Samsung profits drop as mobile arm suffers 37.6% crash in Q2

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  • Reply 101 of 151
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    What a vacuous post.

    In the long run, we're all dead. So what? You'd like to crawl into your grave now?

    I wouldn't do that. You can hack a grave with a worm.
  • Reply 102 of 151
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    dasanman69 wrote: »

    All phones are hackable in one way or another.

    What a vacuous post.

    In the long run, we're all dead. So what? You'd like to crawl into your grave now?

    I'm not done being a dick. :lol:
  • Reply 103 of 151
    dasanman69 wrote: »

    I'd buy your argument if Apple had only gone one size bigger, but when they went 2 different sizes then it clearly showed that the move was reactionary.

    With that argument then Apple also was reacting to Samsung's Galaxy Gear watch when they came out with two sizes of ?watch.

    Of course, it's all becoming clear now ... Apple is following Samsung's lead, and we have no idea what Apple will come out with next because even Apple is waiting to see what Samsung will bring to market next so they can copy and release it in two sizes!! Stop the presses!
  • Reply 104 of 151
    solipsismy wrote: »
    What a vacuous post.

    In the long run, we're all dead. So what? You'd like to crawl into your grave now?

    I wouldn't do that. You can hack a grave with a worm.

    Even faster with badgers, but I don't want no stinking badgers...
  • Reply 105 of 151
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    dasanman69 wrote: »

    I'd buy your argument if Apple had only gone one size bigger, but when they went 2 different sizes then it clearly showed that the move was reactionary.

    With that argument then Apple also was reacting to Samsung's Galaxy Gear watch when they came out with two sizes of ?watch.

    Of course, it's all becoming clear now ... Apple is following Samsung's lead, and we have no idea what Apple will come out with next because even Apple is waiting to see what Samsung will bring to market next so they can copy and release it in two sizes!! Stop the presses!

    Apple didn't have a track record of making only one size watch and then suddenly going against past practice and releasing 2 sizes. The late CEO also didn't publicly ridicule a watch in any size claiming that nobody would buy them, and describing them as Hummers.
  • Reply 107 of 151
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    dasanman69 wrote: »

    The title is inaccurate. They know they can't, but they certainly have the desire. But not the real desire the makes one achieve goals, but rather that superficial desire like when we sign up for a gym for a year but then go twice. Our intensions are sincere but out motivation, force of will, etc. are all very much lacking.
  • Reply 108 of 151
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    dasanman69 wrote: »

    The title is inaccurate. They know they can't, but they certainly have the desire. But not the real desire the makes one achieve goals, but rather that superficial desire like when we sign up for a gym for a year but then go twice. Our intensions are sincere but out motivation, force of will, etc. are all very much lacking.

    He does have a point about everyone adopting release cycles just because Apple does it. I don't remember it ever being that way. If you needed a cell phone you went out and got whatever was available. Now everyone is rushing to release a phone without it really getting everything ironed out properly. They put in screens with a higher resolution than the processor can handle. Half baked features nobody uses. They need to do their own thing, and find some people with good ideas, and design chops. I don't believe that Apple has the monopoly on that type of talent.
  • Reply 109 of 151
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    He does have a point about everyone adopting release cycles just because Apple does it. I don't remember it ever being that way. If you needed a cell phone you went out and got whatever was available. Now everyone is rushing to release a phone without it really getting everything ironed out properly. They put in screens with a higher resolution than the processor can handle. Half baked features nobody uses. They need to do their own thing, and find some people with good ideas, and design chops. I don't believe that Apple has the monopoly on that type of talent.

    1) I feel like you're still trying to argue that other vendors are doing what Apple does, and yet everything you're saying is supporting my argument. Half-baked features and poor planning is the antithesis of Apple's modus operandi.

    2) I remember it being that way before the iPhone but the release cycles were based on other factors since mobile OSes we so archaic compared today's system. Nokia was constantly pushing out a wacky design with unusable button, and everyone was trying to go smaller.
  • Reply 110 of 151
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,748member
    dasanman69 wrote: »

    Not really. That's just a collection of obvious "here's what Apple does. Here's what competitors are doing. It's not working." points.
  • Reply 111 of 151
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,687member
    dasanman69 wrote: »


    I'd buy your argument if Apple had only gone one size bigger, but when they went 2 different sizes then it clearly showed that the move was reactionary. I distinctly remember you doubting that Apple would go to 2 different sizes when the rumors first surfaced, but as more and more proof came out it was evident that Apple was indeed coming out with 2 new sizes.

    Apple wasn't reacting to Sammy. It was focused on what China wanted and when the time was right it moved. iPods and iMacs were multiple sizes so why is it hard to believe Apple would go this way with the iPhone?
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Apple didn't have a track record of making only one size watch and then suddenly going against past practice and releasing 2 sizes. The late CEO also didn't publicly ridicule a watch in any size claiming that nobody would buy them, and describing them as Hummers.

    Again, Apple has a track record of going with multiple sizes. Jobs is famous for dismissing the competition at the time. Time changes.
  • Reply 112 of 151
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    jungmark wrote: »
    dasanman69 wrote: »


    I'd buy your argument if Apple had only gone one size bigger, but when they went 2 different sizes then it clearly showed that the move was reactionary. I distinctly remember you doubting that Apple would go to 2 different sizes when the rumors first surfaced, but as more and more proof came out it was evident that Apple was indeed coming out with 2 new sizes.

    Apple wasn't reacting to Sammy. It was focused on what China wanted and when the time was right it moved. iPods and iMacs were multiple sizes so why is it hard to believe Apple would go this way with the iPhone?
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Apple didn't have a track record of making only one size watch and then suddenly going against past practice and releasing 2 sizes. The late CEO also didn't publicly ridicule a watch in any size claiming that nobody would buy them, and describing them as Hummers.

    Again, Apple has a track record of going with multiple sizes. Jobs is famous for dismissing the competition at the time. Time changes.

    What China wanted, and what Samsung was doing are one and the same. It's pure semantics. The Chinese didn't know they wanted a huge phone until Samsung made one. What would've happened if Apple hadn't made the the iPhone bigger? and why did they go bigger twice, bucking a 6 year trend? They didn't want to leave any market for Samsung. Apple attacked exactly where Samsung was making its money.
  • Reply 113 of 151
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    spheric wrote: »
    dasanman69 wrote: »

    Not really. That's just a collection of obvious "here's what Apple does. Here's what competitors are doing. It's not working." points.

    It's not a collection of points, it's one single point, and the author makes a valid argument. There isn't a shortage of posters here that claim if a manufacturer did one thing out of many that Apple does they'd have some success, and I think that is asinine. Manufacturers should ignore what Apple's doing, and come up with something on their own and make a device that will make people take notice. Consumers might not buy it in droves right away, but they didn't buy the iPhone in droves right away either.
  • Reply 114 of 151
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    There isn't a shortage of posters here that claim if a manufacturer did one thing out of many that Apple does they'd have some success, and I think that is asinine.

    I certainly haven't been saying that. In fact, I've discounted your repeated comments that blah blah wouldn't have failed because they tried this or that tactic employees by Apple. For the final time, it's not about some superficial effort, it's about longterm planning to make a great customer experience. That means not doing a "me first" product.
    Manufacturers should ignore what Apple's doing, and come up with something on their own and make a device that will make people take notice. Consumers might not buy it in droves right away, but they didn't buy the iPhone in droves right away either.

    No, they need to understand why Apple is successful. It's not because they did something different for the sake of doing something different.
  • Reply 115 of 151
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,748member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    It's not a collection of points, it's one single point, and the author makes a valid argument. There isn't a shortage of posters here that claim if a manufacturer did one thing out of many that Apple does they'd have some success, and I think that is asinine. Manufacturers should ignore what Apple's doing, and come up with something on their own and make a device that will make people take notice. Consumers might not buy it in droves right away, but they didn't buy the iPhone in droves right away either.

     

    You can't "ignore what Apple's doing", because Apple single-handedly defined the market. The only area that left room to do something different was the hugephone market, but Apple just killed that by bringing out an idiot slab of their own. 



    But that is the obvious stuff. 

     

    What that "analysis" completely misses is that it's not just about what Apple does — Samsung does ALL of that — it's about what Apple DOESN'T do. 

     

    Most importantly, IMHO: Apple never cheapened their brand in the mobile space. Ever. 

     

    Samsung will never rid themselves of that stigma, even if they were to cease immediately all production of bargain-bin phones, and they cannot create the perception of real value for that reason. 

     

    If you have $800 to spend on a smartphone, you don't spend it on a Samsung. End of story. 

     

     

    (Edit: Solipsism makes a point about "me first" products that's valid, as well: Apple never incorporates functions just for the sake of being first. They don't bring functions to market unless they've figured out exactly how, and why, they make a better product experience. See: fingerprint sensors, NFC, taking years and years to figure out copy and paste on iOS, multi-tasking on iOS, Apple-branded multi-button mice, etc. vs. Galaxy S3 face recognition, Galaxy Gear smart watches, Galaxy S5 fingerprint sensor — the Samsung implementations were just solutions in search of a problem, if they weren't actual problems in themselves)

     

     

    I think the only way to even create breathing space for yourself in the smartphone market today would be for a completely unencumbered company to come in from the high-end, creating real value in the hardware, leveraging the few true advantages of Android over iOS, and giving the finger to market share, opting for profit, instead.

    But making that profitable is completely impossible, AFAICS, because Apple has the manufacturing and supplies cornered and can generate their enormous profit margins simply by virtue of the insane numbers of devices they produce. 

  • Reply 116 of 151
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    There isn't a shortage of posters here that claim if a manufacturer did one thing out of many that Apple does they'd have some success, and I think that is asinine.

    I certainly haven't been saying that. In fact, I've discounted your repeated comments that blah blah wouldn't have failed because they tried this or that tactic employees by Apple. For the final time, it's not about some superficial effort, it's about longterm planning to make a great customer experience. That means not doing a "me first" product.
    Manufacturers should ignore what Apple's doing, and come up with something on their own and make a device that will make people take notice. Consumers might not buy it in droves right away, but they didn't buy the iPhone in droves right away either.

    No, they need to understand why Apple is successful. It's not because they did something different for the sake of doing something different.

    I most certainly wasn't referring to you, and it's usually none of the regulars. Of course they should see what makes Apple successful, but that doesn't mean adopt every single thing that they do.
  • Reply 117 of 151
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    spheric wrote: »
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    It's not a collection of points, it's one single point, and the author makes a valid argument. There isn't a shortage of posters here that claim if a manufacturer did one thing out of many that Apple does they'd have some success, and I think that is asinine. Manufacturers should ignore what Apple's doing, and come up with something on their own and make a device that will make people take notice. Consumers might not buy it in droves right away, but they didn't buy the iPhone in droves right away either.

    You can't "ignore what Apple's doing", because Apple single-handedly defined the market. The only area that left room to do something different was the hugephone market, but Apple just killed that by bringing out an idiot slab of their own. 


    But that is the obvious stuff. 

    What that "analysis" completely misses is that it's not just about what Apple does — Samsung does ALL of that — it's about what Apple DOESN'T do. 

    Most importantly, IMHO: Apple never cheapened their brand in the mobile space. Ever. 

    Samsung will never rid themselves of that stigma, even if they were to cease immediately all production of bargain-bin phones, and they cannot create the perception of real value for that reason. 

    If you have $800 to spend on a smartphone, you don't spend it on a Samsung. End of story. 


    (Edit: Solipsism makes a point about "me first" products that's valid, as well: Apple never incorporates functions just for the sake of being first. They don't bring functions to market unless they've figured out exactly how, and why, they make a better product experience. See: fingerprint sensors, NFC, taking years and years to figure out copy and paste on iOS, multi-tasking on iOS, Apple-branded multi-button mice, etc. vs. Galaxy S3 face recognition, Galaxy Gear smart watches, Galaxy S5 fingerprint sensor — the Samsung implementations were just solutions in search of a problem, if they weren't actual problems in themselves)


    I think the only way to even create breathing space for yourself in the smartphone market today would be for a completely unencumbered company to come in from the high-end, creating real value in the hardware, leveraging the few true advantages of Android over iOS, and giving the finger to market share, opting for profit, instead.
    But making that profitable is completely impossible, AFAICS, because Apple has the manufacturing and supplies cornered and can generate their enormous profit margins simply by virtue of the insane numbers of devices they produce. 

    There's nothing wrong with bargain bin. That's an insanely huge market, and if Samsung doesn't serve it somebody else will. I think the analysis was spot on, if a manufacturer doesn't have the money or the R&D department to crank out a compelling device on a yearly basis then don't. Create something wonderful, get rave reviews, and get a consumer buzz going. The device won't be an overnight success but it doesn't have to be. I think there's plenty of space in the market for someone to carve out a nice profitable niche.
  • Reply 118 of 151
    solipsismysolipsismy Posts: 5,099member
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with bargain bin. That's an insanely huge market…

    Huge in terms of units, but if you can't do it efficiently enough to make a profit then is it worth it?

    This isn't an internship or school where your loss of time is rewarded with experience, this is a company whose goal is to turn a profit. If you lose $1 on one phone sale and lose $2 on two, and so on, you will never make it up in volume.
  • Reply 119 of 151
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,748member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    There's nothing wrong with bargain bin. 

     

    Apart from losing money, I guess. A fool's market, at this point — but an honorable fool's. 

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post



     if a manufacturer doesn't have the money or the R&D department to crank out a compelling device on a yearly basis then don't. Create something wonderful, get rave reviews, and get a consumer buzz going. 

     

    Oh, good. I thought it was going to be something complex and difficult. I'll get right on it!

  • Reply 120 of 151
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,980member
    spheric wrote: »
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with bargain bin. 

    Apart from losing money, I guess. A fool's market, at this point — but an honorable fool's. 
    dasanman69 wrote: »
     if a manufacturer doesn't have the money or the R

    Oh, good. I thought it was going to be something complex and difficult. I'll get right on it!

    Where did I say it was going to be easy? Does Apple have a monopoly on people with good ideas, and good design skills?
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