LAUSD seeks multimillion-dollar refund from Apple for scrapped iPad in education program

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 45
    castcorecastcore Posts: 141member
    If the school is dumb enough to fight Apple in court , let them. Using school budget for lawyers against the biggest company in the world. Sounds like a group of dumb school administrators
  • Reply 22 of 45
    cash907cash907 Posts: 893member
    ecats wrote: »
    I definitely don't see a legitimate reason why a large scale roll out of chromebooks would take place with persons under the age of legal consent. The device's relatively high cost of ownership, heavy reliance on data, keeping personal data and documents away from the user, the small number of apps/difficulty in development and platform immaturity (not to mention regular, slowly patched, security issues.)

    You've never used a Chromebook, have you? My 8 year olds school has them in every classroom and they work great. Content controls are comprehensive and easily set up, the units themselves are cheap but well built and sturdy, and the kids love them. Price was a huge factor as well, as you can buy 2-3 chromebooks for the same price as 1 iPad depending on model. The open architecture of Chrome OS allows for many low cost software options, in stark contrast to iOS. Security, as far as I know, isn't an issue either according to the school's IT guy who manages them all and who's daughter is in my sons class as well.
  • Reply 23 of 45
    totaltotal Posts: 83member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

     

    Look, Pearson Education is a garbage company, with garbage products. This is widely known.

     

    Why is this Apple's fault?


    because it seems it was joint deal Apple&Pearson so Apple is partly responsible for that, they should choose different partner.

  • Reply 24 of 45
    bradipaobradipao Posts: 145member
    Look, Pearson Education is a garbage company, with garbage products. This is widely known.

    Why is this Apple's fault?

    If the school district signed a deal with Apple (I'm not sure), and Pearson was a subcontractor with Apple, Apple is responsible for the whole deal.
  • Reply 25 of 45
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Look, Pearson Education is a garbage company, with garbage products. This is widely known.

    Why is this Apple's fault?

    Clarification: Pearson is a huge conglomeration in a once diverse market of publishers including Addison Wesley, Prentice Hall, and many more high quality technical book publishers.

    Conservatives allowed consolidation in publishing and prices quadrupled.

    Then there is Cengage and McGraw-Hill.

    Where the hell is the real competition? There used to be 50 high quality professional/technical publishing houses. Now we have 3 major ones and 3 minor ones.
  • Reply 26 of 45
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,023member

    I don't understand the article.  Why are they demanding Apple return money?  What product or service was the money paid for, and did Apple deliver it?  If they didn't, then sure, the money should be refunded.  If they did, then what are the grounds for demanding the refund?  Will there be an equivalent transfer of product back to Apple?  What were the terms of the contract?

     

    More information needed before an opinion can be formed.

  • Reply 27 of 45
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    crowley wrote: »
    I don't understand the article.  Why are they demanding Apple return money?  What product or service was the money paid for, and did Apple deliver it?  If they didn't, then sure, the money should be refunded.  If they did, then what are the grounds for demanding the refund?  Will there be an equivalent transfer of product back to Apple?  What were the terms of the contract?

    More information needed before an opinion can be formed.
    IIRC it was a bundled deal, Apple working with Pearson to offer a package that included both an iPad and curriculum for a set price. There wasn't a separate Pearson contract with the district as far as I can tell from reading up on it. That would have been between Apple and Pearson, meaning Apple is the one they have to look to if any funds are to be recovered due to unsatisfactory class software.
  • Reply 28 of 45
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,774member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

     

    I don't understand the article.  Why are they demanding Apple return money?  What product or service was the money paid for, and did Apple deliver it?  If they didn't, then sure, the money should be refunded.  If they did, then what are the grounds for demanding the refund?  Will there be an equivalent transfer of product back to Apple?  What were the terms of the contract?

     

    More information needed before an opinion can be formed.


    The LA School district is shaming Apple publicly. Had they come to Apple in private I would've negotiated something. However now, I'd probably make them go to court to get a judgement. In actuality, LA School district needs to own the fact that they didn't do their homework on the terms of the deal... maybe they should've tested it out first before going all in on this deal. You'd think educators should know better. However, they aren't the brightest of the bunch and are paid accordingly. 

  • Reply 29 of 45

    This explains why Pearson recently decided to sell off the the part of the company that contains the various Student Information Systems (including PowerSchool which used to be owned by Apple) that they're been hoovering up. I guess they were hoping that some sucker would be left holding the bag for this  fiasco.

  • Reply 30 of 45
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,023member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    IIRC it was a bundled deal, Apple working with Pearson to offer a package that included both an iPad and curriculum for a set price. There wasn't a separate Pearson contract with the district as far as I can tell from reading up on it. That would have been between Apple and Pearson, meaning Apple is the one they have to look to if any funds are to be recovered due to unsatisfactory class software.

    Then this is completely reasonable.

  • Reply 31 of 45
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,023member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

     

    The LA School district is shaming Apple publicly. Had they come to Apple in private I would've negotiated something. However now, I'd probably make them go to court to get a judgement. In actuality, LA School district needs to own the fact that they didn't do their homework on the terms of the deal... maybe they should've tested it out first before going all in on this deal. You'd think educators should know better. However, they aren't the brightest of the bunch and are paid accordingly. 


    What evidence do you have that the LASD is shaming them publically?  This isn't a press release or a legal proceeding, it's a report from a radio station that LASD have done exactly what you say, contacted Apple privately as a matter of business.

  • Reply 32 of 45
    nousernouser Posts: 65member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

     

    Look, Pearson Education is a garbage company, with garbage products. This is widely known.

     

    Why is this Apple's fault?




    Because they have no money and Apple does.  Leaches only suck where there is blood.

  • Reply 33 of 45
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    Look, Pearson Education is a garbage company, with garbage products. This is widely known.

    Why is this Apple's fault?

    nouser wrote: »

    Because they have no money and Apple does.  Leaches only suck where there is blood.
    No, they have to approach Apple because they're the party to the contract and not Pearson. Apple's contract with the LASD was a bundled education deal and not just for iPads. It will be up to Apple to recover from Pearson.
  • Reply 34 of 45
    LAUSD was using 30 year school construction bond money to pay for these iPads. Good job LAUSD.
  • Reply 35 of 45
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post





    Clarification: Pearson is a huge conglomeration in a once diverse market of publishers including Addison Wesley, Prentice Hall, and many more high quality technical book publishers.



    Conservatives allowed consolidation in publishing and prices quadrupled.



    Then there is Cengage and McGraw-Hill.



    Where the hell is the real competition? There used to be 50 high quality professional/technical publishing houses. Now we have 3 major ones and 3 minor ones.



    I knew it!  Bush's fault!

  • Reply 36 of 45
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    nufegiyq wrote: »
    I can't remember the last time I commented on these forums. I mostly sit back, read and sometimes scoff or laugh. This subject, however, really makes me angry. I work for a different Southern California school district. We implemented an amazingly successful iPad program about three years ago. We are also a very very low income district that, fortunately, has the funds and apparently the know how.. My school in particular also tried chromebooks. They did ok but the iPad's were a lot more flexible. I can garuentee the LAUSD issues reside with the district and not with Apple.

    The LAUSD is hyper-politicized and has been dysfunctional for decades.
  • Reply 37 of 45
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

     



    I knew it!  Bush's fault!


     

    How about Amazon's fault!  Popularity of Digital Books means paper book sales slow down, don't need as many company's making paper books!!!   I know everything is Bush's fault even though Obama has tripled down on everything Bush did!!!  

  • Reply 38 of 45
    I suspect Apple is likely at no real fault here, just deep pockets. They would have limited their involvement to supplying iPads. There is probably nothing wrong with the iPads. If Apple were smart, it would go ahead and refund the cost of the iPads for their RETURN, and then turn around and donate all the used iPads to impoverished schools.
  • Reply 39 of 45
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,614member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post





    Clarification: Pearson is a huge conglomeration in a once diverse market of publishers including Addison Wesley, Prentice Hall, and many more high quality technical book publishers.



    Conservatives allowed consolidation in publishing and prices quadrupled.



    Then there is Cengage and McGraw-Hill.



    Where the hell is the real competition? There used to be 50 high quality professional/technical publishing houses. Now we have 3 major ones and 3 minor ones.



    I'm no Conservative, but I think it's ridiculous to blame Conservatives for the consolidation of the educational publishing business, however unfortunate that consolidation might have been.    Consolidation of both trade and educational publishing has been going on since the mid-1960s during both Democratic and Republican administrations.     

     

    The real reason why El-Hi educational publishing has consolidated over recent decades is because of reduced school budgets and because of the adoption process.   In about half the states, including the three biggest: California, Texas and Florida, you can't sell a textbook in the State until it's approved by an adoption board.    Even back in the 80's, a new reading program series would cost $20 million to develop and math only slightly less.   But if you lost one of the big adoptions, you were basically out of business for the next five years or so.  Net margins in El-Hi educational publishing were never that great to begin with, even though they didn't pay all that well. And even when there were more educational publishers, the resulting texts weren't all that different from each other because they were created to win adoptions and so were at the mercy of the adoption boards.   Whatever Texas, California and Florida wanted, the whole country got.

     

    Trade publishing has consolidated as well.   Once Bertelsmann bought Random House and Bantam-Doubleday-Dell they owned 25% of U.S. Trade publishing.   And since then, they've merged with Penguin.   I bet they now own around 35-40% of U.S. Trade publishing and in any case are the largest English-language publishing company in the world.   In the U.S. alone, Random House owns 43 imprints and Penguin owns another 17, the majority of which were separate independent publishers at one time.  

     

    No different than the record industry where we now have only three majors:  

    Sony, which owns the former CBS and RCA (later BMG) labels, including Columbia, Epic, Legacy, Arista, Masterworks and RCA.

     

    Universal (Vivendi), which owns Interscope, Geffin, A&M, Island, Def-Jam, Mercury, Motown,  Republic, Capitol, Virgin, Blue Note, parts of the former EMI, MCA, Verve, Decca, Polydor, Mercury, London and a whole slew of defunct labels.    

     

    Warner (Access Industries), which owns Atlantic, Elektra, Warner Bros., Nonesuch, Reprise, Parlophone, parts of the former EMI, etc.

     

    I think that consolidation has hurt the industry, but there's really nothing anyone could have done about it.   The U.S. record industry is a third of its former peak size if you evaluate in equivalent dollars. 

     

    Unless Congress was going to pass laws banning foreign ownership of U.S. publishing and record companies, this was all inevitable and I wouldn't be surprised to see even more consolidation of the trade publishing industry in the future.

  • Reply 40 of 45
    This is ugly. The school district was shady to start with, there where two complaints one was iPad security which literally was the district failing to set things up right you can completely lock down iPads. The second was the Pearson software. Anyone who deals with them knows there software is crap. Whenever someone pops up with a better product Pearson buys them and kills it. Ive watched them do it so many times in the ed market its sickening. Its also one of the main reasons a lot of people want to see open source text books take off.

    Sounds like the big issue was Pearson never delivered they promised their software would be compatible with iPads and never finished making there software compatible. I can easily see this. Most of the education stuff is based on flash, and has to be rewritten in a non flash standard for iPads. Pearson probably figured they hire some people cheap in india and have them convert it. The project is probably mismanaged and massively behind. And Pearson is probably telling the district its Apples Fault for not supporting flash. The district is suing everyone hoping to get some money out of someone. Good luck with that.
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