If you own AAPL, then you are committing to riding the financial world's scariest and most thrilling roller coaster (of any huge market cap stock*).
If I could buy more right now, I would. The Apple Watch will continue to grow. iPhone sales are holding up amazingly well far after the launch of the 6. China sales are doing great. Apple Music is doing well. Apple Pay is growing. Apple TV is about to enter the app/gaming market. And the 6S is about to come out, echoing the huge success of the 5S and 4S.
Will the media play up fears about all the above good news? Yes. Will analysts and places like BusinessInsider keep spreading bad news? Yes. But that news is false, and those fears are unfounded. So lol, soon or later, AAPL is gonna go up.
I'm patient personally. I don't mind waiting a year for that to happen.
We were up at the top of the roller coaster rise, now we gotta go down, but we'll go back up even higher.
Just don't buy the stock if you're gonna need the money within 2 years... preferably, 5.
That's my long winded and totally biased personal conjecture anyway haha.
Personally, I have a substantial buy order in at $95, just in case their 52-week low is broached for whatever reason. (This is not financial advice for anyone reading this)
Looks like AAPL is heading toward $105 in short order and may even broach $100 by next week.
I'll never know for sure since I have him blocked, but Soggy will certainly have to find a new haunt after he self-bans for a year. Good thing PatPatPat took him up on his moronic bet.
There's no way AAPL reaches $150 by end of year at this point unless both Samsung and Google go bankrupt.
I'm still waiting to buy back into AAPL. I know saying this is going to be the kiss of death on this forum but I simply don't like Cook. The first thing I don't like is he's a vocal activist. I've never believed it's a good idea to for a CEO to get to deeply involved with social issues. Next I believe he allows too much speculation. They push back on Apple Music numbers yet still leave doubt by not giving any hard number. They didn't give any numbers with the Apple Watch and I still feel thats a big mistake.
The market sees Apple as a one product company, the iPhone. Thats a problem for Apple in spite of what anyone says here. The Apple Watch rollout was awful even the new Macbook rollout has been awful, they are just now available without a 3-4 week wait and it's not because of demand.
In a country like China Apple is seeing heavy competition by cheaper smartphones, they dropped to third in China. Now that contracts are really a thing of the past in the US I believe that is also going to hurt iPhone sales, people aren't going to upgrade as often.
To be fair Apple is also a victim of the market. Oil is down to 41.00 a barrel today, China devaluing their currency didn't help and the Feds may raise interest rates.
It can be debated why the stock is falling, it can't be debating it's going in one direction and it has nothing to do with manipulation.
I'm still waiting to buy back into AAPL. I know saying this is going to be the kiss of death on this forum but I simply don't like Cook. The first thing I don't like is he's a vocal activist. I've never believed it's a good idea to for a CEO to get to deeply involved with social issues. Next I believe he allows too much speculation. They push back on Apple Music numbers yet still leave doubt by not giving any hard number. They didn't give any numbers with the Apple Watch and I still feel thats a big mistake.
The market sees Apple as a one product company, the iPhone. Thats a problem for Apple in spite of what anyone says here. The Apple Watch rollout was awful even the new Macbook rollout has been awful, they are just now available without a 3-4 week wait and it's not because of demand.
In a country like China Apple is seeing heavy competition by cheaper smartphones, they dropped to third in China. Now that contracts are really a thing of the past in the US I believe that is also going to hurt iPhone sales, people aren't going to upgrade as often.
To be fair Apple is also a victim of the market. Oil is down to 41.00 a barrel today, China devaluing their currency didn't help and the Feds may raise interest rates.
It can be debated why the stock is falling, it can't be debating it's going in one direction and it has nothing to do with manipulation.
1. He allows too much speculation? More than Jobs? Highly doubtful.
2. Not because of demand? Where's the evidence to that.
3. Drop to third in China? Who cares. Apple increased sales in China by a wide margin. Cheap sh1t will always sell more. Apple always has cheap competition world wide and sooner or later it rises to the top.
It can happen. It will take some innovative thinking. But that's Apple for you.
1. Cook needs to announce that they will stop the buyback and dividend immediately and focus on getting enough cash to take the company private.
2. Cook needs to change their quarterly reporting. No more iPhone units. No more iPad units. Nothing. No more guidance. Just revenue and profit for hardware and software. That's it. Wall Street does not deserve anything except the bare minimum from Apple.
3. These two steps could make the stock tank to $90. Which would be great for Apple's efforts to go private. If the stock explodes upward then that's fine also. Maybe Wall Street will finally treat Apple with respect with the constant threat of going private.
So lets say the stock dumps to $90. The market cap will be about $500 billion. Apple generates $60 billion a year in free cash flows. They hold $150 billion in net cash right now. Do the math. In 6 years they would have enough cash to buy themself.
Once Apple has enough cash they can make an offer to stockholders:
1. Keep your shares and have them converted to private equity shares or
2. Sell your shares at a 30% premium.
This will go to a vote and I'm pretty sure most shareholders will approve this move to go private.
Small investors who opted to have their shares converted to private shares will be organized into holding companies.
Twice a year there will be a market where private shares can be sold and bought. Small shareholders can sell their shares to the holding company. Small shareholders who want to buy shares can buy them through a holding company. The reason a holding company is neccessary is because of specific rules regarding being an accredited investor. New investors must hold the shares for at least 2 years.
What will this do?
1. Stop Wall Street bullshit.
2. Stop the option market from manipulating Apple's stock price.
3. Allow Apple to focus on long term growth instead of quarterly targets set by Wall Street
4. Stop wall street traders and machines from stealing Wealth from long term Apple investors
5. Allow Apple to make much larger dividend payments
6. Allow Apple to pay employees based on Apple's profits instead of Wall Streets manipulation of stock price
Just think of it this way. If you invest in private equity in Apple you will recoup your entire investment in SIX YEARS. After that its 100% profits. You won't find any company like that on the face of the earth.
Wow. You've really spent a long time thinking about this.
1. He allows too much speculation? More than Jobs? Highly doubtful.
2. Not because of demand? Where's the evidence to that.
3. Drop to third in China? Who cares. Apple increased sales in China by a wide margin. Cheap sh1t will always sell more. Apple always has cheap competition world wide and sooner or later it rises to the top.
Jobs was consistent. The way Jobs conducted business was consistent, making people guess or causing excitement about a product is different then allowing speculation by give spotty information.
Analysts will fake numbers to spin Apple negative.
Nah. I think the numbers are correct.
The real problem with these numbers is they don't separate out the low-end budget phones that make up the majority of Android (and Samsung) sales and compare them to Apple, who only sells high-end phones.
In essence they are comparing sales of BMW (Apple) to Toyota (Samsung). Toyota makes Lexus models, of which many compete at the same price point as several BMW models. However, Toyota also sells millions of the Corolla, Camry, Yaris and other lower priced vehicles. The bulk of their sales are Toyota models, not Lexus models. An accurate comparison would be to compare BMW only to Lexus sales, not sales of all of Toyota.
This is such a simple concept to understand, yet the Android fanboys just can't seem to grasp this. They only look at total numbers, which is the ONLY metric they are actually ahead of Apple.
Apple wants to be know as a forward thinking open brand. Not just another faceless and amoral corp. IMO its working. They are breaking all records of profits. Look at the scoreboard (profits)
The media will just make up another bullshit story. I'm sorry but the media can make up bullshit articles faster than Apple can refute them.
Apple's NON-iPhone revenue is greater than the entire revenue of Google. Stop repeating some BS meme.
fastest selling Apple product ever. GTFO.
70% of the Chinese population make only $20 a day. You seriously think Apple can sell phones to them?
Who give a shit if Xiaomi sells millions of cheap POS phones. Apple grew revenue by 100% YoY last quarter.
IN the next 5 years China will add HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of upper middle class people. There is your iPhone growth right there. The fact is 95% of the phones that are over $800 sold in China are iPhones. The only people who buy the cheap Xiaomi crap are those who can't afford iPhones. But each year the amount of citizens who can afford iPhones grow by tens of millions.
GTFO. Tim Cook said LAST YEAR that 80% of iPhones sold are not on subsidy plans. Stop spreading more media bullshit. In fact the new phone plans pushed by Sprint/AT&T/T-mobile/Verizon allow you to upgrade MORE FREQUENTLY.
You know nothing about the stock market if you don't think manipulation isn't a reality.
All your points yet the stock is still falling and Apple has lost about 100 Billion in market cap. You're biggest problem is you keep looking at where Apple is now, investors are looking at where Apple is going to be, or at least where they believe Apple is heading. Thats the part you don't seem to get.
I fully understand how much Apple has sold, their marketshare, profit margins and growth. Yet I got out. When you stop whining about manipulation, going private and being in pure love with Apple, "you can't see the forest for the trees". You might want to look that up.
Stock down another $3 today. Even though they are DOMINATING the industry and growing iPhone sales and selling prices at an incredible rate.
Stock is down 16% after reporting record breaking earnings and 40% EPS growth YoY.
Apple investors need to face the facts: Wall Street will never value Apple fairly.
I think its time for Tim Cook to float a rumor that Apple is seriously thinking of taking the company private.
As far as stock valuations go, wall street is as much noise as signal. Wall street's expectations for future earnings and growth are all that matter for a company like apple. Apple is intentionally secret about future products unlike other companies. You own apple only because of your confidence in their ability to execute well on future products.
They havent substantiated any of the rumors in automotive, TV, AI, virtual reality, etc. the ecosystem is becoming more robust over time for sure.
I will stay long apple and continue to reinvest dividends and new money as their stock price drops. The sheer quantity of real estate they are interested in is "news" enough for me. Tim cool doesnt usually buy stuff "just because". I am concerned about the need for more visionary design talent however. The "new guy" cannot make enough money at apple, so no true visionary will go work for them. The "new guy" will generally go for a startup so they can make buyout or ipo money.
I would be curious what Elon Musk's plans for apple would be IF he was running it.
In 2011 when Apple was growing revenue 100% they still had a weak PE of 20. The whole industry knew they were going to grow more and more yet Wall Street still punished them with a pathetic PE.
People like myself that have invested in Apple have been rewarded, you act as if Wall Street has kept AAPL down, like Wall Street is some living creature. Your unrealistic expectation is that AAPL is going to continue to go in one direction.
The Apple Watch was heavily marketed by Apple, top steal from Samsung it was suppose to be the next big thing and it landed with a resounding thud. So much so that Apple will not release numbers. iPad sales have slumped and Mac sales while up don't account for the majority of Apple's profits.
Tim Cook jumped on the Apple wave when Steve Jobs died and has done nothing to show he can generate iPhone like profits with a product released while he has been CEO. The Apple Watch was suppose to do that and it hasn't. When Apple has it's quarterly earnings all eyes are on one product, the iPhone. To the market Apple is a one product company, I know I keep saying that and for some reason it doesn't seem to click here.
If the iPhone 6s beats expectation then you will most likely see the stock rise, if it doesn't then I would recommend you stay away from high buildings because you will most likely jump.
Jobs was consistent. The way Jobs conducted business was consistent, making people guess or causing excitement about a product is different then allowing speculation by give spotty information.
Drop in China, Who cares? Clearly the market.
So how many Apple TV were sold during Jobs tenure. How many iPod touches?
The Apple Watch was heavily marketed by Apple, top steal from Samsung it was suppose to be the next big thing and it landed with a resounding thud. So much so that Apple will not release numbers. iPad sales have slumped and Mac sales while up don't account for the majority of Apple's profits.
Tim Cook jumped on the Apple wave when Steve Jobs died and has done nothing to show he can generate iPhone like profits with a product released while he has been CEO. The Apple Watch was suppose to do that and it hasn't. When Apple has it's quarterly earnings all eyes are on one product, the iPhone. To the market Apple is a one product company, I know I keep saying that and for some reason it doesn't seem to click here.
If the iPhone 6s beats expectation then you will most likely see the stock rise, if it doesn't then I would recommend you stay away from high buildings because you will most likely jump.
1. Holy shit. Not this troll tripe. Apple announced in October no numbers would be released. Hot damn, why do we have to explain it to you.
2. According to surveys, Apple watch already has a lead in wearables.
3. Why are fools comparing Apple watch numbers to 10th generation iPhone numbers? News flash: the Apple watch out sold the 1st gen iPhone and iPad in the same initial timeframe. Who thought the watch would instantly create iPhone like profit/revenue in its first year? No one but fools.
4. The iPhone is a unique device. There probably won't be anything that generates that much revenue ever. I guess Jobs failed to generate iPhone like profits with the iPad. Womp womp womp.
5. Google is ads. No one is harping on them for being a one product company.
So how many Apple TV were sold during Jobs tenure. How many iPod touches?
1. Holy shit. Not this troll tripe. Apple announced in October no numbers would be released. Hot damn, why do we have to explain it to you.
2. According to surveys, Apple watch already has a lead in wearables.
3. Why are fools comparing Apple watch numbers to 10th generation iPhone numbers? News flash: the Apple watch out sold the 1st gen iPhone and iPad in the same initial timeframe. Who thought the watch would instantly create iPhone like profit/revenue in its first year? No one but fools.
4. The iPhone is a unique device. There probably won't be anything that generates that much revenue ever. I guess Jobs failed to generate iPhone like profits with the iPad. Womp womp womp.
5. Google is ads. No one is harping on them for being a one product company.
Jobs handled the Apple TV situation perfectly. He made it clear that Apple TV was a project and a work in progress. The Apple Watch was a very different situation.
Apple announced in Oct the numbers wouldn't be released. I have asked this questions several times. If the Apple Watch sold 20 Million units do you still believe Apple wouldn't have released the numbers? Reality, if the numbers were good they would have released the numbers.
Apple Watch leading wearables is a non factor. The wearable market is next to nothing and those numbers go up against things like Fitbit which is not a smartwatch. The Apple Watch pre release push was massive, even going as far as sending Ivy around to market the watch and trying to get the fashion industry to really embrace it. It was being marketed more as fashion then wearable technology. It didn't help that the rollout was awful.
There was nothing even remotely like this with Apple TV.
There was a time when investors thought iPad numbers could reach iPhone numbers. The iPad was going to kill the PC. What really happened is the iPad is fast enough where people don't need to upgrade it that often and larger phones have also slowed iPad sales.
The fact that iPad sales have dropped by 18% only reenforces by comment that the market sees Apple as a one product company. The iPhone.
An investor trying to justify why Apple stock should be at a certain level by bashing Google, Samsung, Microsoft or any other company is foolish and only shows why a fool and their money are soon parted.
I have owned an iPhone since the iPhone 4, and iPad since the iPad 2. I use a Macbook Air and a Mac Pro. I will continue to use them as long as they meet my needs. The second that isn't the case I will look for something that does. I've owned AAPL on and off since 1991 when it makes sense for me to put my money there I do, when it doesn't I invest it elsewhere.
When I feel AAPL has stabilized to some degree I will be back in, not a second before that. I invest with my head not with emotion.
Jobs handled the Apple TV situation perfectly. He made it clear that Apple TV was a project and a work in progress. The Apple Watch was a very different situation.
....
When I feel AAPL has stabilized to some degree I will be back in, not a second before that. I invest with my head not with emotion.
You seem to have made up your mind that you think Apple is being managed badly, and this is Tim Cook's fault, so I doubt anything can make you re-consider your opinion. Your general posting history certainly is very much on the negative side.
For starters, you are equating stock price performance with company management & its actual financial performance. History is littered with examples of markets getting ahead of themselves on stocks with "great vision", giving them very high P/E, only to see said companies never reach the lofty heights - and good companies never launch into the stratosphere of P/E. In the current environment, we see that Google is definitely valued much higher than Apple (on P/E basis), even though they have shown little ability to grow revenue outside their core services, despite years of trying. Same with Amazon. What about Netflix? Great service, but is a 250ish PE really warranted? Does that mean that Netflix is a better company than Apple? That is life - it is what the "market" wants to price it at. I know which company I would invest in over a typical equities horizon (5+ years).
Analysts that follow Apple do not view it as a one-trick pony, and you can see that with a few minutes of research. They model all parts of the business, and as noted, iPhone is outsized, but the other parts (outside iPad) are growing, and in Services case, quite well. Services is one area that analysts (and one would hope the actual investing parts of WS) recognize as growth + annuity-like. The iPhone is only large because it is the dominant "brand" in the high-end of the most valuable CE & communications device market on the planet! It isn't like Apple is planning to only focus on iPhone - they are launching multiple new products. - it is just that the iPhone is that successful. It is only you & others like you that try to make it a negative.
Apple Watch failure? If you actually use this thought process for investing, then I don't know how you can say you are not emotional - it is just that your emotions are negative. The Apple Watch has only been on the market for a little over 4 months! It is really a new device category, and one that will take awhile to grow. Only sensationalistic media hyped that it should sell 10s of millions (I saw 40M by one) first year. As repeated ad naseum, the original iPhone took awhile to grow to be significant. This product category of wearables has great potential, and Apple has the market leading entry.
Wanting to sit out the volatility of Apple is a fine statement - there are many other great investment opportunities out there, and ways of indexing, etc. However, with the contention that Apple is somehow failing financially, then you are just being as foolish in refusing to see what is in front of your eyes as the media pundits.
I think we all know what your issue is - Tim Cook - and it isn't hard to guess what your issue with him really is. Admit it and move on (perhaps to a different site if you have such distaste for Apple now).
You seem to have made up your mind that you think Apple is being managed badly, and this is Tim Cook's fault, so I doubt anything can make you re-consider your opinion. Your general posting history certainly is very much on the negative side.
For starters, you are equating stock price performance with company management & its actual financial performance. History is littered with examples of markets getting ahead of themselves on stocks with "great vision", giving them very high P/E, only to see said companies never reach the lofty heights - and good companies never launch into the stratosphere of P/E. In the current environment, we see that Google is definitely valued much higher than Apple (on P/E basis), even though they have shown little ability to grow revenue outside their core services, despite years of trying. Same with Amazon. What about Netflix? Great service, but is a 250ish PE really warranted? Does that mean that Netflix is a better company than Apple? That is life - it is what the "market" wants to price it at. I know which company I would invest in over a typical equities horizon (5+ years).
Analysts that follow Apple do not view it as a one-trick pony, and you can see that with a few minutes of research. They model all parts of the business, and as noted, iPhone is outsized, but the other parts (outside iPad) are growing, and in Services case, quite well. Services is one area that analysts (and one would hope the actual investing parts of WS) recognize as growth + annuity-like. The iPhone is only large because it is the dominant "brand" in the high-end of the most valuable CE & communications device market on the planet! It isn't like Apple is planning to only focus on iPhone - they are launching multiple new products. - it is just that the iPhone is that successful. It is only you & others like you that try to make it a negative.
Apple Watch failure? If you actually use this thought process for investing, then I don't know how you can say you are not emotional - it is just that your emotions are negative. The Apple Watch has only been on the market for a little over 4 months! It is really a new device category, and one that will take awhile to grow. Only sensationalistic media hyped that it should sell 10s of millions (I saw 40M by one) first year. As repeated ad naseum, the original iPhone took awhile to grow to be significant. This product category of wearables has great potential, and Apple has the market leading entry.
Wanting to sit out the volatility of Apple is a fine statement - there are many other great investment opportunities out there, and ways of indexing, etc. However, with the contention that Apple is somehow failing financially, then you are just being as foolish in refusing to see what is in front of your eyes as the media pundits.
I think we all know what your issue is - Tim Cook - and it isn't hard to guess what your issue with him really is. Admit it and move on (perhaps to a different site if you have such distaste for Apple now).
My opinion isn't on the negative side it's just realistic and in my opinion accurate. I use Apple products because they suit my needs and I enjoy using them. I invest in AAPL because I have done very well with it, I decided to pull back for a while because there were several key factors I didn't like one of them is Cook's management.
Several rollouts under him have not been the best, iMac delays, poor Apple Watch rollout and he isn't very good at damage control. Having marketed the Apple Watch in such a high profile manner and not release numbers makes no sense unless the product isn't doing well. That was Cook's first big release, we had an announcement followed six months later by an event. Then when it came time to release, there was a 4-6 week wait, followed by an even longer wait of it to get into retail stores. Hard for even the most diehard fan to say it was smooth.
I've heard over and over that Cook said they weren't going to release then yet we all know if the numbers were ground breaking they would have been release.
His activism doesn't sit well with me either, let him step down like Gates and get into government if he wants to be an activist. I don't expect others to hold my views, however my point to @sog35 is he's full hardcore emotion when it comes to AAPL, I invest based on facts or at least how I see them. Thats my only point when it comes to investing and why I pulled out of AAPL for now. Based on how things have turned out hard for anyone to debate me on the issue.
I believe 63% of Apple's revenue is the iPhone, it doesn't matter much if I see them as a one trick pony or a one product company, whats matters to me is how the market views them when it comes to investing. Again it's hard to debate their not seen that way given the drop.
In no way do I feel Apple is failing financially then again at one time Microsoft had a 550 Billion market cap and I don't think many see them today as being successful or I should say well run even though the company is still worth 372 Billion. At some point a company hits their peak, you would be hard pressed to find a company that keeps growing and stays at the top forever, or at the very least stumble.
The Apple Watch situation didn't sit well for me, if the iPhone numbers came in even a bit higher I may have looked like a total fool selling and holding for a while. Just happens things rolled my way.
Another factor were issues in China, Apple is also facing increasing competition from companies like Xiaomi Corp.
As far as what you think my issues are with Cook, if you're talking about him being gay, you couldn't be more wrong. I don't believe a CEO should be such a vocal activist, even more so when he does business in countries that commit some of the worst human atrocities. Cook is setting a bar that puts Apple under a spotlight, things like workforce diversity when to me means filling a quota instead of hiring the best person for the job. Again stay out of being an activist and concentrate on the product.
Most large companies have good workforce diversity, have given benefits to same sex couples for a long time, I work for IBM we have given same sex couples the same benefits for a very long time. Apple isn't exactly setting some kind of standard. Tim Cook tweeting about SCOTUS is out of the norm for a CEO. Cook being gay that is about as shocking as you saying the sky is blue.
My opinion isn't on the negative side it's just realistic and in my opinion accurate. I use Apple products because they suit my needs and I enjoy using them. I invest in AAPL because I have done very well with it, I decided to pull back for a while because there were several key factors I didn't like one of them is Cook's management.
Several rollouts under him have not been the best, iMac delays, poor Apple Watch rollout and he isn't very good at damage control. Having marketed the Apple Watch in such a high profile manner and not release numbers makes no sense unless the product isn't doing well. That was Cook's first big release, we had an announcement followed six months later by an event. Then when it came time to release, there was a 4-6 week wait, followed by an even longer wait of it to get into retail stores. Hard for even the most diehard fan to say it was smooth.
I've heard over and over that Cook said they weren't going to release then yet we all know if the numbers were ground breaking they would have been release.
His activism doesn't sit well with me either, let him step down like Gates and get into government if he wants to be an activist. I don't expect others to hold my views, however my point to <a data-huddler-embed="href" href="/u/191133/sog35" style="display:inline-block;">@sog35</a>
is he's full hardcore emotion when it comes to AAPL, I invest based on facts or at least how I see them. Thats my only point when it comes to investing and why I pulled out of AAPL for now. Based on how things have turned out hard for anyone to debate me on the issue.
I believe 63% of Apple's revenue is the iPhone, it doesn't matter much if I see them as a one trick pony or a one product company, whats matters to me is how the market views them when it comes to investing. Again it's hard to debate their not seen that way given the drop.
In no way do I feel Apple is failing financially then again at one time Microsoft had a 550 Billion market cap and I don't think many see them today as being successful or I should say well run even though the company is still worth 372 Billion. At some point a company hits their peak, you would be hard pressed to find a company that keeps growing and stays at the top forever, or at the very least stumble.
The Apple Watch situation didn't sit well for me, if the iPhone numbers came in even a bit higher I may have looked like a total fool selling and holding for a while. Just happens things rolled my way.
Another factor were issues in China, Apple is also facing increasing competition from companies like Xiaomi Corp.
As far as what you think my issues are with Cook, if you're talking about him being gay, you couldn't be more wrong. I don't believe a CEO should be such a vocal activist, even more so when he does business in countries that commit some of the worst human atrocities. Cook is setting a bar that puts Apple under a spotlight, things like workforce diversity when to me means filling a quota instead of hiring the best person for the job. Again stay out of being an activist and concentrate on the product.
Most large companies have good workforce diversity, have given benefits to same sex couples for a long time, I work for IBM we have given same sex couples the same benefits for a very long time. Apple isn't exactly setting some kind of standard. Tim Cook tweeting about SCOTUS is out of the norm for a CEO. Cook being gay that is about as shocking as you saying the sky is blue.
Concern trolling at its best (worse?).
Under Jobs, nothing was delayed, excellent damage control, no months-long gap between announcement and release. Oh wait, all of those things happened.
First is increased competition from Android, Microsoft, and now Chinese firms. They don't play in the same pool. Apple has increased sales with the competition. I guess any day now the will be an iPhone killer.
Since Apple said no numbers will be released, no one in their right mind expected any numbers including blockbuster numbers.
So how many Apple TV were sold during Jobs tenure. How many iPod touches?
1. Holy shit. Not this troll tripe. Apple announced in October no numbers would be released. Hot damn, why do we have to explain it to you.
2. According to surveys, Apple watch already has a lead in wearables.
3. Why are fools comparing Apple watch numbers to 10th generation iPhone numbers? News flash: the Apple watch out sold the 1st gen iPhone and iPad in the same initial timeframe. Who thought the watch would instantly create iPhone like profit/revenue in its first year? No one but fools.
4. The iPhone is a unique device. There probably won't be anything that generates that much revenue ever. I guess Jobs failed to generate iPhone like profits with the iPad. Womp womp womp.
5. Google is ads. No one is harping on them for being a one product company.
boom. nailed it.
AltApple -- one of the remaining trolls here. Mac_128, too.
I've heard over and over that Cook said they weren't going to release then yet we all know if the numbers were ground breaking they would have been release.
uh, no. how do we know that? you're making things up to fit your narrative.
His activism doesn't sit well with me either,
aaaand there it is.
Again stay out of being an activist and concentrate on the product.
what on earth...? do you have no personal interests outside of work? how boring.
Most large companies have good workforce diversity, have given benefits to same sex couples for a long time, I work for IBM we have given same sex couples the same benefits for a very long time.
Exactly! For example, that would be like saying Dell should take itself private. No way possible.
Oh…wait…
Dell the corporation did not buy itself with its own money. Michael Dell and investment firms raised the money (debt offerings) to buy the public shares, after which "they" owned the company Dell. It was then de-listed from the public exchanges. Dell the corporation's cash flow did not buy its own shares. Sure, once in the hands of its new owners, the cash flow is used to service the debt.
Comments
Personally, I have a substantial buy order in at $95, just in case their 52-week low is broached for whatever reason. (This is not financial advice for anyone reading this)
Apple generates $60 billion in free cash flows a year. They could buy themself in 6 years.
If the stock jumps good. Maybe with a threat of going private Wall Street will finally give Apple the respect it deserves.
You do not understand the nature of corporations and their ownership structure if you believe that Apple can buy itself.
Looks like AAPL is heading toward $105 in short order and may even broach $100 by next week.
I'll never know for sure since I have him blocked, but Soggy will certainly have to find a new haunt after he self-bans for a year. Good thing PatPatPat took him up on his moronic bet.
There's no way AAPL reaches $150 by end of year at this point unless both Samsung and Google go bankrupt.
I'm still waiting to buy back into AAPL. I know saying this is going to be the kiss of death on this forum but I simply don't like Cook. The first thing I don't like is he's a vocal activist. I've never believed it's a good idea to for a CEO to get to deeply involved with social issues. Next I believe he allows too much speculation. They push back on Apple Music numbers yet still leave doubt by not giving any hard number. They didn't give any numbers with the Apple Watch and I still feel thats a big mistake.
The market sees Apple as a one product company, the iPhone. Thats a problem for Apple in spite of what anyone says here. The Apple Watch rollout was awful even the new Macbook rollout has been awful, they are just now available without a 3-4 week wait and it's not because of demand.
In a country like China Apple is seeing heavy competition by cheaper smartphones, they dropped to third in China. Now that contracts are really a thing of the past in the US I believe that is also going to hurt iPhone sales, people aren't going to upgrade as often.
To be fair Apple is also a victim of the market. Oil is down to 41.00 a barrel today, China devaluing their currency didn't help and the Feds may raise interest rates.
It can be debated why the stock is falling, it can't be debating it's going in one direction and it has nothing to do with manipulation.
1. He allows too much speculation? More than Jobs? Highly doubtful.
2. Not because of demand? Where's the evidence to that.
3. Drop to third in China? Who cares. Apple increased sales in China by a wide margin. Cheap sh1t will always sell more. Apple always has cheap competition world wide and sooner or later it rises to the top.
It can happen. It will take some innovative thinking. But that's Apple for you.
1. Cook needs to announce that they will stop the buyback and dividend immediately and focus on getting enough cash to take the company private.
2. Cook needs to change their quarterly reporting. No more iPhone units. No more iPad units. Nothing. No more guidance. Just revenue and profit for hardware and software. That's it. Wall Street does not deserve anything except the bare minimum from Apple.
3. These two steps could make the stock tank to $90. Which would be great for Apple's efforts to go private. If the stock explodes upward then that's fine also. Maybe Wall Street will finally treat Apple with respect with the constant threat of going private.
So lets say the stock dumps to $90. The market cap will be about $500 billion. Apple generates $60 billion a year in free cash flows. They hold $150 billion in net cash right now. Do the math. In 6 years they would have enough cash to buy themself.
Once Apple has enough cash they can make an offer to stockholders:
1. Keep your shares and have them converted to private equity shares or
2. Sell your shares at a 30% premium.
This will go to a vote and I'm pretty sure most shareholders will approve this move to go private.
Small investors who opted to have their shares converted to private shares will be organized into holding companies.
Twice a year there will be a market where private shares can be sold and bought. Small shareholders can sell their shares to the holding company. Small shareholders who want to buy shares can buy them through a holding company. The reason a holding company is neccessary is because of specific rules regarding being an accredited investor. New investors must hold the shares for at least 2 years.
What will this do?
1. Stop Wall Street bullshit.
2. Stop the option market from manipulating Apple's stock price.
3. Allow Apple to focus on long term growth instead of quarterly targets set by Wall Street
4. Stop wall street traders and machines from stealing Wealth from long term Apple investors
5. Allow Apple to make much larger dividend payments
6. Allow Apple to pay employees based on Apple's profits instead of Wall Streets manipulation of stock price
Just think of it this way. If you invest in private equity in Apple you will recoup your entire investment in SIX YEARS. After that its 100% profits. You won't find any company like that on the face of the earth.
Wow. You've really spent a long time thinking about this.
1. He allows too much speculation? More than Jobs? Highly doubtful.
2. Not because of demand? Where's the evidence to that.
3. Drop to third in China? Who cares. Apple increased sales in China by a wide margin. Cheap sh1t will always sell more. Apple always has cheap competition world wide and sooner or later it rises to the top.
Jobs was consistent. The way Jobs conducted business was consistent, making people guess or causing excitement about a product is different then allowing speculation by give spotty information.
Drop in China, Who cares? Clearly the market.
Analysts will fake numbers to spin Apple negative.
Nah. I think the numbers are correct.
The real problem with these numbers is they don't separate out the low-end budget phones that make up the majority of Android (and Samsung) sales and compare them to Apple, who only sells high-end phones.
In essence they are comparing sales of BMW (Apple) to Toyota (Samsung). Toyota makes Lexus models, of which many compete at the same price point as several BMW models. However, Toyota also sells millions of the Corolla, Camry, Yaris and other lower priced vehicles. The bulk of their sales are Toyota models, not Lexus models. An accurate comparison would be to compare BMW only to Lexus sales, not sales of all of Toyota.
This is such a simple concept to understand, yet the Android fanboys just can't seem to grasp this. They only look at total numbers, which is the ONLY metric they are actually ahead of Apple.
Apple wants to be know as a forward thinking open brand. Not just another faceless and amoral corp. IMO its working. They are breaking all records of profits. Look at the scoreboard (profits)
The media will just make up another bullshit story. I'm sorry but the media can make up bullshit articles faster than Apple can refute them.
Apple's NON-iPhone revenue is greater than the entire revenue of Google. Stop repeating some BS meme.
fastest selling Apple product ever. GTFO.
70% of the Chinese population make only $20 a day. You seriously think Apple can sell phones to them?
Who give a shit if Xiaomi sells millions of cheap POS phones. Apple grew revenue by 100% YoY last quarter.
IN the next 5 years China will add HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of upper middle class people. There is your iPhone growth right there. The fact is 95% of the phones that are over $800 sold in China are iPhones. The only people who buy the cheap Xiaomi crap are those who can't afford iPhones. But each year the amount of citizens who can afford iPhones grow by tens of millions.
GTFO. Tim Cook said LAST YEAR that 80% of iPhones sold are not on subsidy plans. Stop spreading more media bullshit. In fact the new phone plans pushed by Sprint/AT&T/T-mobile/Verizon allow you to upgrade MORE FREQUENTLY.
You know nothing about the stock market if you don't think manipulation isn't a reality.
All your points yet the stock is still falling and Apple has lost about 100 Billion in market cap. You're biggest problem is you keep looking at where Apple is now, investors are looking at where Apple is going to be, or at least where they believe Apple is heading. Thats the part you don't seem to get.
I fully understand how much Apple has sold, their marketshare, profit margins and growth. Yet I got out. When you stop whining about manipulation, going private and being in pure love with Apple, "you can't see the forest for the trees". You might want to look that up.
Apple's NON-iPhone revenue last quarter was $18 billion.
Google's TOTAL revenue last quarter was $17.8 billion.
So if Apple's NON-iPhone revenue is NOTHING and a drop in the bucket what does that make Google's entire revenue stream?
In July Google was at 516 they are down today by 1.94% yet they are at 648.00. Your biggest problem is you have no clue why that happened.
As far as stock valuations go, wall street is as much noise as signal. Wall street's expectations for future earnings and growth are all that matter for a company like apple. Apple is intentionally secret about future products unlike other companies. You own apple only because of your confidence in their ability to execute well on future products.
They havent substantiated any of the rumors in automotive, TV, AI, virtual reality, etc. the ecosystem is becoming more robust over time for sure.
I will stay long apple and continue to reinvest dividends and new money as their stock price drops. The sheer quantity of real estate they are interested in is "news" enough for me. Tim cool doesnt usually buy stuff "just because". I am concerned about the need for more visionary design talent however. The "new guy" cannot make enough money at apple, so no true visionary will go work for them. The "new guy" will generally go for a startup so they can make buyout or ipo money.
I would be curious what Elon Musk's plans for apple would be IF he was running it.
Stop with the bullshit.
In 2011 when Apple was growing revenue 100% they still had a weak PE of 20. The whole industry knew they were going to grow more and more yet Wall Street still punished them with a pathetic PE.
People like myself that have invested in Apple have been rewarded, you act as if Wall Street has kept AAPL down, like Wall Street is some living creature. Your unrealistic expectation is that AAPL is going to continue to go in one direction.
The Apple Watch was heavily marketed by Apple, top steal from Samsung it was suppose to be the next big thing and it landed with a resounding thud. So much so that Apple will not release numbers. iPad sales have slumped and Mac sales while up don't account for the majority of Apple's profits.
Tim Cook jumped on the Apple wave when Steve Jobs died and has done nothing to show he can generate iPhone like profits with a product released while he has been CEO. The Apple Watch was suppose to do that and it hasn't. When Apple has it's quarterly earnings all eyes are on one product, the iPhone. To the market Apple is a one product company, I know I keep saying that and for some reason it doesn't seem to click here.
If the iPhone 6s beats expectation then you will most likely see the stock rise, if it doesn't then I would recommend you stay away from high buildings because you will most likely jump.
So how many Apple TV were sold during Jobs tenure. How many iPod touches?
1. Holy shit. Not this troll tripe. Apple announced in October no numbers would be released. Hot damn, why do we have to explain it to you.
2. According to surveys, Apple watch already has a lead in wearables.
3. Why are fools comparing Apple watch numbers to 10th generation iPhone numbers? News flash: the Apple watch out sold the 1st gen iPhone and iPad in the same initial timeframe. Who thought the watch would instantly create iPhone like profit/revenue in its first year? No one but fools.
4. The iPhone is a unique device. There probably won't be anything that generates that much revenue ever. I guess Jobs failed to generate iPhone like profits with the iPad. Womp womp womp.
5. Google is ads. No one is harping on them for being a one product company.
So how many Apple TV were sold during Jobs tenure. How many iPod touches?
1. Holy shit. Not this troll tripe. Apple announced in October no numbers would be released. Hot damn, why do we have to explain it to you.
2. According to surveys, Apple watch already has a lead in wearables.
3. Why are fools comparing Apple watch numbers to 10th generation iPhone numbers? News flash: the Apple watch out sold the 1st gen iPhone and iPad in the same initial timeframe. Who thought the watch would instantly create iPhone like profit/revenue in its first year? No one but fools.
4. The iPhone is a unique device. There probably won't be anything that generates that much revenue ever. I guess Jobs failed to generate iPhone like profits with the iPad. Womp womp womp.
5. Google is ads. No one is harping on them for being a one product company.
Jobs handled the Apple TV situation perfectly. He made it clear that Apple TV was a project and a work in progress. The Apple Watch was a very different situation.
Apple announced in Oct the numbers wouldn't be released. I have asked this questions several times. If the Apple Watch sold 20 Million units do you still believe Apple wouldn't have released the numbers? Reality, if the numbers were good they would have released the numbers.
Apple Watch leading wearables is a non factor. The wearable market is next to nothing and those numbers go up against things like Fitbit which is not a smartwatch. The Apple Watch pre release push was massive, even going as far as sending Ivy around to market the watch and trying to get the fashion industry to really embrace it. It was being marketed more as fashion then wearable technology. It didn't help that the rollout was awful.
There was nothing even remotely like this with Apple TV.
There was a time when investors thought iPad numbers could reach iPhone numbers. The iPad was going to kill the PC. What really happened is the iPad is fast enough where people don't need to upgrade it that often and larger phones have also slowed iPad sales.
The fact that iPad sales have dropped by 18% only reenforces by comment that the market sees Apple as a one product company. The iPhone.
An investor trying to justify why Apple stock should be at a certain level by bashing Google, Samsung, Microsoft or any other company is foolish and only shows why a fool and their money are soon parted.
I have owned an iPhone since the iPhone 4, and iPad since the iPad 2. I use a Macbook Air and a Mac Pro. I will continue to use them as long as they meet my needs. The second that isn't the case I will look for something that does. I've owned AAPL on and off since 1991 when it makes sense for me to put my money there I do, when it doesn't I invest it elsewhere.
When I feel AAPL has stabilized to some degree I will be back in, not a second before that. I invest with my head not with emotion.
Jobs handled the Apple TV situation perfectly. He made it clear that Apple TV was a project and a work in progress. The Apple Watch was a very different situation.
....
When I feel AAPL has stabilized to some degree I will be back in, not a second before that. I invest with my head not with emotion.
You seem to have made up your mind that you think Apple is being managed badly, and this is Tim Cook's fault, so I doubt anything can make you re-consider your opinion. Your general posting history certainly is very much on the negative side.
For starters, you are equating stock price performance with company management & its actual financial performance. History is littered with examples of markets getting ahead of themselves on stocks with "great vision", giving them very high P/E, only to see said companies never reach the lofty heights - and good companies never launch into the stratosphere of P/E. In the current environment, we see that Google is definitely valued much higher than Apple (on P/E basis), even though they have shown little ability to grow revenue outside their core services, despite years of trying. Same with Amazon. What about Netflix? Great service, but is a 250ish PE really warranted? Does that mean that Netflix is a better company than Apple? That is life - it is what the "market" wants to price it at. I know which company I would invest in over a typical equities horizon (5+ years).
Analysts that follow Apple do not view it as a one-trick pony, and you can see that with a few minutes of research. They model all parts of the business, and as noted, iPhone is outsized, but the other parts (outside iPad) are growing, and in Services case, quite well. Services is one area that analysts (and one would hope the actual investing parts of WS) recognize as growth + annuity-like. The iPhone is only large because it is the dominant "brand" in the high-end of the most valuable CE & communications device market on the planet! It isn't like Apple is planning to only focus on iPhone - they are launching multiple new products. - it is just that the iPhone is that successful. It is only you & others like you that try to make it a negative.
Apple Watch failure? If you actually use this thought process for investing, then I don't know how you can say you are not emotional - it is just that your emotions are negative. The Apple Watch has only been on the market for a little over 4 months! It is really a new device category, and one that will take awhile to grow. Only sensationalistic media hyped that it should sell 10s of millions (I saw 40M by one) first year. As repeated ad naseum, the original iPhone took awhile to grow to be significant. This product category of wearables has great potential, and Apple has the market leading entry.
Wanting to sit out the volatility of Apple is a fine statement - there are many other great investment opportunities out there, and ways of indexing, etc. However, with the contention that Apple is somehow failing financially, then you are just being as foolish in refusing to see what is in front of your eyes as the media pundits.
I think we all know what your issue is - Tim Cook - and it isn't hard to guess what your issue with him really is. Admit it and move on (perhaps to a different site if you have such distaste for Apple now).
You do not understand the nature of corporations and their ownership structure if you believe that Apple can buy itself.
Exactly! For example, that would be like saying Dell should take itself private. No way possible.
Oh…wait…
You seem to have made up your mind that you think Apple is being managed badly, and this is Tim Cook's fault, so I doubt anything can make you re-consider your opinion. Your general posting history certainly is very much on the negative side.
For starters, you are equating stock price performance with company management & its actual financial performance. History is littered with examples of markets getting ahead of themselves on stocks with "great vision", giving them very high P/E, only to see said companies never reach the lofty heights - and good companies never launch into the stratosphere of P/E. In the current environment, we see that Google is definitely valued much higher than Apple (on P/E basis), even though they have shown little ability to grow revenue outside their core services, despite years of trying. Same with Amazon. What about Netflix? Great service, but is a 250ish PE really warranted? Does that mean that Netflix is a better company than Apple? That is life - it is what the "market" wants to price it at. I know which company I would invest in over a typical equities horizon (5+ years).
Analysts that follow Apple do not view it as a one-trick pony, and you can see that with a few minutes of research. They model all parts of the business, and as noted, iPhone is outsized, but the other parts (outside iPad) are growing, and in Services case, quite well. Services is one area that analysts (and one would hope the actual investing parts of WS) recognize as growth + annuity-like. The iPhone is only large because it is the dominant "brand" in the high-end of the most valuable CE & communications device market on the planet! It isn't like Apple is planning to only focus on iPhone - they are launching multiple new products. - it is just that the iPhone is that successful. It is only you & others like you that try to make it a negative.
Apple Watch failure? If you actually use this thought process for investing, then I don't know how you can say you are not emotional - it is just that your emotions are negative. The Apple Watch has only been on the market for a little over 4 months! It is really a new device category, and one that will take awhile to grow. Only sensationalistic media hyped that it should sell 10s of millions (I saw 40M by one) first year. As repeated ad naseum, the original iPhone took awhile to grow to be significant. This product category of wearables has great potential, and Apple has the market leading entry.
Wanting to sit out the volatility of Apple is a fine statement - there are many other great investment opportunities out there, and ways of indexing, etc. However, with the contention that Apple is somehow failing financially, then you are just being as foolish in refusing to see what is in front of your eyes as the media pundits.
I think we all know what your issue is - Tim Cook - and it isn't hard to guess what your issue with him really is. Admit it and move on (perhaps to a different site if you have such distaste for Apple now).
My opinion isn't on the negative side it's just realistic and in my opinion accurate. I use Apple products because they suit my needs and I enjoy using them. I invest in AAPL because I have done very well with it, I decided to pull back for a while because there were several key factors I didn't like one of them is Cook's management.
Several rollouts under him have not been the best, iMac delays, poor Apple Watch rollout and he isn't very good at damage control. Having marketed the Apple Watch in such a high profile manner and not release numbers makes no sense unless the product isn't doing well. That was Cook's first big release, we had an announcement followed six months later by an event. Then when it came time to release, there was a 4-6 week wait, followed by an even longer wait of it to get into retail stores. Hard for even the most diehard fan to say it was smooth.
I've heard over and over that Cook said they weren't going to release then yet we all know if the numbers were ground breaking they would have been release.
His activism doesn't sit well with me either, let him step down like Gates and get into government if he wants to be an activist. I don't expect others to hold my views, however my point to @sog35 is he's full hardcore emotion when it comes to AAPL, I invest based on facts or at least how I see them. Thats my only point when it comes to investing and why I pulled out of AAPL for now. Based on how things have turned out hard for anyone to debate me on the issue.
I believe 63% of Apple's revenue is the iPhone, it doesn't matter much if I see them as a one trick pony or a one product company, whats matters to me is how the market views them when it comes to investing. Again it's hard to debate their not seen that way given the drop.
In no way do I feel Apple is failing financially then again at one time Microsoft had a 550 Billion market cap and I don't think many see them today as being successful or I should say well run even though the company is still worth 372 Billion. At some point a company hits their peak, you would be hard pressed to find a company that keeps growing and stays at the top forever, or at the very least stumble.
The Apple Watch situation didn't sit well for me, if the iPhone numbers came in even a bit higher I may have looked like a total fool selling and holding for a while. Just happens things rolled my way.
Another factor were issues in China, Apple is also facing increasing competition from companies like Xiaomi Corp.
As far as what you think my issues are with Cook, if you're talking about him being gay, you couldn't be more wrong. I don't believe a CEO should be such a vocal activist, even more so when he does business in countries that commit some of the worst human atrocities. Cook is setting a bar that puts Apple under a spotlight, things like workforce diversity when to me means filling a quota instead of hiring the best person for the job. Again stay out of being an activist and concentrate on the product.
Most large companies have good workforce diversity, have given benefits to same sex couples for a long time, I work for IBM we have given same sex couples the same benefits for a very long time. Apple isn't exactly setting some kind of standard. Tim Cook tweeting about SCOTUS is out of the norm for a CEO. Cook being gay that is about as shocking as you saying the sky is blue.
Under Jobs, nothing was delayed, excellent damage control, no months-long gap between announcement and release. Oh wait, all of those things happened.
First is increased competition from Android, Microsoft, and now Chinese firms. They don't play in the same pool. Apple has increased sales with the competition. I guess any day now the will be an iPhone killer.
Since Apple said no numbers will be released, no one in their right mind expected any numbers including blockbuster numbers.
boom. nailed it.
AltApple -- one of the remaining trolls here. Mac_128, too.
uh, no. how do we know that? you're making things up to fit your narrative.
aaaand there it is.
what on earth...? do you have no personal interests outside of work? how boring.
and you can thank social activists for that.
Exactly! For example, that would be like saying Dell should take itself private. No way possible.
Oh…wait…
Dell the corporation did not buy itself with its own money. Michael Dell and investment firms raised the money (debt offerings) to buy the public shares, after which "they" owned the company Dell. It was then de-listed from the public exchanges. Dell the corporation's cash flow did not buy its own shares. Sure, once in the hands of its new owners, the cash flow is used to service the debt.