I had the opportunity to test the new Windows XP Tablet PCs recently, and was impressed with the form factor, however sadly disappointed with the software and applications as a whole.
When I experienced the form factor - a hybrid of a slimline notebook computer, with a keyboard and pressure sensitive screen, I knew that Apple better get its act together and join the revolution of tablet-based computing which is sure to come. I hope that the rumours are true, and that a X-based tablet pc (hybrid of the G4 titanium) reaches the market before september- the launch of XP tablet pcs.
if we do get a pda from apple, i dont think we have to worry about it being the size of newton. but itll probubly pack twice the punch of any product out there at the same size. except in the area of storage, thats what ipod will be for. a lot of people have the wrong idea of how this kind of technology could be implemented. your "ipad" pda wouldnt actually have any mp3's on it, but you could access and control the playlist from your ipod using bluetooth protocall. ipad would just be a go between, a portal to other devices that are on your personal network. ipod could one day be just a little pocket-drive that wirelessly integrated with other products. a 3G phone device could eventually be integrated into the personal network, it wouldnt have to be very big, the size of a lighter, with no buttons on it. add in a hands-free headset / ear buds for music, that again was wirless. all of this is interfaced through the ipad's gui, this keeps the ipad as small as possible while allowing an unlimited level of functionality to be provided. with all those functions being out-sourced, ipad can have better hardware in less space than some allinwonder that dosnt do the job as well. itll be colour, have a couple of nice pocessors, lots of ram and just enough hard drive space not to make it useless without the bluetooth enabled ipod that the market isnt ready for. most of the technology is available, and everyone is used to carrying around a lot of crap already, this would make carring that crap a little easier. you can try and argue that one device doing the whole sheeebang would be nicer, but i believe it would one job passibly and totally screw everything else up. also you could easily have your ibook integrated into said personal network from your backpack, giving you airport network access where ever you go.
[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: Da sinister ]</p>
<strong>I had the opportunity to test the new Windows XP Tablet PCs recently, and was impressed with the form factor, however sadly disappointed with the software and applications as a whole.
When I experienced the form factor - a hybrid of a slimline notebook computer, with a keyboard and pressure sensitive screen, I knew that Apple better get its act together and join the revolution of tablet-based computing which is sure to come. I hope that the rumours are true, and that a X-based tablet pc (hybrid of the G4 titanium) reaches the market before september- the launch of XP tablet pcs.
I'd buy the first one of the production line...</strong><hr></blockquote>
i agree. i've played with probably the same prototype. it's pretty cool i have to admit. i questioned the viability of a tablet pc, but experiencing one, even for a little while, is quite interesting.
i also want to be added to the list of users who want a PDA type device from apple.....
i have been thinking of a PDA device now for a while but i keep delaying it hoping apple will have their own solution. the new article about apple "shopping around" give me more hope than ever before but two things keep ringing the the back of my head- steve saying time and time again they do not want to do a handheld and secondly their relationship with Palm does seem to be pretty close. do they risk it falling apart by developing their own device? the other reason i delay is to see what Palm 5 will bring to the market....
Excellent points. PDAs are starting to change into mobiles/mobiles into PDAs. Handspring sees it, Palm (so far) doesn't, or rather, couldn't wedge themselves in with Nokia et al. Symbion is a nice OS, too, as is Pixo's offerings. I think it is most important for Apple to make sure OS X 'plays nice' with all these gadgets, not produce the gadget. If they don't play nice with OS X (like MP3 players), then Apple may step in.
Of course, if Apple did make a PDA/Pad/mobile phone, I would be first in line to buy it :cool:
mabey apple will field its own pda because it dosnt want to deal with Be, i mean palm. if apple was concerned about its relationship with palm going sour under the new management, it would make sense to market their own device. mabey im reading into it to much, but its as likely an excuse for apple management as any.
mabey apple will field its own pda because it dosnt want to deal with Be, i mean palm. if apple was concerned about its relationship with palm going sour under the new management, it would make sense to market their own device. mabey im reading into it to much, but its as likely an excuse for apple management as any.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Funny you shoud say that, I was thinking the exact opposite. Be seems like an ideal partner for Apple now, as X would benefit from parts of BeOS, and Be/Palm would benefit from Apple design (be honest, Palms are not exciting devices).
I doubt it will happen, but it doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.
i honestly think Be was a great os, to bad it was backed by lousey marketing. i follow the openBe movement closely, i dont have any links for it but you shouldnt have trouble tracking them down. is Be good for palm, yes, is it going to be good for apple, well see. it all really depends on how the whigs at apple interperate this kind of development. besides, my previous statement about palm and Be was just to kick start the debate. in the end, well see in a few weeks.
PDAs and mobile phones will not converge. They are totally different devices.
PocketPCs only suceeded through compaq/hp dealing with their business clients, with deals better for the clients than them, to force PocketPCs (crap platform) through.
Treos, communicators etc. IMHO will only suceed if this happends to.
Does anyone here want a mobile phone 4 times the size of your current one, so it can fit the screen and ARM CPUs into it? Does anyone here want a PDA with a screen the size of their mobile, and a mobile phone keypad?
A PDA organises. A mobile communicates. It makes far more sense to have both bluetooth enabled, then you can leave your mobile in your pocket, connected to the 'net while you type e-mails on your PDA.
Connection between devices? Yes. Convergence? No. A combination phone/camera/pda/whatever is pretty stupid, considering the divergent nature of their functions.
Connection between devices? Yes. Convergence? No. A combination phone/camera/pda/whatever is pretty stupid, considering the divergent nature of their functions.-barto
like i said, allinwonder = allinblunder. one thing wont do it all, but different devices can work together real well to accomplish more. think "personal area network" next time you buy some new kit.
PDAs and mobile phones will not converge. They are totally different devices.
Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, they are two different devices. BUT, the what they have in common is this: To get maximum use out of them, they need to be carried at all times. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't like having to carry around extra items. I hate carrying both a billfold and a set of keys and my HP calculator... now a cell phone and a PDA.
Also, the logic behind size doesn't hold. The poster suggests no one wants a PDA the size of their cell phone, and nobody wants a cell phone the size of a PDA. Well, since a PDA is the larger of the two devices, why not add cell phone capability to it? If you are having to carry around a PDA anyway, why desire to also carry a cell phone?
My wife has the cheap Koyocea (sp?) PDA/Cell phone. She love it. It's larger than her old cell phone, but the solution takes up much less phone (and hassle) than her carrying both a cell phone and a PDA. Even if they were linked via Bluetooth.
and what if your cell phone was a little blob the size of a zippo lighter, that wirelessly networked with your PDA and your hands-free head-set. the phone wouldnt have any buttons or interface of any kind. your PDA's software would tell the phone who to call, but it wouldnt be the phone. keep the phone seperate, that way when the phone breaks or you switch providers you dont have to get a new PDA device because yours isnt compliant. its not a bad idea, and its not mine by the way. if you really want one device to do it all, then youll have to settle for it not doing some of those jobs very well.
Face it Apple wouldn't know how to market the PDA and would end up with another Newton on their hands.
My best idea would be to modify the iPod so that it worked as a PDA as well as played MP3 files, acted like a hard drive, etc. I think someone may have done this already as a hack.
Apple's best bet is to work with Palm and get OSX and MacOS 9 working with everything Palm. Why compete against an already almost perfect product like PalmOS? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>Face it Apple wouldn't know how to market the PDA and would end up with another Newton on their hands.
My best idea would be to modify the iPod so that it worked as a PDA as well as played MP3 files, acted like a hard drive, etc. I think someone may have done this already as a hack.
Apple's best bet is to work with Palm and get OSX and MacOS 9 working with everything Palm. Why compete against an already almost perfect product like PalmOS? </strong><hr></blockquote>
PalmOS is hardly a perfect product. It's still one of those 'cool, you've got a palm' kinda things, however when it comes down to functionality they are difficult to work with, and are not good for anything besides contacts.
offers organising functions comparable to the palm/clie/etc but it also has a real capability of sending and receiving emails/ web information/pictures at a speed not far from conventional modems due to the high speed networks in the UK and other parts of Europe. These services are costly, but they exist.
As to the addition of a camera to these devices, I don't think the phenomenon of phone messaging is appreciated enough.
Whatever your general inclination, the unfortuante truth is that such devices exist, (due in part to MS hegemony and phone companies seeking a larger market share) and are proliferating. In restoring the Newton, you would have to consider not only the PDA technology, but the phone hybrids that are developing rapidly to be your digital hub away from your larger desktop/laptop.
Steve, "We are not going to release a PDA" plus "We've been working very closely with these guys (Palm)" equals ...
"Palm is releasing an Apple enhanced PDA."
This makes the most sense for Apple. They send a couple of software/hardware reps to Palm as consultants. Apple has the benefits of not having to put up the cash for the manufacturing, marketing and inventory. Palm gets to release the coolest, full-featured, Clie-killer PDA and also instantly gets the Mac PDA user market.
<strong>Steve, "We are not going to release a PDA" plus "We've been working very closely with these guys (Palm)" equals ...
"Palm is releasing an Apple enhanced PDA."
This makes the most sense for Apple. They send a couple of software/hardware reps to Palm as consultants. Apple has the benefits of not having to put up the cash for the manufacturing, marketing and inventory. Palm gets to release the coolest, full-featured, Clie-killer PDA and also instantly gets the Mac PDA user market.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I tend to think too much is made of things Steve says. He's not a god, he's an intelligent bloke who owns Apple and knows what Apple should do.
I'd be willing to bet that quote was forced out of him by some journalist. At the time (and by that I mean that second) it was 100% true. But equally he would probably have said "We are not going to release a MP3 player/rackmount/LCD iMac" too. In his position he can't afford to say "We are going to release XYZ" in case they don't.
As for a MWNY release of an iPDA, I doubt it, but Ink isn't in Jaguar as a toy. My bet is either on a Tablet Mac or OQO style device. I even suspect OQO is a decoy, but we'll need to wait and see.
Comments
When I experienced the form factor - a hybrid of a slimline notebook computer, with a keyboard and pressure sensitive screen, I knew that Apple better get its act together and join the revolution of tablet-based computing which is sure to come. I hope that the rumours are true, and that a X-based tablet pc (hybrid of the G4 titanium) reaches the market before september- the launch of XP tablet pcs.
I'd buy the first one of the production line...
[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: Da sinister ]</p>
<strong>I had the opportunity to test the new Windows XP Tablet PCs recently, and was impressed with the form factor, however sadly disappointed with the software and applications as a whole.
When I experienced the form factor - a hybrid of a slimline notebook computer, with a keyboard and pressure sensitive screen, I knew that Apple better get its act together and join the revolution of tablet-based computing which is sure to come. I hope that the rumours are true, and that a X-based tablet pc (hybrid of the G4 titanium) reaches the market before september- the launch of XP tablet pcs.
I'd buy the first one of the production line...</strong><hr></blockquote>
i agree. i've played with probably the same prototype. it's pretty cool i have to admit. i questioned the viability of a tablet pc, but experiencing one, even for a little while, is quite interesting.
i have been thinking of a PDA device now for a while but i keep delaying it hoping apple will have their own solution. the new article about apple "shopping around" give me more hope than ever before but two things keep ringing the the back of my head- steve saying time and time again they do not want to do a handheld and secondly their relationship with Palm does seem to be pretty close. do they risk it falling apart by developing their own device? the other reason i delay is to see what Palm 5 will bring to the market....
what i really wish we would get would be an apple branded smart phone solution but that idea would bring up a whole other set of issues- the biggest of all being what technology CDMA (sprint pcs, verizon, etc) or GSM/GPRS (cingular, voice stream, at&t, etc). a lot of these devices so far leave a lot to be desired (however this new one makes me think twice: <a href="http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/showroom/showcase/coming_soon_7135.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/showroom/showcase/coming_soon_7135.htm</a>; )
I'm not sure where a newton would fit in this area where convergence seems to be king.
[ 06-25-2002: Message edited by: gramsci ]</p>
<strong>Although the newton was (and still is, for fear of offending!) attractive, its rebirth should be considered within the existing and soon to be released smart phone technology. See this article <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4436688,00.html"; target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4436688,00.html</a>; on the O2 XDA, or the upcoming Sony P800 <a href="http://www.sonyericsson.com/P800/frameset.htm."; target="_blank">http://www.sonyericsson.com/P800/frameset.htm.</a>;
I'm not sure where a newton would fit in this area where convergence seems to be king.
[ 06-25-2002: Message edited by: gramsci ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Excellent points. PDAs are starting to change into mobiles/mobiles into PDAs. Handspring sees it, Palm (so far) doesn't, or rather, couldn't wedge themselves in with Nokia et al. Symbion is a nice OS, too, as is Pixo's offerings. I think it is most important for Apple to make sure OS X 'plays nice' with all these gadgets, not produce the gadget. If they don't play nice with OS X (like MP3 players), then Apple may step in.
Of course, if Apple did make a PDA/Pad/mobile phone, I would be first in line to buy it :cool:
<a href="http://theregister.co.uk/content/54/25886.html"; target="_blank">http://theregister.co.uk/content/54/25886.html</a>;
mabey apple will field its own pda because it dosnt want to deal with Be, i mean palm. if apple was concerned about its relationship with palm going sour under the new management, it would make sense to market their own device. mabey im reading into it to much, but its as likely an excuse for apple management as any.
<strong>hey, check out this story at the register.
<a href="http://theregister.co.uk/content/54/25886.html"; target="_blank">http://theregister.co.uk/content/54/25886.html</a>;
mabey apple will field its own pda because it dosnt want to deal with Be, i mean palm. if apple was concerned about its relationship with palm going sour under the new management, it would make sense to market their own device. mabey im reading into it to much, but its as likely an excuse for apple management as any.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Funny you shoud say that, I was thinking the exact opposite. Be seems like an ideal partner for Apple now, as X would benefit from parts of BeOS, and Be/Palm would benefit from Apple design (be honest, Palms are not exciting devices).
I doubt it will happen, but it doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.
PocketPCs only suceeded through compaq/hp dealing with their business clients, with deals better for the clients than them, to force PocketPCs (crap platform) through.
Treos, communicators etc. IMHO will only suceed if this happends to.
Does anyone here want a mobile phone 4 times the size of your current one, so it can fit the screen and ARM CPUs into it? Does anyone here want a PDA with a screen the size of their mobile, and a mobile phone keypad?
A PDA organises. A mobile communicates. It makes far more sense to have both bluetooth enabled, then you can leave your mobile in your pocket, connected to the 'net while you type e-mails on your PDA.
Connection between devices? Yes. Convergence? No. A combination phone/camera/pda/whatever is pretty stupid, considering the divergent nature of their functions.
Barto
like i said, allinwonder = allinblunder. one thing wont do it all, but different devices can work together real well to accomplish more. think "personal area network" next time you buy some new kit.
<strong>
PDAs and mobile phones will not converge. They are totally different devices.
Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, they are two different devices. BUT, the what they have in common is this: To get maximum use out of them, they need to be carried at all times. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't like having to carry around extra items. I hate carrying both a billfold and a set of keys and my HP calculator... now a cell phone and a PDA.
Also, the logic behind size doesn't hold. The poster suggests no one wants a PDA the size of their cell phone, and nobody wants a cell phone the size of a PDA. Well, since a PDA is the larger of the two devices, why not add cell phone capability to it? If you are having to carry around a PDA anyway, why desire to also carry a cell phone?
My wife has the cheap Koyocea (sp?) PDA/Cell phone. She love it. It's larger than her old cell phone, but the solution takes up much less phone (and hassle) than her carrying both a cell phone and a PDA. Even if they were linked via Bluetooth.
My best idea would be to modify the iPod so that it worked as a PDA as well as played MP3 files, acted like a hard drive, etc. I think someone may have done this already as a hack.
Apple's best bet is to work with Palm and get OSX and MacOS 9 working with everything Palm. Why compete against an already almost perfect product like PalmOS? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>Face it Apple wouldn't know how to market the PDA and would end up with another Newton on their hands.
My best idea would be to modify the iPod so that it worked as a PDA as well as played MP3 files, acted like a hard drive, etc. I think someone may have done this already as a hack.
Apple's best bet is to work with Palm and get OSX and MacOS 9 working with everything Palm. Why compete against an already almost perfect product like PalmOS?
PalmOS is hardly a perfect product. It's still one of those 'cool, you've got a palm' kinda things, however when it comes down to functionality they are difficult to work with, and are not good for anything besides contacts.
offers organising functions comparable to the palm/clie/etc but it also has a real capability of sending and receiving emails/ web information/pictures at a speed not far from conventional modems due to the high speed networks in the UK and other parts of Europe. These services are costly, but they exist.
As to the addition of a camera to these devices, I don't think the phenomenon of phone messaging is appreciated enough.
Whatever your general inclination, the unfortuante truth is that such devices exist, (due in part to MS hegemony and phone companies seeking a larger market share) and are proliferating. In restoring the Newton, you would have to consider not only the PDA technology, but the phone hybrids that are developing rapidly to be your digital hub away from your larger desktop/laptop.
[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: gramsci ]</p>
"Palm is releasing an Apple enhanced PDA."
This makes the most sense for Apple. They send a couple of software/hardware reps to Palm as consultants. Apple has the benefits of not having to put up the cash for the manufacturing, marketing and inventory. Palm gets to release the coolest, full-featured, Clie-killer PDA and also instantly gets the Mac PDA user market.
<strong>Steve, "We are not going to release a PDA" plus "We've been working very closely with these guys (Palm)" equals ...
"Palm is releasing an Apple enhanced PDA."
This makes the most sense for Apple. They send a couple of software/hardware reps to Palm as consultants. Apple has the benefits of not having to put up the cash for the manufacturing, marketing and inventory. Palm gets to release the coolest, full-featured, Clie-killer PDA and also instantly gets the Mac PDA user market.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I tend to think too much is made of things Steve says. He's not a god, he's an intelligent bloke who owns Apple and knows what Apple should do.
I'd be willing to bet that quote was forced out of him by some journalist. At the time (and by that I mean that second) it was 100% true. But equally he would probably have said "We are not going to release a MP3 player/rackmount/LCD iMac" too. In his position he can't afford to say "We are going to release XYZ" in case they don't.
As for a MWNY release of an iPDA, I doubt it, but Ink isn't in Jaguar as a toy. My bet is either on a Tablet Mac or OQO style device. I even suspect OQO is a decoy, but we'll need to wait and see.
[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: Blackcat ]</p>