Apple details new 'AppleBot' web crawler used by Siri and Spotlight

245

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 82
    BornSlippyBornSlippy Posts: 57member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    LOL nothing personal ... But why? "There's absolutely nothing wrong with Google. " is a pretty bold statement that's why. I collect these from AI. Years later they are fun to trot out. You know, the sort of thing I mean, like this iPhone related quote ... "It’s kind of one more entrant into an already very busy space with lots of choice for consumers ... But in terms of a sort of a sea-change for BlackBerry, I would think that’s overstating it."

     

    I guess I made my statement a bit too bold, but I just meant that there's no reason to avoid Google as they're really just a tech company doing their thing. They aren't as bad as some people like to think they are. 

     

    That iPhone quote was ridiculous and I remember back in that time I was chuckling because I knew that the iPhone would clobber the Blackberry. 

  • Reply 22 of 82
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,758member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    Most iOS users maybe, but that's really just a small niche compared to the full market out there. Also who's to say that most people wouldn't just switch back to Google? People care about the quality of the search results rather than who is providing it. If Apple does release a search it had better be better than the launch of Apple Maps which was one of the most botched launches ever. Apple isn't a services company but rather a hardware and software company. 

    I don't disagree with most of that, it better work well on release (assuming there is such a product of course). I'd disagree with the last part. Apple is going to be a lot of things you don't think it is now over the next few years. But search is intrinsic to so much these days even if under the hood, Apple cannot rely on Google obviously.
  • Reply 23 of 82
    thrangthrang Posts: 1,012member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    Most iOS users maybe, but that's really just a small niche compared to the full market out there. Also who's to say that most people wouldn't just switch back to Google? People care about the quality of the search results rather than who is providing it. If Apple does release a search it had better be better than the launch of Apple Maps which was one of the most botched launches ever. Apple isn't a services company but rather a hardware and software company. 

    It is a hardware, software, and services company, and services will increase in importance over the next decade. If you cannot see that, you don't know business 101.

    The differences is can you offer pay services that are valuable, and not just track you like big brother and sell the bread crumbs you've left behind...
  • Reply 24 of 82
    BornSlippyBornSlippy Posts: 57member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    I don't disagree with most of that, it better work well on release (assuming there is such a product of course). I'd disagree with the last part. Apple is going to be a lot of things you don't think it is now over the next few years. But search is intrinsic to so much these days even if under the hood, Apple cannot rely on Google obviously.

    I agree that Apple relying too much on another company isn't good for them, but they shouldn't discount other companies either. Especially when Google is so entrenched in people's every day life. 

     

    What I think will happen is that Apple will cut off reliance on Bing for Siri searches and use their own algorithms for it, but keep allowing Google or other in Safari, etc for search. I don't think Apple will launch any full fledged search engine. 

  • Reply 25 of 82
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,758member
    thrang wrote: »
    It is a hardware, software, and services company, and services will increase in importance over the next decade. If you cannot see that, you don't know business 101.

    The differences is can you offer pay services that are valuable, and not just track you like big brother and sell the bread crumbs you've left behind...

    My thoughts exactly. Apple can offer services to enhance their own sales as opposed to selling their clients to others.
  • Reply 26 of 82
    BornSlippyBornSlippy Posts: 57member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thrang View Post





    It is a hardware, software, and services company, and services will increase in importance over the next decade. If you cannot see that, you don't know business 101.



    The differences is can you offer pay services that are valuable, and not just track you like big brother and sell the bread crumbs you've left behind...

    No I agree that services are important, my point was just that so far Apple hasn't really shown any strength in their services. Apple Maps was a disaster (sure it's improving but it's still not all there), iCloud was useless at first and is slowly getting better but still lags behind others, etc. 

     

    Google doesn't sell any of your personal information. Your privacy is 100% respected, all they do is display ads which will match what advertisers are looking for but your personal info is never shared or sold to anyone. I'm perfectly fine with that. 

  • Reply 27 of 82
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,758member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    I agree that Apple relying too much on another company isn't good for them, but they shouldn't discount other companies either. Especially when Google is so entrenched in people's every day life. 

    What I think will happen is that Apple will cut off reliance on Bing for Siri searches and use their own algorithms for it, but keep allowing Google or other in Safari, etc for search. I don't think Apple will launch any full fledged search engine. 

    My guess about a fully fledged search option goes back to your earlier comment about 'it better work'. I would think Apple might use a gradual approach rather than the declarative approach they did with Maps. More like Apple TV if you will. Slowly but surely increase the use of ?Search as a back end and not try to compete head on over night as a user search. One day yes but I doubt over night.
  • Reply 28 of 82
    thrangthrang Posts: 1,012member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    I agree that Apple relying too much on another company isn't good for them, but they shouldn't discount other companies either. Especially when Google is so entrenched in people's every day life. 

    What I think will happen is that Apple will cut off reliance on Bing for Siri searches and use their own algorithms for it, but keep allowing Google or other in Safari, etc for search. I don't think Apple will launch any full fledged search engine. 

    I would never describe Google as entrenched in my life at all. I used google for search, but don't use gmail or google docs or Google drive as their are viable alternatives.
  • Reply 29 of 82
    BornSlippyBornSlippy Posts: 57member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thrang View Post





    I would never describe Google as entrenched in my life at all. I used google for search, but don't use gmail or google docs or Google drive as their are viable alternatives.

    Of course it's different for everyone, but I was mainly referring to Search and that's it.

     

    There are always alternatives and it's all personal preference. Yes I do use Gmail and pretty much all of Google's suite of services, mainly because they just work and fulfill everything I need simply. 

  • Reply 30 of 82
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,758member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    No I agree that services are important, my point was just that so far Apple hasn't really shown any strength in their services. Apple Maps was a disaster (sure it's improving but it's still not all there), iCloud was useless at first and is slowly getting better but still lags behind others, etc. 

    Google doesn't sell any of your personal information. Your privacy is 100% respected, all they do is display ads which will match what advertisers are looking for but your personal info is never shared or sold to anyone. I'm perfectly fine with that. 

    Not sure what cloud services you use but I find iCloud phenomenal. I use Carbon Copy Cloner running a scheduled daily back up to my iCloud Drive for all my sensitive date and it works flawlessly. Also the beta Numbers etc. seem to work pretty well. iTunes Match is fabulous ... I could go on. I tried many other services and they are as slow as dogs and do not integrate well. Being able to select iCloud Drive as a destination folder without any muss or fuss is awesome.
  • Reply 31 of 82
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    I agree with your opinion that Apple probably isn't creating a search system themselves. I could see the benefit of it but fail to see how Apple could make it work. None of the current search systems work IMO.

    I don't actually think it's companies like Google, MS & Yahoo are at fault here for there crap engines (though Google was created in order to generate $10B/y in ad revenue, with a page ranking system, which is totally stupid) but the data itself isn't exactly presented in a structured database design. I therefore don't think web search can ever be done 'right'.

    It's up to webmasters and the like to tag their images, make correct use of keywords, date-tag everything in order for a search system to work properly. I don't think we'll ever see that as it hardly takes any effort for people to put a website, cost-wise or technically fluent.
  • Reply 32 of 82
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    What baggage may that be? They display non intrusive ads. If they really bother you, you can use an ad blocker and the problem is solved. 
    Advertising generates huge amounts of waste. In the old days that amounted to tons of paper coming through your mailbox every day. These days advertisers burn up your bandwidth with fat ads that effectively waste your bandwidth.

    I don't know what the original poster was complaining about but the world of advertising get is a bit creepy.
    Microsoft has pumped billions of $ into search and even they can't find their footing in search, I highly doubt Apple will be able to either other than with a very niche market. Google makes an incredible product and that's why people use it.

    Apple won't take Google head on with search. Rather they will redefine it. Search will become an extension of Siri type technologies.

    As for Google they have their place in the world. The problem is they make every search attempt an opportunity to advertise. Sometimes you want that sort of info but other times you don't.
  • Reply 33 of 82
    thrangthrang Posts: 1,012member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    No I agree that services are important, my point was just that so far Apple hasn't really shown any strength in their services. Apple Maps was a disaster (sure it's improving but it's still not all there), iCloud was useless at first and is slowly getting better but still lags behind others, etc. 

    Google doesn't sell any of your personal information. Your privacy is 100% respected, all they do is display ads which will match what advertisers are looking for but your personal info is never shared or sold to anyone. I'm perfectly fine with that. 

    iCloud works extremely well, especially with cross device synchronization. I get the early press, but I've never had issues with Apple Maps, and certainly none over the past few years. Media and app store services are also very strong. So there are numerous examples of Apple showing capability in the services space with minimal invasion.

    I'm not ok with cookies being dropped like birdshit on my computer purely to match to an advertiser, and any code has the potential for exploitation.
  • Reply 34 of 82
    BornSlippyBornSlippy Posts: 57member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    Not sure what cloud services you use but I find iCloud phenomenal. I use Carbon Copy Cloner running a scheduled daily back up to my iCloud Drive for all my sensitive date and it works flawlessly. Also the beta Numbers etc. seem to work pretty well. iTunes Match is fabulous ... I could go on. I tried many other services and they are as slow as dogs and do not integrate well. Being able to select iCloud Drive as a destination folder without any muss or fuss is awesome.

    I found that the Numbers, Pages etc in iCloud run slow and are just too frustrating for me to use. 

  • Reply 35 of 82
    BornSlippyBornSlippy Posts: 57member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post



    I agree with your opinion that Apple probably isn't creating a search system themselves. I could see the benefit of it but fail to see how Apple could make it work. None of the current search systems work IMO.



    I don't actually think it's companies like Google, MS & Yahoo are at fault here for there crap engines (though Google was created in order to generate $10B/y in ad revenue, with a page ranking system, which is totally stupid) but the data itself isn't exactly presented in a structured database design. I therefore don't think web search can ever be done 'right'.



    It's up to webmasters and the like to tag their images, make correct use of keywords, date-tag everything in order for a search system to work properly. I don't think we'll ever see that as it hardly takes any effort for people to put a website, cost-wise or technically fluent.

    Google was created as a search engine. Ads came later because they needed to find a way to monetize. Google was not created in order to generate ad revenues.

  • Reply 36 of 82
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,758member
    philboogie wrote: »
    I agree with your opinion that Apple probably isn't creating a search system themselves. I could see the benefit of it but fail to see how Apple could make it work. None of the current search systems work IMO.

    I don't actually think it's companies like Google, MS & Yahoo are at fault here for there crap engines (though Google was created in order to generate $10B/y in ad revenue, with a page ranking system, which is totally stupid) but the data itself isn't exactly presented in a structured database design. I therefore don't think web search can ever be done 'right'.

    It's up to webmasters and the like to tag their images, make correct use of keywords, date-tag everything in order for a search system to work properly. I don't think we'll ever see that as it hardly takes any effort for people to put a website, cost-wise or technically fluent.

    Phi you might have just hit the nail on the head. Everyone expects search results to look like they do now from everyone. As you say maybe Apple will redefine yet another industry.
  • Reply 37 of 82
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,758member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    Google was created as a search engine. Ads came later because they needed to find a way to monetize. Google was not created in order to generate ad revenues.

    So you are saying Search was created by Google as an altruistic project for fun? Surely they has a business plan from the get-go as they did with YouTube etc.
  • Reply 38 of 82
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,758member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    I found that the Numbers, Pages etc in iCloud run slow and are just too frustrating for me to use. 

    Not me, but then I am using a new MacPro and a 75/50 FiOS connection most of the time so i could be being spoiled.
  • Reply 39 of 82
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slprescott View Post



    Sounds like the early days of Apple Maps: an in-house capability ramping up to reduce Apple's dependency on Google.



    Does Google have any legal control over the use of "Googlebot instructions"? I.e., is Apple allowed to have its own search technology use them, or does Google have any control over this? For example, do Googlebot instructions follow a particular syntax that Google may have protected as intellectual property?

     

    Google would be the most hypocritical company on earth.

     

    Google stole the interfaces (syntax) of Java for Android.  They were found not guilty - you cannot patent an interface.  

     

    Apple is reusing the interfaces of existing crawlers, but obviously has their own implementation.  

  • Reply 40 of 82
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,378member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MathieuLLF View Post

     

    I found that the Numbers, Pages etc in iCloud run slow and are just too frustrating for me to use. 


    Of course you would find Apple's services are too slow, and Apple's maps are a "disaster", all in comparison to your beloved Google.

     

    But Apple is building out its services very rapidly, and frankly, you seem nervous and defensive about this; why else would you be here?

     

    Whether it is camera lenses, and imaging, or speech or IoT, Apple is building out its ecosystem, and replacing third party services and hardware with its own technology, so it is much less dependent on the whims of others.

     

    Google should be very nervous when a company of Apple's size begins to spend its profits for the benefit of its customers, and even more so when Microsoft begins to open up.

Sign In or Register to comment.