Google I/O 2015 sets a low bar for Apple's WWDC to leap

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  • Reply 101 of 295
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,278member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    Actually thinness isn't what makes it usable. Apple didn't think that large phones were going to sell and when Apple saw sales stagnating a bit they realized that they needed one as well. Even Ive had negative things to say about large phones previously.

    PS you still can't wrap your hand around an iPhone 6+ no matter how thin it is.

    Never needed to wrap my hand around my iPhone 6 Plus before and have no desire to. It works exactly like I want it to and is exactly what I've waited for many years from Apple to make. Apple still did a piss poor job for the bezels. Note 4 with bigger screen bit smaller body. And I don't care that the iPhone is a couple, yes just a couple, of mm thinner. I'd rather it be a couple mm thicker to squeeze a little larger battery in it as my iPhone 6 Plus battery life is not all that great for how I use it. My Note 4 lasts a little longer under the same usage. For me.
  • Reply 102 of 295
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,301member
    Wow, how many times has this been discussed here and you still don't get it?

    Apple's version of a secure element is vastly different from everyone else. Apple uses a custom designed section of their A7/A8 processor as their secure element (Secure Enclave). Google uses a mix of SIM cards OR on-device secure element. The specifications for the SIM card secure element are well known (and documented) making the possibility of someone hacking it greater than Apple's Secure Enclave, which is 100% proprietary and only known to Apple. Further, with Android source code also being available, potential hackers have a significant head start when trying to determine how Android and Apps interact with the secure element.as well (in this regard, anyway). The rest of Samsung Pay is a bit of a joke, however.
    Wow... You mean hardware has gotten better in the 4 years since Google first used an embedded hardware-based secure element for tokanization?? Who'da thunk it? So Apple is using a new chipset to put it on, and not available to anyone at any price in 2010. Gosh, thanks for explaining why Apple's solution today is better than one 4-5 years older because hardware and processes have improved and thus must be totally different. Obfuscate much? :rolleyes:

    [@]NolaMacGuy[/@]
    "Google Wallet launched today (Sept 19, 2011) in a public trial, the new jargon for a beta test, about four months after its introduction. Using a small near-field communications (NFC) antenna mounted inside the rear of the phone, an embedded security token, and some accompanying software, Google Wallet allows users to simply tap (or touch) the phone to a payment terminal. Money is automatically debited from an attached credit card.
  • Reply 103 of 295
    mubailimubaili Posts: 445member
    I don't care if Google can innovate or not, or if they are focus or not if there is no unintended consequences. The evil of Google firing so many bullets all around is that it squashes many would-be startups, anything Google announces that they have set their eyes on no startups are willing to take them heads on and thus the innovation would be deterred.
  • Reply 104 of 295
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,301member
    mubaili wrote: »
    I don't care if Google can innovate or not, or if they are focus or not if there is no unintended consequences. The evil of Google firing so many bullets all around is that it squashes many would-be startups, anything Google announces that they have set their eyes on no startups are willing to take them heads on and thus the innovation would be deterred.
    You could substitute Apple or Microsoft for Google in your post as they all take advantage of opportunities they see. They commonly replace former 3rd party partners with their own in-house solitions, buyi some start-ups to acquire their tech and personnel while making other start-ups irrelevant in the marketplace by having the resources to quickly take advantage of new services, features and products.
  • Reply 105 of 295
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Wow... You mean hardware has gotten better in the 4 years since Google first used an embedded hardware-based secure element for tokanization?? Who'da thunk it? So Apple is using a new chipset to put it on, and not available to anyone at any price in 2010. Gosh, thanks for explaining why Apple's solution today is better than one 4-5 years older because hardware and processes have improved and thus must be totally different. Obfuscate much? image



    @NolaMacGuy

    "Google Wallet launched today (Sept 19, 2011) in a public trial, the new jargon for a beta test, about four months after its introduction. Using a small near-field communications (NFC) antenna mounted inside the rear of the phone, an embedded security token, and some accompanying software, Google Wallet allows users to simply tap (or touch) the phone to a payment terminal. Money is automatically debited from an attached credit card.

     

    This reminds me of when you used to always claim that Google Play Services keeps Android users up-to-date with security patches, when in fact it didn't (it couldn't update low-level components in the OS, such as the kernel). It does NOW, since Lollipop was introduced, but you made those comments long before Google Play Services had this ability (or anyone knew it was coming).

     

    I see you're still keeping the status quo. Make a generalized statement that isn't true (in this case, implying Wallet and Apple Pay use the same type of secure element and tokenization). Don't be upset when people call you on it. Perhaps you should be more concise in your posts in the first place? But that wouldn't serve your purpose very well, now would it? And you accuse me of obfuscating? How utterly ironic.

     

     

    Apple Pay is better because they use a different, and superior version of tokenization. Apple Pay is better because Apple doesn't mine your transaction history like Google does. Apple Pay is better because your confidential personal information is only known by you and your financial institution. With Google Wallet your information is known by you, your financial institution AND Google. Apple Pay is better because they have absolute control over their Secure Enclave and how it's accessed/used.

  • Reply 106 of 295
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,278member
    mubaili wrote: »
    I don't care if Google can innovate or not, or if they are focus or not if there is no unintended consequences. The evil of Google firing so many bullets all around is that it squashes many would-be startups, anything Google announces that they have set their eyes on no startups are willing to take them heads on and thus the innovation would be deterred.

    That is simply not true. If anything, they buy start ups that people make to be bought out. Waze, Picasa, YouTube, Timely (which is a brilliant app that lets me set an alarm from one device and it automatically syncs that to all my other devices) and many others. Apple does the exact same thing. So you might as well call Apple a evil start up killer as well.
  • Reply 107 of 295
    I'd have to agree that Apple has to be feeling pretty good after a relatively lackluster Google I/O keynote. But they also recently dodged another potential bullet in Spotify's recent announcement, which I thought was also not very impressive. Apple really has a chance to step ahead of a couple of its major competitors, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what they announce.
  • Reply 108 of 295
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,454member
    MathieuLLF wrote: »
    Actually thinness isn't what makes it usable. Apple didn't think that large phones were going to sell and when Apple saw sales stagnating a bit they realized that they needed one as well. Even Ive had negative things to say about large phones previously.

    PS you still can't wrap your hand around an iPhone 6+ no matter how thin it is.
    It always amazes me around here that some people won't aknowledge basic facts if they distort the ivory tower image of Apple they have. All the rhetoric that came out of Apple regarding "phablets" was negative, but more than just negative comments against their competition, they trumpeted the original 3.5" iPhone as the "perfect" size for functionality. The 4" iPhone was heralded as a design achievement that gave users a larger screen without compromising the perfect design parameters of the iPhone. The 6 was a radical departure from Apple's previous statements. But the iPhone is not nearly as blatant as the iPad mini, a comparable device from the competition Steve Jobs once commented about would require sandpaper to shave a users fingers down to be small enough to manipulate its tiny screen. Not only did Apple denigrate the competitions size offerings, they actively promoted that the iPad was the perfect size. There's nothing physical about the mini (like thickness) that can be argued is superior to any mini tablet offered by Android prior to Apple's entry into the field as being argued about the iPhone 6, but I'm sure someone's going to come up with one,

    The most interesting change in Apple rhetoric since Steve Jobs death, is that they tend to avoid making statements that might pin them into a corner. And that's ultimately better for Apple since it gives them an open pathway to develop a product without giving the competition any ammunition to ridicule them, not that it's ever been a serious problem for them. The ?Watch is a prime example as a departure from the Jobs era, in that Apple gave an explanation for the square shape of the first gen watch, but stopped short of saying they would never make a round watch. They may never make one, but at least they haven't walled themselves inside a statement they will have to revise after they decide to offer one.
  • Reply 109 of 295
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    It seems to me with Google photos and Maps (and in many cases, Gmail) Google is effectively carving out a good chunk of services on iOS that ensures they are still in competition. I would love for Apple to respond with something that would crush Google with their own improvements.

    Yes. I don't want Apple ceeding services to Google (and Microsoft). Don't give people any possible incentive to buy someone else's hardware. This is why I also think Apple should move away from big yearly OS updates and update their apps/services on a more regular basis.
  • Reply 110 of 295
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,301member
    This reminds me of when you used to always claim that Google Play Services keeps Android users up-to-date with security patches, when in fact it didn't (it couldn't update low-level components in the OS, such as the kernel). It does NOW, since Lollipop was introduced, but you made those comments long before Google Play Services had this ability (or anyone knew it was coming).
    Is it too much to ask that you not resort to dishonesty. I've never once said Play Services enabled ALL security patches. My assertion has always and consistently been the specific installed Android version is becoming less important with Play Services supplying many of the feature enhancements including some security related. It was just as silly and dishonest the last half dozen times you've attributed an over-reaching purposefully inaccurate statement to me as it is now.
    I see you're still keeping the status quo. Make a generalized statement that isn't true (in this case, implying Wallet and Apple Pay use the same type of secure element and tokenization). Don't be upset when people call you on it. Perhaps you should be more concise in your posts in the first place? But that wouldn't serve your purpose very well, now would it? And you accuse me of obfuscating? How utterly ironic.er their Secure Enclave and how it's accessed/used.
    I was quite clear in originally saying the same general hardware-based tokanization. Of course it could not be exactly the same as Apple's current tech and hardware did not exist 5 years ago. Is that really the extent of your disagreement, new tech mean's it could not be remotely related to the original, same general method?
    n. Apple Pay is better because Apple doesn't mine your transaction history like Google does.
    Google says they don't monetize/mine your mobile transaction data either. The extent of their logging is to supply you recent transaction information when you need it.
    Apple Pay is better because your confidential personal information is only known by you and your financial institution..
    FWIW Apple may know more about your financial history and standing that Google does. At the end of the day tho I agree with you that Apple Pay is better. Touch ID makes a big difference all by itself.
  • Reply 111 of 295
    applesauce007applesauce007 Posts: 1,677member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Not exactly. Google started down the mobile payments road in 2010 with NFC on the Nexus

    http://www.nfcworld.com/2010/12/07/35385/google-unveils-first-android-nfc-phone-but-nexus-s-is-limited-to-tag-reading-only-for-now/



    The following year, 2011, they rolled out the NFC-based Google Wallet and utilizing the same general hardware-based secure element within a chipset along with tokanization that Apple now uses for Apple Pay.

    http://www.nfcworld.com/2011/05/26/37720/google-wallet-day-one-for-nfc/

    http://www.nfc.cc/2011/12/30/galaxy-nexus-accessing-the-embedded-secure-element-and-insights-into-google-wallet/



    It really doesn't matter except for accuracy tho. Apple did what Google could not: Get everyone on the same page and push it thru. Touch ID was frosting on the cake. Now that the blockade is broken Google is carrying on with what they had originally envisioned several years ago. They can thank Apple for the assist.

    LOL. Well of course Android came after. There was no Android phone to put it on. As for Google Maps on mobile phones Google had offered them since 2005, plainly the reason Apple wanted Google's assist with the first iPhone mapping application. Again of no real importance, Apple did great, except apparently to some folks that always want their favored OS to always have been first as tho it gives them something more than bragging rights.

    https://www.mattcutts.com/blog/google-maps-on-your-phone/

     

    Here is the complete time line of Google's Payment efforts.  (Google Checkout, Google Waller, Android Pay etc...)

     

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/27/technology/paypal_google_lawsuit/index.htm?iid=EL

  • Reply 112 of 295
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,301member
    Here is the complete time line of Google's Payment efforts.  (Google Checkout, Google Waller, Android Pay etc...)

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/27/technology/paypal_google_lawsuit/index.htm?iid=EL
    Hardly a COMPLETE history since it stops a few years back. Whatever happened with that anyway? I can look it up if you don't know right off. Honest question BTW
  • Reply 113 of 295
    My reaction to the Google I/O keynote was similar - lots of Apple copying. Google remains an advertising company and is clearly struggling with consumers shifting to mobile apps. And OEMs are tiring of Google leaving them with commodity scraps. Its desktop search monopoly is starting to matter less and less. And Android fragmentation is getting worse, not better. Oh, yeah, and whatever happened to Chrome?

    What will Apple unveil? Hard to say, but this is really the time for iOS to pull away from the mess that Android has become. The Pro iPad is important - Micrsoft has actually grabbed some market share from Apple. Turns out people do like styluses and keyboards with their larger tablets after all,
  • Reply 114 of 295
    applesauce007applesauce007 Posts: 1,677member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Hardly a COMPLETE history since it stops a few years back. Whatever happened with that anyway? I can look it up if you don't know right off. Honest question BTW

     

    Yes but Google has not done squat for Google Wallet in the past few years.

    OK so they just bought ISIS / SoftCard and released Android Pay last week.

  • Reply 115 of 295
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,328member
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by clexman View Post

     

    You can't complain about Google stealing ideas from Apple, when Apple is one of the biggest, "Me Too," companies out there. Maps on phones, Google first Apple second. Mobile payments, Google first Apple second. Big phones, Google first Apple second. Photo editing software that syncs to the web, Google first Apple second.


     

    I always get stunned when I read drivel like this- you must be being purposefully decetiful, (ie. lying through your teeth), or you're just insanely ignorant. And trust me, claiming how big of an "Apple fan" you are and how "objective" you are doesn't change that. There's almost too much horse-shit to address, and too much thoughtlessness in your asinine list, but just briefly:

     

    Maps: Uh, Google wasn't the first to do maps either. There was yahoo, mapquest, etc. The Maps app on the first iPhone in 2007 was DESIGNED and DEVELOPED by Apple, in collaboration with Google, using their data. The first USEABLE maps on any mobile phone, EVER. But you obtusely list "maps on phones" as if it's something Google invented. Oh, and you can't fucking "copy" something like that- it's probably the last thing that can be "copied". Apple decided to develop their in-house solution for a myriad of reasons, not least of which was to have control of their platform and not having to give in to Google's advertising and privacy implications. It clearly was a risky endeavor, took fuckloads of work, and still being heavily developed to this day- it's not a concept that can be "copied", because it relies more on collecting an insane amount of data, not a particular idea or concept. But you ignore all the obvious points above, and throw this in the list, just because you're so "objective". Apple, as well as other companies, had much more to do with bringing maps to mobile than Google ever did. 

     

    Mobile Payments: Wow, even worse than the first. and a testament to your intellectual dishonesty. Google Wallet has been out for YEARS, and has gained almost zero traction. Apple Pay does not bear a single damn resemblence to that service- and within a few months of that being released, Google has already COMPLETELY REDEVELOPED their payment solution to be identical, changed the name (Android Pay- what a shock) and have started the work on implementing fingerprint recognition in the OS, a tentpole of Apple Pay. Apple Pay is the end result of so many hardware/software components that Apple has been working on for years, including developing a secure element, Touch ID, passbook, agreements with banks, credit card companies, and retailers, NFC, etc. Apple released something not just to release it, but as a result of a shitload of thought and consideration, and work on every single level, that bears no resemblance to Google's failed service. And, it is infinitely more widely adopted and used that Google Wallet ever was, which has now been scrapped by Google in favor of "Android Pay". And yes, you place in his Google's column, defined as "copying". Another testament to your shameless lack of integrity. 

     

    Big Phones: Uh, what? "Google First"? What the **** does that even mean? I remember HTC made big phones. Sony did. Samsung did. Dozens of OEMs did, in a desperate attempt to differentiate themselves from Apple's superior offerings in the only way they knew how. Why do you give credit to Google for having the first "big phone"? Android was spammed to everyone, and OEMs used it as they pleased. Apple could have "copied" big phones if thats the intention, back in 2010. But they didn't, they stuck to their game plan, ignored that, and released the iPhone 4, then the 4S, then the 5, then the 5S, while trolls like you were shrieking at them and mocking them for not releasing large phones. They did so when the product and the technology made sense, not as a kneejerk reaction to what anyone else was doing. If someone wants to "copy" something, they do it within a few months to a year, and you can literally find that is the case every single time Apple is copied, whether is continuity features, or Apple Pay (Samsung's versions announced within months). 

     

    Photo editing: Uh, there was absolutely nothing like iCloud photos and editing functionality that syncs and updates all local copies on all devices, but nice try using "picasa" as an equivalent. A nice try, and a massive lie. This is from someone who has sed picasa since it was first released and loved it, but finds your comparison laughable. 

     

    My post was not for you, but to educate others who may not be aware of how egregiously you attempted to rewrite history in a desperate attempt to drive an agenda. Liars like you couldn't care less about actual facts and honesty. Anyone can shit out a list like you did, in such a lazy and meaningless way. 

  • Reply 116 of 295
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,301member
    Yes but Google has not done squat for Google Wallet in the past few years.
    OK so they just bought ISIS / SoftCard and released Android Pay last week.
    You forgot to mention what you found out about the eBay claims and lawsuit against Google you wrote about. Were eBays' accusations true, not true, "kinda true and kinda not"... ?? If you're going to start the story you should at least finish it.
  • Reply 117 of 295
    alandailalandail Posts: 696member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AmitDas View Post



    Low bar?

    Google Self-driving car development is progressing rapidly... isn't Apple all of a sudden in the race also

    User-interface via fibers woven in clothes: Project Jacquard

    User-interface via gestures drawn in the air : Project Soli

    Internet "hotspots" via high altitude balloons: Project Loon

    Modular phone components: Project Ara

    INTER-OPERABLE IoT platform... let me repeat INTER-OPERABLE: Project Brillo

    Virtual reality camera rig and video standard: Project Jump

    Offline Google Maps with directions!

    Multi-window support on Android M



    Google has already moved well beyond Android to other areas.



    Not really covered at I/O:

    Google Shopping Express - same-day delivery from brick-and-mortar stores

    Google Fi - cross carrier wireless service to connect IoT devices?

    Chromecast 2 - gaming, 4k

    ChromeOS on a hdmi-stick

    Chromebook school program

    Google Fiber - gigabit to the home, 12 cities by EOY

     

    One difference between Google and Apple is Apple doesn't tell you what they are working on until the have a product.  The fact that you hear about things from Google first doesn't mean Apple wasn't already working it too.

     

    Another difference is Google will release alpha quality stuff they have to then scrap or that isn't fully thought out.  For example, how many different set top boxes have they done, I've lost track (their first one was a mess while Chromecast is better)?  How many android phones and tablets are stuck on older versions of OS for reasons other than the hardware wasn't powerful enough to upgrade?

     

    I do like some of the things google does.  Calico, Google Fiber, Project Loon, etc.  I'm a big fan of the potential of self driving cars too, but wouldn't assume Google is the only company working on it.

  • Reply 118 of 295
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheWhiteFalcon View Post

     

     

    Google Photos allows Google to use your photos for advertising. Read the TOS.

     

     

    This is a piece of garbage service from a terrible company. Consider yourselves informed.




    Thank you for the TOS! I have shaken my head in dismay quite a bit Thursday and Friday as many people made instant decisions that they would switch to Google's new free photo service because it was such a good deal. Not one of them seemed to pay any attention to Google gaining irrevocable or nearly irrevocable access to their photos forever as long as they got unlimited storage.

     

    On another funny note, At the bottom of the comment box, I just noticed an ad informing me I can get a free Samsung Galaxy S 5 from AT&T. Oh well. AT&T must get rid of the year old device somehow.

  • Reply 119 of 295
    satchmosatchmo Posts: 2,699member

    I didn't watch the I/O keynote. But I heard a podcast where they said many of the announcements were noticeably available for iOS.

     

    They suggested it was a sign of thawing in the relationship between Google and Apple. Possibly, or it may just be Google hedging their bets on iOS for the future.

     

    It does raise a bigger question of whether the two can ever co-exist on friendly terms again. If Apple can still work with Samsung, and sign enterprise deals with IBM, I suppose anything is possible. 

  • Reply 120 of 295
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    matrix07 wrote: »
    Well.. if it make you sleep better at night... Believes whatever you want to believe.

    Many companies say the same thing.... it's pretty standard language.

    Here's Apple's shocking similar paragraph for iCloud:

    1. License from You. Except for material we may license to you, Apple does not claim ownership of the materials and/or Content you submit or make available on the Service. However, by submitting or posting such Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public or other users with whom you consent to share such Content, you grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Service solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available, without any compensation or obligation to you. You agree that any Content submitted or posted by you shall be your sole responsibility, shall not infringe or violate the rights of any other party or violate any laws, contribute to or encourage infringing or otherwise unlawful conduct, or otherwise be obscene, objectionable, or in poor taste. By submitting or posting such Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public or other users, you are representing that you are the owner of such material and/or have all necessary rights, licenses, and authorization to distribute it.

    Sounds the same, huh.

    I could post the EULAs for other sites like Facebook or Flickr... but you get the idea.

    matrix07 wrote: »
    Once it's uploaded, it's theirs.

    Didn't Facebook do the same thing? Even if you delete a photo... it still lives on their servers forever?

    What ever happened to that?

    And Apple has done just that with billboard ads showcasing user photos taken with an iPhone.
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