If you have the Server version of Snow Leopard, you can run it in VMWare. I always have a few old OS X versions in a VM to test software against.
Same here, I have a VM of every Mac OS version possible. I love operating systems for some weird reason. As you say the server versions are required for the older Mac ones. I also have all the Windows versions in VMs too. It's kind of a hobby of mine. My latest addition, not a VM in this case, is the external Thunderbolt drive I have on my new Mac Pro that boots into Windows 8.1 without any Bootcamp drivers and runs GTA V like a dream over Steam and utilizes Crossfire from AMD to run the Mac's dual GPUs in parallel. Kind of cool.
The "but but but you need at least 2GB of RAM" trolls would have you believe computers just weren't capable of running on anything less. How ever did Apple and NeXT manage to sell workstations and servers with only megabytes of RAM?
Because programmers used to write tight code to make minimal use of memory (and disk space for that matter). No one cares about that anymore. I've got an old article somewhere from the Apple II days which talks about how Woz wrote a printer driver or something in 150 bytes.
Also, to be fair, we couldn't put much in the way of images (aside from MacPaint) into documents in the early days. And no audio aside from the speech generator on the Mac itself. One short song takes up as much space as half the HD20 hard disk.
Because programmers used to write tight code to make minimal use of memory (and disk space for that matter). No one cares about that anymore. I've got an old article somewhere from the Apple II days which talks about how Woz wrote a printer driver or something in 150 bytes.
Also, to be fair, we couldn't put much in the way of images (aside from MacPaint) into documents in the early days. And no audio aside from the speech generator on the Mac itself. One short song takes up as much space as half the HD20 hard disk.
Comparisons abound for those of us from the early days. I never fail to think, while watching downloads speeds today, how many full 1990's style HDs worth of data just shot down the pipe in a second. Then I get a flash back to waiting for one 20 MB HD to be cloned to another. One weekend we had 160 Macs with 20 MB HDs to deliver to clients (schools) and we'd agreed to have everyone preset up with a specific installation and we cloned them using about 10 Macs. We were there all night drinking beer and wine and eating pizza. Fun days!
They said to function "effectively", which is subjective. I agree, though, that's pretty ridiculous. One of my friends back in the 90s had a Performa 575 running some variant or other of 7.5.x, and it had no problems whatsoever. I think that 7.5.5 could even run on a Mac Plus, technically.
I think what they were getting at was its speed relative to other Power Macs, actually. 7.5.x had a lot of 680x0 assembly code in it, which made it kind of a dog on the slower Power Macs, due to all the emulation it had to do. This got a lot better in 7.6.1 and especially 8.x, when more of the code was ported to the Power Macs, but with 7.5.x, a Power Mac 6100 could actually feel slower than an older 68040 machine.
7.1 was a dream. That thing could run on everything. You could run it on a Mac Plus, without even needing the "technically."
I don't remember 7.5.5 being too bad on a Mac Plus maxed out with 4GB RAM and a SCSI hard drive. 7.5.5 was released over 10 years after the Mac Plus was introduced and nearly 6 years after it had been discontinued. I don't know if any subsequent model was supported that long.
I used to have a classmate who was a bit Amiga fan in the 80s. He liked to pronounce it "a-mega," because everything awesome in the 80s was "mega."
I may be dating myself a bit here.
Don't worry about it... Using the moniker "Durandal" gave you away long ago. ???? I used to love to play Marathon for hours on end after work at my office against a coworker.
Porting an OS to a different platform is a good way to really understand that platform. There might be a very specific tool this person needed to use the older OS, but I'm guessing this was done as a learning exercise.
Don't worry about it... Using the moniker "Durandal" gave you away long ago. ???? I used to love to play Marathon for hours on end after work at my office against a coworker.
It's opensource these days, you can download it for free with the AlephOne project (I just run the originals on my TiBook).
VMWare? Sure, it runs Linux. In addition to my old OS X VMs, I've had a couple for Windows XP and Ubuntu. Been a while since I used those two, though, as my primary purpose for having the app is for dev-related testing on previous OS X versions.
Same here, I have a VM of every Mac OS version possible. I love operating systems for some weird reason.
Me too. I've got OS X VMs going back to Snow Leopard (although I deleted the Lion one to free up some space, though, since let's face it, Lion sucked), and all sorts of emulators for the classic Mac OS, from 9.0.4 all the way back to 1.1 (which didn't even have a Shut Down command — you just ejected the boot floppy and flipped the machine off. Simple days).
The one thing I haven't bothered with is the PPC versions of OS X, because there really isn't much in the way of software they can run that Snow Leopard can't. Rosetta worked surprisingly well.
As you say the server versions are required for the older Mac ones. I also have all the Windows versions in VMs too. It's kind of a hobby of mine. My latest addition, not a VM in this case, is the external Thunderbolt drive I have on my new Mac Pro that boots into Windows 8.1 without any Bootcamp drivers and runs GTA V like a dream over Steam and utilizes Crossfire from AMD to run the Mac's dual GPUs in parallel. Kind of cool.
Huh, I didn't even know it was possible to get Windows to boot from an external drive. I think I looked into that once in the XP days, and the Internet was claiming that Windows needed to be on ATA or SATA to get a fully functional system (beyond emergency rescue floppies/CDs and whatnot). Is it because Thunderbolt's PCIe roots lets your external drive look like a normal SATA drive, or have things improved on that front?
Because programmers used to write tight code to make minimal use of memory (and disk space for that matter). No one cares about that anymore. I've got an old article somewhere from the Apple II days which talks about how Woz wrote a printer driver or something in 150 bytes.
Well, being freed from the constraints of olden times has also radically expanded what can be done with software. My copy of Xcode may be taking up amounts of RAM measured in gigabytes, but it provides a much, much nicer experience than MPW did back in the day.
Also, to be fair, we couldn't put much in the way of images (aside from MacPaint) into documents in the early days. And no audio aside from the speech generator on the Mac itself. One short song takes up as much space as half the HD20 hard disk.
What are you talking about? Sure, you were limited to shorter sound clips and didn't have 10 minute long, 16-bit, 44.1 kHz, 256 kbps AAC files, but no audio? The Mac had awesome audio. Check out this game, from 1985:
It played a clip from Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries when you started it up! Listen to it! That's 1985! Compare that to just about any DOS game from 1985. Bleeps and bloops, no more than one note at a time.
In addition to its (incredible for the time) digitized sound capabilities, the Mac was also capable of doing some pretty impressive MIDI-like computer-generated music, most famously with Music Works in 1985:
Then you had things like this that could generate MIDI-like music using sampled instruments, like GarageBand — but in 1987.
This technique was used in a lot of games, which is why Mac ports of games in the 80s and early 90s generally tended to sound much, much better than their original DOS counterparts. The Mac version of Prince of Persia 2 even had music with quarter tones in it, by creating versions of some of the sampled instruments that were a quarter-tone away from the starting pitch.
The Mac's audio capabilities were so far ahead of its time, it's impossible to overstate it. The PC world didn't really catch up until around when Windows 95 came out.
I don't remember 7.5.5 being too bad on a Mac Plus maxed out with 4GB RAM and a SCSI hard drive. 7.5.5 was released over 10 years after the Mac Plus was introduced and nearly 6 years after it had been discontinued. I don't know if any subsequent model was supported that long.
I never had the guts to try putting 7.5.5 on a Plus (I had access to later hardware for that), but I guess I'm not surprised. The Plus was a great machine.
Don't worry about it... Using the moniker "Durandal" gave you away long ago. ???? I used to love to play Marathon for hours on end after work at my office against a coworker.
No doubt, Marathon was great. Another demonstration of just how far ahead the Mac was in both graphics and sound in those days (seriously, compare Marathon, and especially Marathon 2, to PC games from 1994. Doom II? ).
Porting an OS to a different platform is a good way to really understand that platform. There might be a very specific tool this person needed to use the older OS, but I'm guessing this was done as a learning exercise.
I wouldn't say he ported the OS, as you'd need the source code for that at the very least. Most likely, what he did was to jailbreak the device (sadly, Apple doesn't allow emulators in the App Store. One of my frustrations with the iOS platform.) and get one of the existing Mac emulators to run on it.
It's opensource these days, you can download it for free with the AlephOne project (I just run the originals on my TiBook).
You sure can. The developers even added Internet play to it, which is great (although I usually get beaten fairly quickly these days — my gaming skills have definitely deteriorated over the decades).
The QL was excellent for graphics, I implemented a realtime 3D wireframe cube builder on it (in 1984!).
The 68010 and an excellent stack based floating point library (and some high school math) made it all work.
It also had the best BASIC at the time and some excellent built-in programs (spreadsheet, database, word processor) that almost never crashed. The future of personal computing could have been British.
and it is British, isn't it? what chip rules the new personal computing universe of phones and tablets?
Huh, I didn't even know it was possible to get Windows to boot from an external drive. I think I looked into that once in the XP days, and the Internet was claiming that Windows needed to be on ATA or SATA to get a fully functional system (beyond emergency rescue floppies/CDs and whatnot). Is it because Thunderbolt's PCIe roots lets your external drive look like a normal SATA drive, or have things improved on that front?
Yes Windows has supported booting to an external drive since they released Windows to Go. I don't claim to know why it works in TB I assume because Windows supports it, but it does very well and ludicrously easy to set up on a Mac. I created the boot drive using USB external dock with a bare SSD and Windows to Go utility in Windows itself run from Parallels 10. Once created I switched the SSD to a Thunderbolt dock, rebooted and selected at start up (option key) on Mac. That's it! No Bootcamp drivers no use of Bootcamp at all.
Yes Windows has supported booting to an external drive since they released Windows to Go. I don't claim to know why it works in TB I assume because Windows supports it, but it does very well and ludicrously easy to set up on a Mac. I created the boot drive using USB external dock with a bare SSD and Windows to Go utility in Windows itself run from Parallels 10. Once created I switched the SSD to a Thunderbolt dock, rebooted and selected at start up (option key) on Mac. That's it! No Bootcamp drivers no use of Bootcamp at all.
Huh, I didn't know that. Funny how both the classic Mac OS and OS X were able to boot off of just about anything from day 1, but Microsoft took 26 years. Better late than never, I guess.
My first time encountering a Juggernaut in Marathon 1.
:wow:
Especially that one that would occasionally break out of the area it was supposed to be in, and surprise you in the next room over.
I loved them all, but I've got a soft spot for the first one. And for all of Infinity's improvements, I still prefer Durandal.
The writing and storytelling in the series was (and really, still is, with probably only a few exceptions) second to none.
Which one of the three you like the most is pretty subjective, since they were all completely different games from each other. Each one had its own atmosphere, design aesthetic, storytelling style, and attitude which was completely distinct, which makes it hard to pick a clear favorite. I did love the eerie, lonely feel that the first one had. The music went a long way toward establishing that, as well.
The second game, of course, was a complete polar opposite. Bright colors, wide open spaces, cocky ass-kicking rather than the sense of helplessness that the first game had. I do think that M2 started pretty slowly, with a lot of the early levels being a bit of a slog to get through due to the level designers getting just a bit too excited about the new "liquids" feature and putting swimming sections *everywhere*. But then when you get to the back half of the game, you have a bunch of the best levels in the entire series. If I Had A Rocket Launcher might just be the most fun level of any video game I've ever played.
Infinity's a bit of a mixed bag. It's by far the most ambitious, in both storytelling and level design, and it has some truly creepy-as-hell moments, especially the levels set in some bizarre netherworld outside the universe with the surrealistic, nightmare-logic-following "durability" narrative. I still remember how creeped out I was the first time I played "Where are monsters in dreams." It's taken down a bit by how hard it is to figure out exactly what is going on, though, and the ending isn't as satisfying as the other two games'.
If you scroll down the left side you'll get to tour the levels of each game in the series.
Of course. I contributed a few things to that site back in the 90s, under a different username. I'm not going to tell you what that username was, though, because I was a teen at the time and you know how that is — most of my remarks were far from profound.
By the time version 7.5.5 debuted in 1996, the operating system required a Power Macintosh 5500 to function effectively.
Someone at AI has no idea what they are talking about. As others pointed out, System 7.5.5 ran better on a Mac Iici, SE/30, IIfx, 68030-based PowerBooks, and any 68040-based Mac or PowerBook. System 7.5.5 fixed a lot of PowerPC related issues, but the OS did not require a Power Mac 5500 to function effectively. The Power Mac 5500 was the first Mac to ship with System 7.5.5 as its native OS.
I ran OS 7.5.5 on an old SE/30. It was no problem at all. It was only when the Internet came around that I had to lose the SE/30 because it didn't even have grayscale. I could see some pages in the browser, but any color and I was dead.
There was an extremely rare video card for the SE/30 that allowed it to do 256 shades of grey on the internal display. It is considered the holy grail of SE/30 upgrades.
Comments
Same here, I have a VM of every Mac OS version possible. I love operating systems for some weird reason. As you say the server versions are required for the older Mac ones. I also have all the Windows versions in VMs too. It's kind of a hobby of mine. My latest addition, not a VM in this case, is the external Thunderbolt drive I have on my new Mac Pro that boots into Windows 8.1 without any Bootcamp drivers and runs GTA V like a dream over Steam and utilizes Crossfire from AMD to run the Mac's dual GPUs in parallel. Kind of cool.
Seeing that watch boot Mac OS was just awesome.
Nice username.
Very apropos for this thread.
The "but but but you need at least 2GB of RAM" trolls would have you believe computers just weren't capable of running on anything less. How ever did Apple and NeXT manage to sell workstations and servers with only megabytes of RAM?
Because programmers used to write tight code to make minimal use of memory (and disk space for that matter). No one cares about that anymore. I've got an old article somewhere from the Apple II days which talks about how Woz wrote a printer driver or something in 150 bytes.
Also, to be fair, we couldn't put much in the way of images (aside from MacPaint) into documents in the early days. And no audio aside from the speech generator on the Mac itself. One short song takes up as much space as half the HD20 hard disk.
All this ... without RAM Doubler.
Comparisons abound for those of us from the early days. I never fail to think, while watching downloads speeds today, how many full 1990's style HDs worth of data just shot down the pipe in a second. Then I get a flash back to waiting for one 20 MB HD to be cloned to another. One weekend we had 160 Macs with 20 MB HDs to deliver to clients (schools) and we'd agreed to have everyone preset up with a specific installation and we cloned them using about 10 Macs. We were there all night drinking beer and wine and eating pizza. Fun days!
They said to function "effectively", which is subjective. I agree, though, that's pretty ridiculous. One of my friends back in the 90s had a Performa 575 running some variant or other of 7.5.x, and it had no problems whatsoever. I think that 7.5.5 could even run on a Mac Plus, technically.
I think what they were getting at was its speed relative to other Power Macs, actually. 7.5.x had a lot of 680x0 assembly code in it, which made it kind of a dog on the slower Power Macs, due to all the emulation it had to do. This got a lot better in 7.6.1 and especially 8.x, when more of the code was ported to the Power Macs, but with 7.5.x, a Power Mac 6100 could actually feel slower than an older 68040 machine.
7.1 was a dream. That thing could run on everything. You could run it on a Mac Plus, without even needing the "technically."
I don't remember 7.5.5 being too bad on a Mac Plus maxed out with 4GB RAM and a SCSI hard drive. 7.5.5 was released over 10 years after the Mac Plus was introduced and nearly 6 years after it had been discontinued. I don't know if any subsequent model was supported that long.
Don't worry about it... Using the moniker "Durandal" gave you away long ago. ???? I used to love to play Marathon for hours on end after work at my office against a coworker.
Why? Because is not good enough.
Porting an OS to a different platform is a good way to really understand that platform. There might be a very specific tool this person needed to use the older OS, but I'm guessing this was done as a learning exercise.
Don't worry about it... Using the moniker "Durandal" gave you away long ago. ???? I used to love to play Marathon for hours on end after work at my office against a coworker.
It's opensource these days, you can download it for free with the AlephOne project (I just run the originals on my TiBook).
Me too.
The one thing I haven't bothered with is the PPC versions of OS X, because there really isn't much in the way of software they can run that Snow Leopard can't. Rosetta worked surprisingly well. Huh, I didn't even know it was possible to get Windows to boot from an external drive. I think I looked into that once in the XP days, and the Internet was claiming that Windows needed to be on ATA or SATA to get a fully functional system (beyond emergency rescue floppies/CDs and whatnot). Is it because Thunderbolt's PCIe roots lets your external drive look like a normal SATA drive, or have things improved on that front?
Hehe, thanks! I only wish that the board software would have allowed me to put the underscore in it where it belongs.
Well, being freed from the constraints of olden times has also radically expanded what can be done with software. My copy of Xcode may be taking up amounts of RAM measured in gigabytes, but it provides a much, much nicer experience than MPW did back in the day.
What are you talking about? Sure, you were limited to shorter sound clips and didn't have 10 minute long, 16-bit, 44.1 kHz, 256 kbps AAC files, but no audio? The Mac had awesome audio. Check out this game, from 1985:
It played a clip from Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries when you started it up! Listen to it! That's 1985! Compare that to just about any DOS game from 1985. Bleeps and bloops, no more than one note at a time.
In addition to its (incredible for the time) digitized sound capabilities, the Mac was also capable of doing some pretty impressive MIDI-like computer-generated music, most famously with Music Works in 1985:
Then you had things like this that could generate MIDI-like music using sampled instruments, like GarageBand — but in 1987.
http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2cykxab>&s=8#.VYmbYhNVhBd
This technique was used in a lot of games, which is why Mac ports of games in the 80s and early 90s generally tended to sound much, much better than their original DOS counterparts. The Mac version of Prince of Persia 2 even had music with quarter tones in it, by creating versions of some of the sampled instruments that were a quarter-tone away from the starting pitch.
The Mac's audio capabilities were so far ahead of its time, it's impossible to overstate it. The PC world didn't really catch up until around when Windows 95 came out.
Hypercard was the best app ever. Full stop.
No doubt, Marathon was great. Another demonstration of just how far ahead the Mac was in both graphics and sound in those days (seriously, compare Marathon, and especially Marathon 2, to PC games from 1994. Doom II?
I wouldn't say he ported the OS, as you'd need the source code for that at the very least. Most likely, what he did was to jailbreak the device (sadly, Apple doesn't allow emulators in the App Store.
and it is British, isn't it? what chip rules the new personal computing universe of phones and tablets?
ARM
Yes Windows has supported booting to an external drive since they released Windows to Go. I don't claim to know why it works in TB I assume because Windows supports it, but it does very well and ludicrously easy to set up on a Mac. I created the boot drive using USB external dock with a bare SSD and Windows to Go utility in Windows itself run from Parallels 10. Once created I switched the SSD to a Thunderbolt dock, rebooted and selected at start up (option key) on Mac. That's it! No Bootcamp drivers no use of Bootcamp at all.
Hehe, thanks! I only wish that the board software would have allowed me to put the underscore in it where it belongs.
My first time encountering a Juggernaut in Marathon 1.
I loved them all, but I've got a soft spot for the first one. And for all of Infinity's improvements, I still prefer Durandal.
The writing and storytelling in the series was (and really, still is, with probably only a few exceptions) second to none.
Have you been here:
http://marathon.bungie.org/story/
If you scroll down the left side you'll get to tour the levels of each game in the series.
Especially that one that would occasionally break out of the area it was supposed to be in, and surprise you in the next room over.
Which one of the three you like the most is pretty subjective, since they were all completely different games from each other. Each one had its own atmosphere, design aesthetic, storytelling style, and attitude which was completely distinct, which makes it hard to pick a clear favorite. I did love the eerie, lonely feel that the first one had. The music went a long way toward establishing that, as well.
The second game, of course, was a complete polar opposite. Bright colors, wide open spaces, cocky ass-kicking rather than the sense of helplessness that the first game had. I do think that M2 started pretty slowly, with a lot of the early levels being a bit of a slog to get through due to the level designers getting just a bit too excited about the new "liquids" feature and putting swimming sections *everywhere*. But then when you get to the back half of the game, you have a bunch of the best levels in the entire series. If I Had A Rocket Launcher might just be the most fun level of any video game I've ever played.
Infinity's a bit of a mixed bag. It's by far the most ambitious, in both storytelling and level design, and it has some truly creepy-as-hell moments, especially the levels set in some bizarre netherworld outside the universe with the surrealistic, nightmare-logic-following "durability" narrative. I still remember how creeped out I was the first time I played "Where are monsters in dreams." It's taken down a bit by how hard it is to figure out exactly what is going on, though, and the ending isn't as satisfying as the other two games'.
Of course. I contributed a few things to that site back in the 90s, under a different username. I'm not going to tell you what that username was, though, because I was a teen at the time and you know how that is — most of my remarks were far from profound.
By the time version 7.5.5 debuted in 1996, the operating system required a Power Macintosh 5500 to function effectively.
Someone at AI has no idea what they are talking about. As others pointed out, System 7.5.5 ran better on a Mac Iici, SE/30, IIfx, 68030-based PowerBooks, and any 68040-based Mac or PowerBook. System 7.5.5 fixed a lot of PowerPC related issues, but the OS did not require a Power Mac 5500 to function effectively. The Power Mac 5500 was the first Mac to ship with System 7.5.5 as its native OS.
I ran OS 7.5.5 on an old SE/30. It was no problem at all. It was only when the Internet came around that I had to lose the SE/30 because it didn't even have grayscale. I could see some pages in the browser, but any color and I was dead.
There was an extremely rare video card for the SE/30 that allowed it to do 256 shades of grey on the internal display. It is considered the holy grail of SE/30 upgrades.