<strong>I don't need Mhz, I just want decent performance. OS X on a PoweBook is SLOW. That Alienware laptop offers LOTS more for the money than a PowerBook G4. For some people, weight is an issue but I never found carrying a Wallstreet uncomfortable. And yes, if I had the money to buy a high end laptop right now, a Mac would not even be considered. 667mhz and a (now) old GPU is not worth spending $3000 on. You people should be concerned about Wintel laptops for 2 reasons: 1) because there are people out there that aren't so obsessed with a company that they will buy their hardware just because it's made by apple. 2) Apple's laptops historically have had better performance than Wintels, no more. By the way, I stick with the mac cause I like the OS (9.x) better but the other side is more tempting all the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with you on many things but I feel you are missing many things as well
1.) OS X on a Powerbook is certainly not slow. OS X is actually great on mine. Very responsive for an OS X machine, and very rarely do I have any OS X related performance problems on it. If anything OS X runs better on it than OS 9.2.2
2.) You are comparing the Powerbook to a product it is not even attempting to compete with. Mobility is a key selling point for the Powerbook. For those alienware notebooks it most certainly is not. Apple keeps the powerbook to a one inch 5.4 lb restriction. the notebooks you are comparing it to are literally twice the size and weight. It's a big difference. if Apple wanted to make a huge 2 inch or greater notebook that was a huge heavy block but was able to use desktop components to gain performance I'm sure they would. But apparantly they just don't see a need considering that the sacrifices the current Powerbook has to make aren't too severe.
3.) The Powerbook g4 in its current state is nearly dead. You know it. An update is right around the corner. I don't think its too fair to compare a model that really hasn't seen a change other than optical drive since October to a brand new jus beginning to ship product.
I fully believe that with the next rev Apple is going to address the major complaints
1.) Clockspeed. Likely 800Mhz G4 which will be a very good improvement on the 667. Hopefully they may be able to push that to 867 or 933 but 800 is most likely.
2.) Resolution. People have been demanding higher resolution since January 2001. I think we'll finally see an increase for those people or at the very least a BTO option
3.) GPU. Radeon mobility 7500 is pin compatible with the radeon mobility in there currently. they do the swap and they once again have a competitive GPU. I hope they go with the 64MB version though
4.) 133 Mhz bus standard and more HD options (60GB most notably).
All those thing are very possible and reasonable for the next powerbook update which IMO will be next month. With those additions I think the Powerbook G4 would be a very good mobile publishing workstation. And one that actually gets decent battery life and doesn't break your back to bring around with you.
Applenut, those specs certainly sound reasonable and would vastly improve the PowerBook. I still would love to see DDR RAM but that will come in the PowerMacs first. I really hope they find a way to get a 1ghz+ chip in there before the end of the year. Apple should (in my opinion) still make a Pismo-like PowerBook. The two expansion bays and a thicker, better cooled case could take more powerful CPUs. AND, it would still be light enough for regular use. Let me refine this idea. Apple should offer 2 laptops at about the same price. 1) PowerBook G4 similar to what we have now. Light, widescreen, etc. 2) Pismo-ish PowerBook w/ faster CPU/GPU, expansion bays, more weight, and a 15" LCD. That would be my ideal PowerBook lineup right there.
One of Apple's problems is that they define their market too narrowly. Either you are a consumer or a professional, and other such distinctions. You must fit into the specific little box that they define or you're out of luck.
I think there is plenty of room for a notebook that is NOT as ultraportable. In the PC market, There seem to be more desktop replacements than ultraportables. Clearly, there is a healthy market for both. Apple does not begin to touch the entire spectrum of notebook buyers with the iBook and the TiBook lines. I suppose there really is no need of continuing to knock at the door if they don't want us at the party. For those of you who are tired of seeing posts that highlight great PCs, just think of us as yet another segment of the market just begging Apple to earn our business. There are many other markets that Apple seems to be ignoring as well.
I'm sure their product lines are just fine for their intended markets. I just wish they would expand their intended market to include me. When they do, I'll be ready.
<strong>Ah, yet again when someone brings up the subject of fast PC's, they get the "Well then go by a PC you ****er!" So typical, it really gets annoying. You're so in love with this company (Apple) that you can't even see that this is significant and it is a real problem for Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uh, no, I like my Mac so much that I don't bother myself with MHz and how much crap a hardware company can cram into a shitty bulky enlosure, load Windows on it, and toss it out the door. Much more to using a computer than the damn processor speed, pal.
I'm not saying Apple's hardware is where it should be. Obviously there's room for improvement. What ammoying to ME is every time a company puts out some new hardware config, all these supposed "Mac people" start bitching and moaning about the state of Apple. Eugene is right - if it's so terrible, please do buy a PC. Seriously. If your happiness revolves around the clock speed of your processor, I'm surprised you own a Mac to begin with.
Once again, it's not about clock speed but when I can get a vastly superior (hardware spec wise) laptop for the same price, I'll go with the laptop with the better performance. Apple has access to G4s that are at least 800mhz that can go in PowerBooks but they refuse to put them in. I think my problem with Apple is they don't introduce new hardware when they can, they have to wait till a show. I think that's a mistake. If they came out with a Pismo 2, I'd shut up. And once again, if I had the money for a high end laptop, I'd get a PC. They offer more for the money right now.
[quote]I don't need Mhz, I just want decent performance.<hr></blockquote>
BING BING BING!
It's not about googlehurtz of powar or jigglebytes of RAM, it's about how the thing responds when you are using it and pricey new Macs are sluggish considering the king's ransom you pay.
PCs are fast and friendly and cheap. Buy a PC and keep your mind open.
Or keep hanging on to the silly hope that Macs will suddenly fulfill what you want.
Some people are happy with the way Macs are. Fantastic.
Some are not, fantastic, don't tie yourself to any platform out of loyalty. Keep an open mind and you'll have more fun.
apparently there are enough people to buy these machines to keep apple in business....why change??
i'm sure they'd love to have a 1.4 ghz g4, but they aren't available (as of now)....you think apple would purposely put a 667 in a powerbook when it could put in a 1 ghz???
those parts aren't available to them!!!!! try to keep that in mind when you bash them!!!
DDR is another issue; should be used now, but i guess they're still trying to fix the bugs in them....
"When will Apple realize that it's the 21st century?"
they know what century it is people!!!! this is the best they can offer so deal with it!!!!! if you don't like it, then buy something else!
Actually apple has access to AT LEAST 800mhz mobile G4 chips (7445?) and the Mobile Radeon 7500 is available so Apple CAN update their PowerBooks whenever they want to. They choose instead to wait until the last possible moment. 6 months+ is way too long to wait for a hardware update.
I suppose the end of my argument is that I wouldn't be willing to pay much for a machine that could run only windows. There is Linux, but OS X beats the crap out of it, if you ask me.
Windows is just such a toy. That's what the problem is for me. (Hard to believe that little switch). I also value the fact that Apple's portables look so damn cool.
The PowerBook is due for an update. You can't compare it to a machine that has just begun shipping. I think this will be a large update:
800 to 1GHZ
Better resolution
casing improvements
32MB or 64 MB BTO graphics
Bigger drives, etc.....
I looked at the alienware machine. A 4200rpm travelstar? OK. Not me, thanks. It also looks freaking huge.
As far as OSX goes: Yup, its slower. But I think it is that way on purpose to make people upgrade their machines. It is pretty quick on a top of the line system. 10.2 will improve no doubt. If you have used XP, you will see that that finder functions aren't much slower if at all.
I like X anyway, and it runs pretty well on my Pismo 500/384MB, and my wife's ibook 600/256MB. And I think it wiill still vastly improve.
As far as OSX goes: Yup, its slower. But I think it is that way on purpose to make people upgrade their machines.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please, please, please tell me that you were drunk at the time you wrote that but have now sobered up.
If MS were caught purposely crippling their OS to help out their friends at Intel and AMD, Dell and Gateway, then there would be another class action lawsuite.
If you are correct, then Apple is intentionally shafting the faithful and the faithful seem to be happy to take it. That's just not right.
Perhaps making the hardware and the software is not such a good thing after all.
Comments
<strong>I don't need Mhz, I just want decent performance. OS X on a PoweBook is SLOW. That Alienware laptop offers LOTS more for the money than a PowerBook G4. For some people, weight is an issue but I never found carrying a Wallstreet uncomfortable. And yes, if I had the money to buy a high end laptop right now, a Mac would not even be considered. 667mhz and a (now) old GPU is not worth spending $3000 on. You people should be concerned about Wintel laptops for 2 reasons: 1) because there are people out there that aren't so obsessed with a company that they will buy their hardware just because it's made by apple. 2) Apple's laptops historically have had better performance than Wintels, no more. By the way, I stick with the mac cause I like the OS (9.x) better but the other side is more tempting all the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with you on many things but I feel you are missing many things as well
1.) OS X on a Powerbook is certainly not slow. OS X is actually great on mine. Very responsive for an OS X machine, and very rarely do I have any OS X related performance problems on it. If anything OS X runs better on it than OS 9.2.2
2.) You are comparing the Powerbook to a product it is not even attempting to compete with. Mobility is a key selling point for the Powerbook. For those alienware notebooks it most certainly is not. Apple keeps the powerbook to a one inch 5.4 lb restriction. the notebooks you are comparing it to are literally twice the size and weight. It's a big difference. if Apple wanted to make a huge 2 inch or greater notebook that was a huge heavy block but was able to use desktop components to gain performance I'm sure they would. But apparantly they just don't see a need considering that the sacrifices the current Powerbook has to make aren't too severe.
3.) The Powerbook g4 in its current state is nearly dead. You know it. An update is right around the corner. I don't think its too fair to compare a model that really hasn't seen a change other than optical drive since October to a brand new jus beginning to ship product.
I fully believe that with the next rev Apple is going to address the major complaints
1.) Clockspeed. Likely 800Mhz G4 which will be a very good improvement on the 667. Hopefully they may be able to push that to 867 or 933 but 800 is most likely.
2.) Resolution. People have been demanding higher resolution since January 2001. I think we'll finally see an increase for those people or at the very least a BTO option
3.) GPU. Radeon mobility 7500 is pin compatible with the radeon mobility in there currently. they do the swap and they once again have a competitive GPU. I hope they go with the 64MB version though
4.) 133 Mhz bus standard and more HD options (60GB most notably).
All those thing are very possible and reasonable for the next powerbook update which IMO will be next month. With those additions I think the Powerbook G4 would be a very good mobile publishing workstation. And one that actually gets decent battery life and doesn't break your back to bring around with you.
Here's what I propose:
1.400GHz G4 w/512KB L2 cache (PPC7460)
133MHz bus
512MB RAM
60GB 5400 IBM Travelstar
15-16" LCD with 100+ ppi (same as iBook)
NVidia GeForce 4 to Go 64MB DDR
Superdrive to go
Bluetooth
7lbs w/battery and about 1.5inches thick
$2999
Now I would buy that. Of course we know this isn't going to happen until the year 2003(Right?
[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Nostradamus ]</p>
One of Apple's problems is that they define their market too narrowly. Either you are a consumer or a professional, and other such distinctions. You must fit into the specific little box that they define or you're out of luck.
I think there is plenty of room for a notebook that is NOT as ultraportable. In the PC market, There seem to be more desktop replacements than ultraportables. Clearly, there is a healthy market for both. Apple does not begin to touch the entire spectrum of notebook buyers with the iBook and the TiBook lines. I suppose there really is no need of continuing to knock at the door if they don't want us at the party. For those of you who are tired of seeing posts that highlight great PCs, just think of us as yet another segment of the market just begging Apple to earn our business. There are many other markets that Apple seems to be ignoring as well.
I'm sure their product lines are just fine for their intended markets. I just wish they would expand their intended market to include me. When they do, I'll be ready.
[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Mac Voyer ]</p>
<strong>Ah, yet again when someone brings up the subject of fast PC's, they get the "Well then go by a PC you ****er!" So typical, it really gets annoying. You're so in love with this company (Apple) that you can't even see that this is significant and it is a real problem for Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uh, no, I like my Mac so much that I don't bother myself with MHz and how much crap a hardware company can cram into a shitty bulky enlosure, load Windows on it, and toss it out the door. Much more to using a computer than the damn processor speed, pal.
I'm not saying Apple's hardware is where it should be. Obviously there's room for improvement. What ammoying to ME is every time a company puts out some new hardware config, all these supposed "Mac people" start bitching and moaning about the state of Apple. Eugene is right - if it's so terrible, please do buy a PC. Seriously. If your happiness revolves around the clock speed of your processor, I'm surprised you own a Mac to begin with.
BING BING BING!
It's not about googlehurtz of powar or jigglebytes of RAM, it's about how the thing responds when you are using it and pricey new Macs are sluggish considering the king's ransom you pay.
PCs are fast and friendly and cheap. Buy a PC and keep your mind open.
Or keep hanging on to the silly hope that Macs will suddenly fulfill what you want.
Some people are happy with the way Macs are. Fantastic.
Some are not, fantastic, don't tie yourself to any platform out of loyalty. Keep an open mind and you'll have more fun.
i'm sure they'd love to have a 1.4 ghz g4, but they aren't available (as of now)....you think apple would purposely put a 667 in a powerbook when it could put in a 1 ghz???
those parts aren't available to them!!!!! try to keep that in mind when you bash them!!!
DDR is another issue; should be used now, but i guess they're still trying to fix the bugs in them....
"When will Apple realize that it's the 21st century?"
they know what century it is people!!!! this is the best they can offer so deal with it!!!!! if you don't like it, then buy something else!
Windows is just such a toy. That's what the problem is for me. (Hard to believe that little switch). I also value the fact that Apple's portables look so damn cool.
The PowerBook is due for an update. You can't compare it to a machine that has just begun shipping. I think this will be a large update:
800 to 1GHZ
Better resolution
casing improvements
32MB or 64 MB BTO graphics
Bigger drives, etc.....
I looked at the alienware machine. A 4200rpm travelstar? OK. Not me, thanks. It also looks freaking huge.
As far as OSX goes: Yup, its slower. But I think it is that way on purpose to make people upgrade their machines. It is pretty quick on a top of the line system. 10.2 will improve no doubt. If you have used XP, you will see that that finder functions aren't much slower if at all.
I like X anyway, and it runs pretty well on my Pismo 500/384MB, and my wife's ibook 600/256MB. And I think it wiill still vastly improve.
<strong>
As far as OSX goes: Yup, its slower. But I think it is that way on purpose to make people upgrade their machines.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please, please, please tell me that you were drunk at the time you wrote that but have now sobered up.
If MS were caught purposely crippling their OS to help out their friends at Intel and AMD, Dell and Gateway, then there would be another class action lawsuite.
If you are correct, then Apple is intentionally shafting the faithful and the faithful seem to be happy to take it. That's just not right.
Perhaps making the hardware and the software is not such a good thing after all.