simply update all handsets made in the last two years to Lollipop but I wouldn't hold my breath. Hardware limitations aside, the labor and engineering cost cuts into the bottom line and most Android manufacturers are not very profitable right now.

    There's a third, and highly possible alternative, and that is a lot of Android users with escape their nightmare and upgrade to Apple. Now that the exploit available is well known, it will become well used too. After all 61% of them have their economic asses hanging in the wind and ripe for the picking.

    The allure of the iPhone is at its peak: Touch ID that really works, hooked up with ApplePay that is uber secure... no need even mentioning the other unique assets of the iPhone; this combo is enough to bring them over to the bright side.
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  • Reply 38 of 91
    lkrupp wrote: »
    Whatever you do don’t ask a Fandroid about why they aren’t running Lollipop on their phones. They get very upset and testy and defensive. They start spouting about how Android rules the world and iOS sucks. If you keep pressing them about Lollipop you risk the cornered rat response.

    Out of interest, what is the cornered rat's response?
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  • Reply 39 of 91
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,772member
    jungmark wrote: »
    Open.

    Still I'm waiting for Googleguy for a rebuttal.

    FWIW I don't think Google is correct in putting the full responsibility for WebView patches, no longer a part of Android anyway, on the OEM's. (Kudos at least for getting rid of non-Chromium Webview in Android) From what I've read Google doesn't believe issuing a patch which the OEM will then have to roll out to their devices is any better solution or more likely to happen than updating the Android OS itself. Of course updating to either KitKat or better yet Lollipop is the much better solution and covers a lot more improvements, but not taking the lead themselves on the old deprecated Webview is just poor PR on Google's part. It also unfairly puts some users in the middle of a tussle with OEM responsibilities.

    With that said continuing to patch an old an insecure open-source Webview that's been modified by some OEM's and couldn't be directly patched by Google anyway (looking at you Samsung) probably shouldn't go on indefinitely. It just creates continual problems and patches without an end in sight. FWIW it's not exactly easy to take advantage of the Webview exploits as it requires a whole lotta pieces to fall in place according to the researchers, but not impossible either, so IMHO Google should have continued to patch at least another few months.

    Also of note DED claimed Google will no longer support security updates for Jellybean and earlier. :???: No idea where he plucked that from as the only thing I've read is they won't supply old version Webview patches any longer, not patches in general. Perhaps he has some official statement he could point us to.

    But as for my opinion if it really matters I don't think Google is handling the Webview issue properly. I certainly couldn't defend it and don't intend to try.
    Yes. How many times has he stated that Google Play Services provides updates and security patches?
    From the Android 5.0 preview:
    Dynamic Security Provider — Offers an alternative to the platform's secure networking APIs that can be updated more frequently, for faster delivery of security patches.

    There's a more detailed explanation of the details in this article:
    http://developer.telerik.com/featured/android-5-0s-auto-updating-webview-means-mobile-apps/

    Also of note I'll assume DED hasn't used a device with Android 5.x and instead is relying on published complaints from a segment of old Nexus 4 and/or 5 owners in a Forbes article to claim it's almost unusable. Just as with those complaining of problems, ie WiFi, battery, Safari, with every iOS update it's difficult to know if it's a minor issue affecting some very small percentage of owners or a bonafide OS problem. I've been using Lollipop for over two months now on a Moto X and have no issues with it, nor even noted any bugs that should be squashed. I have no doubt that there are bugs there someplace, there always are. I just have not seen them for myself. Of course Motorola is one of the better OEM's anyway.

    IMO Google has the right idea in mind by decoupling core services to allow Google Play Services to supply security and feature updates. Probably the way it should have been handled all along. The OEM's as a whole just don't take it as seriously, tho some like Sony and Motorola are better than others when it comes to updates, particularly prompt OS version updates. Sammy would not be one of those timely responders which is unfortunate as they've used aping of Apple to become the largest of them. For that reason alone I don't hold high hopes for their Tizen OS and reliability.
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  • Reply 40 of 91

    DED needs to learn to write a title. These could be summaries, bullet points, even tweets, but are simply too contorted, contentious and convoluted to be headlines. You're making them work too hard, DED! Those headlines -- I can spot one of your articles simply by reading those click-bait, awkward hulks. (The follow-up op-eds are also reliably fan-boish but there's loads of good info buried in there for those willing to take the time to read it. Edit: loads of good info but, like in this article, it's often very selective and very partisan.)

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