Apple and BMW have in fact held talks about a potential Apple Car, but the German automaker has been reluctant to reach an agreement, as it is afraid it could just become a supplier to the world's largest company.
Further details on Apple's alleged talks with BMW were revealed on Friday by Reuters. The news organization reaffirmed that Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook visited BMW's headquarters last year, and toured its Leipzig factory to see how it manufactures the i3 series.
Apple's apparent interest in building a passenger car has earned reluctance in return from BMW, as the company is said to be taking a cautious approach.
Executives from Apple were said to be particularly impressed by the fact that BMW "abandoned traditional approaches to car making" in developing the i3. Apple's top brass apparently indicated they were interested in taking a similar fresh approach to the automobile.
Though nothing concrete came out of the meeting, a source told Reuters that negotiations between the two iconic companies could resume at some point in the future.
German publication Manager Magazin was first to report on Apple's talks with BMW last week. It claimed that BMW's i3 commuter car would have served as the basis of an Apple-built vehicle.
AppleInsider uncovered evidence that Apple was indeed conducting car-related research <a href="http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/03/13/project-titan-sixtyeight-sg5-inside-apples-top-secret-electric-car-project'>in March</a>, for a secret internal project dubbed " titan."="" apple="" recently="" leased="" a="" group="" of="" buildings="" located="" short="" drive="" from="" its="" cupertino,="" calif.,="" headquarters="" and="" modified="" the="" space="" to="" support="" garages,="" automotive="" repair="" bays="" testing="" facilities.The Titan team is alleged to involve several hundred workers, and Apple has been accused of illegally poaching high-ranking executives from A123, a battery maker whose technology has been applied in high-performance electric vehicles.
I have to ask - what are we expecting/hoping Apple will do? I take it that the simplest answer is some sort of tech innovation in cars (we don't expect them to be building cars do we)?
The two types of cars in our future are self-driven & autonomous (both are electric). So my question to the forum is this: what are your thoughts about the mix of Apple & Auto in these two cases?
If the auto-makers would let them, Apple could make lots of money by just improving the overall UI of all human/vehicle interactions - it wouldn't be hard. So what do you see? Haptic steering wheels, Siri voice-controlled braking and seat position management?
What do we actually want technology to help us with in cars?
As has been pointed out before, it'll take a lot to get the Quandt family to sell.
And, it just won't fit Apple's Cupertino culture to suddenly bring tens of thousands of Germans (and others, mostly Europeans) on board....*
* I don't mean that in any way as a knock against Europeans or Germans, it's just that I feel the culture across the pond is very different.
Having been part of the culture that reshaped Apple I can tell you that NeXT was very in-sync with the French and German engineering cultures. Apple of today is as well.
I am glad Toyota did that. With cars starting to be shipped with CarPlay and Google what ever, Toyota's decision will determine if Apple and Google can actually have an impact in the car industry or not. So if Toyota's sales don't decline and others that support CarPlay and Google what ever don't go up, that would mean people don't really care what system is on their car, but if people do care, sorry Toyota!
I think Apple played this game with Motorola. "Dear Motorola, Let's make a great phone together" and then after Apple had gained some expertise, Apple said so long suckers! BMW had better be careful here. I seem to recall Steve bringing the Moto guy up onto the stage so that he could talk about their partnership.
Buy Tesla. Own the "gigafactory". Build all Apple device batteries in the U.S. Build cars in the U.S. Have a network of several thousand high speed charging stations already built out. Tesla and Apple have always seemed a compatible fit. If Apple is serious about cars, Tesla brings a lot more to the table than a partnership with BMW.
This. Apple wouldn't necessarily need to buy Tesla. They could form a join venture that would build specific vehicles leveraging the strengths of both companies. Tesla's current manufacturing facility was previously a joint-venture between GM and Toyota. GM eventually pulled out of the joint venture and Tesla bought (or leased) the factory. Now if Tesla could just build a vehicle they can sell for under $50K...
I would love to see Apple make a large investment in the Gigafactory. With regard to the charging station network, Elon Musk has stated that any company can use it, if they contribute to the cost (I think he wants $2000 per car). I agree that Apple does not need to buy Tesla. There are contract manufacturers which build entire vehicles and Musk has made many of Tesla's patents public, so that might be a good way for Apple to proceed. Tesla plans to make a car called the Model 3, which is supposed to sell for under $50,000, but it is 3 or 4 years off. A large investment by a company like Apple or, more likely Google, would help Tesla with the finances it needs to expand its product lineup more quickly.
First, it's totally off-base to suggest that, if/when Apple came out with a car, creating one of the "best driving cars in the world" wouldn't be on top of their list. People who drive Teslas swear by them (I've never driven one), and the very high quality diving experience. Apple will surely match that.
Second, when I am actually in the car, what's in front of my eyes and the way I interact with it becomes immensely important. This is where most carmakers, especially the luxury German carmakers suck. (I've owned many of them). The 'nice infotainment center' is way more important than you imagine.
If Apple were to come out with a car, I think they would do well to partner with the German automakers as far as look and feel go. Audi designs, in my opinion, the most elegant interiors and their in dash systems along with BMW's iDrive are considered among the best in the business. If they could marry that with Japanese reliability and efficiency, I think they would have a winner. I like the look of the Tesla Model S, and I hear the acceleration, along with the low center of gravity make for a good handling sedan. However, unless they finish building out their charging stations and are able to mass produce a mainstream car for around $30K, they are not going to be able to survive long term as the larger automakers will catch up and they have greater economies of scale. I do admire Tesla for doing what they have in the short period of time they have been around as they almost single handedly changed people's perception of the EV from a boring Prius to an exciting sports sedan.
I partly agree. I think it will be a long time before self driving cars are possible in many parts of the world, but I think that has more to do with the human drivers in those places and the lack of traffic rules and enforcement. As you said, reliability.
I tend to see the same thing self driving cars will be lucky to function on many roads especially when environmental conditions get bad. We will eventually get there but I will likely be dead before truly self drive cars have evolved to the point where people will actually prefer them.
But in the U.S., Europe, Japan, etc, I think self driving vehicles are very possible in all areas, not just the cities. If anything, dealing with rural highways will probably be easier as there are far fewer potential obstacles and unanticipated events. Rural India might see self driving cars before urban India for that very reason.
This is interesting because I would see a Rural road as a more difficult choice in bad weather. That from personal driving experience in storms and the like. Cities leave lots of hints as to where the road is.
Anyone who thinks we're going to hop into little self driving pods and be shuttled around in the near future is kidding themselves. Self driving functionality will be like cruise control for a while. No doubt we will create 100% self driving vehicles one day, but for the next few decades I imagine we'll see it as a feature, one that is only supported in certain environments.
Speaking of pods what many communities need is a public transportation system that keeps public transit off the roads. There is nothing more frustrating that navigating around a bunch of busses that are in most cases completely empty.
There are a lot of ethical issues when it comes to self driving cars too. How to evaluate a situation that could and probably will result in a loss of life? That's no small problem to solve, much less legislate and regulate.
The lawyers will have a field day the first time it can be proven that a software glitch killed a few people. Since it is virtually impossible to predict every combination or potential events it will happen sooner or later.
I tend to see the same thing self driving cars will be lucky to function on many roads especially when environmental conditions get bad. We will eventually get there but I will likely be dead before truly self drive cars have evolved to the point where people will actually prefer them.
I think the technology will evolve quickly. I don't think it's as complicated as you suggest. Look at how facial recognition has advanced in recent years. For a car to drive itself, it needs good "eyes", good sensors, and much of this technology exists or is very close to being feasible.
Quote:
This is interesting because I would see a Rural road as a more difficult choice in bad weather. That from personal driving experience in storms and the like. Cities leave lots of hints as to where the road is.
Again, I think finding the road will be the least of the car's problems. Good cameras, good sensors, good code...not a problem.
Quote:
The lawyers will have a field day the first time it can be proven that a software glitch killed a few people. Since it is virtually impossible to predict every combination or potential events it will happen sooner or later.
Most definitely. And understandably so. But what happens before these cars even get on the road? How do they handle life and death decisions? For example, a self driving car is cruising down the highway and out of nowhere a kid on a bike comes flying into the road. What does the car do? Should it hit the kid? Only one casualty. If it swerves, it will impact the car in the next lane and perhaps send it into oncoming traffic, thus risking more lives than the kid on the bike. What should it do? I think we are a long way from answering these questions.
I would love to see Apple make a large investment in the Gigafactory. With regard to the charging station network, Elon Musk has stated that any company can use it, if they contribute to the cost (I think he wants $2000 per car). I agree that Apple does not need to buy Tesla. There are contract manufacturers which build entire vehicles and Musk has made many of Tesla's patents public, so that might be a good way for Apple to proceed. Tesla plans to make a car called the Model 3, which is supposed to sell for under $50,000, but it is 3 or 4 years off. A large investment by a company like Apple or, more likely Google, would help Tesla with the finances it needs to expand its product lineup more quickly.
Apple may not NEED to own Tesla, but since when does Apple do partnerships? If they are getting into the car business, they are going to want own it. As you rightly suggest, with Apple bankrolling Tesla, the Model 3 could be a reality sooner than Tesla's promised 3-4 years. Yes, Apple can reinvent the wheel and do it themselves, or they can jump to the front of the line. That's my take anyway.
Audi designs, in my opinion, the most elegant interiors and their in dash systems along with BMW's iDrive are considered among the best in the business.
I've owned different models of both (and currently own one of those). I honestly think BMW's interiors are by far the most elegant -- clean lines, simple layout, everything proportionate, almost Applesque -- but both Audi's MMI and BMW's iDrive are pretty mediocre at best (and annoying, at worst).
A strategic partnership between Apple and BMW is ideal. It would create an automotive product line with the best of two long standing traditions (automotive and computer) and a global reach. Both companies also have a long standing tradition of attention to quality and innovation. The industrial design ethos of each company complements the other. I don't see how an Apple BMW partnership could go wrong! As a long time home boy from Detroit, let me assure all readers that I would be among the first in line to buy a vehicle that is the product of these to venerable firms! (Jeff Garrett, Boise Idaho, August 1, 2015. Copyright 2015. All rights reserved.)
I've owned different models of both (and currently own one of those). I honestly think BMW's interiors are by far the most elegant -- clean lines, simple layout, everything proportionate, almost Applesque -- but both Audi's MMI and BMW's iDrive are pretty mediocre at best (and annoying, at worst).
A bit off to topic. I would really hope that they start air gapping the infotainment from the essential controls in the car that can save your life.
That's also a big problem for fully self driving cars as they most probably will be connected to the internet constantly.
As has been pointed out before, it'll take a lot to get the Quandt family to sell.
And, it just won't fit Apple's Cupertino culture to suddenly bring tens of thousands of Germans (and others, mostly Europeans) on board....*
* I don't mean that in any way as a knock against Europeans or Germans, it's just that I feel the culture across the pond is very different.
In fact, I think it is nearly impossible for Apple to 'simply' buy BMW, for the reasons you mention above. What I find interesting is that people seem to want to have Apple work together with Tesla, but Mr Cook, however, choose to approach BMW. I get the feeling people here seriously underestimate the technological prowess and know-how of a company like BMW, and that alone is going to be very, very expensive. Apple would definitely *not* be in a bargaining position.
Growth? At some point there will be fewer people who want an iPhone that don't already have one. Last year Tim Cook did an interview with WSJD and said iPhone would be Apple's main revenue driver for the next 5 years. What comes after that? Surely Apple executives have to be thinking about that. And what other areas can Apple disrupt that would provide significant revenue/earnings growth?
Comments
Apple and BMW have in fact held talks about a potential Apple Car, but the German automaker has been reluctant to reach an agreement, as it is afraid it could just become a supplier to the world's largest company.
Further details on Apple's alleged talks with BMW were revealed on Friday by Reuters. The news organization reaffirmed that Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook visited BMW's headquarters last year, and toured its Leipzig factory to see how it manufactures the i3 series.
Apple's apparent interest in building a passenger car has earned reluctance in return from BMW, as the company is said to be taking a cautious approach.
Executives from Apple were said to be particularly impressed by the fact that BMW "abandoned traditional approaches to car making" in developing the i3. Apple's top brass apparently indicated they were interested in taking a similar fresh approach to the automobile.
Though nothing concrete came out of the meeting, a source told Reuters that negotiations between the two iconic companies could resume at some point in the future.
German publication Manager Magazin was first to report on Apple's talks with BMW last week. It claimed that BMW's i3 commuter car would have served as the basis of an Apple-built vehicle.
AppleInsider uncovered evidence that Apple was indeed conducting car-related research <a href="http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/03/13/project-titan-sixtyeight-sg5-inside-apples-top-secret-electric-car-project'>in March</a>, for a secret internal project dubbed " titan."="" apple="" recently="" leased="" a="" group="" of="" buildings="" located="" short="" drive="" from="" its="" cupertino,="" calif.,="" headquarters="" and="" modified="" the="" space="" to="" support="" garages,="" automotive="" repair="" bays="" testing="" facilities.The Titan team is alleged to involve several hundred workers, and Apple has been accused of illegally poaching high-ranking executives from A123, a battery maker whose technology has been applied in high-performance electric vehicles.
I have to ask - what are we expecting/hoping Apple will do? I take it that the simplest answer is some sort of tech innovation in cars (we don't expect them to be building cars do we)?
The two types of cars in our future are self-driven & autonomous (both are electric). So my question to the forum is this: what are your thoughts about the mix of Apple & Auto in these two cases?
If the auto-makers would let them, Apple could make lots of money by just improving the overall UI of all human/vehicle interactions - it wouldn't be hard. So what do you see? Haptic steering wheels, Siri voice-controlled braking and seat position management?
What do we actually want technology to help us with in cars?
Having been part of the culture that reshaped Apple I can tell you that NeXT was very in-sync with the French and German engineering cultures. Apple of today is as well.
I am glad Toyota did that. With cars starting to be shipped with CarPlay and Google what ever, Toyota's decision will determine if Apple and Google can actually have an impact in the car industry or not. So if Toyota's sales don't decline and others that support CarPlay and Google what ever don't go up, that would mean people don't really care what system is on their car, but if people do care, sorry Toyota!
The apple car will have in app purchase.
"In-car" purchases?
I think Apple played this game with Motorola. "Dear Motorola, Let's make a great phone together" and then after Apple had gained some expertise, Apple said so long suckers! BMW had better be careful here. I seem to recall Steve bringing the Moto guy up onto the stage so that he could talk about their partnership.
What's wrong with that?
I would love to see Apple make a large investment in the Gigafactory. With regard to the charging station network, Elon Musk has stated that any company can use it, if they contribute to the cost (I think he wants $2000 per car). I agree that Apple does not need to buy Tesla. There are contract manufacturers which build entire vehicles and Musk has made many of Tesla's patents public, so that might be a good way for Apple to proceed. Tesla plans to make a car called the Model 3, which is supposed to sell for under $50,000, but it is 3 or 4 years off. A large investment by a company like Apple or, more likely Google, would help Tesla with the finances it needs to expand its product lineup more quickly.
If Apple were to come out with a car, I think they would do well to partner with the German automakers as far as look and feel go. Audi designs, in my opinion, the most elegant interiors and their in dash systems along with BMW's iDrive are considered among the best in the business. If they could marry that with Japanese reliability and efficiency, I think they would have a winner. I like the look of the Tesla Model S, and I hear the acceleration, along with the low center of gravity make for a good handling sedan. However, unless they finish building out their charging stations and are able to mass produce a mainstream car for around $30K, they are not going to be able to survive long term as the larger automakers will catch up and they have greater economies of scale. I do admire Tesla for doing what they have in the short period of time they have been around as they almost single handedly changed people's perception of the EV from a boring Prius to an exciting sports sedan.
The lawyers will have a field day the first time it can be proven that a software glitch killed a few people. Since it is virtually impossible to predict every combination or potential events it will happen sooner or later.
I tend to see the same thing self driving cars will be lucky to function on many roads especially when environmental conditions get bad. We will eventually get there but I will likely be dead before truly self drive cars have evolved to the point where people will actually prefer them.
I think the technology will evolve quickly. I don't think it's as complicated as you suggest. Look at how facial recognition has advanced in recent years. For a car to drive itself, it needs good "eyes", good sensors, and much of this technology exists or is very close to being feasible.
Quote:
Again, I think finding the road will be the least of the car's problems. Good cameras, good sensors, good code...not a problem.
Quote:
Most definitely. And understandably so. But what happens before these cars even get on the road? How do they handle life and death decisions? For example, a self driving car is cruising down the highway and out of nowhere a kid on a bike comes flying into the road. What does the car do? Should it hit the kid? Only one casualty. If it swerves, it will impact the car in the next lane and perhaps send it into oncoming traffic, thus risking more lives than the kid on the bike. What should it do? I think we are a long way from answering these questions.
I would love to see Apple make a large investment in the Gigafactory. With regard to the charging station network, Elon Musk has stated that any company can use it, if they contribute to the cost (I think he wants $2000 per car). I agree that Apple does not need to buy Tesla. There are contract manufacturers which build entire vehicles and Musk has made many of Tesla's patents public, so that might be a good way for Apple to proceed. Tesla plans to make a car called the Model 3, which is supposed to sell for under $50,000, but it is 3 or 4 years off. A large investment by a company like Apple or, more likely Google, would help Tesla with the finances it needs to expand its product lineup more quickly.
Apple may not NEED to own Tesla, but since when does Apple do partnerships? If they are getting into the car business, they are going to want own it. As you rightly suggest, with Apple bankrolling Tesla, the Model 3 could be a reality sooner than Tesla's promised 3-4 years. Yes, Apple can reinvent the wheel and do it themselves, or they can jump to the front of the line. That's my take anyway.
I've owned different models of both (and currently own one of those). I honestly think BMW's interiors are by far the most elegant -- clean lines, simple layout, everything proportionate, almost Applesque -- but both Audi's MMI and BMW's iDrive are pretty mediocre at best (and annoying, at worst).
A strategic partnership between Apple and BMW is ideal. It would create an automotive product line with the best of two long standing traditions (automotive and computer) and a global reach. Both companies also have a long standing tradition of attention to quality and innovation. The industrial design ethos of each company complements the other. I don't see how an Apple BMW partnership could go wrong! As a long time home boy from Detroit, let me assure all readers that I would be among the first in line to buy a vehicle that is the product of these to venerable firms! (Jeff Garrett, Boise Idaho, August 1, 2015. Copyright 2015. All rights reserved.)
It would be awesome if Apple could partner with BMW.
While I am sure Apple could eventually make great cars, they would likely not drive like BMWs.
I love driving BMWs and I would most certainly buy Apple Car in collaboration with BMW.
I hope the partnership is true.
You mean like a company that makes computers deciding it might try music players, mobile phones and watches?
Remember apples money is offshore and so is BMW
I've owned different models of both (and currently own one of those). I honestly think BMW's interiors are by far the most elegant -- clean lines, simple layout, everything proportionate, almost Applesque -- but both Audi's MMI and BMW's iDrive are pretty mediocre at best (and annoying, at worst).
A bit off to topic. I would really hope that they start air gapping the infotainment from the essential controls in the car that can save your life.
That's also a big problem for fully self driving cars as they most probably will be connected to the internet constantly.
As has been pointed out before, it'll take a lot to get the Quandt family to sell.
And, it just won't fit Apple's Cupertino culture to suddenly bring tens of thousands of Germans (and others, mostly Europeans) on board....*
* I don't mean that in any way as a knock against Europeans or Germans, it's just that I feel the culture across the pond is very different.
In fact, I think it is nearly impossible for Apple to 'simply' buy BMW, for the reasons you mention above. What I find interesting is that people seem to want to have Apple work together with Tesla, but Mr Cook, however, choose to approach BMW. I get the feeling people here seriously underestimate the technological prowess and know-how of a company like BMW, and that alone is going to be very, very expensive. Apple would definitely *not* be in a bargaining position.
Growth? At some point there will be fewer people who want an iPhone that don't already have one. Last year Tim Cook did an interview with WSJD and said iPhone would be Apple's main revenue driver for the next 5 years. What comes after that? Surely Apple executives have to be thinking about that. And what other areas can Apple disrupt that would provide significant revenue/earnings growth?