Jony Ive feared Jobs would fire him on returning to Apple, book excerpt says

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 46
    lukefrench wrote: »
    proline wrote: »
     


    It was dreadful to use for anyone with normal sized hands. Serious question, is it possible you were a child back then?

    The hockey puck also had real negative impact as it solidified in the minds of many critics that Apple is a company willing to put form ahead of function and that their machines were for looking at not doing serious work. Apple has been able to win over a lot of people over time and succeed regardless, but we see echoes of this sentiment to this day. 


    Actually, it was quite comfortable to use IF you were handling it with 2 fingers on top and click with the middle finger on a low friction pad. But this is not the usual way to handle a mouse and require big hand, and the normal way was indeed both uncomfortable and unprecise.

    the biggest problem with the normal way was unwanted rotations of the puck.

    Perhaps the answer lay in skating your hand to where the puck wanted to be, rather than skating it to where the puck was.
  • Reply 22 of 46
    danielswdanielsw Posts: 906member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lee493 View Post

     



    That's often been the case after an industrial designer becomes famous.  I.E., all sorts of things attributed to Raymond Loewy were primarily the work of his understudies.




    That's how it works. Once the top dog approves something, it's his (the company's). It's his decision(s), his responsibility, his neck on the line. It's also why underlings are underlings. They're either not ready for such a position, or not fully capable to fill the position. Their work and contributions are no less valid, but they work at the behest and the pleasure of the boss and with commensurate wages, salaries, rewards, compensations, etc.

  • Reply 23 of 46
    stevehsteveh Posts: 480member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

    A round mouse is just a dumb idea. There were also technical limitations at the time, and the mouse used this little rubber ball inside, that kept getting dirty. I don't fault Apple for that, it's not like they could have shipped a laser mouse back then, but there's no excuse for the poor ergonomic design.


    Actually, they very well could have shipped a laser mouse when the puck mouse came out. Not that it would have been a good idea, mind, but it was quite possible.

     

    After I left Apple in 1985, I went to Sun Microsystems, who just happened to have an optical mouse for their workstations. Worked great, but only on the grid-patterned mouse pads that came with the optical mouse. IIRC, the mouse was made by Logitech for Sun, and at the time Sun was using ADB for its keyboards and mice with its 68K-based workstations.

     

    So Apple could have shipped an optical mouse with the first iMac, except for probably breaking cost goals, and having to use only the specific mouse pads that worked at the time.

  • Reply 24 of 46
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

     

    I second that sentiment. I've always used a 3rd party mouse. 


    Me too. I like a classic Logitech three button with indexed scroll wheel. I have a new iMac 5K with both MM and TP and sort of getting used to it. Still trying to decide which direction to scroll though. For now it is just on default but sometimes confusing when switching to a different machine.

  • Reply 25 of 46
    hypoluxahypoluxa Posts: 694member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

    Me too. I like a classic Logitech three button with indexed scroll wheel. I have a new iMac 5K with both MM and TP and sort of getting used to it. Still trying to decide which direction to scroll though. For now it is just on default but sometimes confusing when switching to a different machine.


    I have nice wireless 3 button/scroll wheel from Logi too. Apple has never designed a good mouse IMO. Ever.

  • Reply 26 of 46
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    cali wrote: »
    The design is better than any windows mouse I've seen. But it was hard to use.

    What does a "windows" mouse look like?
  • Reply 27 of 46
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post





    What does a "windows" mouse look like?



    Ugly?

     

    :)

  • Reply 28 of 46
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    That mouse was awful. There was no way for the hand to feel which orientation it was in and keep it that way. Utterly ridiculous.

    No, Apple has never made a decent mouse. The body-button idea is equally rubbish and the secondary/right click is rubbish on all body-button mice. A mouse shouldn't click accidentally when you pick it up and set it down slightly heavily.

    Also, Ive doesn't know a damn thing about GUI design. He has ruined the most elegant mobile computing platform ever made.
  • Reply 29 of 46
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

    Of course it wasn't that big of a deal, because anybody who wanted to, could just hook up a third party mouse or trackball to the iMac, as it was one of the first computers to feature USB, if not the first.


    Plenty of PCs has USB but there were very few devices that used it. I remember my Windows computer (Dell?) at work had them.

    It wasn’t until it was included on the iMac that USB really took off.

  • Reply 30 of 46
    19831983 Posts: 1,225member
    I'm not so sure Ive and team are as good today as they used to be. Those messy plastic antenna openings on the back of the iPhone 6 still bug me and the 6 Plus is ungainly and too large for the screen size compared to competing models. Also the Apple Watch while a good design overall, still looks too standard smartwatch in its proportions.

    I'm hoping Apple get the design right with the iPhone 7, until then I'm keeping my 5S which still strikes me as a more classy device than the 6.
  • Reply 31 of 46
    robbyxrobbyx Posts: 479member
    proline wrote: »

    As he exists today, Ive is in a league of his own. However, 'Ive' today is not one man but a whole team of expert designers backed by a huge number of expert engineers and unlimited money. He also has a huge amount of experience to draw on, including dreadful designs like the hockey puck and failed designs like the cube and Newton. It stands to reason then that he has surpassed Esslinger.

    I think the hockey puck mouse was all Jobs. Just like the Cube. Before NeXT got out of the hardware business, they went to a hockey puck mouse design. It sucked just as bad then as it did on the iMac.
  • Reply 32 of 46
    apple ][ wrote: »
    That has got to be one of the worst things that he's ever designed. Somebody should ask him in an interview what he thinks about it today.

    I bought one of those early iMacs, and I was happy with the machine, but the Hockey Puck Mouse was an abomination, even when it was released.

    It was horrible to use. Ergonomically speaking, it was a pain in the ass and not really made for human hands. A round mouse is just a dumb idea. There were also technical limitations at the time, and the mouse used this little rubber ball inside, that kept getting dirty. I don't fault Apple for that, it's not like they could have shipped a laser mouse back then, but there's no excuse for the poor ergonomic design.

    Of course it wasn't that big of a deal, because anybody who wanted to, could just hook up a third party mouse or trackball to the iMac, as it was one of the first computers to feature USB, if not the first.

    I probably still have that hockey puck mouse laying around in some box somewhere.

    I've got my hockey puck on my wall next to my killer Mac setup :-) It was my first Mac and I fell in love straight away.
  • Reply 33 of 46
    netroxnetrox Posts: 1,452member
    Ivy should have not become a software UX - the UX is just damn awful. Everything's too skinny, too gaudy, and not intuitive at all.
  • Reply 34 of 46
    mnbob1mnbob1 Posts: 269member


    I agree that Jobs saw talent. 

    Whether that talent is in good hands is an open question.

    In my opinion the talent at Apple is in very good hands. If you look at design and the innovative technology that is being developed and used in Apple products it's clear that Apple is working to control its ecosystem. The iPhone has continued to include Apple designed innovations that are ahead of the competition. The analysts and complainers are concerned that too much Apple's revenue comes from iPhone. What other product category in that price range can you think of that runs a 24 month cycle? On top of that Apple is the most profitable and has a very loyal customer base. Tim Cook has guided Apple to be the most valuable company in history. He and the team there seem to be doing something right.
  • Reply 35 of 46
    mnbob1mnbob1 Posts: 269member
    nagromme wrote: »
    I want to hear how Ives got locked up in the White Dimension, whether he went voluntarily, and how often he does or doesn't visit this world.

    The use of white space in design is not new. It's been used in printed materials for a long time. When color displays became available for electronics there was an urge to make everything very colorful to show off the display. In reality the simple use of white combined with color where it makes sense is much better for the human eyes and brain to comprehend and understand.
  • Reply 36 of 46
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    mnbob1 wrote: »
    In my opinion the talent at Apple is in very good hands. If you look at design and the innovative technology that is being developed and used in Apple products it's clear that Apple is working to control its ecosystem. The iPhone has continued to include Apple designed innovations that are ahead of the competition. The analysts and complainers are concerned that too much Apple's revenue comes from iPhone. What other product category in that price range can you think of that runs a 24 month cycle? On top of that Apple is the most profitable and has a very loyal customer base. Tim Cook has guided Apple to be the most valuable company in history. He and the team there seem to be doing something right.

    Don't feed the troll. BF has an unhealthy and wrong opinion on Cook despite the facts.
  • Reply 37 of 46
    silenciosilencio Posts: 134member

    Not only was the iMac "hockey puck" mouse bad, but the mini USB keyboard that came with it was a big step down in quality from Apple's ADB keyboards. I remember actually holding off on buying a new PowerMac G4 until Apple rectified those shortcomings, and they finally did with the Pro Keyboard and Pro Mouse that shipped with the PowerMac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet) and the G4 Cube in 2000. 

     

    The only good thing about their original USB keyboard is that it was narrow enough to fit in an equipment rack, so I did use them for that purpose for a while.

  • Reply 38 of 46
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,385member

    I agree that Jobs saw talent. 

    Whether that talent is in good hands is an open question.


    It's only an "open question" to insufferable trolls like you- not to sane, objective, and rational people that can see straight, without a vitriolic trolling agenda and contempt for reality.
  • Reply 39 of 46
    slurpy wrote: »

    I agree that Jobs saw talent. 

    Whether that talent is in good hands is an open question.


    It's only an "open question" to insufferable trolls like you- not to sane, objective, and rational people that can see straight, without a vitriolic trolling agenda and contempt for reality.

    Reality is over-rated.
  • Reply 40 of 46
    rubaiyatrubaiyat Posts: 277member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Silencio View Post

     

    Not only was the iMac "hockey puck" mouse bad, but the mini USB keyboard that came with it was a big step down in quality from Apple's ADB keyboards. I remember actually holding off on buying a new PowerMac G4 until Apple rectified those shortcomings, and they finally did with the Pro Keyboard and Pro Mouse that shipped with the PowerMac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet) and the G4 Cube in 2000. 

     

    The only good thing about their original USB keyboard is that it was narrow enough to fit in an equipment rack, so I did use them for that purpose for a while.




    Ives has a 'round' fetish.

     

    I still have an Indigo iMac just so I can relive the hockey puck aggravation. Unfortunately I ditched the original keyboard.

Sign In or Register to comment.