EU scrutiny of Irish tax deals could have 'material' impact on Apple, company says

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  • Reply 21 of 52
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by foregoneconclusion View Post

     

     

    They already don't keep the money in Europe. It's sitting in banks in NYC. 




    Since Apple holds about 89% of it's cash overseas ($158 B) - I presume NYC is not in the US?

  • Reply 22 of 52
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member

    Looking forward to all of the world's largest corporations jointly buying out some independent island nation to form their own government so they can avoid the long fingers of these tax-hungry blackmailing countries.

  • Reply 23 of 52
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,516member
    cnocbui wrote: »

    Since Apple holds about 89% of it's cash overseas ($158 B) - I presume NYC is not in the US?
    When Apple says it's "held" overseas it doesn't mean what you think it does. Most of the money is in fact in US banks according to testimony, but in accounts owned by overseas entities like Apple Operations International.
  • Reply 24 of 52
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    When Apple says it's "held" overseas it doesn't mean what you think it does. Most of the money is in fact in US banks according to testimony, but in accounts owned by overseas entities like Apple Operations International.



    The term 'overseas' is terminoligcally incorrect then as there are no large bodies of water involved.  The contrived cuteness of it all is simply astonishing.

  • Reply 25 of 52
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     

    Looking forward to all of the world's largest corporations jointly buying out some independent island nation to form their own government so they can avoid the long fingers of these tax-hungry blackmailing countries.




    As far as I am aware, the US government taxes US citizens resident in foreign countries on their earnings outside the US, even when they pay local taxes, a practice some consider so egregious that they renounce their US citizenship.  It would take but a few strokes of a pen to treat US corporations similarly.

     

    There would be no escape.  I think the clouds are gathering for large corporations internationally and there will at some point be agreements that do away with the absolute rorts that are currently going on.

  • Reply 26 of 52
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     



    As far as I am aware, the US government taxes US citizens resident in foreign countries on their earnings outside the US, even when they pay local taxes, a practice some consider so egregious that they renounce their US citizenship.  It would take but a few strokes of a pen to treat US corporations similarly.

     

    There would be no escape.  I think the clouds are gathering for large corporations internationally and there will at some point be agreements that do away with the absolute rorts that are currently going on.




    It would theoretically be a matter of transferring all assets to a foreign entity independent of Apple in the US in a wholly business-owned country run by and for the benefit of the companies.

     

    Short of establishing these corporations in space, on the moon or on Mars, I don't know how else companies will be able to avoid such extortion.

  • Reply 27 of 52
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,410member
    rogifan wrote: »
    So perhaps this is why the stock is down again today?
    No. Most stocks are down because of the poor US GDP report.
  • Reply 28 of 52
    narcomanarcoma Posts: 37member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     



    As far as I am aware, the US government taxes US citizens resident in foreign countries on their earnings outside the US, even when they pay local taxes, a practice some consider so egregious that they renounce their US citizenship.  It would take but a few strokes of a pen to treat US corporations similarly.

     

    There would be no escape.  I think the clouds are gathering for large corporations internationally and there will at some point be agreements that do away with the absolute rorts that are currently going on.




    well, renouncing US citizenship creates it own tax hell!

  • Reply 29 of 52
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post





    No. Most stocks are down because of the poor US GDP report.



    This is also why I find the idea of an independent nation consisting wholly of corporations so appealing.

     

    Here's a possible location ???? :  http://liberland.org

  • Reply 30 of 52
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eldernorm View Post



    This is just bull crap from european countries that want all the money and none of the responsibility. If this was illegal, then we should tax Ireland out of existence.... and give all the money to europe, along with the other two countries..



    Or better yet. Put much of the money into loaning it to hard pressed countries in europe. Then if the axe falls, just demand all loaned money back... now... And require collateral such as the Eiffel tower, Number 10 downing street, the vatican, etc.



    Funny enough, I believe each country gets its value added tax up front. This is just money for leaving your profit in my bank money.

     

    Exactly.  Apple was following Ireland Tax Laws.  Laws used to get company's like Apple to do business in their country.    If the EU thinks this is somehow unfair and should get back taxes, well I say that's on Ireland to pay them!!  After all it's was THEIR LAWS Apple was following.  Apple paid out what was required under their law.    Trying to get back taxes now is a load of crap.

  • Reply 31 of 52
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,516member
    jbdragon wrote: »
    Exactly.  Apple was following Ireland Tax Laws.  Laws used to get company's like Apple to do business in their country.    If the EU thinks this is somehow unfair and should get back taxes, well I say that's on Ireland to pay them!!  After all it's was THEIR LAWS Apple was following.  Apple paid out what was required under their law.    Trying to get back taxes now is a load of crap.
    The law says the rate is 12.5% IIRC. The deal they made with Apple was a special exception bureaucrats made outside the public eye and at a rate not available to other taxpayers.
  • Reply 32 of 52
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

     



    As far as I am aware, the US government taxes US citizens resident in foreign countries on their earnings outside the US, even when they pay local taxes, a practice some consider so egregious that they renounce their US citizenship.  It would take but a few strokes of a pen to treat US corporations similarly.

     

    There would be no escape.  I think the clouds are gathering for large corporations internationally and there will at some point be agreements that do away with the absolute rorts that are currently going on.


     

    The EU wants to Tax the crap out of Apple.  Then the U.S. Bitches because Apple doesn't want to bring the money here where the U.S. can then Tax the crap out of it,even though there's no U.S. sales. It's Double taxation.   How can you even make a profit, it's all taken in taxes!!!  As they say, Corporations don't pay taxes!!  They do, but they don't.  You as a buyer of their product pay the taxes in a higher priced product!!!  So in effect, you're just taxing yourself more money!! It's the backdoor taxes people don't think about.   The EU doesn't go after Apple for profits they made in the U.S., this is a dumb gready U.S. thing.

  • Reply 33 of 52
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,516member
    jbdragon wrote: »
    The EU wants to Tax the crap out of Apple.  Then the U.S. Bitches because Apple doesn't want to bring the money here where the U.S. can then Tax the crap out of it,even though there's no U.S. sales. It's Double taxation.   How can you even make a profit, it's all taken in taxes!!!  As they say, Corporations don't pay taxes!!  They do, but they don't.  You as a buyer of their product pay the taxes in a higher priced product!!!  So in effect, you're just taxing yourself more money!! It's the backdoor taxes people don't think about.   The EU doesn't go after Apple for profits they made in the U.S., this is a dumb gready U.S. thing.
    If Apple were to pay the taxes it shouldn't result in higher priced products. Apple already made allowances to pay the taxes and they state the amount in their financials. They just never got around to actually paying them yet.

    In addition if they pay the taxes there it just get lopped off the top of what they'll owe the US when they bring it on home. It's not double-taxed, collected by both the EU and the US.
  • Reply 34 of 52
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,595member
    bobjohnson wrote: »

    I'm not an expert or anything but I do know how to use Google, which leads to the $9 billion figure coming from a U.S. Senate report: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-20/apple-s-offshore-entities-avoid-taxes-senate-probe-finds

    Wow! And we all know that what comes out of the Senate is priceless. /s
  • Reply 35 of 52
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,793member
    Ponder the mindset that believes that not taxing a company is state aid. This mindset would seem to believe that all your money belong to them, and anything they leave you with is their gift to you.

    If the euro weenies think that the Irish have an unfair tax advantage, all they need to do is make sure all the other euro countries have the same tax rate as Ireland. Then the 'aid' disappears like magic!

    Tax eating thieves.
  • Reply 36 of 52
    croprcropr Posts: 1,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JBDragon View Post

     

     

    Exactly.  Apple was following Ireland Tax Laws.  Laws used to get company's like Apple to do business in their country.    If the EU thinks this is somehow unfair and should get back taxes, well I say that's on Ireland to pay them!!  After all it's was THEIR LAWS Apple was following.  Apple paid out what was required under their law.    Trying to get back taxes now is a load of crap.


    The European treaty forbids member states to make anti-competitive measures.  Ireland made a tax deal with Apple stating that Apple should pay around 1 % on its European profits, if Apple continued to investigate in Ireland.  The European Commission considers this as anti-competitive and will most probably force Ireland to kill this deal and make Apple to pay the normal tax tariff on its Eurpoean profits.

    As owner of a European company I am paying around 30% on the profits my company makes and I find it only fair that Apple should pay a similar amount on its European profits and not the 1 % Apple is paying now.

  • Reply 37 of 52
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    cropr wrote: »
    The European treaty forbids member states to make anti-competitive measures.  Ireland made a tax deal with Apple stating that Apple should pay around 1 % on its European profits, if Apple continued to investigate in Ireland.  The European Commission considers this as anti-competitive and will most probably force Ireland to kill this deal and make Apple to pay the normal tax tariff on its Eurpoean profits.
    As owner of a European company I am paying around 30% on the profits my company makes and I find it only fair that Apple should pay a similar amount on its European profits and not the 1 % Apple is paying now.

    I find it endlessly amusing that the EU still exists with all of their wildly anti-business laws in effect.
  • Reply 38 of 52
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,516member
    cropr wrote: »
    As owner of a European company I am paying around 30% on the profits my company makes and I find it only fair that (other companies) should pay a similar amount on its European profits and not the 1 % Apple is paying now.
    Well that certainly doesn't seem fair and shows their bias against the wealthy. How would the rich get richer as fast if they had to pay the same tax rates as us little guys? /s


    FWIW it's hardly going to impact Apple if they pay a few $B of the taxes they already admit to owing IMHO. So what if they're only left with $175B in 'Cash" instead of $$200B when it's all done with. By next year they'll have north of $250B at the rate they're going even paying their taxes. What the heck are they going to do with several hundred billion anyway, take over every industry and put everything of real value in tech and media under the Apple umbrella?

    (Wait. . . Umbrella Corporation?? )
  • Reply 39 of 52
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post





    I find it endlessly amusing that the EU still exists with all of their wildly anti-business laws in effect.

    If you look at the most successful US companies they are all run by people with European names: Cook, Ive, Ahrendts, Musk, Schmidt, Nadela (err... ok, not that one :)

     

    The point is Europeans are smart cookies and they also have a higher population that the US. I can't help but think they could overtake the US if only they had better (more pro-business) policies.

  • Reply 40 of 52
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    ascii wrote: »
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">If you look at the most successful US companies they are all run by people with European names: Cook, Ive, Ahrendts, Musk, Schmidt, Nadela (err... ok, not that one :)</span>


    The point is Europeans are smart cookies and they also have a higher population that the US. I can't help but think they could overtake the US if only they had better (more pro-business) policies.

    What in the world? "European names"?
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