Lower market Share = less interest from developers (macromedia, adobe et al are not rushing to make OS X specials of their software. You'd think with all the amazing capabilities that OS X is supposed to have according to apple, that these companies would want to introduce some new features to exploit it)
Lower market Share = less cash = less R&D
In the past apple has never really been in trouble. The world has moved on now and everyone and their grandma knows what a computer is.
This time they are in serious trouble - and this time they'll probably go under.
Without the G5 (at a pentium killing performance level) apple is just a funky company who sell expensive well designed computers with a nice name. They are no longer easier to use than Windows (ask anyone faced with OS X's Unix CLI). Hell you can't even get drivers for some of the most popular scanners in X yet.
At work I have 15 G4s and at home I have a 9500. I love em. When I bought them they represented some serious raw power.
Say what you want about high Mac costs but it does have one good benefit. You can own a G4 for 2 years and then still fetch a decent price for it....2 year old PC's are worth next to nothing. I'm astounded at how fast PC's lose value. Financing a PC for anything more than a year is crazy!
Ok, here it is, plain and simple. Apple provides a choice for those who do not want to run Windows and want to have a good computing experience.
People don't understand that with PC hardware costs going down, PC software costs are going up at a higher rate! Microsoft has a monopoly, and its obvious that the Bush White House isn't going to do anything about it. So they can use that monopoly to make people 'rent' the next version of Office. They can make people 'rent' the next version of Windows as well.
It's not a matter of IF you will pay a Microsoft Bill every month, it's a matter of WHEN.
When this happens, you're going to see people not only considering the Mac as their next computer purchase, but you'll see many converts, regardless of how many megahertz the computer runs at and most likely regardless of the price, as it will be less in the long run.
[quote]When this happens, you're going to see people not only considering the Mac as their next computer purchase, but you'll see many converts, regardless of how many megahertz the computer runs at and most likely regardless of the price, as it will be less in the long run.<hr></blockquote>
The traditional "Just wait until..." Mac fanatic motto... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
When this happens, you're going to see people not only considering the Mac as their next computer purchase, but you'll see many converts, regardless of how many megahertz the computer runs at and most likely regardless of the price, as it will be less in the long run. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Let's hope so but I wouldn't be so sure. There may well come some sort of 'anti-Microsoft' trend but people will nevertheless go for the best deal. Let's just face it, PC's are cheaper, they're faster, they're better web surfing tools. People won't ignore these facts.
As for the cost for companies to be lower in the long run with Macs because of less need for tech support. This was the case with Os 8-9 but I don't think this will apply with OsX where we already see people confused with privileges/authorization issues. Why can't an administrator open documents created by non-administrative user and so on. My son just downloaded the most recent version of ICQ and I had to go back to Os9, move into my directory from where I was able to install it! This makes no sense.
As discussed in various threads lots and lots of Web sites are not even tested on Macs and look horrible to say the least. Don't you think 'converts' will notice these things? It makes the whole computing experience less exciting.
To make the platform really attractive Apple needs more marked share and that won't happen in the current speed situation. First when Apple has something like 7 to 12% marked share web-designers and 'PC only' developers will start taking Macs into consideration
Apple isn't going under. Apple keeps making a profit. Apple is getting more new users than it loses. And radar still hasn't got his cheap PC running. Leonis' cheap PC is broken (again). And my 3 year old Mac has constantly worked since the day I pulled it out of the box.
Consumer don't just care about web surfing. Otherwise, who is buying all of these digital cameras, scanners and DV cams?
A very small percentage of people buy computers for games. Sure, they're a vocal minority, even a fanatical minority, but still a minority.
People who are educated in games don't even consider Macs. People who are educated in best, most efficient video editing don't even consider PCs.
Most of the posters in this thread have a very basic and myopic viewpoint of the 'computing industry' based on their own perspectives. Very few actually see the bigger picture.
A company doesn't have to have the most marketshare to succeed. Sure, it helps in a lot of ways, but it really isn't necessary.
[quote]A company doesn't have to have the most marketshare to succeed. Sure, it helps in a lot of ways, but it really isn't necessary.<hr></blockquote>
Good Point Seb.</strong><hr></blockquote> This analogy is plain stupid. First off, some of the cars you mention have huge marked share, especially in Europe. However, if those cars would need different types of roads to drive they probably wouldn't exist much longer. Lack of software IS a huge issue
And Seb, this isn't about looking at thing with 'your own perceptions'. It's about reading the warning signs. What customers are leaving and what new customers are coming to the platform? Apple is loosing uptill now loyal customers. If you think the 'geeks' will be just as loyal to the platform I think you should be prepered for disappointment. Geeks can change platform every year for that sake
For those of you who are handwringing and truly worried (Dawg and his disciples), what can't you do with your Mac?
I don't know, I'm genuinely asking.
What process or work are you prohibited from doing? Is it a software thing? Just hardware? Or is it that you can DO the work, just not as fast as a PC?
What? Maybe it'll help me if I know what all the worry and negativity is about.
I support a little over 600 Mac users where I work.
Every single week I have at least one person buying a Mac - PowerMac, PowerBook whatever.
Sometimes two or three people a week.
The company I work at offered free PCs to everyone in the entire company last year. No free Macs. Most of the people I talked to opted not to take the free PC and purchase a Mac instead. That says something.
Some of the designers even get a Dell or whatever, for home, to do testing of web pages for their freelance work. They always remark at how cheap feeling and flimsy-ish the things are and how the Macs will be their primary machines.
Quite a few people buy a Mac desktop, then a Mac laptop to go with it. A lot of these people didn't have a computer at all. These are their first home computers (Macs at that).
Granted, this is a smallish sample of the entire Mac using population. It's not a scientific cross section. It's not meant to be. But it's worth a hell of a lot more, IMO, than someone saying Apple is doomed because Intel announces/sells another chip that is incrementally faster than the one before it. The average consumer doesn't know the difference between cable modems and dialup. Or the difference between a DV cam and a Digital 8 camera.
When they find out how easy it is to do things on a Mac, that's what they care about. Even the people who did take the free PC, or bought one with their own money, come to me and ask me why their CD burner doesn't work, why they can't print, how do they get pictures into their PC. I always tell em, "I don't do windows" and leave it at that.
Anyways, I'm just tired of people talking out of their asses without having any kind of experience dealing with consumers. Even consumers who've been using computers for years. I've got Mac users who don't know what a chooser is. They don't care about mhz. Let alone FPS or DDR RAM. Really. They just don't. They want the big 22" Cinema Display and a fast Mac that works out of the box.
Or a Powerbook. Tons of people here buying Powerbooks.
Go ahead. If you're the type of person that wants a faster processor, knock yourself out. But don't think you're gonna kill Apple. You'll be replaced. Trust me.
<strong>For those of you who are handwringing and truly worried (Dawg and his disciples), what can't you do with your Mac?
I don't know, I'm genuinely asking.
What process or work are you prohibited from doing? Is it a software thing? Just hardware? Or is it that you can DO the work, just not as fast as a PC?
What? Maybe it'll help me if I know what all the worry and negativity is about.
Some real world examples/scenarios?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I can't run:
SoftImage, 3D Studio Max, (Wintel only) - don't even mention Virtual PC
If I render a Poser animation it takes much longer on my G4 than on my PIII
I can't buy high end cards like the Wildcat for my G4
After Effects always seems to take 10 - 15 mins longer on my G4 than my PIII
I can't select a wide range of monitors cos of ADC
There's a shed load of DV cards for Wintel that are not Mac compatible
My UMax Powerlook scanner keeps flaking out under OS X
There is no mac equivalent of WMODE for IE so flash animations not tested under Mac OS look sh*te.
Director 8.5 (not available for X) works closely with Max (not available at all for MacOS) for 3D objects.
Maya for X is behind the wintel version - or I'd switch
The macs sound system has no analogue audio inputs
[quote]Apple isn't going under. Apple keeps making a profit. Apple is getting more new users than it loses. And radar still hasn't got his cheap PC running. Leonis' cheap PC is broken (again). And my 3 year old Mac has constantly worked since the day I pulled it out of the box. <hr></blockquote>
Apple is making less and less of a profit each quarter, plus, they make either a very slim (or nonexistant) operating profit. Apple would make a good investment firm, though. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
I don't know why my PC isn't working...that's probably because I'm a first time system builder. On the other hand, I can give you a list of plenty of weird problems that occur with my G4...
Comments
<strong>Waaah. I'm just tired of all you screwheads coming here to do nothing but bitch and handwring.
Please, DO go buy a PC.
There's another original reply for you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What he said
Lower market Share = less interest from developers (macromedia, adobe et al are not rushing to make OS X specials of their software. You'd think with all the amazing capabilities that OS X is supposed to have according to apple, that these companies would want to introduce some new features to exploit it)
Lower market Share = less cash = less R&D
In the past apple has never really been in trouble. The world has moved on now and everyone and their grandma knows what a computer is.
This time they are in serious trouble - and this time they'll probably go under.
Without the G5 (at a pentium killing performance level) apple is just a funky company who sell expensive well designed computers with a nice name. They are no longer easier to use than Windows (ask anyone faced with OS X's Unix CLI). Hell you can't even get drivers for some of the most popular scanners in X yet.
At work I have 15 G4s and at home I have a 9500. I love em. When I bought them they represented some serious raw power.
How things change . . .
It's like dega vu all over again!
People don't understand that with PC hardware costs going down, PC software costs are going up at a higher rate! Microsoft has a monopoly, and its obvious that the Bush White House isn't going to do anything about it. So they can use that monopoly to make people 'rent' the next version of Office. They can make people 'rent' the next version of Windows as well.
It's not a matter of IF you will pay a Microsoft Bill every month, it's a matter of WHEN.
When this happens, you're going to see people not only considering the Mac as their next computer purchase, but you'll see many converts, regardless of how many megahertz the computer runs at and most likely regardless of the price, as it will be less in the long run.
The traditional "Just wait until..." Mac fanatic motto... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>
When this happens, you're going to see people not only considering the Mac as their next computer purchase, but you'll see many converts, regardless of how many megahertz the computer runs at and most likely regardless of the price, as it will be less in the long run. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Let's hope so but I wouldn't be so sure. There may well come some sort of 'anti-Microsoft' trend but people will nevertheless go for the best deal. Let's just face it, PC's are cheaper, they're faster, they're better web surfing tools. People won't ignore these facts.
As for the cost for companies to be lower in the long run with Macs because of less need for tech support. This was the case with Os 8-9 but I don't think this will apply with OsX where we already see people confused with privileges/authorization issues. Why can't an administrator open documents created by non-administrative user and so on. My son just downloaded the most recent version of ICQ and I had to go back to Os9, move into my directory from where I was able to install it! This makes no sense.
As discussed in various threads lots and lots of Web sites are not even tested on Macs and look horrible to say the least. Don't you think 'converts' will notice these things? It makes the whole computing experience less exciting.
To make the platform really attractive Apple needs more marked share and that won't happen in the current speed situation. First when Apple has something like 7 to 12% marked share web-designers and 'PC only' developers will start taking Macs into consideration
<strong>Apple will die. It may not be this year, or the year 2005 like I suggested, but like all things, they will die.</strong><hr></blockquote>
PowermacG4 is just upset that all of his "inside info from Mot" claims haven't come true! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Apple isn't going under. Apple keeps making a profit. Apple is getting more new users than it loses. And radar still hasn't got his cheap PC running. Leonis' cheap PC is broken (again). And my 3 year old Mac has constantly worked since the day I pulled it out of the box.
Consumer don't just care about web surfing. Otherwise, who is buying all of these digital cameras, scanners and DV cams?
A very small percentage of people buy computers for games. Sure, they're a vocal minority, even a fanatical minority, but still a minority.
People who are educated in games don't even consider Macs. People who are educated in best, most efficient video editing don't even consider PCs.
Most of the posters in this thread have a very basic and myopic viewpoint of the 'computing industry' based on their own perspectives. Very few actually see the bigger picture.
A company doesn't have to have the most marketshare to succeed. Sure, it helps in a lot of ways, but it really isn't necessary.
Mercedes
BMW
Land Rover
Porsche
Good Point Seb.
<strong>
Mercedes
BMW
Land Rover
Porsche
Good Point Seb.</strong><hr></blockquote> This analogy is plain stupid. First off, some of the cars you mention have huge marked share, especially in Europe. However, if those cars would need different types of roads to drive they probably wouldn't exist much longer. Lack of software IS a huge issue
And Seb, this isn't about looking at thing with 'your own perceptions'. It's about reading the warning signs. What customers are leaving and what new customers are coming to the platform? Apple is loosing uptill now loyal customers. If you think the 'geeks' will be just as loyal to the platform I think you should be prepered for disappointment. Geeks can change platform every year for that sake
[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: kelib ]</p>
I don't know, I'm genuinely asking.
What process or work are you prohibited from doing? Is it a software thing? Just hardware? Or is it that you can DO the work, just not as fast as a PC?
What? Maybe it'll help me if I know what all the worry and negativity is about.
Some real world examples/scenarios?
Every single week I have at least one person buying a Mac - PowerMac, PowerBook whatever.
Sometimes two or three people a week.
The company I work at offered free PCs to everyone in the entire company last year. No free Macs. Most of the people I talked to opted not to take the free PC and purchase a Mac instead. That says something.
Some of the designers even get a Dell or whatever, for home, to do testing of web pages for their freelance work. They always remark at how cheap feeling and flimsy-ish the things are and how the Macs will be their primary machines.
Quite a few people buy a Mac desktop, then a Mac laptop to go with it. A lot of these people didn't have a computer at all. These are their first home computers (Macs at that).
Granted, this is a smallish sample of the entire Mac using population. It's not a scientific cross section. It's not meant to be. But it's worth a hell of a lot more, IMO, than someone saying Apple is doomed because Intel announces/sells another chip that is incrementally faster than the one before it. The average consumer doesn't know the difference between cable modems and dialup. Or the difference between a DV cam and a Digital 8 camera.
When they find out how easy it is to do things on a Mac, that's what they care about. Even the people who did take the free PC, or bought one with their own money, come to me and ask me why their CD burner doesn't work, why they can't print, how do they get pictures into their PC. I always tell em, "I don't do windows" and leave it at that.
Anyways, I'm just tired of people talking out of their asses without having any kind of experience dealing with consumers. Even consumers who've been using computers for years. I've got Mac users who don't know what a chooser is. They don't care about mhz. Let alone FPS or DDR RAM. Really. They just don't. They want the big 22" Cinema Display and a fast Mac that works out of the box.
Or a Powerbook. Tons of people here buying Powerbooks.
Go ahead. If you're the type of person that wants a faster processor, knock yourself out. But don't think you're gonna kill Apple. You'll be replaced. Trust me.
[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: seb ]</p>
<strong>For those of you who are handwringing and truly worried (Dawg and his disciples), what can't you do with your Mac?
I don't know, I'm genuinely asking.
What process or work are you prohibited from doing? Is it a software thing? Just hardware? Or is it that you can DO the work, just not as fast as a PC?
What? Maybe it'll help me if I know what all the worry and negativity is about.
Some real world examples/scenarios?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I can't run:
SoftImage, 3D Studio Max, (Wintel only) - don't even mention Virtual PC
If I render a Poser animation it takes much longer on my G4 than on my PIII
I can't buy high end cards like the Wildcat for my G4
After Effects always seems to take 10 - 15 mins longer on my G4 than my PIII
I can't select a wide range of monitors cos of ADC
There's a shed load of DV cards for Wintel that are not Mac compatible
My UMax Powerlook scanner keeps flaking out under OS X
There is no mac equivalent of WMODE for IE so flash animations not tested under Mac OS look sh*te.
Director 8.5 (not available for X) works closely with Max (not available at all for MacOS) for 3D objects.
Maya for X is behind the wintel version - or I'd switch
The macs sound system has no analogue audio inputs
etc etc
Some people here though AREN'T doing that much cool stuff and just like to bitch and moan I think.
<strong>
I can't run:
SoftImage, 3D Studio Max, (Wintel only) - don't even mention Virtual PC
If I render a Poser animation it takes much longer on my G4 than on my PIII
I can't buy high end cards like the Wildcat for my G4
After Effects always seems to take 10 - 15 mins longer on my G4 than my PIII
I can't select a wide range of monitors cos of ADC
There's a shed load of DV cards for Wintel that are not Mac compatible
My UMax Powerlook scanner keeps flaking out under OS X
There is no mac equivalent of WMODE for IE so flash animations not tested under Mac OS look sh*te.
Director 8.5 (not available for X) works closely with Max (not available at all for MacOS) for 3D objects.
Maya for X is behind the wintel version - or I'd switch
The macs sound system has no analogue audio inputs
etc etc</strong><hr></blockquote>
Then use a PC. And why are you here anyway?
Actually, it isn't. Apple's worldwide marketshare has been consistently dropping for 2+ years and has been under 3% for over a year.
There are many, many old threads in Ars Technica's Battlefront showing this.
[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: TheAlmightyBabaramm ]</p>
Apple is making less and less of a profit each quarter, plus, they make either a very slim (or nonexistant) operating profit. Apple would make a good investment firm, though. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
I don't know why my PC isn't working...that's probably because I'm a first time system builder. On the other hand, I can give you a list of plenty of weird problems that occur with my G4...