Tim Cook 'deeply disappointed' by new Indiana anti-gay law

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Comments

  • Reply 261 of 551
    rkevwillrkevwill Posts: 224member
    Are the people who are against this law familiar, that it follows a US supreme court decision? Are they also aware its previously, and currently, in 16 other states? I'm not for or against it, but I'm for people being aware of the facts. Find it kind of strange they are concentrating on Indiana.
  • Reply 262 of 551

  • Reply 263 of 551
    splifsplif Posts: 603member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rkevwill View Post



    Are the people who are against this law familiar, that it follows a US supreme court decision? Are they also aware its previously, and currently, in 16 other states? I'm not for or against it, but I'm for people being aware of the facts. Find it kind of strange they are concentrating on Indiana.

    While similar bills have been introduced in several conservative states that have been court-ordered to embrace marriage equality, only one state has signed such a bill into law: Mississippi.

  • Reply 264 of 551
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,324member
    magman1979 wrote: »
    I think this site should consider NOT publishing ANY articles on this topic any further, unless the mods really have the cahuna's to step-up their game finally...
    Yet another person seeking to limit our Freedom. How sad!

    Moderators tend to censure speech rather than promote a free flow of ideals. I myself am pleased at the article and that we are free to discuss it here, even with heated discussion on all sides. AppleInsider, you have my personal thanks for siding with LIBERTY in your forums!

    To dislike our talk in this thread is to dislike Genuine Freedom. True freedom doesn't mean everyone will agree with you, or that everyone will respect others. I feel disrespected when you so-called "educated" people lower yourselves to use profanity, yet am I crying to the moderators to censure such foolishness? No. It's called FREEDOM.

    Live and let live, folks. And part of that means if you are unwelcome at one store, don't be stupid and file a lawsuit. Just go to another store. Find that hard in one state? Move to another state. (I for one moved outside of the US altogether 20 years ago.) Therein lies the point of all this. This is ONE STATE, people. Stop propping up a bloated Fed and give states back some freedom to decide as they choose, even if you yourself don't like it. Stop trying to be an advocate for what YOU think are "crimes against humanity." This is not genocide, folks.

    LIVE AND LET LIVE.
  • Reply 265 of 551
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    Not in the least. The point is we are talking about deviant behavior here. That is sexual drives that are not the norm. So you must ask yourself how far are you willing to go with your demand that business should be required to serve all comers?

    Im still right because the point here is the freedom to do business with those that you are willing to associate with.



    Look at it this way, say you own a hotel and a motor cycle gang comes into town and wants to stay at you hotel. Should you be required to lodge them? What if you are a member of a rival gang? If you say no then why? If you say no would you also refuse a conference for a bunch of child molesters? If you would then why all of a sudden must you do business with gays?



    On a side note many of the child molesters out there are indeed gay, so from that perspective the two are somewhat related.

     

    Wow, just wow!

     

    A child molester is attracted to children, their gender is irrelevant. Many, I'd say most, child molesters are in fact hetero. Why? Because there are way more heteros in contact with children, than gays. You know, since there are 2-3% of gays and 97% that aren't.

    Give me recent studies that tell us that prevalence of abuse by gays is higher than heteros; I doubt such a thing exists.

     

    BTW, being a genius, a 8 foot person, a woman with 20 children is not the norm, what does this have to do with anything. Norm is a statistical term, meaning average, and has no value statement attached to it at all.

     

    What makes pedofilia abhorent is its non consensual aspect (children can't legally give consent, the reason for that is related to the cognitive devellopment of children) and not its abnormality; it hurts someone and that's why it is punished. Even there, there is a grey when it related to teens since the age of consent is not uniform world wide.

     

    BTW, even a pedophile, if he's served his time and abides by the condition of his liberation has to be served everywhere; I'll defend that tooth and nails. Why? Because otherwise the whole point of justice, punishment and rehabilitation, would be meaningless. Someone committing a crime would forever be marked as such and not be able to ever recover no matter how they changed later on. Some people, may want to know if they are in the neighborhood (though most abuse is done by a child's close family and not a stranger), and I can understand that; but, otherwise I defend even these people's rights.

     

    If you are a member of a rival gang and you own a hotel and refuse entry to that other gang and they've done nothing illegal or against the rules of the establishment (you know, the same rule that apply to everyone else), I'm guessing you'll be murdered, beat up or if your lucky hit with a lawsuit eventually, and that's that. See how that straw man goes....

  • Reply 266 of 551
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JDW View Post





    Yet another person seeking to limit our Freedom. How sad!



    Moderators tend to censure speech rather than promote a free flow of ideals. I myself am pleased at the article and that we are free to discuss it here, even with heated discussion on all sides. AppleInsider, you have my personal thanks for siding with LIBERTY in your forums!



    To dislike our talk in this thread is to dislike Genuine Freedom. True freedom doesn't mean everyone will agree with you, or that everyone will respect others. I feel disrespected when you so-called "educated" people lower yourselves to use profanity, yet am I crying to the moderators to censure such foolishness? No. It's called FREEDOM.



    Live and let live, folks. And part of that means if you are unwelcome at one store, don't be stupid and file a lawsuit. Just go to another store. Find that hard in one state? Move to another state. (I for one moved outside of the US altogether 20 years ago.) Therein lies the point of all this. This is ONE STATE, people. Stop propping up a bloated Fed and give states back some freedom to decide as they choose, even if you yourself don't like it. Stop trying to be an advocate for what YOU think are "crimes against humanity." This is not genocide, folks.



    LIVE AND LET LIVE.

     

    Wow! I just can't believe what I read here. Un-F****** believeable!

     

    Changing states! Should your whole family, or extended family move too?

    Refugees inside the US, tramping from state to state to find a place that will serve your kind...?

     

    Guess the blacks did that and moved north during the segregation era (thank god racism wasn't too bad up north in Indiana... Oops) while bigoted white turds stayed in place to beat up the unlucky few who couldn't go, or wouldn't go because hey, they like the good weather too and they've been there for 200 years.

     

    Funny how bigots are all for small government when they need the state government to cover their asses.

     

    BTW, I'm LBGT and by your standards and the way the US is moving towards acceptance, eventually it is you who would have to move overseas because no one would want to serve YOU. Hey, live and let live hmmm (sic). Prepare your ticket when you motto comes back to bite you in the ass.

     

    No, running is over they will sue, sue big and win big. That's how its done in 2015.

  • Reply 267 of 551
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     



    I disagree. A business isn't the same thing as the government. The government cannot violate our individual rights without violating the Constitution. A proprietor should be able to discriminate against any person, as shortsighted and disgusting as that may seem, and I'm sure none here would argue that discrimination based on skin color, gender or religious affiliation is a laudable trait.


     

    I think we've probably got more well development anti-discrimination laws here in the UK, but I completely disagree with you.  Under no circumstances should the religious beliefs of one person impede an the ability of someone else to purchase the products and services the religious person is offering. 

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

     

     

     

    I see no distinction between your two examples at all.

     

    The Bed and Breakfast refused the couple because they had reasonable grounds to believe that they would engage in homosexual behaviour, which they would effectively be encouraging by admitting them. That was on religious grounds, just as it would have been for an unmarried couple. It was quite wrong of them to be ruled against, and reflects the great evil in society today.

     

    How is your photo shoot example any different? It has no logic, for a start. You think that businesses shouldn’t have to provide things outside what they usually provide? Why? That makes no sense at all. And how do you define it? This is where your argument breaks down. 

     

    Generally, people are in business for business. The aim is to at least earn a living. People should be allowed to serve who they like, based on their own personal judgment, not any dictatorship-imposed mandate. 

     

    I get the impression that liberals love to bring up this bogeyman of swathes of businesses suddenly turning away all blacks, latinos, etc. Businesses have to make money! I imagine that any business that used to serve 80% black customers that decided not to serve them would go bankrupt very quickly.

     

    We need to get away from this historical mistrust of the government against the people and put our trust in people's humanity; that is the only way to truly be free. It’s no wonder that confidence in government is at an all-time low, what with the NSA, privacy issues, etc.


     

    If you let people make their own decisions about who they can and can't discriminate against, bigotted people will make bigotted decisions.  That's why, the UK at least, has laws to prevent those people from being discriminatory in that way.   

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25119158

  • Reply 268 of 551
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,324member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by foggyhill View Post

     

    Un-F****** believeable!

    ...bigoted white turds...

    ...bigots are all for small government when....

    BTW, I'm LBGT and by your standards...


     

    An abundant use of colorful metaphors.  But it's wonderful that you have the FREEDOM to vent steam here.  And I find it wonderful that those who disagree with you have that same LIBERTY in this forum.  

     

    My "standard" is rooted in Liberty and self-control.  There once was a time someone would slip and fall in a store and they would pick up their aching body and go home.  They didn't blame the store, even if the floor was slick.  But that was before my time.  Even back in the 80's when I lived in California, I remember the TV ads: "Had an accident?  Call John Riley.  John Riley got me $100,000!"  It's only gotten worse since then, it would seem.  But again, I reside outside the US now, so I am not directly impacted by the legal terror now commonplace in the USA.

     

    Since you are LBGT you might be more open-minded toward the educated opinion of another LBGT man who has an excellent grasp of American LIBERTY:

     

    http://tinyurl.com/oup5hsl

  • Reply 269 of 551
    idreyidrey Posts: 647member
    Is amazing how religion is always use to descriminate and sk harm instead of doing good and help others. Is not tht what religion preaches? Tolerance, respect, good will and all that good stuff
  • Reply 270 of 551
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by idrey View Post



    Is amazing how religion is always use to descriminate and sk harm instead of doing good and help others. Is not tht what religion preaches? Tolerance, respect, good will and all that good stuff



    This.  Religion is being used in this instance as a thinly veiled cover to treat some people less equal than others.

  • Reply 271 of 551
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by idrey View Post



    Is amazing how religion is always use to descriminate and sk harm instead of doing good and help others. Is not tht what religion preaches? Tolerance, respect, good will and all that good stuff



    Religion is almost always a method toward degrading and abusing others.  That's just the way it is.  

  • Reply 272 of 551
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member

    I just don't understand the Christian right. Jesus taught tolerance, love and forgiveness. How did that simple message get so warped? What happened to turning the other cheek? 

  • Reply 273 of 551
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    richl wrote: »
    I just don't understand the Christian right. Jesus taught tolerance, love and forgiveness. How did that simple message get so warped? What happened to turning the other cheek? 

    To be fair, there's plenty of intolerance in opposing camps for either respecting or simply ignoring personal opinions.
  • Reply 274 of 551
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NapyBlue View Post



    I lived in Chicago when the Bulls won their six world championships. We all know Michael Jordan was the key to those championships. Jordan was criticized for not getting involved in the politics of the day. MJ stayed focused on basketball to the benefit of the Chicago Bulls.



    As a Apple shareholder who respects and appreciates Tim Cook I wish he would take the same approach. His job is to continue to "win championships" for Apple, not to get distracted by the politics of the day. This Indiana law will not have any impact on Apple unless Cook wants it to do so. Tim, please focus on driving the sale of Apple products and leave the politics to the politicians.

     

     

    What a narrow view. Tim is a leader and role model. He is also a private citizen. He is free to champion views he believes in. Further, many companies, including Apple, believe these types of laws are bad for business. Moreover, recent Supreme Court rulings treat corporations the same as people, protecting a corporation's right to free speech on the same level as a regular person [a view I disagree with]. Companies like Target have contributed heavily to anti-gay marriage legislation [and the Court views these contributions as free speech], I see no reason why Apple can't do the opposite. 

     

    Further, being a shareholder means you get votes equal to the amount of shares you own in corporate proposals. Nothing more. I doubt you have enough votes to out vote Tim Cook's shares. A corporation is free to run its business as it sees fit, including getting involved in social issues, charity, etc.

     

    If you are unhappy with the governance of a publicly trade company, your remedy is simple. You sell the stock. 

  • Reply 275 of 551
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JDW View Post

     

     

    An abundant use of colorful metaphors.  But it's wonderful that you have the FREEDOM to vent steam here.  And I find it wonderful that those who disagree with you have that same LIBERTY in this forum.  

     

    My "standard" is rooted in Liberty and self-control.  There once was a time someone would slip and fall in a store and they would pick up their aching body and go home.  They didn't blame the store, even if the floor was slick.  But that was before my time.  Even back in the 80's when I lived in California, I remember the TV ads: "Had an accident?  Call John Riley.  John Riley got me $100,000!"  It's only gotten worse since then, it would seem.  But again, I reside outside the US now, so I am not directly impacted by the legal terror now commonplace in the USA.

     

    Since you are LBGT you might be more open-minded toward the educated opinion of another LBGT man who has an excellent grasp of American LIBERTY:

     

    http://tinyurl.com/oup5hsl


     

    Maybe I'd even get put in jail for slapping that passive aggressive silliness out of you if you said it in my face.... Yeah, there is freedom of saying outrageous things on the Internet (sic).

     

    Live and let live lets the poor, the sick, minorities, uneducated, the elderly and any powerless live and are trapped in abject poverty and die young; its the ultimate sociopath's fantasy. At the state and fed level, policies are a select few with actual keep all their money, which quickly piles up from generation to generation (you know, trickle down will help others...) while the poor and most of the middle class cannot pay for an education, barely scrapes by and eventually become even poorer.  That's been tried before and there's a reason why most of the top countries don't work that way anymore.

     

    It removes redistribution of wealth and ironically needs state enforcement to keep civil rights of any kind down (because that gay/black/jew/poor person who is not being served, may not take it so well), or just unrest from the downtrodden masses who don't know their place, or whose "life" cannot find a place to "live" anywhere (sic)... Were have we seen that before?

     

    The Jim Crow south were poverty reigned supreme except for a small minority and many totalitarian states ruled by an elite that's more free to "live their lives" than the rest.

     

    As for being LBGT, I got more judgemental crap from gay man than even from straight men, who at least didn't think they could patronizingly understand. me because they were gay....

    Hint, I'm not a gay man...

     

    BTW, I'm a Canadian who lived in the US for many years.  I've seen you're so called liberty up front, including a sexual assault by southern bigots 30 years ago (I guess it is because I dared pass through that town with a butch cut, hey I'm "reformed" I no longer have that haircut...), so you can spare me the American dream speech.

  • Reply 276 of 551
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post





    To be fair, there's plenty of intolerance in opposing camps for either respecting or simply ignoring personal opinions.

     

    Maybe because "personal opinion" when coming with a majority with legislative power is printed in big bold letters with on the club that strikes the dissenter down...  That's were the fury of the oppressed come from; it doesn't come from a cozy discussion around a table by philosophers drinking good coffee. Thank god (sic) for the constitution because everyone, no matter the opinion, would be screwed eventually otherwise. We humans are often horrible at living in society.

  • Reply 277 of 551
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    napyblue wrote: »
    I lived in Chicago when the Bulls won their six world championships. We all know Michael Jordan was the key to those championships. Jordan was criticized for not getting involved in the politics of the day. MJ stayed focused on basketball to the benefit of the Chicago Bulls.

    As a Apple shareholder who respects and appreciates Tim Cook I wish he would take the same approach. His job is to continue to "win championships" for Apple, not to get distracted by the politics of the day. This Indiana law will not have any impact on Apple unless Cook wants it to do so. Tim, please focus on driving the sale of Apple products and leave the politics to the politicians.

    Compassion is a human experience, not a political statement. If you ever come to understand Cook's motivation you'll realize it's not done for political relations. The very fact that people like you think basic humanity is politically motivated is why people like Cook need to take a vocal stand in favour of inalienable human rights. Personally, I'd rather never have to comment on what I know should be obvious to all, but the reality is there is too much hate, ignorance, and fear for me to stay quite when good people are being maligned for no other reason than being born a certain way.
  • Reply 278 of 551
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    Yep, no gays would be executed under this law. It isn't any where near as bad as people are making it out to be. It is no different than giving people the right to not do business with a child molester.



    So being gay or Jewish is somehow synonymous with being a child molester? I read a lot of stupid stuff here but you're post is the stupidest thing I've read thus far. I'm sure it will only get better.

  • Reply 279 of 551
    jdw wrote: »
    magman1979 wrote: »
    I think this site should consider NOT publishing ANY articles on this topic any further, unless the mods really have the cahuna's to step-up their game finally...
    Yet another person seeking to limit our Freedom. How sad!

    Moderators tend to censure speech rather than promote a free flow of ideals. I myself am pleased at the article and that we are free to discuss it here, even with heated discussion on all sides. AppleInsider, you have my personal thanks for siding with LIBERTY in your forums!

    To dislike our talk in this thread is to dislike Genuine Freedom. True freedom doesn't mean everyone will agree with you, or that everyone will respect others. I feel disrespected when you so-called "educated" people lower yourselves to use profanity, yet am I crying to the moderators to censure such foolishness? No. It's called FREEDOM.

    Live and let live, folks. And part of that means if you are unwelcome at one store, don't be stupid and file a lawsuit. Just go to another store. Find that hard in one state? Move to another state. (I for one moved outside of the US altogether 20 years ago.) Therein lies the point of all this. This is ONE STATE, people. Stop propping up a bloated Fed and give states back some freedom to decide as they choose, even if you yourself don't like it. Stop trying to be an advocate for what YOU think are "crimes against humanity." This is not genocide, folks.

    LIVE AND LET LIVE.

    Well said.
  • Reply 280 of 551

    What are some of you guys going to do knowing that your beloved Apple products are engineered and supported by talented people of many races and different sexual orientations? How do you live with yourself knowing that you support and have financial stake in an inclusive organization whose CEO speak against social injustice? You may  want to follow JDW and Benjamin Frost's advice and dump your AAPL stock and get rid of your Apple gadgets and buy Samsung...oh wait...

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