Apple's dwindling iPod lineup to see long-awaited refresh this year

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 91
    mr omr o Posts: 1,046member

    C'mon Apple, finish off the Point & Shoot camera's.

     

    Thank you, Continuity.

  • Reply 42 of 91
    satchmosatchmo Posts: 2,699member

    I'd love to see an iPod nano with built in GPS (for running) and maps.  I know this will never happen. It would simply kill potential Apple Watch sales.

  • Reply 43 of 91
    calicali Posts: 3,495member
    People complaining that sales and profit are down.....
    Ummmm maybe just MAYBE the reason is because iPod hasn't been updated in years??
    They should really differentiate the line from their other products. Maybe let the beats team handle it, they know what sells.

    There's still a good market for iPod touch and I see kids with them all the time. Sometimes they even show up on reality TV shows. I know Kitchen Nightmares always hands them out to "modernize" waitresses taking your order and that's just one brilliant idea.

    Apple owns the MP3 player market and though it isn't huge anymore why would they throw that whole market away?
  • Reply 44 of 91
    joelsaltjoelsalt Posts: 827member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cali View Post



    People complaining that sales and profit are down.....

    Ummmm maybe just MAYBE the reason is because iPod hasn't been updated in years??

    They should really differentiate the line from their other products. Maybe let the beats team handle it, they know what sells.



    There's still a good market for iPod touch and I see kids with them all the time. Sometimes they even show up on reality TV shows. I know Kitchen Nightmares always hands them out to "modernize" waitresses taking your order and that's just one brilliant idea.



    Apple owns the MP3 player market and though it isn't huge anymore why would they throw that whole market away?



    Agreed.  $410M is not much for apple, but its still $410M.

  • Reply 45 of 91
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,160member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cali View Post



    People complaining that sales and profit are down.....

    Ummmm maybe just MAYBE the reason is because iPod hasn't been updated in years??

    They should really differentiate the line from their other products. Maybe let the beats team handle it, they know what sells.



    There's still a good market for iPod touch and I see kids with them all the time. Sometimes they even show up on reality TV shows. I know Kitchen Nightmares always hands them out to "modernize" waitresses taking your order and that's just one brilliant idea.



    Apple owns the MP3 player market and though it isn't huge anymore why would they throw that whole market away?

    I think sales are down because an iPod isn't a product you buy every year. I think a ton of people still use mp3 players, but don't necessarily need to buy one often. I'm still using an iPod Classic. I bought 2 new ones when Apple discontinued them. The only other iPod I've bought is a Nano. I agree that there still is a big market for an iPod. All my nieces and nephews have an iPod touch. They are great for kids and adults as well. 

  • Reply 46 of 91
    formosaformosa Posts: 261member

    The consumer use of the iPod Touch may have a dwindling audience, but the enterprise use may be the reason behind a refresh. Some uses could be:

    * wireless POS terminal (DCGOO mentioned this above)

    * corporate device for wifi calling only

    * corporate device for using proprietary apps and databases (such as using the new IBM-designed apps)

    * only accessed by TouchID

  • Reply 47 of 91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    but how much profit does Apple really get from iPod sales?  Very little.  They are better off focusing on their core products at this point.

     

    The best iPods are 2 year old iPhones.


    Keeps the low end form factors in place.

     

    Shuffles and mini/nanos are a key part of the ecosystem.   just like airport Extremes and Apple TVs.   It expands the halo of the iOS ecosystem.   

     

    The iPod Touch is the question mark, but is a low cost adjunct to the iPhone 5s/6.  (same parts minus the cellular).  

     

    I would guess there would be a new Mini/shuffle (aligning with Watch componentry) coming soon, and the Touch being retired or refreshed 'one last time' [to the current iphone 6 form factor].

  • Reply 48 of 91
    linkmanlinkman Posts: 909member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DCGOO View Post

     



    It is also probably a not insignificant Enterprise device.  How many restaurants and other retailers are scrambling for wireless POS terminals?   What is the typical device today?  an iPod Touch.  Add Apple Pay and EMV credit cards to the mix, and you've got another market to dominate.


    Correct. My company uses them as a small form factor tablet (the iPad mini is too big) where pocketability is needed and the main app is useful with a small screen. The ease of building and maintaining apps on iOS beats the tar out of almost anything else. We also use them as a digital signage device -- get a TV, a combo HDMI/USB cable that supplies output to the TV and charges using the TV's USB port, and a locking device and you've got a digital sign setup for < $600 where the usual is well north of $1000. Loads content using Wifi so we don't have to add a network cable drop.

     

    Apple stores use them for their mobile POS. iPhone is overkill for many of these uses.

  • Reply 49 of 91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by formosa View Post

     

    The consumer use of the iPod Touch may have a dwindling audience, but the enterprise use may be the reason behind a refresh. Some uses could be:

    * wireless POS terminal (DCGOO mentioned this above)

    * corporate device for wifi calling only

    * corporate device for using proprietary apps and databases (such as using the new IBM-designed apps)

    * only accessed by TouchID


    these are good points.

     

    However....

     

    For all of the above... the iPad Mini Retina  (The ipad touch is a 'Mini Mini') is the key comparision here, not the iPhone.

    And the pricing after this year for the current retina and a high end Touch will be darned close.

  • Reply 50 of 91
    I can see a minor spec bump to maybe the A7 with more or less the same case design being the minimal, low fanfare update. It still has value as a low price point for entry into the iOS ecosystem.

    If Apple wanted to (or thought they should) re-jump start iPod sales, they would reposition it in the marketplace as a game device or give it major new capabilities, and Jony Ive would design something purposefully suited to that new mission.

    But for me, the iPhone, and soon the Watch, will have replaced my need for a dedicated music player.
  • Reply 51 of 91
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Apple will only get about $1 billion in revenue this year on iPod. 


     

    Would you have a link for that?

  • Reply 52 of 91
    I'm pleased Apple have the iPod as I have never owned a mobile phone and my 5th gen iPod touch is very useful indeed and holds all my music, keeping it off my iPad.

    The touch will either be dropped completely or will be upgraded to 64-bit because the current iPod is unlikely to be able to run iOS9. An updated iPod touch with GPS would be really nice and make it a lot more useful still, but Apple may feel that's getting too close to the iPhone or mini 3G.
  • Reply 53 of 91
    65c81665c816 Posts: 133member
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by davygee View Post

     

    What about including an A7 chip, Touch ID, NFC, better cameras and larger screen (same as iPhone 6).  Keep the price under $200 and up the basic storage to 32Gb....could be onto a winner there.


     

    You are kidding me right?  The iPhone 5S, WITHOUT NFC cost $549 with 16GB.  So, you are saying remove the phone bit (which is about $10 or $20 from the BOM), and sell it for $200?

     

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

  • Reply 54 of 91
    The 4S was released in 2011, not 2012.
  • Reply 55 of 91
    cincyteecincytee Posts: 264member
    [QUOTE]I think they should have separate WiFi and cellular models like the iPad.[/QUOTE]

    Umm, there kind of are already cellular-enabled iPod touches. We call them iPhones.
  • Reply 56 of 91
    oneof52oneof52 Posts: 110member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gluben View Post

     

    Personally, I'd rather they just killed off the iPod range completely. I know they won't, since it's a big market, but to me it's a dwindling market that isn't that interesting any more. Everyone I know, old and young, has a phone which has enough storage for music. Nobody has a music player.




    If they leave that market, someone else will come in to fill it.  Its a good preemptive move to stay there and fill that space.

  • Reply 57 of 91
    oneof52oneof52 Posts: 110member



    I keep an iPod Touch in my car at all times to play music thru it.  I use the touch to access the music.  The factory radio is just a dumb terminal for me.  Just update the music periodically.  I don't want my phone attached to the radio.  I think there is still a market for it.  If Apple leaves the market, that will give space for someone to come in and claim it, and take off from there.  That is exactly what Apple did.  Apple needs to keep that space closed off as a preemptory strike.

  • Reply 58 of 91
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,976member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    because the Nano/Shuffle don't make any money.

     

    Apple is not in the business of losing money.

     

    Instead of the Nano/Shuffle you should use the Watch.

     

    The iPod will die in a year or two once the Watch has 16GB of storage and GPS


    Oh sure...show me BOM cost and talk. Same fking profit margin as iPhone. What's "losing money" comment about? Please.

    Oh...using $350 Apple Watch + $100 Bluetooth headphone for the music while exercising instead of $49 iPod Shuffle or $149 iPod Nano with included wired headset? You got to be kidding me. 

    I agree with you on most things, but sometimes you're over your head with Apple Watch. Did iPod Touch die? iPhone can do everything iPod Touch does and more...just like Apple Watch can do everything that Nano and Shuffle do and more, but it doesn't mean it will kill the product. Why? because not everyone wants to get Apple watch. In fact, less than 10% of iPhone owners buy Apple Watch.

  • Reply 59 of 91
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,976member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    last years iPod revenue was $2 billion.  This year will probably be less than $1 Billion.  It is no secret that iPods have very low gross margins, probably about 25%.

     

    So after you take out admin expenses the iPod business is probably making only $100 million in profit a year.  That is very little for how much effort it takes to redesign a new iPod, set up new production lines, write software for it, ect.


    Pure guess? BOM for $149 Nano is around $43 which is less than 30% of the device price while iPhone 6 and 6+ is around 32%-34%. That means profit margin of iPod is even better than iPhone. Numbers don't lie.

  • Reply 60 of 91
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,976member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post

     



    Your original creative accounting is now a fact? And now you're predicting $0 future profit by using your earlier "calculations" as evidence? Nice one, that's one way to "prove" your position.<ha!!>

     

    Sorry, but I don't buy your figures as anything but boohockey. They don't do anything to these products, not even upgrade them to latest technology and they still sell $1B/year, that's a revenue stream you let sit and contribute minimal effort to keep going, if you can do a bit more effort and increase it significantly, you do that (if you have the resources), but you don't kill it, and that's possibly where Apple is at, assuming this report is accurate.

     

    Personally, I hope they don't kill it, I have a Shuffle that I use for the gym, my iP6+ is nothing I'd ever be so stupid to take into the gym, or go running with, it's too big, but the Shuffle is perfect, and I know others are of a similar mind. These products do have use cases and they do sell, they just don't receive the love from Apple because, well, they'd rather sell you an $800 phone (requiring a SIM) than one of these cheaper devices (as would the telcos).


    Completely agree. For gym purpose, Shuffle and Nano are blowing iPhone out of the water. BTW, profit margin on iPod is even higher than iPhone since the BOM costs less than 30% while iPhone is 

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    In 2012 iPod made $7 billion in revenue

    In 2013 it was $4 billion

    In 2014 it was $2 billion

    This year will probably be $1 billion

    Next year probably $500 million



    Apples profit margin is about 25%.

    No doubt the iPod is much lower - probably 10-15%



    That means next year Apple will make about $50 million in profit.



    It is just not worth Apples time and money to invest in a device that the Watch will soon replace.



    Some of you need to realize Apple is not a non-profit organization and they are thinking ten years from now. Who the hell would want an ipod 5 years from now? Apple is better served using there resources on a growing market instead of the dying mp3 market.

    Dude...get your fact straight...Apple profit margin is 25% overall but it doesn't mean iPod profit margin is low. Compare side by side, cost of BOM for iPod lower than iPhone and you think Apple should focus on the higher cost to build product? Please. Money is money. 1 more billion won't hurt.

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