But this is what you're not getting...a 24 month plan is not a 24 month plan. The phone is not paid off in 24 months (or 12, or 18 for that matter).
On the Next 12 your phone is paid of in something like 18 months. In the Next 18 your phone is paid off in like 24 months, and in the next 24 it is paid off in like 30 months.
In the end you pay the retail price (within less than a dollar) and the phone is yours. It is paid off.
The Next plan is about the same over the 2 year life of the normal contract when you consider phone cost, service costs, activation fee, etc. If you have at least 10GB plan, then Next is cheaper by about $190.
This is ignoring people who have grandfathered unlimited plans and actually use a buttload of data. (I had a grandfathered unlimited plan but since I was not using a buttload of data each month, just a few GB, I gave it up and went to the normal plan as it saved me money)
Let's do the math with a 16GB iPhone 6 for a plan less than 10GB:
I'll leave out the cost of data per month since that is the same either way
On contract: $199 plus $40 activation fee. = $239.00.
24 months x $40 service fee = $960
24 month cost == $1199
On Next installment plan: $0 plus $0 activation fee
24 months x $27.xx = $649.20 (based on Apple's figures in the chart)
24 month x $25 service fee = $600
24 month cost == $1249.20
The 2 year contract is slightly cheaper
I do have an unlimited plan, and use a moderate amount of data. It's been more lately, but I could live with 6GB...maybe even 3. As for the rest of analysis, we each forgot something. I left out the activation/upgrade fee of $40 (or $38...whatever). That brings my current monthly cost to around $88. However, you left out the sale of the old phone, which nets me around $150. I think I actually got $180 for my iPhone 5.
Quote:
If you have a 10GB or more data plan associated with this, then on the 2 year contract the price for the monthly service fee is still $40/month. But on the Next plan it is $15 a month
So, Next plan 24 months, 10GB plan, the service fee is 24 x $15 = $360
Total 24 month cost for phone is only $1009.20 or you save about $190 over the cost of the 2 year contract plan.
If you share this data with multiple people on the same plan, EACH PHONE is only charged the $15 per month ($40 per month per phone on contract) and you can easily share 10GB of data across multiple phones.
I run 3 lines on Next with a 10GB plan. Saves us about $570 over 24 months compared to getting the same phones, data plan, etc on 2 year contract.
I ignored taxes and federeal fees and all that in the calculations.
If your data plan is over 10GB
We're getting into reality now, because my wife and I share a plan. I have unlimited data, she does not (at least that's what I recall). We would need a 10GB plan. Our current bill is about $170 a month combined, and we both have iPhones. Looking at the website, I come up with a 10GB mobileshare plan at $136, plus the hardware costs. According to the website, two iPhone 6's would run us around $173 with no money down. This would be for the 24 month upgrade. Sounds about the same, until you realize that when you upgrade, you don't have the old phones paid off yet. You'd still owe about $250 on those phones (6 months each). If you paid them off and sold them for $175 a piece (historically, this is a pretty good bet), You'd walk away with $100 at most. If they were two year contract phones, you'd have $350. Of course, you'd have also dropped $600 up front to buy them, but to quote the Obama adminsitration..."dude, that was like two years ago."
It really depends on how you look at it and where you are in the process. If you're an existing iPhone user who upgrades every two years (like me) and someone who is on unlimited data (like me), NEXT is definitely more expensive.
The best way buy the phone outright and pay the cheaper plan. You will have an unlocked phone and no contract, this way you can change carriers any time you wish and be able to take advantage of any special promotions they run from time to time.
But this is what you're not getting...a 24 month plan is not a 24 month plan. The phone is not paid off in 24 months (or 12, or 18 for that matter).
Sure it is. I'm not sure why you are so confused about this. It is plainly stated on my bill how much more there is to pay for my phone and how much I have paid. No tricks.
I guess the fact that they call it the NEXT18 for the 24 month payoff it what's tripping you up. Pay for 24 months, and the phone is yours.
Also, I guess since I have a larger data plan(?), I am only paying $15 per line for the service fee, not $25.
Just to clarify, the "fees" are not federal or from any other governmental body. They are inventions of AT&T (and all the other carriers). It's a complete scam. What other business is allowed to advertise one price and then when you get to the store has added on a bunch of fees.
Actually, there are government imposed fees in the bill. The "Surcharges & Fees" are listed separately from the "Government Fees & Taxes" (GF&T)
My GF&T are
City District Sales Tax -- Telecom $0.09
City Sales Tax -- Telecom $0.18
County Sales Tax -- Telecom $0.11
Local Wireless 911 Surcharge $0.61
UT State Sales Tax -- Telecom $0.82
Unified Statewide 911 Charge $0.09
My Surcharges & Fees are the (partially) made up crap. Some of them are fees imposed by the state or feds that they then spread out over the user base (which I would argue are part of their cost of business and should not be levied separately but whatever)
This moron is an AT&T lackey. He gave it away with this "makes sense to give up the grandfathered unlimited data plan" bit.
Booool!
Roake,
Please read my full message. You have to do the math. I said that it made sense in my situation to do so. I even told the person I was replying to "As a new every 1 customer who is currently still unlimited it may not make sense for you to do NEXT." I agree switching off of the unlimited plan is not something done lightly, but depending on your circumstances if MAY make sense to do so. In my case it did. In his case it may not. In your case I don't know.
It really depends on how you look at it and where you are in the process. If you're an existing iPhone user who upgrades every two years (like me) and someone who is on unlimited data (like me), NEXT is definitely more expensive.
Still, no. I am just like you except I dropped the unlimited for family share (30GB). On the contract, you are paying $25/month for 2 years for the phone when you take into account the difference between the line access prices (40-15). That's $600. When you buy a phone on contract, you pay all but $450 of the price up front ($199 for a $649 phone, and so forth), meaning you have now basically paid an extra $150 for your phone.
On NEXT, as long as you go to the full term, all your payments equals that $649, but you've in effect paid $799 for it by doing a 2 year contract.
Again, it is only $150 over 2 years, but it's still your money.
I do have an unlimited plan, and use a moderate amount of data. It's been more lately, but I could live with 6GB...maybe even 3. As for the rest of analysis, we each forgot something. I left out the activation/upgrade fee of $40 (or $38...whatever). That brings my current monthly cost to around $88. However, you left out the sale of the old phone, which nets me around $150. I think I actually got $180 for my iPhone 5.
We're getting into reality now, because my wife and I share a plan. I have unlimited data, she does not (at least that's what I recall). We would need a 10GB plan. Our current bill is about $170 a month combined, and we both have iPhones. Looking at the website, I come up with a 10GB mobileshare plan at $136, plus the hardware costs. According to the website, two iPhone 6's would run us around $173 with no money down. This would be for the 24 month upgrade. Sounds about the same, until you realize that when you upgrade, you don't have the old phones paid off yet. You'd still owe about $250 on those phones (6 months each). If you paid them off and sold them for $175 a piece (historically, this is a pretty good bet), You'd walk away with $100 at most. If they were two year contract phones, you'd have $350. Of course, you'd have also dropped $600 up front to buy them, but to quote the Obama adminsitration..."dude, that was like two years ago."
It really depends on how you look at it and where you are in the process. If you're an existing iPhone user who upgrades every two years (like me) and someone who is on unlimited data (like me), NEXT is definitely more expensive.
I did not leave out the sale of the old phone. NO MATTER WHAT PLAN YOU ARE ON YOU CAN SELL THE OLD PHONE. And not every one sells it. So it is a wash no matter what and not relevant to the differences.
On the NEXT18 plan, you ARE completely paid off and the phone is yours at 24 months. The 18 is in reference to when they will let you trade it in for a new phone and stop having to pay on that phone. I ignore that 18 since I keep all my phones (either to sell myself or use for someone else in the family or as dev test phones)
I just did a sample with two iPhone 6/16gb for 24 month (next18) with 10GB plan. No up front costs (no activation or phone fee). Assume no employer discounts
$184.18 per month for service and phone costs (does not includes the govt taxes, fees, surcharges, etc). At the end of 24 months the phones are your to keep. No more is due.
Total cost of 2 phones PLUS service at 10GB level for 24 months. At end of 24 months phones are yours to keep. $4420.32
Same thing now with 2 year contract and subsidized phones. I don't know how the cost of the grandfathered unlimited plan works in to this so I will ignore that for now. You can modify based on your own bill
Cost up front for phone: $399.98
Monthly cost for 10gb shared plan: $180.00
Added to first bill only: $80 (2 x $40 activation fee)
24 month total cost of phones and service. At end of the 24 months phones are yours to keep. $4799.98
If you do it with a 3GB shared plan on 2 year contracts the total is $3359.98 PLUS whatever your monthly charge is for your grandfathered plan. If that is $40 a month then an additional $960 would be $4319.98 which is less than $50 off the ATT Next. If your grandfathered plans are more than $40 or your wife is using more than 3GB then the total goes over the Next18 plan with 10GB of data.
Please read my full message. You have to do the math. I said that it made sense in my situation to do so. I even told the person I was replying to "As a new every 1 customer who is currently still unlimited it may not make sense for you to do NEXT." I agree switching off of the unlimited plan is not something done lightly, but depending on your circumstances if MAY make sense to do so. In my case it did. In his case it may not. In your case I don't know.
I saved money getting off the unlimited grandfathered plan. It all depends on how much data you use. I was not using more than a few GB anyway so it made sense to get off. Plus I got tethering etc in the built in price for non grandfathered mobile data share plans which I had to pay extra for in grandfathered plan.
Each person's situation is different. If you are using 10s of GB each month then it probably makes sense to stay on it.
Sure it is. I'm not sure why you are so confused about this. It is plainly stated on my bill how much more there is to pay for my phone and how much I have paid. No tricks.
I guess the fact that they call it the NEXT18 for the 24 month payoff it what's tripping you up. Pay for 24 months, and the phone is yours.
Also, I guess since I have a larger data plan(?), I am only paying $15 per line for the service fee, not $25.
And I'm not sure why you're being an ass about it. Nothing is "tripping me up." We're simply referring to different plans. There are plans advertised as 12, 18 and 24 months. I'm saying that one has to add 6 months to the plan in order for it to be paid off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrboba1
Still, no. I am just like you except I dropped the unlimited for family share (30GB). On the contract, you are paying $25/month for 2 years for the phone when you take into account the difference between the line access prices (40-15). That's $600. When you buy a phone on contract, you pay all but $450 of the price up front ($199 for a $649 phone, and so forth), meaning you have now basically paid an extra $150 for your phone.
On NEXT, as long as you go to the full term, all your payments equals that $649, but you've in effect paid $799 for it by doing a 2 year contract.
Again, it is only $150 over 2 years, but it's still your money.
Full Term=6 months longer than the plan name. That's where discrepancy is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadbag
I did not leave out the sale of the old phone. NO MATTER WHAT PLAN YOU ARE ON YOU CAN SELL THE OLD PHONE. And not every one sells it. So it is a wash no matter what and not relevant to the differences.
Yes, but if you are not paid off, it makes a difference.
Quote:
On the NEXT18 plan, you ARE completely paid off and the phone is yours at 24 months. The 18 is in reference to when they will let you trade it in for a new phone and stop having to pay on that phone. I ignore that 18 since I keep all my phones (either to sell myself or use for someone else in the family or as dev test phones)
I'm aware. But you are not like most consumers. People who sign up for an 18 month plan are almost definitely going to upgrade every 18 months. The same goes for any other plan, be it the 12 or 24. They won't wait until the phone is paid off. And really, why would you?
Quote:
I just did a sample with two iPhone 6/16gb for 24 month (next18) with 10GB plan. No up front costs (no activation or phone fee). Assume no employer discounts
$184.18 per month for service and phone costs (does not includes the govt taxes, fees, surcharges, etc). At the end of 24 months the phones are your to keep. No more is due.
Total cost of 2 phones PLUS service at 10GB level for 24 months. At end of 24 months phones are yours to keep. $4420.32
Same thing now with 2 year contract and subsidized phones. I don't know how the cost of the grandfathered unlimited plan works in to this so I will ignore that for now. You can modify based on your own bill
Cost up front for phone: $399.98
Monthly cost for 10gb shared plan: $180.00
Added to first bill only: $80 (2 x $40 activation fee)
24 month total cost of phones and service. At end of the 24 months phones are yours to keep. $4799.98
I understand the math, but in reality it's not the situation someone like me actually faces. This is what I was trying to explain. Someone like me walks into the 2 year contract with an existing phone worth $175 already ($350 for two, obviously). That offsets the subsidized upfront price significantly. This results in a situation where the amortized monthly cost is slightly more than what we pay now. If we choose Next18 but wait until 24 months to upgrade, you're correct that you own the phone outright. Then again, you've also been paying $21 a month for a two year old phone, so I can only imagine I'd upgrade when eligible, put nothing down and keep my payment.
We're kind of going into the weeds here. My larger point is this isn't something AT&T did because they'll make less money.
I understand the math, but in reality it's not the situation someone like me actually faces. This is what I was trying to explain. Someone like me walks into the 2 year contract with an existing phone worth $175 already ($350 for two, obviously). That offsets the subsidized upfront price significantly. This results in a situation where the amortized monthly cost is slightly more than what we pay now. If we choose Next18 but wait until 24 months to upgrade, you're correct that you own the phone outright. Then again, you've also been paying $21 a month for a two year old phone, so I can only imagine I'd upgrade when eligible, put nothing down and keep my payment.
We're kind of going into the weeds here. My larger point is this isn't something AT&T did because they'll make less money.
You've been paying the $21+ a month for a 2 year old phone as well. It was just wrapped up in higher service fees.
Since they spell out that Next18 is a 24 month term, right in the sales contract, your bill, etc. I imagine more people pay the whole thing off than you realize. Sure, there will always be a bunch of people who will upgrade when 12 or 18 months hit, but there are probably also a lot who ride it out the complete 24 months, which is what your 2 year contract is.
The biggest "advantage" (besides paying less over 24 months if high GB data plan of 10GB or more) of the NEXT plan vs the contract plan is that there is no contract. You can quit at any time. All you have to do is finish paying off the phone loan you got (installment plan). On a contract you can break the contract and pay an early termination fee, but that has more stigma with it -- I don't know what sort of reporting they do on those. And I don't know the economics of it either.
AT&T does indeed want you to do this, even if you end up paying them less over 24 months, because they don't have to cough up subsidies every iPhone launch cycle for millions of phones. Apple gets paid up front. I imagine with the installment plan (NEXT) that they either work through some finance company behind the scenes or can account for it differently or something that makes it worthwhile to them.
You've been paying the $21+ a month for a 2 year old phone as well. It was just wrapped up in higher service fees.
Not that much higher. About the same, actually.
Quote:
Since they spell out that Next18 is a 24 month term, right in the sales contract, your bill, etc. I imagine more people pay the whole thing off than you realize. Sure, there will always be a bunch of people who will upgrade when 12 or 18 months hit, but there are probably also a lot who ride it out the complete 24 months, which is what your 2 year contract is.
I disagree with that judgment entirely. People always want to upgrade as fast as possible, which is the entire hook of the Next campaign to begin with. We also tend to look at our month to month expenses rather than total expense when the numbers are fairly close. In 18 months, you can get a new phone and not pay a dime more than you're paying at the moment.
Quote:
The biggest "advantage" (besides paying less over 24 months if high GB data plan of 10GB or more) of the NEXT plan vs the contract plan is that there is no contract. You can quit at any time. All you have to do is finish paying off the phone loan you got (installment plan). On a contract you can break the contract and pay an early termination fee, but that has more stigma with it -- I don't know what sort of reporting they do on those. And I don't know the economics of it either.
That's true, I suppose. AT&T's fee is $325 minus $10 a month for completed months in the contract.
Quote:
AT&T does indeed want you to do this, even if you end up paying them less over 24 months, because they don't have to cough up subsidies every iPhone launch cycle for millions of phones. Apple gets paid up front. I imagine with the installment plan (NEXT) that they either work through some finance company behind the scenes or can account for it differently or something that makes it worthwhile to them.
Certainly agree with that. I wonder how they actually finance it as well. I would imagine they themselves are not fronting the money. They are probably borrowing it at a rate they build into their receipts.
I disagree with that judgment entirely. People always want to upgrade as fast as possible, which is the entire hook of the Next campaign to begin with. We also tend to look at our month to month expenses rather than total expense when the numbers are fairly close. In 18 months, you can get a new phone and not pay a dime more than you're paying at the moment.
I'd be careful about saying "always." I'd bet that a lot of people do want to upgrade as frequently as possible, but I know of several people who pay off the phone and use it another 2-3 years so as to minimize their expenses for the phone -- same cost but longer lifespan = less per month cost to run the phone. And I bet that due to the clamor in the market that brought us NEXT (and the Verizon equivalent and the similar plans at others) that once you had paid for the phone (at the end of the contract) your monthly expense, at the time, did not go down. Due to that, I'd bet there is a significant fraction of people who do run it out to the end of the actual payment period.
All the phone companies originally substantially increased their monthly rate plans because of the subsidy. If they take away subsidies then it would be the right thing to do to lower the plans down since now you're only paying for data, phone, and text. Subsidies don't save you money, rather you still pay for the phone in the form of higher rates yet you don't have ownership of the phone during your contract and can't take it to anyone else.
If they take away subsidies and don't lower their plans there is something seriously wrong with those companies.
And I'm not sure why you're being an ass about it. Nothing is "tripping me up." We're simply referring to different plans. There are plans advertised as 12, 18 and 24 months. I'm saying that one has to add 6 months to the plan in order for it to be paid off.
Full Term=6 months longer than the plan name. That's where discrepancy is.
We're kind of going into the weeds here. My larger point is this isn't something AT&T did because they'll make less money.
God damn. I wasn't being an ass, but now I will be. I'm sorry you can't get beyond a marketing term (NEXT 18) and the actual contract (for 24 months) I guess you are just too f*ing obtuse to let that go or understand what 18 and 24 actually MEAN in these plans.
AT&T IS doing it and making less money because that is what the market bears. Others are undercutting them, so they have to respond and make less money to not lose the customers.
1. Subsidy is gone. Sorry. That $299 phone is now a $699 phone. The $599 128gb Plus model will now cost a cool grand ($!)
2. Monthly plan stays the same price (remember that previously, the plan included the subsidy, so now you are paying for the subsidy without getting the benefit of it).
3. Add payments for your new phone on top of the monthly payments. So much for saving money.
4. Want to trade in your phone for a new one after a year? No problem. AT&T owns the old one. Sorry! Can't give it to family. Those payments you were making... Gone! AT&T says thanks for the free money.
5. Want to own your phone? Pay the retail price on the phone. ALL of it, now. Then you get the title to the phone.
6. Oh, yeah. You can't preorder your phone from Apple.com unless you prepay the full, unsubsidized, retail price UP FRONT (so much for payment plans). Want to preorder and have a payment plan? Sucks to be you. Guess you could finance it on a credit card at credit card interest rates (not... smart).
7. Average amount you pay AT&T goes up from 15-25% (annually), and you have zero extra to show for it.
8. What do you think happens if you accidentally break or lose that phone you are using (you know, since you are now BORROWING it from AT&T)? Think they will offer to just replace it for free?
9. Thanks, AT&T, for having your customer's best interests at heart.
Where this actually has some benefit are for people who really want to buy a nice phone, but can't scrape together the $299 to get it. Otherwise, it's just a bad deal all around, from what I can tell. The are any number of ways to change carriers with no penalty these days, so that's not even a real benefit.
Bottom line... AT&T is a bunch of greedy bastards.
It's a very bad deal. With the 18 month next you pay 20 months of 32.45 which is 650 plus the 50 up front so it's turned into 700. To buy the phone right out is 750. So you're only saving 50 bucks and having to pay the full price of the phone. But with two year contract you're only paying the amount up front you want to pay. Cause my monthly bill is the same as it was off contract and on. I paid 350 up front for my phone and that's it. But with the next program they are making you pay for the full price of the phone. And if they start making us doing that I'll just go somewhere else. And the people who think the att next program is good is stupid and can't do math lol. And those are who att are depending on. But trust me the next program is bill crap. Let's say you pick the 12 month next. You pay the 32.45 for 20 months before the phone is "yours" but if you choose to get a new one after the 12th payment then you're paying almost 400 just to borrow the phone cause you have to give it back to them and that's if you haven't drop it or any kind of damage or you won't be able too then you still have to pay the 20 month payment which in turns add up to 699. And to buy a brand new one is 749. reference to iPhone 6 64 gig. So the bottom line is if you do the next program you're going to be paying the 400 a year to borrow a cell phone. Unless you pay the for the full 20 months to keep it then you're paying full price. Where as with a two year contract you're only paying how ever much up front and that's it. And the phone is yours.
Honestly doing a two year contract you spend more money you need to do the math and next plan is cheaper down the road you save 250 every two years and plus the people on the grandfathered plan ruin it for other people that has the att service
no it's not cheaper. With the next you're either paying 400 for a year to borrow a iPhone or 700 after the 20 monthly payments to keep it and retail price of an iPhone 6 64 g is only 750. So no in long run you're either wasting money to borrow a iPhone or having to pay full price is it. That doesn't count if you get the 16 g iPhone then you're over paying for it and att get to keep the extra money.
I disagree with that judgment entirely. People always want to upgrade as fast as possible, which is the entire hook of the Next campaign to begin with. We also tend to look at our month to month expenses rather than total expense when the numbers are fairly close. In 18 months, you can get a new phone and not pay a dime more than you're paying at the moment.
I'd be careful about saying "always." I'd bet that a lot of people do want to upgrade as frequently as possible, but I know of several people who pay off the phone and use it another 2-3 years so as to minimize their expenses for the phone -- same cost but longer lifespan = less per month cost to run the phone. And I bet that due to the clamor in the market that brought us NEXT (and the Verizon equivalent and the similar plans at others) that once you had paid for the phone (at the end of the contract) your monthly expense, at the time, did not go down. Due to that, I'd bet there is a significant fraction of people who do run it out to the end of the actual payment period.
You focused on the wrong word. The operative word was 'want'. People don't/can't always do what they want.
Same answer. The people I know, which may not be the majority, but are still one group, want value. I don't know anyone in my circle who tries to upgrade as fast as they can. They may not be representative but are a counter point to your claim. I would hazard to guess a significant number of people hold the phone to complete term as they want value.
This AT&T executive seems to have lack the candor to point out the obvious, that his company has to change its policies because T-Mobile changed theirs and the move has proved popular,
Comments
But this is what you're not getting...a 24 month plan is not a 24 month plan. The phone is not paid off in 24 months (or 12, or 18 for that matter).
On the Next 12 your phone is paid of in something like 18 months. In the Next 18 your phone is paid off in like 24 months, and in the next 24 it is paid off in like 30 months.
In the end you pay the retail price (within less than a dollar) and the phone is yours. It is paid off.
The Next plan is about the same over the 2 year life of the normal contract when you consider phone cost, service costs, activation fee, etc. If you have at least 10GB plan, then Next is cheaper by about $190.
This is ignoring people who have grandfathered unlimited plans and actually use a buttload of data. (I had a grandfathered unlimited plan but since I was not using a buttload of data each month, just a few GB, I gave it up and went to the normal plan as it saved me money)
Let's do the math with a 16GB iPhone 6 for a plan less than 10GB:
I'll leave out the cost of data per month since that is the same either way
On contract: $199 plus $40 activation fee. = $239.00.
24 months x $40 service fee = $960
24 month cost == $1199
On Next installment plan: $0 plus $0 activation fee
24 months x $27.xx = $649.20 (based on Apple's figures in the chart)
24 month x $25 service fee = $600
24 month cost == $1249.20
The 2 year contract is slightly cheaper
I do have an unlimited plan, and use a moderate amount of data. It's been more lately, but I could live with 6GB...maybe even 3. As for the rest of analysis, we each forgot something. I left out the activation/upgrade fee of $40 (or $38...whatever). That brings my current monthly cost to around $88. However, you left out the sale of the old phone, which nets me around $150. I think I actually got $180 for my iPhone 5.
If you have a 10GB or more data plan associated with this, then on the 2 year contract the price for the monthly service fee is still $40/month. But on the Next plan it is $15 a month
So, Next plan 24 months, 10GB plan, the service fee is 24 x $15 = $360
Total 24 month cost for phone is only $1009.20 or you save about $190 over the cost of the 2 year contract plan.
If you share this data with multiple people on the same plan, EACH PHONE is only charged the $15 per month ($40 per month per phone on contract) and you can easily share 10GB of data across multiple phones.
I run 3 lines on Next with a 10GB plan. Saves us about $570 over 24 months compared to getting the same phones, data plan, etc on 2 year contract.
I ignored taxes and federeal fees and all that in the calculations.
If your data plan is over 10GB
We're getting into reality now, because my wife and I share a plan. I have unlimited data, she does not (at least that's what I recall). We would need a 10GB plan. Our current bill is about $170 a month combined, and we both have iPhones. Looking at the website, I come up with a 10GB mobileshare plan at $136, plus the hardware costs. According to the website, two iPhone 6's would run us around $173 with no money down. This would be for the 24 month upgrade. Sounds about the same, until you realize that when you upgrade, you don't have the old phones paid off yet. You'd still owe about $250 on those phones (6 months each). If you paid them off and sold them for $175 a piece (historically, this is a pretty good bet), You'd walk away with $100 at most. If they were two year contract phones, you'd have $350. Of course, you'd have also dropped $600 up front to buy them, but to quote the Obama adminsitration..."dude, that was like two years ago."
It really depends on how you look at it and where you are in the process. If you're an existing iPhone user who upgrades every two years (like me) and someone who is on unlimited data (like me), NEXT is definitely more expensive.
But this is what you're not getting...a 24 month plan is not a 24 month plan. The phone is not paid off in 24 months (or 12, or 18 for that matter).
Sure it is. I'm not sure why you are so confused about this. It is plainly stated on my bill how much more there is to pay for my phone and how much I have paid. No tricks.
I guess the fact that they call it the NEXT18 for the 24 month payoff it what's tripping you up. Pay for 24 months, and the phone is yours.
Also, I guess since I have a larger data plan(?), I am only paying $15 per line for the service fee, not $25.
Just to clarify, the "fees" are not federal or from any other governmental body. They are inventions of AT&T (and all the other carriers). It's a complete scam. What other business is allowed to advertise one price and then when you get to the store has added on a bunch of fees.
Actually, there are government imposed fees in the bill. The "Surcharges & Fees" are listed separately from the "Government Fees & Taxes" (GF&T)
My GF&T are
City District Sales Tax -- Telecom $0.09
City Sales Tax -- Telecom $0.18
County Sales Tax -- Telecom $0.11
Local Wireless 911 Surcharge $0.61
UT State Sales Tax -- Telecom $0.82
Unified Statewide 911 Charge $0.09
My Surcharges & Fees are the (partially) made up crap. Some of them are fees imposed by the state or feds that they then spread out over the user base (which I would argue are part of their cost of business and should not be levied separately but whatever)
Administrative Fee $0.61
Computer Aided Dispatch Surcharge $0.06
Federal Universal Service Charge $0.92
Municipal License Surcharge $0.60
Regulatory Cost Recovery Charge $0.85
Relay Service Device Fund Surcharge $0.02
Utah Universal Service $0.11
The above are a lot more suspect than the GF&T
This moron is an AT&T lackey. He gave it away with this "makes sense to give up the grandfathered unlimited data plan" bit.
Booool!
Roake,
Please read my full message. You have to do the math. I said that it made sense in my situation to do so. I even told the person I was replying to "As a new every 1 customer who is currently still unlimited it may not make sense for you to do NEXT." I agree switching off of the unlimited plan is not something done lightly, but depending on your circumstances if MAY make sense to do so. In my case it did. In his case it may not. In your case I don't know.
It really depends on how you look at it and where you are in the process. If you're an existing iPhone user who upgrades every two years (like me) and someone who is on unlimited data (like me), NEXT is definitely more expensive.
Still, no. I am just like you except I dropped the unlimited for family share (30GB). On the contract, you are paying $25/month for 2 years for the phone when you take into account the difference between the line access prices (40-15). That's $600. When you buy a phone on contract, you pay all but $450 of the price up front ($199 for a $649 phone, and so forth), meaning you have now basically paid an extra $150 for your phone.
On NEXT, as long as you go to the full term, all your payments equals that $649, but you've in effect paid $799 for it by doing a 2 year contract.
Again, it is only $150 over 2 years, but it's still your money.
I do have an unlimited plan, and use a moderate amount of data. It's been more lately, but I could live with 6GB...maybe even 3. As for the rest of analysis, we each forgot something. I left out the activation/upgrade fee of $40 (or $38...whatever). That brings my current monthly cost to around $88. However, you left out the sale of the old phone, which nets me around $150. I think I actually got $180 for my iPhone 5.
We're getting into reality now, because my wife and I share a plan. I have unlimited data, she does not (at least that's what I recall). We would need a 10GB plan. Our current bill is about $170 a month combined, and we both have iPhones. Looking at the website, I come up with a 10GB mobileshare plan at $136, plus the hardware costs. According to the website, two iPhone 6's would run us around $173 with no money down. This would be for the 24 month upgrade. Sounds about the same, until you realize that when you upgrade, you don't have the old phones paid off yet. You'd still owe about $250 on those phones (6 months each). If you paid them off and sold them for $175 a piece (historically, this is a pretty good bet), You'd walk away with $100 at most. If they were two year contract phones, you'd have $350. Of course, you'd have also dropped $600 up front to buy them, but to quote the Obama adminsitration..."dude, that was like two years ago."
It really depends on how you look at it and where you are in the process. If you're an existing iPhone user who upgrades every two years (like me) and someone who is on unlimited data (like me), NEXT is definitely more expensive.
I did not leave out the sale of the old phone. NO MATTER WHAT PLAN YOU ARE ON YOU CAN SELL THE OLD PHONE. And not every one sells it. So it is a wash no matter what and not relevant to the differences.
On the NEXT18 plan, you ARE completely paid off and the phone is yours at 24 months. The 18 is in reference to when they will let you trade it in for a new phone and stop having to pay on that phone. I ignore that 18 since I keep all my phones (either to sell myself or use for someone else in the family or as dev test phones)
I just did a sample with two iPhone 6/16gb for 24 month (next18) with 10GB plan. No up front costs (no activation or phone fee). Assume no employer discounts
$184.18 per month for service and phone costs (does not includes the govt taxes, fees, surcharges, etc). At the end of 24 months the phones are your to keep. No more is due.
Total cost of 2 phones PLUS service at 10GB level for 24 months. At end of 24 months phones are yours to keep. $4420.32
Same thing now with 2 year contract and subsidized phones. I don't know how the cost of the grandfathered unlimited plan works in to this so I will ignore that for now. You can modify based on your own bill
Cost up front for phone: $399.98
Monthly cost for 10gb shared plan: $180.00
Added to first bill only: $80 (2 x $40 activation fee)
24 month total cost of phones and service. At end of the 24 months phones are yours to keep. $4799.98
If you do it with a 3GB shared plan on 2 year contracts the total is $3359.98 PLUS whatever your monthly charge is for your grandfathered plan. If that is $40 a month then an additional $960 would be $4319.98 which is less than $50 off the ATT Next. If your grandfathered plans are more than $40 or your wife is using more than 3GB then the total goes over the Next18 plan with 10GB of data.
If
Roake,
Please read my full message. You have to do the math. I said that it made sense in my situation to do so. I even told the person I was replying to "As a new every 1 customer who is currently still unlimited it may not make sense for you to do NEXT." I agree switching off of the unlimited plan is not something done lightly, but depending on your circumstances if MAY make sense to do so. In my case it did. In his case it may not. In your case I don't know.
I saved money getting off the unlimited grandfathered plan. It all depends on how much data you use. I was not using more than a few GB anyway so it made sense to get off. Plus I got tethering etc in the built in price for non grandfathered mobile data share plans which I had to pay extra for in grandfathered plan.
Each person's situation is different. If you are using 10s of GB each month then it probably makes sense to stay on it.
Sure it is. I'm not sure why you are so confused about this. It is plainly stated on my bill how much more there is to pay for my phone and how much I have paid. No tricks.
I guess the fact that they call it the NEXT18 for the 24 month payoff it what's tripping you up. Pay for 24 months, and the phone is yours.
Also, I guess since I have a larger data plan(?), I am only paying $15 per line for the service fee, not $25.
And I'm not sure why you're being an ass about it. Nothing is "tripping me up." We're simply referring to different plans. There are plans advertised as 12, 18 and 24 months. I'm saying that one has to add 6 months to the plan in order for it to be paid off.
Still, no. I am just like you except I dropped the unlimited for family share (30GB). On the contract, you are paying $25/month for 2 years for the phone when you take into account the difference between the line access prices (40-15). That's $600. When you buy a phone on contract, you pay all but $450 of the price up front ($199 for a $649 phone, and so forth), meaning you have now basically paid an extra $150 for your phone.
On NEXT, as long as you go to the full term, all your payments equals that $649, but you've in effect paid $799 for it by doing a 2 year contract.
Again, it is only $150 over 2 years, but it's still your money.
Full Term=6 months longer than the plan name. That's where discrepancy is.
I did not leave out the sale of the old phone. NO MATTER WHAT PLAN YOU ARE ON YOU CAN SELL THE OLD PHONE. And not every one sells it. So it is a wash no matter what and not relevant to the differences.
Yes, but if you are not paid off, it makes a difference.
I'm aware. But you are not like most consumers. People who sign up for an 18 month plan are almost definitely going to upgrade every 18 months. The same goes for any other plan, be it the 12 or 24. They won't wait until the phone is paid off. And really, why would you?
I just did a sample with two iPhone 6/16gb for 24 month (next18) with 10GB plan. No up front costs (no activation or phone fee). Assume no employer discounts
$184.18 per month for service and phone costs (does not includes the govt taxes, fees, surcharges, etc). At the end of 24 months the phones are your to keep. No more is due.
Total cost of 2 phones PLUS service at 10GB level for 24 months. At end of 24 months phones are yours to keep. $4420.32
Same thing now with 2 year contract and subsidized phones. I don't know how the cost of the grandfathered unlimited plan works in to this so I will ignore that for now. You can modify based on your own bill
Cost up front for phone: $399.98
Monthly cost for 10gb shared plan: $180.00
Added to first bill only: $80 (2 x $40 activation fee)
24 month total cost of phones and service. At end of the 24 months phones are yours to keep. $4799.98
I understand the math, but in reality it's not the situation someone like me actually faces. This is what I was trying to explain. Someone like me walks into the 2 year contract with an existing phone worth $175 already ($350 for two, obviously). That offsets the subsidized upfront price significantly. This results in a situation where the amortized monthly cost is slightly more than what we pay now. If we choose Next18 but wait until 24 months to upgrade, you're correct that you own the phone outright. Then again, you've also been paying $21 a month for a two year old phone, so I can only imagine I'd upgrade when eligible, put nothing down and keep my payment.
We're kind of going into the weeds here. My larger point is this isn't something AT&T did because they'll make less money.
I understand the math, but in reality it's not the situation someone like me actually faces. This is what I was trying to explain. Someone like me walks into the 2 year contract with an existing phone worth $175 already ($350 for two, obviously). That offsets the subsidized upfront price significantly. This results in a situation where the amortized monthly cost is slightly more than what we pay now. If we choose Next18 but wait until 24 months to upgrade, you're correct that you own the phone outright. Then again, you've also been paying $21 a month for a two year old phone, so I can only imagine I'd upgrade when eligible, put nothing down and keep my payment.
We're kind of going into the weeds here. My larger point is this isn't something AT&T did because they'll make less money.
You've been paying the $21+ a month for a 2 year old phone as well. It was just wrapped up in higher service fees.
Since they spell out that Next18 is a 24 month term, right in the sales contract, your bill, etc. I imagine more people pay the whole thing off than you realize. Sure, there will always be a bunch of people who will upgrade when 12 or 18 months hit, but there are probably also a lot who ride it out the complete 24 months, which is what your 2 year contract is.
The biggest "advantage" (besides paying less over 24 months if high GB data plan of 10GB or more) of the NEXT plan vs the contract plan is that there is no contract. You can quit at any time. All you have to do is finish paying off the phone loan you got (installment plan). On a contract you can break the contract and pay an early termination fee, but that has more stigma with it -- I don't know what sort of reporting they do on those. And I don't know the economics of it either.
AT&T does indeed want you to do this, even if you end up paying them less over 24 months, because they don't have to cough up subsidies every iPhone launch cycle for millions of phones. Apple gets paid up front. I imagine with the installment plan (NEXT) that they either work through some finance company behind the scenes or can account for it differently or something that makes it worthwhile to them.
You've been paying the $21+ a month for a 2 year old phone as well. It was just wrapped up in higher service fees.
Not that much higher. About the same, actually.
I disagree with that judgment entirely. People always want to upgrade as fast as possible, which is the entire hook of the Next campaign to begin with. We also tend to look at our month to month expenses rather than total expense when the numbers are fairly close. In 18 months, you can get a new phone and not pay a dime more than you're paying at the moment.
That's true, I suppose. AT&T's fee is $325 minus $10 a month for completed months in the contract.
Certainly agree with that. I wonder how they actually finance it as well. I would imagine they themselves are not fronting the money. They are probably borrowing it at a rate they build into their receipts.
I disagree with that judgment entirely. People always want to upgrade as fast as possible, which is the entire hook of the Next campaign to begin with. We also tend to look at our month to month expenses rather than total expense when the numbers are fairly close. In 18 months, you can get a new phone and not pay a dime more than you're paying at the moment.
I'd be careful about saying "always." I'd bet that a lot of people do want to upgrade as frequently as possible, but I know of several people who pay off the phone and use it another 2-3 years so as to minimize their expenses for the phone -- same cost but longer lifespan = less per month cost to run the phone. And I bet that due to the clamor in the market that brought us NEXT (and the Verizon equivalent and the similar plans at others) that once you had paid for the phone (at the end of the contract) your monthly expense, at the time, did not go down. Due to that, I'd bet there is a significant fraction of people who do run it out to the end of the actual payment period.
All the phone companies originally substantially increased their monthly rate plans because of the subsidy. If they take away subsidies then it would be the right thing to do to lower the plans down since now you're only paying for data, phone, and text. Subsidies don't save you money, rather you still pay for the phone in the form of higher rates yet you don't have ownership of the phone during your contract and can't take it to anyone else.
If they take away subsidies and don't lower their plans there is something seriously wrong with those companies.
And I'm not sure why you're being an ass about it. Nothing is "tripping me up." We're simply referring to different plans. There are plans advertised as 12, 18 and 24 months. I'm saying that one has to add 6 months to the plan in order for it to be paid off.
Full Term=6 months longer than the plan name. That's where discrepancy is.
We're kind of going into the weeds here. My larger point is this isn't something AT&T did because they'll make less money.God damn. I wasn't being an ass, but now I will be. I'm sorry you can't get beyond a marketing term (NEXT 18) and the actual contract (for 24 months) I guess you are just too f*ing obtuse to let that go or understand what 18 and 24 actually MEAN in these plans.
AT&T IS doing it and making less money because that is what the market bears. Others are undercutting them, so they have to respond and make less money to not lose the customers.
I'm done with your blindfolded ignorance.
Enjoy me being an ass.
It's a very bad deal. With the 18 month next you pay 20 months of 32.45 which is 650 plus the 50 up front so it's turned into 700. To buy the phone right out is 750. So you're only saving 50 bucks and having to pay the full price of the phone. But with two year contract you're only paying the amount up front you want to pay. Cause my monthly bill is the same as it was off contract and on. I paid 350 up front for my phone and that's it. But with the next program they are making you pay for the full price of the phone. And if they start making us doing that I'll just go somewhere else. And the people who think the att next program is good is stupid and can't do math lol. And those are who att are depending on. But trust me the next program is bill crap. Let's say you pick the 12 month next. You pay the 32.45 for 20 months before the phone is "yours" but if you choose to get a new one after the 12th payment then you're paying almost 400 just to borrow the phone cause you have to give it back to them and that's if you haven't drop it or any kind of damage or you won't be able too then you still have to pay the 20 month payment which in turns add up to 699. And to buy a brand new one is 749. reference to iPhone 6 64 gig. So the bottom line is if you do the next program you're going to be paying the 400 a year to borrow a cell phone. Unless you pay the for the full 20 months to keep it then you're paying full price. Where as with a two year contract you're only paying how ever much up front and that's it. And the phone is yours.
You focused on the wrong word. The operative word was 'want'. People don't/can't always do what they want.