Retired GM chief Dan Akerson likens rumored Apple car program to 'trying to cough up a hairball'

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  • Reply 121 of 143
    How do you make it high margin? Sell direct like they do everything else. Why would a self driving Apple Car need a dealer, it could drive to you for a test "drive." Plus, no residual labor deals that crush margins, everything is a fresh contract based on profitability, probably in a right to work state. Cheap components made in Asia, assembled in America. There is plenty of money to be made here for Apple.
  • Reply 122 of 143
    Rememebr how Apple got into the phone business? Remember Motorola, and where they are today?
  • Reply 123 of 143
    dannybrook wrote: »
    Rememebr how Apple got into the phone business? Remember Motorola, and where they are today?

    Washing off the saliva, having been spat out by Google.
  • Reply 124 of 143
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    9to5Mac just put up a story on the employees they're aware of that are working on this car project. Based on the profiles it appears that this goes well beyond CarPlay. Unless Apple is just designing a prototype car to show off some infotainment system hoping to sell to auto manufacturers. Everyone on this list is/was involved with hardware or battery tech.

    http://tinyurl.com/p9hbf9w
  • Reply 125 of 143
    rogifan wrote: »
    9to5Mac just put up a story on the employees they're aware of that are working on this car project. Based on the profiles it appears that this goes well beyond CarPlay. Unless Apple is just designing a prototype car to show off some infotainment system hoping to sell to auto manufacturers. Everyone on this list is/was involved with hardware or battery tech.

    http://tinyurl.com/p9hbf9w

    Gotta love that site. Fantastic articles, and in before most other blogs as well.
  • Reply 126 of 143
    desuserign wrote: »

    Of which "business perspective" do you speak? I'm sure it would be interesting to hear you elaborate on this.
    Do you think the automotive industry isn't subject to disruption?
    Did a "business perspective" indicate Apple's entry into the "phone manufacturing" business was sensible in 2007?
    Like any other perspective, a business perspective depends on where one chooses to look from. 

    It's not a industry in which innovation is stagnant. Many innovations come from the racing scene, and those guys are constantly pushing the envelope. There are electric Formula One cars now, and those teams are probably funding battery tech so their cars go just a little faster, or last a little longer.

    The Japanese have disrupted the market several times, once with gasoline economical cars, then with affordable luxury cars, and also with hybrid vehicles. It's not a under served market not you can suddenly create for the masses like the smartphone, or the tablet.
  • Reply 127 of 143
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    philboogie wrote: »
    Gotta love that site. Fantastic articles, and in before most other blogs as well.

    Yep. I thought it was interesting too listening to Jim Dalrymple's podcast last night that he was not dismissive of the car rumors. He didn't sound like he had any inside information he was holding back but also didn't seem surprised that Apple would be looking into this. His argument was what comes after iPhone and what other meaningful industries could Apple get into. We've seen patents for VR goggles but I don't see VR being a huge money driver for Apple. We know ?Pay is in its infancy but that doesn't appear to be something Apple is trying to heavily monetize. Thinking long term, what will be the revenue driver that replaces iPhone?
  • Reply 128 of 143
    rogifan wrote: »
    Yep. I thought it was interesting too listening to Jim Dalrymple's podcast last night that he was not dismissive of the car rumors. He didn't sound like he had any inside information he was holding back but also didn't seem surprised that Apple would be looking into this. His argument was what comes after iPhone and what other meaningful industries could Apple get into. We've seen patents for VR goggles but I don't see VR being a huge money driver for Apple. We know ?Pay is in its infancy but that doesn't appear to be something Apple is trying to heavily monetize. Thinking long term, what will be the revenue driver that replaces iPhone?

    Excellent question. No idea. Could it be Apple Pay after all? It's assumed they take 0.20% from every transaction. It's a $4T business in the US alone IIRC, which would amount to $8B, if Apple was to get 100% of that market, which it obviously isn't. But what happens when this gets viral, global? What is the yearly amount of CC purchases?
  • Reply 129 of 143
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,472moderator
    desuserign wrote: »
    Actually, that's one reason I can see that companies like Tesla, and potentially Apple, can go into cars. Electric cars are many times more "solid state" than traditional cars. Transportation is an industry begging to be disrupted by solid state experts like Tesla and (even more so) Apple.

    Companies that are used to combustion engines will have to engineer things an entirely different way so the people involved will be thinking of completely different engineering problems. Electric cars don't need to hold flammable liquid, they don't need to aspirate the engine or cool a combustion reaction, the engine is much lighter and the weight is in the battery rather than the motor. A combustion car engine is ~200kg vs 30kg electric. An EV battery is about 500kg but the weight can be distributed across the car not isolated in one area and a fuel tank varies in weight unlike a battery.

    The torque is much higher in the electric cars too. The Tesla has 687 lb. ft of torque at 0rpm. A Ford Mustang has 280 lb. ft at 4000 rpm. Some of the most powerful combustion cars are listed here:

    http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/1305_top_10_largest_engines_in_u_s_market_cars/

    The SRT Viper has 600 lb. ft.


    [VIDEO]


    There's an insane mode in the Tesla:


    [VIDEO]


    The woman at 1:05 sounds like Mrs Potato Head. 0-60mph in 3.2 seconds. The Bugatti Veyron can do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds and that's the fastest in a production car.

    I think for the engineers working at Apple, it would be a cool project to work on. They can drive their own cars to work every day. The project has everything - it's a growth industry, they don't have to ship a massive volume of units, they can add value, they would create lots of jobs, the engineers would love it, it involves software and hardware, it helps the environment by taking away emissions and can take away reliance on fossil fuels.

    There's too many rumors: their mergers and acquisitions spoke with Elon Musk, there's the cross-hiring of engineers between them and Tesla, they've been rumored to be talking to outsourced vehicle manufacturers and hiring thousands of staff, Jony Ive likes cars, Steve Jobs wanted to build a car. Wishful thinking maybe but how cool would it be if they rolled something out like the Fisker Karma at one of their events:

    1000

    Just spinning on a turntable while the flashes go off.
  • Reply 130 of 143
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    philboogie wrote: »
    Excellent question. No idea. Could it be Apple Pay after all? It's assumed they take 0.20% from every transaction. It's a $4T business in the US alone IIRC, which would amount to $8B, if Apple was to get 100% of that market, which it obviously isn't. But what happens when this gets viral, global? What is the yearly amount of CC purchases?

    Still ?Pay is dependent on iPhone (and ?Watch). Unless Apple moves ?Pay beyond the phone in some way? I also forgot to mention streaming music but that's also tied to iPhone unless Apple decides to make a web version.

    Last year at the WJSD conference Tim Cook said iPhone would be Apple's main revenue driver for the next 5 years. Hmm...where will cars be in the next 5 years? What if Apple is working on EVs that would shuttle employees from SF to the new campus?
  • Reply 131 of 143
    Marvin wrote: »
    The woman at 1:05 sounds like Mrs Potato Head. 0-60mph in 3.2 seconds.


    Somehow this came (pun intended) to mind. :lol:

  • Reply 132 of 143
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,472moderator
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Marvin wrote: »
    The woman at 1:05 sounds like Mrs Potato Head. 0-60mph in 3.2 seconds.

    Somehow this came (pun intended) to mind. :lol:


    Wait until they turn round a corner (NSFW):

  • Reply 133 of 143
    Marvin wrote: »
    Wait until they turn round a corner (NSFW):


    The driver missed the perfect opportunity for this move.

  • Reply 134 of 143
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,629member
    dasanman69 wrote: »

    You're confusing phone manufacturers for telecoms, which provide service to whomever makes a phone.

    Ah. You're confusing Telecom carriers/operators for the companies generally in the telco business being referred to here. Though I'm pretty sure they baulked at Apple's entry into the handset business, especially when they tried to take more control of the service/UX.
  • Reply 135 of 143
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,534member
    There is no way Apple is going to actually build a car. Why would they? They will probably develop a system to be USED in cars. No reason to make anything when there are dozens of companies with a hundred years experience making cars. Just make the electronic guts.
  • Reply 136 of 143
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    Yep. I thought it was interesting too listening to Jim Dalrymple's podcast last night that he was not dismissive of the car rumors. He didn't sound like he had any inside information he was holding back but also didn't seem surprised that Apple would be looking into this. His argument was what comes after iPhone and what other meaningful industries could Apple get into. We've seen patents for VR goggles but I don't see VR being a huge money driver for Apple. We know ?Pay is in its infancy but that doesn't appear to be something Apple is trying to heavily monetize. Thinking long term, what will be the revenue driver that replaces iPhone?

    Also, listening to the latest episode of Macbreak Weekly, Andy Inhatko (who also has excellent connections within Apple & the tech industry in general) chose to abstain from talking about Apple's rumored car project. That's very unlike him, at least from all the episodes I've seen.

  • Reply 137 of 143
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    It's not a industry in which innovation is stagnant. Many innovations come from the racing scene, and those guys are constantly pushing the envelope. There are electric Formula One cars now, and those teams are probably funding battery tech so their cars go just a little faster, or last a little longer.

    I'm sorry, but if you really think the automotive industry is chock full of innovation, I'd have to say that you don't know what innovation really is.
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    The Japanese have disrupted the market several times, once with gasoline economical cars, then with affordable luxury cars, and also with hybrid vehicles. It's not a under served market not you can suddenly create for the masses like the smartphone, or the tablet.

    While it's true the Japanese have had a disruptive effect, it's very much worth remember that it was mostly done by using a "rapid inch up" strategy, which is only looks innovative when compared to the rest of the automotive industry at the time.
    What we are about to witness (from someone, if not Apple) will be nothing less than a wholesale re-imagination of personal transportation (and no, we're talking cars and car-like things here, not Segways!) Tesla is leading the way. Maybe Apple will jump in too. Whatever happens, the traditional car (and car companies) are both in for a very wild and truely disruptive ride over the next decade. It'll make the last century look like simple model year update.
  • Reply 138 of 143
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    desuserign wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but if you really think the automotive industry is chock full of innovation, I'd have to say that you don't know what innovation really is.
    While it's true the Japanese have had a disruptive effect, it's very much worth remember that it was mostly done by using a "rapid inch up" strategy, which is only looks innovative when compared to the rest of the automotive industry at the time.
    What we are about to witness (from someone, if not Apple) will be nothing less than a wholesale re-imagination of personal transportation (and no, we're talking cars and car-like things here, not Segways!) Tesla is leading the way. Maybe Apple will jump in too. Whatever happens, the traditional car (and car companies) are both in for a very wild and truely disruptive ride over the next decade. It'll make the last century look like simple model year update.

    Anything 'car like' is not going to be a "wholesale re-imagination of personal transportation".

    If you don't think Automatic Accident Avoidance is an innovation then it's you don't know what innovation is.
  • Reply 139 of 143
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

    Anything 'car like' is not going to be a "wholesale re-imagination of personal transportation".

    My point was that the last self proclaimed disruption of personal transportation (the Segway) disappointed since it really didn't effect anyone.

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

    If you don't think Automatic Accident Avoidance is an innovation then it's you don't know what innovation is.

    So I guess you agree with me that the Japanese disruptions were not really all the innovative then.

     

    Accident Avoidance is one of the few fairly good innovations in the automotive space in the last 40 years. But you will notice that it hasn't really been at all disruptive. It's simply new technology bolted on to the existing problem prone platform. You could as easily call seat belts or airbags automotive innovations. Have any of these innovations changed cars and driving in any structural or financial way? Not really.

    You've yet to see a significant structural disruption the automotive space, but I'm sure you will soon. Tesla's efforts are the closest thing so far.

  • Reply 140 of 143
    Apple is cursed for having the disruptive business model. They are expected to be disruptive. What will they do after the watch? Maybe the are forced to do a car.
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