Oh, dear. SandForce on the top-end? Maybe in 2009. Their reputation for reliability has been terrible for the last few years.
Not so. The MacBook Air, for example, uses a Samsung controller:
(they've also used Marvell controllers in other configurations)
All of the controllers app,e uses have been modified, and use Apple firmware. This has been a practice of Apple going back as far as I can remember. Whenever you see a part labeled with "Apple", you know that it's been modified by Apple or for Apple. Even the connector is their own.
I simply mean the operating system is a key factor, at least in reported issues.
I think I implied I thought it was a firmware issue.
I don't know about that. The drive has over 100GB available, so I doubt that's it. 4GB RAM is the max on this system, and that's what I have. Perhaps my performance issue was unrelated.
OK.
Understood. If
Could be. I haven't checked.
Any word on how many drives are affected? If the problem is in the firmware and they haven't fixed it yet, why would only some drives be affected?
All the series 8xxx Samsung drives are affected, as well as some from other manufacturers. "Some drives" means those drives that are affected. Most other drives from other manufacturers aren't affected.
It's a little over my head tech-wise, but from what I gather the problem is not something that's occurring in consumer applications running on OS X. The thread took a turn towards the MBP and third party upgrades, like the one I just completed. From what I can tell, I can't see any issues for people who are exclusively running OS X with standard drive configurations (e.g. no RAID, no Fusion drives). I could be wrong, but I read both the article and many of the comments. Thoughts?
It's wrong. All affected drives will experience data loss. How long that will take is another question. The more trim commands that are sent, the greater the loss will be, and the earlier it will arrive. As has been pointed out in several technical forums, most people will experience random data loss, or errors, that they will incorrectly ascribe to other reasons, such as a malfunctioning drive, either software or hardware. Disk Utility and Diskwarrier will fix some of those problems.
Most of the loss, as it's just in 512b blocks, won't be noticed, as they are in files that are rarely used. Only after some time, will it become a noticeable problem.
I really don't know why a few people here are refusing to acknowledge this as a real drive issue, as it's been definitely acknowledged by Samsung, after some prodding.
I have an 240gb OWC drive. Do you think I should enable TRIM? I'm leading toward not bothering.
I can't remember whether or not I used a third-party hack to enable TRIM on my 2006 black MacBook's 74gb Sandisk SSD. Any way to check? It's been pounded hard since 2011 and I never noticed any performance problems.
I haven't bothered. In periodic testing, I haven't found the OWC drives to slow down particularly. I can't account for others.
All SSDs carry out garbage collection. It's just that garbage collection is more efficient with trim. It doesn't matter what volume it is.
Yes they all perform garbage collection, but contrary to what I thought, seemingly only some (probably the ones that're losing data) Samsung drives have filesystem aware GC code. So TRIM is essential to keep the drive performing optimally, since when it runs out of empty blocks, it will have to erase before writes. TRIM tells the drive what files have been deleted so the blocks can be erased in the background, ready for immediate use next time. The OS doesn't normally erase/zero the file itself when it's trashed, just the directory information, so the drive has no idea if a file has been deleted without the OS telling it via TRIM.
It's wrong. All affected drives will experience data loss. How long that will take is another question. The more trim commands that are sent, the greater the loss will be, and the earlier it will arrive. As has been pointed out in several technical forums, most people will experience random data loss, or errors, that they will incorrectly ascribe to other reasons, such as a malfunctioning drive, either software or hardware. Disk Utility and Diskwarrier will fix some of those problems.
Most of the loss, as it's just in 512b blocks, won't be noticed, as they are in files that are rarely used. Only after some time, will it become a noticeable problem.
I really don't know why a few people here are refusing to acknowledge this as a real drive issue, as it's been definitely acknowledged by Samsung, after some prodding.
Well, you convinced me. I turned off TRIM a few moments ago. One reason was that I was still getting occasional hangs...that added to your points about it not affecting performance given my usage and age of the drive, and it's not worth the risk. As you note, if I have an affected drive, data loss WILL occur. Not worth it.
Also, because of the incompatibility with the drives I have installed, I am not even going to bother. I will just continue to use Chameleon SSD Optimizer.
melgross thank for the very informative posts. I was vaguely aware of TRIM issues on certain firmwares. Your detailed writeup is enough for me to just say meh and not enable. I've had a Crucial m4 for years on my 2010 on snow leopard. Fast. Never degraded. I always leave at least 10 gigs free though. I'm ready to jump on El Cap!!!!!! So excited for it. Dark Theme, yum. And Snappiness™.
Yes they all perform garbage collection, but contrary to what I thought, seemingly only some (probably the ones that're losing data) Samsung drives have filesystem aware GC code. So TRIM is essential to keep the drive performing optimally, since when it runs out of empty blocks, it will have to erase before writes. TRIM tells the drive what files have been deleted so the blocks can be erased in the background, ready for immediate use next time. The OS doesn't normally erase/zero the file itself when it's trashed, just the directory information, so the drive has no idea if a file has been deleted without the OS telling it via TRIM.
Thanks for supplying the info for people. I didn't think it was required, but it likely is.
I just got two 1 TB samsung 850 evo SSDs for my macbook pro, mid 2012, running El Capitan.
Should I get myself that Trim Enabler App or Disk Sensei and go ahead to enable TRIM or not?
Well, I had initially enabled and then disabled it. A few months later I was getting more spinning beach balls, and now my machine won't boot. I have no idea if it's related or not.
Comments
All of the controllers app,e uses have been modified, and use Apple firmware. This has been a practice of Apple going back as far as I can remember. Whenever you see a part labeled with "Apple", you know that it's been modified by Apple or for Apple. Even the connector is their own.
All the series 8xxx Samsung drives are affected, as well as some from other manufacturers. "Some drives" means those drives that are affected. Most other drives from other manufacturers aren't affected.
It's wrong. All affected drives will experience data loss. How long that will take is another question. The more trim commands that are sent, the greater the loss will be, and the earlier it will arrive. As has been pointed out in several technical forums, most people will experience random data loss, or errors, that they will incorrectly ascribe to other reasons, such as a malfunctioning drive, either software or hardware. Disk Utility and Diskwarrier will fix some of those problems.
Most of the loss, as it's just in 512b blocks, won't be noticed, as they are in files that are rarely used. Only after some time, will it become a noticeable problem.
I really don't know why a few people here are refusing to acknowledge this as a real drive issue, as it's been definitely acknowledged by Samsung, after some prodding.
All SSDs carry out garbage collection. It's just that garbage collection is more efficient with trim. It doesn't matter what volume it is.
I haven't bothered. In periodic testing, I haven't found the OWC drives to slow down particularly. I can't account for others.
Yes they all perform garbage collection, but contrary to what I thought, seemingly only some (probably the ones that're losing data) Samsung drives have filesystem aware GC code. So TRIM is essential to keep the drive performing optimally, since when it runs out of empty blocks, it will have to erase before writes. TRIM tells the drive what files have been deleted so the blocks can be erased in the background, ready for immediate use next time. The OS doesn't normally erase/zero the file itself when it's trashed, just the directory information, so the drive has no idea if a file has been deleted without the OS telling it via TRIM.
All I get in terminal is a "trimforce: command not found" error message.
Did you upgrade OS X to 10.10.4 first?
It's wrong. All affected drives will experience data loss. How long that will take is another question. The more trim commands that are sent, the greater the loss will be, and the earlier it will arrive. As has been pointed out in several technical forums, most people will experience random data loss, or errors, that they will incorrectly ascribe to other reasons, such as a malfunctioning drive, either software or hardware. Disk Utility and Diskwarrier will fix some of those problems.
Most of the loss, as it's just in 512b blocks, won't be noticed, as they are in files that are rarely used. Only after some time, will it become a noticeable problem.
I really don't know why a few people here are refusing to acknowledge this as a real drive issue, as it's been definitely acknowledged by Samsung, after some prodding.
Well, you convinced me. I turned off TRIM a few moments ago. One reason was that I was still getting occasional hangs...that added to your points about it not affecting performance given my usage and age of the drive, and it's not worth the risk. As you note, if I have an affected drive, data loss WILL occur. Not worth it.
Yup.
Also, because of the incompatibility with the drives I have installed, I am not even going to bother. I will just continue to use Chameleon SSD Optimizer.
Thanks for supplying the info for people. I didn't think it was required, but it likely is.
Guys, any updates on this matter?
I just got two 1 TB samsung 850 evo SSDs for my macbook pro, mid 2012, running El Capitan.
Should I get myself that Trim Enabler App or Disk Sensei and go ahead to enable TRIM or not?
Guys, any updates on this matter?
I just got two 1 TB samsung 850 evo SSDs for my macbook pro, mid 2012, running El Capitan.
Should I get myself that Trim Enabler App or Disk Sensei and go ahead to enable TRIM or not?
Well, I had initially enabled and then disabled it. A few months later I was getting more spinning beach balls, and now my machine won't boot. I have no idea if it's related or not.