Apple could face huge tax bill as Obama calls for new taxes on offshore profits in FY2016 budget

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  • Reply 121 of 203
    wizard69 wrote: »
    There is no doubt that the tax codes need work. However the rich are already paying significant amounts of tax to the point that it is unreasonable taxing. A flat tax system with no loop holes is needed, everybody including the poor pay the same rate. I never understood why the poor get off scot free in this country. If they don't have the money then they need to be compelled to work for it.
    Actually that is some of the best spend going when it comes to our tax dollars. Not so much because it keeps the war machine going but rather it keeps businesses alive in this country that wouldn't even exist by now. The electronics industry is a perfect example, so little non governmental electronics work is now done in the USA that you might as well call it a dead industry. Technologically we would be far worst off it it wasn't for government spend on the military. I'm not saying that is a good thing at all, it is just a reality of curent conditions in the country.

    Frankly our position in the world makes us a target from big and little alike. We have gotten soft in that respect and frankly I don't see the world changing for the better in that regard. So if anything rearmament is needed especially with respect to our nuclear forces. Consider current threats a doubling of the budget is sound planning.

    And what are your views on the decline and collapse of the Roman Empire? Almost there yet?
  • Reply 122 of 203
    wizard69 wrote: »
    If they don't have the money then they need to be compelled to work for it.

    1) You think people are poor because they are lazy? The hardest workers I've ever met are the poorest people I've ever come in contact with. This is true all over the world.

    2) What about those that can't work? Should be just euthanize all of them? They just leaching off your hard earned tax money, right?
  • Reply 123 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member

    Education time: http://usdebtclock.org/

    $921 billion on Medicare, $859 billion on Social Security, $310 billion on welfare, $249 billion on pensions.
    The list goes on. It is social spending that is killing both the U.S. and the EU, pretty pathetic too.
    None of those are enumerated in the Constitution. Defense is, and that's only $595 billion. Is there waste there? Certainly! But people seem to be sticking to this Bush-era concept about defense being the budget hog, and it's not even close anymore.

    That budget will need to roughly double also over the next few years. Military spending simply hasn't reflected what is happening in the world, we need to engage in more decisive battles with many of the failed states that exists. That means new technology and the implementation of a new nuclear arsenal to liguidate those backwater countries causing the earth so many problems. OBamas passive approach has worstened things to the point of sort of a critical mass. As such we will not be able to escape the reality that these countries must be dealt with in the most leather manner possible.

    Some people will turn yellow at the thought of that but I think hey will soon realize that appeasement got us no where.
  • Reply 124 of 203
    Quote:

    The U.S. shouldn't benefit on income earned overseas. That's just crazy proposing this. No other country on earth does this


    I agree with your sentiment, but that's not strictly true.

     

    In 2009 Australia changed it's Income Tax rules to include ALL personal income for Australian residents, whether it is derived inside Australia, or overseas.

     

    Prior to that, income that was earned overseas, and taxed at source, was deemed not to be taxable in Australia.

     

    Now, all income is taxable at the full Australian rate, and the foreign tax paid is considered as a credit against the higher rate payable in Australia.  ie, you have to pay the difference.

     

    I don't believe that this ruling applies to corporations, but it certainly does to those of us that live in Australia, but work overseas.

     

    ie. instead of paying just 10% local tax on the income I make working on a remote oil refinery in Central Asia, I have to pay the full 32% Australian Income Tax (plus 9% superannuation, plus 1.5% Medicare levy), less the 10% already paid locally.

  • Reply 125 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    tcasey wrote: »
    Agreed...and no corp sponsors..EVER.

    Which makes no sense at all! The average person has zero contact with government. A corporation can and often needs to be in constant contact with government. There simply isn't anyway around that reality, corporations can't function without government approval and the governemnt can't privide the right services without knowing the reality of the corporations needs.

    Corporate sponsors aren't the problem, the problem is elected officials forgetting who elected them ten minutes after the election.
  • Reply 126 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    morky wrote: »

    Debt as a % of GDP is what is important. How did we pay off WWII debts? We didn't. Our increase in GDP and inflation took care of it. Debt shot up in 2009 due to the need to spend to avert a new great depression. Have a look at Europe if you want to see what austerity does in a financial crisis. Debt as a % of GDP is expected to trend down over the next several years, but it's not a disaster. The sky is not falling. Our government is not broke. Apple should pay more of that largess in taxes to pay for some of the infrastructure required to make their business possible.

    Nobody is arguing that Apple shouldn't pay taxes, what we are arguing against is this appalling attempt at taxing income that has never been brought into the USA. Do you really think the EU will stand by and just watch this happen? Considering what is presented it is very much an attempt to tax European corporations, tax paying corporations under US law. It will not go over well at all after all the free trade agreements and the tariff regulations that have been introduced over the years to reduce trade barriers.
  • Reply 127 of 203
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frankie View Post

     



    Or companies and the super rich could pay the taxes they owe.

     

    And if you want to cut government lets start with insane amount we spend on the US military which doesn't even keep track of what it spends.




    The word "owe" is the operative term. If a company or individual is paying a penny less than what they "owe", they're breaking the law. For all the flak Apple has gotten for its tax practices, no government at any level in the world has been able to prove that Apple broke the law. 

     

    It is likely true that the government is bringing in insufficient revenue. But it is also true that fiscal discipline is a problem. To use your example, if the US military doesn't keep track of what it spends, that's a clear indication of a major lack of fiscal discipline. Why should more money be given to an organization that can't properly manage what it already has? People ask the same question of the US federal government as a whole. If the US federal government cannot responsible manage the money it already has, why are higher taxes the answer to the problem of deficits?

  • Reply 128 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member

    You may need to install plug-ins called Disconnect and Ghostery. Google 'em (or DuckDuckGo 'em).

    Hard to do on an iPad. Which reminds me I wish Applewould hurry up with the Broadwell based machines, my Mac is broke down and I'm having a hard time convincing myself to get it fixed (old).
  • Reply 129 of 203
    wizard69 wrote: »
    Hard to do on an iPad. Which reminds me I wish Applewould hurry up with the Broadwell based machines, my Mac is broke down and I'm having a hard time convincing myself to get it fixed (old).

    I see. You neglected to mention that important detail.
  • Reply 130 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member

    As far as the government is concerned, they already tax estates, despite the fact that money was taxed in the first place. Why not double tax everyone else?

    Further evidence of a need to overhaul our tax system. I never understood why the paltry little bit of a federal tax return that I get is seen as taxable income. I earned it last year and the government certainly didn't Oay me any interest on it. There is much about our tax system that just doesn't make sense, much of the system simply needs to be trashed so that some equity can be found.
  • Reply 131 of 203
    wizard69 wrote: »
    The list goes on. It is social spending that is killing both the U.S. and the EU, pretty pathetic too.

    Right?! We need that money to put into the military to help protect the citizens¡
  • Reply 132 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    freediverx wrote: »
    Because corporations are being offered ridiculously low tax rates in order to lure them to countries that want their business.
    Not in all countries. However Ireland has been very successful in transforming itself from a relatively poor country into one with a vibrant economy by offering reasonable taxes. Tough luck to the countries that have tax systems that grossly attack productive companies.
    There's no reason a multi-billion dollar company should be paying a lower tax rate than citizens who are struggling just to get by.
    More baloney. Most companies pay far more tax than you might imagine. Further those that get by with minimal taxes do so because of loop holes or deals that increase production in the USA. The fact is a lot of corporate tax goes to individuals that are too lazy to work which is pathetic in and of itself.
    There needs to be an international reversal of this calamitous trend to bring sanity back to corporate tax collection.
    Well if this proposal goes through there certainly will be something happening internationally. The EU could certainly tell the U.S. to go to hell.
    Corporate tax shelters are a key reason behind US and global wealth redistribution to the top 1%.

    Again this is nonsense. The reason the redistribution happens is because people are stupid. The by from mega corporations instead of local small businesses. Those corporations simply don't need the profit per piece to make big bucks as they have billions of people to sell to. Sell one billion items and make a buck a piece and you have a billion dollars. It has nothing to do with corporations being evil, many are of course as they are run by people which we all know have various ethical guidance. It is simply a numbers game, offer a successful product and people will flock to it. The problem isn't the corporations, the problem lies with consumers and their reluctance to get of the low cost product gravy train.

    For example go into any sporting goods store and start looking at pocket knives. Many to choose from including many old American names. Many of these are now knives made in China with a few still made in America. Ask the clerks in any store what the hot sellers are and you are likely to hear about a knife made in China often for a large corporation. America thus looses out in many ways all due to consumers going cheap, often a few dollars. We loose not just with the taxes on that one product but all the economic effort from allied industries. The reality is the supposed loss taxes due to these off shore companies are insignificant compared to what happens to whole industries when people shift buying habits and ignore the country of origin. In this case the loss of knife production impacts workers and companies in this country making knives but it doesn't stop there as all allied industries take a hit.

    In any event it gets even worst as now there are many powerful Chinese companies in a position to setup operations in the USA to import stuff. Now the USA is really screwed because they have now an unfair tax system because they will never be able to get that Chinese company to pay taxes on earnings outside the USA. This will weaken US based companies even more on the world markets as they end up being the only companies in the world paying outrageously high corporate taxes often 3 times as much as average. Hell it doesn't even have to be an up and coming Chinese corporation, how far would the U.S. get trying to tax Samsung's world wide profits? After all Samsung has several businesses set up in the US so using the illogic behind this proposal the parent companies should be liable for US taxes also. If they aren't how would that be fair to American companies?

    The whole proposal is just plain ugly and amounts to over reach by the USA.
  • Reply 133 of 203
    kpomkpom Posts: 617member
    DOA. Obama's tax plan is a progressive fantasy that fortunately has no chance of passing. It would just incentivize every US multinational to sell to a foreign company.
  • Reply 134 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    Having spent sometime in Ireland, you need to understand that Ireland's policies have been extremely successful in turning a poor country into a success story. In general I got the feeling that the people in Ireland have been very happy with the economic growth that has happened that has squashed unemployment and lifted literally millions out of poverty. This due to the company being successful offering a competitive place for business to locate.
    freediverx wrote: »
    They are paying ridiculously low tax rates in countries that they would otherwise have little or no presence in, like Ireland.
    Yep and overall it has had a very positive impact on Ireland.
    If the laws were changed so they had to pay US taxes, then they would move their fake operations out of countries like Ireland and back into the US to avoid the pointless double taxation you refer to.
    See your problem is that you believe the liberal spin on things, these Irish ventures are far from fake operations. These corporations have had a massive impact on what was once a very dismal economy.
    It's ludicrous to suggest Apple would instead merely move entirely out of the US. Lotsa luck finding the same caliber of talent willing to live elsewhere.

    Actually some people are already moving to China, even Korea. Going back to Ireland wouldn't be impossible either as they have massively improved infrastructure and the place is actually very livable. Further all of those corporations in Ireland have created a massive talent pool.

    It is a fundamental mistake to beleive that Califronia has all the qualities that make an operation like Apples successful. They could leave the state and country next year and be as well off. They could sell the big building to the military and they could call it the "Pentagon" west. In any event people believing that Apple could only flourish in California are just kidding themselves. That doesn't man I think they will move, just that there are plenty of place in the world with more reasonable tax systems and the resources to run Apple.
  • Reply 135 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    frankie wrote: »

    Did we not just pass a budget with defense almost 1 trillion? Thinking so.

    We are trillions in debt from useless wars and tax cuts for the super rich.  Time to pay up like the rest of us.

    Wars are only useful if you forget one important fact: wars are one by the slaughter of the enemy. In this regard we have engaged in useless wars. However the world is reshaping itself in a way that we will have to learn that lesson all over agian. It is time that the American people demand that the government slaughter the enemy instead of this senseless pin pricking which only makes things worst.
  • Reply 136 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    If only there was some truth in this. The fact is FDR had nothing to do with the success of the U.S. economy after WW2. The fact is the US was about the only industrialized country that didn't have massive rebuilding efforts underway, rebuilding efforts that often needed US made materials and assistance. A lot of money flowed into the US due to exports directly after WW2. Oh and by the way WW2 nearly did bankrupt the country.

    freediverx wrote: »

    I accidentally "liked" this post, and since it's not possible to revoke my "like" I felt the obligation to respond to it.
    I don't think it was an accident at all.
    While there are plenty of examples of government inefficiencies, the solution is not to defund and kill government but to work to improve it. FDR's New Deal saved the US from the Great Depression. What followed were the most prosperous decades in the country's history and the explosion of a prosperous middle class that not only elevated the living standards of millions, but also buoyed the economy and benefitted business enormously.
    The U.S. was saved from the Great Depression by WW2 this is a well established fact. It is also a fact that the USA ran up a massive deficit as a result of WW2.

    The reversal or these policies and the relentless drive towards regressive tax laws since the Reagan administration have hurt the economy as a whole and devastated the middle class.
    Regains tax policies have never been shown to be regressive. Most of the borrowing at that time was to place us in a position to break up the Soviet Union. By that measure Reagan was very successful. Oh and by the way I was and still are part of the middle class and by far things where much much better under Reagan than they have been under Obama or even the last Bush.
    All your pretty graphs do is prove how stupid OBamas policies have been. Nothing has been done to curb none productive government spending. The problem is pretty simple too much government cash simply ends up producing no positive impact on the economy. Much of that is directly due to the portion of the budget called social.
  • Reply 137 of 203

    With all this back and forth...the end game is....

     

    Obama knows this will never pass!   He doesn't care if it passes!

    It's all about Media Headlines and Social Media hits...

     

    He will go down in history fighting for the middle-income family (even while destroying it)

     

    and if all goes as planned, this will fuel the democratic base to vote in 2016 because most don't understand the world financial markets and people will vote to take the evil corporations money, that they owe, to those that take!

     

    but sadly most voters also won't understand its a one time deal..because most multinationals will flee the US and in a few years the tax base and employment will plummet!  but...and a senator whose time is up will be, "I have a consulting gig, and really the fall-out won't be my issue"!  so sure, go ahead, vote away all US Business... and in 10, 15 or 20 years, ask where all the jobs went...cause if US is bad for corporations, its bad for citizens!  

  • Reply 138 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    freediverx wrote: »
    And you sound like a typical anti-immigrant racist.
    Being anti illegal immigration is not racists, but rather rational behavior. If this problem is not addressed it will lead to massive population growth that can not be handled.

    Beyond that one of the biggest problems with illegal immigrants is their unwillingness to give up the "old ways" of the places they come from. At work we have a large number of legal immigrants that have all tried to adapt at least a little to the culture and language of the country. Great people really. Illegals seldom do this and are in fact mostly criminal setting up criminal enterprises in is country.

    In effect your desire to support illegal immigration is about as smart as supporting the mafia as an idealized way to live.
  • Reply 139 of 203
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,831member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    You can't draw that conclusion from your anecdotal observation of "any city you visit in America."
    Sure I can because any city in America has its own cesspool of welfare users. You can't deny this.
    You have no idea what the welfare of the people would be without that assistance, or the affects it would have on society as a whole without being in place.
    You do realize there was a time in this country when the welfare state didn't exist? Sure it was bad for a few individuals but it certianly did encourage far more to get off their dead asses and find some work.
    You hypothesis and create an argument as to why you believe it needs to be change. If you're successful, perhaps it will be changed and then decades later you may be able to look back to see if your plan was successful for the greater good of society, but you can't simply look at "any city you visit in America" to make such a determine of how these people's live would be without the assistance.

    Obviously you missed out on something in high school called history.

    The fundamental problems with the welfare system as it now stands are the handing out of money with zero attachments or expectations leveled at the takers. The second problem is the sad reality that far to much welfare money gets funneled to the wealth in the guise of helping the poor.

    Locally this second problem is so bad it has become a joke. We actually have welfare payments being made to landlords renting houses to welfare cheats that won't go for more than $5000 on the open market. Nice business, charge the country $650 a month for rent on a house that the country could buy for less than a years welfare payments. Oh by the way the "renter" never even sees that money.

    Don't get me wrong, I do understand that there is need, but there is also lazy. There are also highly questionable practices that lead to a lot of bleed off from the money that is supposedly helping these individuals. So again any city can offer a lesson in what not to do.
  • Reply 140 of 203
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    Sure I can because any city in America has its own cesspool of welfare users. You can't deny this.
    You do realize there was a time in this country when the welfare state didn't exist? Sure it was bad for a few individuals but it certianly did encourage far more to get off their dead asses and find some work.
    Obviously you missed out on something in high school called history.

    The fundamental problems with the welfare system as it now stands are the handing out of money with zero attachments or expectations leveled at the takers. The second problem is the sad reality that far to much welfare money gets funneled to the wealth in the guise of helping the poor.

    Locally this second problem is so bad it has become a joke. We actually have welfare payments being made to landlords renting houses to welfare cheats that won't go for more than $5000 on the open market. Nice business, charge the country $650 a month for rent on a house that the country could buy for less than a years welfare payments. Oh by the way the "renter" never even sees that money.

    Don't get me wrong, I do understand that there is need, but there is also lazy. There are also highly questionable practices that lead to a lot of bleed off from the money that is supposedly helping these individuals. So again any city can offer a lesson in what not to do.

    :no: Very sad.
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