what does post number have to do with anything? please tell me how a bigger screen with the same OS will make any difference? PRO means it should be good for PROFESSIONALS. iOS is not good for professional use.
what does post number have to do with anything? you sound like a fanboy who will buy anything the put out. please tell me how a bigger screen with the same OS will make any difference? PRO means it should be good for PROFESSIONALS. iOS is not good for professional use.
1) And another telltale sign, calling people "fanboys" and saying I'll buy anything Apple puts out.
2) It won't be the same OS just as iOS on the iPhone is not the same OS as iOS on the iPad or the same OS as iOS on the Apple TV. If you would just a moment to look at each of those you'll see that the UI is designed for the platform. This is why there are things on the iPad that are not found on the iPhone… and never will be.
3) What you want in your wildly misused and very ironic use of "professional" is to have Mac OS X on the iPad… and that's just fucking stupid. There is a reason why they stripped OS X down and then built it up with CocoaTouch for a touchscreen device.
4) **** you for saying people that use iPhones and iPads aren't professionals.
1) And another telltale sign, calling people "fanboys" and saying I'll buy anything Apple puts out.
2) It won't be the same OS just as iOS on the iPhone is not the same OS as iOS on the iPad or the same OS as iOS on the Apple TV. If you would just a moment to look at each of those you'll see that the UI is designed for the platform. This is why there are things on the iPad that are not found on the iPhone… and never will be.
3) What you want in your wildly misused and very ironic use of "professional" is to have Mac OS X on the iPad… and that's just fucking stupid. There is a reason why they stripped OS X down and then built it up with CocoaTouch for a touchscreen device.
4) **** you for saying people that use iPhones and iPads aren't professionals.
The cintiqs are good, and it's been a blessing with the battery free pen for all these years. But they too have problems.
1. Too thick glass = too much parallax. The iPad is virtually zero parallax. This will be the most significant lead over Wacom.
2. Precision issues. The fact that Cintiqs need to be user calibrated says it all. You need to take into account stuff like viewing angle, because of the parallax problem.
3. Probably due to the inductive, magnetic, passive design it doesn't at all sense the tip of the pen, but rather sensors inside the pen, pin pointing where the tip is located. This method is not as precise as actually sensing the tip on the glass.
4. Charging could be designed elegantly, like magnetising the stylus to the side of the iPad to an inductive charging area.
5. Current Bluetooth is really low power, so I think there'll be few occasions where battery will pose a problem. They could potentially use NFC? I don't know how battery use and NFC? But as you hinted at(?), a whole office with Bluetooth devices might prove troublesome.
When is the last time you worked with a Cintiq (or any Wacom Tablet)? The first ones had some of those issues (though never to anywhere near the degree you're implying), but in the current versions of the tech precision is its hallmark. No one else has even comes close to designing a pen on screen solution that offers the kind of precision that Wacom has. Sensing the actual tip of the pen on the screen rather than tracking the device electronically is the reason why they are more precise and more sensitive than other solutions.
I'll admit a bias, I been using Cintiqs (and other Wacom tablets) on all my Macs (at work and at home) for over 25 years. I've tried everything else that other vendors have come up with, and everything else has really sucked hard. There's a reason why anyone who is serious about professional pen on screen solutions licenses the tech from Wacom. Only the ones who are just dabbling and aren't really sure what they want to do with it try to do it themselves. That's what's got me both excited and worried about what Apple will do with a "pro" tablet. They could make something that really raises the bar for portable professional tools, but they have a long history of telling professionals "you don't need that" in relation to the very thing they need the most. I look at devices like the Surface Pro, the Modbook Pro, and the Cintiq Companion and think, "imagine how much better Apple could make this?" Then I think how openly hostile Apple has been to even the idea of a stylus and I start to cringe.
I really hope I am wrong. I want this to be a great thing. I'm just very worried that Apple doesn't actually understand what people will want to use such a device for.
In the same way that a 1024x768 screen isn’t for professionals but 2560x1440 is.
Not sure how this alone makes it for professional use. Did the "retina" screen make the iPhone 4 an iPhone Pro? Is the iPhone 6 plus any more "pro" than the 6 simply because the screen is bigger? There is nothing you can do with an iPad you can't do with an iPhone. There are MANY things you can do with a mb or mbp that you simply cannot with an iPad.
Many professionals have used the 1024X768 screen for ages. Screen resolution has little or nothing to do with whether or not something can be used in a professional setting (depending of course on what one's profession is)... software does, and iOS is limited for many tasks simply because Apple wants it to be so.
Citation needed:
If you want examples of why iOS is limited I can name you a few, but the truth is there are too many to list. Here is a simple one... There is no "save file"... I've had to jump through hoops when emailed a PDF that I needed digitally signed and sent to another party. Is it iOS' fault? Well that depends if you think there are some basic functions missing (on purpose in my opinion) that are then left up to the responsibility of the App makers. If they fail to implement the functionality, or fail to do so well, the user is left having to find workarounds to SIMPLE tasks. Someone sends you a music file and you want to add it to your music? Nope, can't do that. Really? That's so basic. These limitations are there on purpose. Why can't you just have a storage app, so you can save a file, rename it, send it to someone, etc? My Nokia e71 had that!
Clearly no one here is going to agree, so enjoy your giant iPads. I'll keep using my iPhone with its purposely crippled iOS for things it allows, and I'll use my MBP and MB for everything else.
[quote name="Macky the Macky" url="/t/187939/ipad-pro-parts-shipments-starting-in-sept-with-new-display-tech-suppliers-report#post_2768197"] Apple invests where their money is. When the USA government finally allows Apple to bring the money home without taxing it again, they will invest it here more then elsewhere, So, you make a false assumption to come to even a worse conclusion.
By the way, it's not Apple commercials that show adults dancing around like children; Microsoft holds that distinction with their early Surface commercials. Now, crawl back under your rock.[/quote
When is the last time you worked with a Cintiq (or any Wacom Tablet)? The first ones had some of those issues (though never to anywhere near the degree you're implying), but in the current versions of the tech precision is its hallmark. No one else has even comes close to designing a pen on screen solution that offers the kind of precision that Wacom has. Sensing the actual tip of the pen on the screen rather than tracking the device electronically is the reason why they are more precise and more sensitive than other solutions.
I'll admit a bias, I been using Cintiqs (and other Wacom tablets) on all my Macs (at work and at home) for over 25 years. I've tried everything else that other vendors have come up with, and everything else has really sucked hard. There's a reason why anyone who is serious about professional pen on screen solutions licenses the tech from Wacom. Only the ones who are just dabbling and aren't really sure what they want to do with it try to do it themselves. That's what's got me both excited and worried about what Apple will do with a "pro" tablet. They could make something that really raises the bar for portable professional tools, but they have a long history of telling professionals "you don't need that" in relation to the very thing they need the most. I look at devices like the Surface Pro, the Modbook Pro, and the Cintiq Companion and think, "imagine how much better Apple could make this?" Then I think how openly hostile Apple has been to even the idea of a stylus and I start to cringe.
I really hope I am wrong. I want this to be a great thing. I'm just very worried that Apple doesn't actually understand what people will want to use such a device for.
I'm an animator, and I'm working with Cintiqs every day. I've had four Cintiqs over the years.. The points I mentioned really bugs me, every day. But perhaps the biggest issue is the low resolution. They keep making bigger Cintiqs, without significantly increasing the dpi. If you hide the cursor it would be nearly impossible to use the Cintiq. It's still not precise enough to do that.
The 13 inch Cintiq is the only model that has made advancements in any of my complaints, imo, but I find it too small to be used professionally. So in this regard the iPad or will be too small as well.
Panasonic has made a 4k 20" tablet. I'd be very interested to try it. They made a really huge stylus though, lol.. Wtf
I think Wacom hasn't faced any real competition, so I think both users and the company has become lazy, and satisfied. The last years though they've been picking up development though.
Not sure how a high post count proves he's not a fanboy. If anything, being so obssessed with all things Apple, and reacting so personally because I do not think there is any viable reason (other than to sell more iPads to everyone who has to own the latest Apple everything) to make a iPad pro if its going to run iOS, with its severe limitations, further proves he's just that.
Not sure how this alone makes it for professional use. Did the "retina" screen make the iPhone 4 an iPhone Pro? Is the iPhone 6 plus any more "pro" than the 6 simply because the screen is bigger? There is nothing you can do with an iPad you can't do with an iPhone. There are MANY things you can do with a mb or mbp that you simply cannot with an iPad.
Many professionals have used the 1024X768 screen for ages. Screen resolution has little or nothing to do with whether or not something can be used in a professional setting (depending of course on what one's profession is)... software does, and iOS is limited for many tasks simply because Apple wants it to be so.
Citation needed:
If you want examples of why iOS is limited I can name you a few, but the truth is there are too many to list. Here is a simple one... There is no "save file"... I've had to jump through hoops when emailed a PDF that I needed digitally signed and sent to another party. Is it iOS' fault? Well that depends if you think there are some basic functions missing (on purpose in my opinion) that are then left up to the responsibility of the App makers. If they fail to implement the functionality, or fail to do so well, the user is left having to find workarounds to SIMPLE tasks. Someone sends you a music file and you want to add it to your music? Nope, can't do that. Really? That's so basic. These limitations are there on purpose. Why can't you just have a storage app, so you can save a file, rename it, send it to someone, etc? My Nokia e71 had that!
Clearly no one here is going to agree, so enjoy your giant iPads. I'll keep using my iPhone with its purposely crippled iOS for things it allows, and I'll use my MBP and MB for everything else.
Anyone using "Fanboy" non ironically or as a self-reference is ignored automatically; think I'll need a AI A.I. script dedicated just for that...
I kinda like that focus is being put on China in the current political debate. The problem is will everything be forgotten after the election?
Is it ever any different?
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas
I think Wacom hasn't faced any real competition, so I think both users and the company has become lazy, and satisfied. The last years though they've been picking up development though.
Wacom has terrible manufacturing, but some of the other complaints aren't really valid. They basically sourced the panels that were available when they came out with the 24 and 27" models. A 4K panel would not have been feasible a year ago. Companies that cater to a smaller professional segment tend to be a bit more conservative on these things. The cost is a big issue for them due to a smaller market, and they have much tighter requirements for certain things.
An example would be LED backlighting. Earlier ones had a really cold white point. I've tried to explain to color temperature and display hardware to others, but no one ever gets it. The details aren't that important, but it certainly slowed down adoption by certain companies. Apple doesn't have to care, because that isn't their only focus. A lot of people also buy from Apple so it's easy to find information as to how something works alongside existing equipment. someone will have purchased and tested one. Other companies don't necessarily have that luxury.
Oh and there's a reason they haven't faced competition. It's not worth the risk trying to take over that market. No one sees an opportunity to make money there. They would need something incredibly disruptive, and it's not an interesting proposition for any larger company. When you mention Panasonic, that's tech porn, not a tool.
Wacom has terrible manufacturing, but some of the other complaints aren't really valid. They basically sourced the panels that were available when they came out with the 24 and 27" models. A 4K panel would not have been feasible a year ago. Companies that cater to a smaller professional segment tend to be a bit more conservative on these things. The cost is a big issue for them due to a smaller market, and they have much tighter requirements for certain things.
An example would be LED backlighting. Earlier ones had a really cold white point. I've tried to explain to color temperature and display hardware to others, but no one ever gets it. The details aren't that important, but it certainly slowed down adoption by certain companies. Apple doesn't have to care, because that isn't their only focus. A lot of people also buy from Apple so it's easy to find information as to how something works alongside existing equipment. someone will have purchased and tested one. Other companies don't necessarily have that luxury.
Oh and there's a reason they haven't faced competition. It's not worth the risk trying to take over that market. No one sees an opportunity to make money there. They would need something incredibly disruptive, and it's not an interesting proposition for any larger company. When you mention Panasonic, that's tech porn, not a tool.
I absolutely hear what you're saying. Yeah the colour temperature has been a real frustration. But their current models has gotten pretty trustworthy in this regards, I'd say. Not the best black levels, in part due to the coating I guess, but very solid colours. No crazy colour deviations. Especially for film. Perhaps not for print or web? The 13" however, disturbingly cold LED stuff. Yuck.
And yeah, that Panasonic thing is probably not yet a real alternative. But they're doing it, and it's a first step. It's interesting.
4K will probably be more wide spread in the coming years. I think the problem with pen displays is that you tend to work close to the screen, and then pixel density becomes a real issue. A 90-100dpi Wacom screen is just terrible from that distance. There's no real precision, especially for drawing, and especially for drawn 2D animation.. And, I'd imagine, precise CAD stuff. Now they went ahead and created an even bigger screen, without increasing the DPI, and call it QHD.. Super big pixels, super big 27" screen. I don't see the reasoning there. Why not a 20" with the same QHD pixel count? Because they just show around, instead of creating their own specifications?
I don't think Apple will see Wacom as a key competitor here though. In the Apple bubble I think they've noticed other things than Wacom posting a threat.
The iPad has been embraced as an art creation platform, but the current stylus solutions are terrible. When even Adobe is creating a stylus hardware to make a big bet on the iPad platform there's a true indication that something needs to be done. I think Apple finds it important to preserve this image, of being the artist creation tool of choice.
Precision, low latency pen input is one key factor for going pro in a number of fields. Medical, CAD, media creation, hand writing, education, video editing, etc.
On a side note, I think Apple would never accept parallax issue. The current iPad glass is super thin. Touching it with a thin point feels like touching the image. On a Cintiq, it's like a full mm above the image... or even more. It's quite terrible. A perfect pen display shouldn't need a visible cursor.
There is nothing you can do with an iPad you can't do with an iPhone.
Blatant lies and you know it. Either you have hands straight from the womb or feel free to tell us how you’re going to type with all ten fingers on an iPhone. And that’s just interaction!
Many professionals have used the 1024X768 screen for ages.
In the third world, yeah. Is there anyone left here who uses something so small?
Screen resolution has little or nothing to do with whether or not something can be used in a professional setting
Which is why so many softwares now demand minimum resolutions above a certain size, right?
If you want examples of why iOS is limited I can name you a few, but the truth is there are too many to list.
But I don’t. I want proof that it can’t be used in a professional setting when 100% of the S&P 500 uses iOS devices.
Here is a simple one... There is no "save file"...
“Welcome to the 1983-2007 part of the museum. On this part of the tour, we take a look at the era of manual saving and give some theoretical calculations as to the man-hours lost, emotions strained, and the damage done to society by software on which you could lose work if you forgot to do something or if the power went out.”
Oh, and by this count, no Mac can be used professionally since OS X also auto-saves.
My Nokia e71 had that!
And we all know what a success that device was.
Clearly no one here is going to agree, so enjoy your giant iPads.
“WAAAAA IPAD IS JUST A BIG IPOD TOUCH YOU NO AGREE ENJOY YOUR GIANT IPOD TOUCHES”
what does post number have to do with anything? please tell me how a bigger screen with the same OS will make any difference? PRO means it should be good for PROFESSIONALS. iOS is not good for professional use.
You're assuming it's going to be called iPad Pro. I don't know where it started but every tech publication / rumor site has now run with the "Pro" moniker. For all we know it could be called iPad Plus, kind of like how the bigger iPhone is called 6 Plus, not 6 Pro.
Blatant lies and you know it. Either you have hands straight from the womb or feel free to tell us how you’re going to type with all ten fingers on an iPhone. And that’s just interaction!
In the third world, yeah. Is there anyone left here who uses something so small?
Which is why so many softwares now demand minimum resolutions above a certain size, right?
But I don’t. I want proof that it can’t be used in a professional setting when 100% of the S&P 500 uses iOS devices.
“Welcome to the 1983-2007 part of the museum. On this part of the tour, we take a look at the era of manual saving and give some theoretical calculations as to the man-hours lost, emotions strained, and the damage done to society by software on which you could lose work if you forgot to do something or if the power went out.”
Oh, and by this count, no Mac can be used professionally since OS X also auto-saves.
And we all know what a success that device was.
“WAAAAA IPAD IS JUST A BIG IPOD TOUCH YOU NO AGREE ENJOY YOUR GIANT IPOD TOUCHES”
– You, January 2010
You totally missed the point of saving a file. It's not a matter of clicking "File... Save". Its a matter of receiving a file in your email and being able to do something with it. Currently, if there isn't an app that handles it, you can't do anything with it. Funny thing is, while reading about the new Macbook on another site, someone brought up how with the upcoming processors, and rumored iPad "pro", the line between the two continually becomes more blurred (price point, processing power, mobility, etc). There was a discussion about exactly the point I brought up on this thread and the vast majority agreed that OS X is vastly more powerful and useful for professional use than iOS.
You totally missed the point of saving a file. It's not a matter of clicking "File... Save".
You're claiming that files aren't saved in iOS because it's not 1987 where you have to explicitly tell the app to save your work in case of a system issue. Good one¡
Its a matter of receiving a file in your email and being able to do something with it.
Like everyone already does with iOS. I also send out files via Mail, Gmail, and countless other apps… but maybe I'm lying¡
Currently, if there isn't an app that handles it, you can't do anything with it.
Nope, can't do anything with any file in any app on iOS. Is this because it's a "toy" OS?
But you are not a rational person. You are a true iDIOT like everyone else on this board. Nothing but fanboys who cannot handle anyone criticizing their precious Apple. Look at all the responses.. nothing but children responding like if someone told them "Yo momma so fat...". Funny thing is, while reading about the new Macbook on another site, someone brought up how with the upcoming processors, and rumored iPad "pro", the line between the two continually becomes more blurred (price point, processing power, mobility, etc). There was a discussion about exactly the point I brought up on this thread and the vast majority agreed that OS X is vastly more powerful and useful for professional use than iOS. You aren't going to see that while living in your fat mom's basement, so with that, I'm out. I'll visit other sites where adults and professionals can discuss pros and cons of a PRODUCT that a COMPANY puts out, without crying about it like petulant children. You are all fanboys, btw. All I had to do was look at your other posts to see that all any of you do is praise Apple and jump on anyone who criticizes them in anyway. L O S E R S.I will no longer be notified when one of you iDIOTS responds so you can all have fun in your circle jerk by yourselves. Seems like after trying to be rational with you all and receiving the responses I did, this is the only way to talk to you adolescents. Enjoy the basement.
There isn't one rational or reasonable comment in the 5 years you've been posting here. You started off with personal attacks when your ridiculous comments were explained line by line, but this last post just lays it on. Yikes!
I absolutely hear what you're saying. Yeah the colour temperature has been a real frustration. But their current models has gotten pretty trustworthy in this regards, I'd say. Not the best black levels, in part due to the coating I guess, but very solid colours. No crazy colour deviations. Especially for film. Perhaps not for print or web? The 13" however, disturbingly cold LED stuff. Yuck.
And yeah, that Panasonic thing is probably not yet a real alternative. But they're doing it, and it's a first step. It's interesting.
The color temperature issue is basically solved by moving to newer panel designs where it's less of a problem. Trying to use only a narrower voltage range to correct the offset from the backlight would really constrain your gamut. Some people assume they can create a device profile that maps it to something more like 6500K on an input of r = g = b. That always looks awful and even worse than it would look if applied at a hardware level. They usually just update it with a future generation. For example the older macbook pros measure around a 8000K white. That isn't ideal, but using an LED backlight at that time meant cold whites. The rmbp displays are much more similar to sRGB and 6500K (well not every sRGB profile uses exactly that, but I'm not getting into that).
Quote:
4K will probably be more wide spread in the coming years. I think the problem with pen displays is that you tend to work close to the screen, and then pixel density becomes a real issue. A 90-100dpi Wacom screen is just terrible from that distance. There's no real precision, especially for drawing, and especially for drawn 2D animation.. And, I'd imagine, precise CAD stuff. Now they went ahead and created an even bigger screen, without increasing the DPI, and call it QHD.. Super big pixels, super big 27" screen. I don't see the reasoning there. Why not a 20" with the same QHD pixel count? Because they just show around, instead of creating their own specifications?
It's much harder and much more expensive to make that higher density 20" than it is to make a 27" with stable technology. That was part of my earlier point. Creating their own specifications isn't something that a company of Wacom's size can really afford. That's why I think they'll use 4K or 5K when they are closer to being the norm in display technology.
Even Apple has a high minimum sale on their higher resolution devices, and they have far more purchasing power. It's an extreme misdirection to compare Wacom to the iPad or any of the idevices. Wacom doesn't sell millions of cintiqs annually. The market for them isn't that large.
Quote:
I don't think Apple will see Wacom as a key competitor here though. In the Apple bubble I think they've noticed other things than Wacom posting a threat.
The iPad has been embraced as an art creation platform, but the current stylus solutions are terrible. When even Adobe is creating a stylus hardware to make a big bet on the iPad platform there's a true indication that something needs to be done. I think Apple finds it important to preserve this image, of being the artist creation tool of choice.
Precision, low latency pen input is one key factor for going pro in a number of fields. Medical, CAD, media creation, hand writing, education, video editing, etc.
On a side note, I think Apple would never accept parallax issue. The current iPad glass is super thin. Touching it with a thin point feels like touching the image. On a Cintiq, it's like a full mm above the image... or even more. It's quite terrible. A perfect pen display shouldn't need a visible cursor.
Apple hasn't really courted any of these solutions. They make something and others know that they sell their own solutions based on something made by Apple. The brand recognition is there, so third party stuff shows up if the development costs are feasible. It's actually much easier to go with Apple there than something like Android, because you would only have to validate a small number of devices.
I disagree that it has been fully embraced as an art creation platform. It's probably popular among artists, but I don't see any signs of it being a primary creative tool. It works well as a sketching tool, not so much as a primary platform. It's missing too much software that's needed for commercial use. Companies like Adobe tend to release feature limited versions due to the average app price.
Comments
what does post number have to do with anything? please tell me how a bigger screen with the same OS will make any difference? PRO means it should be good for PROFESSIONALS. iOS is not good for professional use.
1) And another telltale sign, calling people "fanboys" and saying I'll buy anything Apple puts out.
2) It won't be the same OS just as iOS on the iPhone is not the same OS as iOS on the iPad or the same OS as iOS on the Apple TV. If you would just a moment to look at each of those you'll see that the UI is designed for the platform. This is why there are things on the iPad that are not found on the iPhone… and never will be.
3) What you want in your wildly misused and very ironic use of "professional" is to have Mac OS X on the iPad… and that's just fucking stupid. There is a reason why they stripped OS X down and then built it up with CocoaTouch for a touchscreen device.
4) **** you for saying people that use iPhones and iPads aren't professionals.
1) And another telltale sign, calling people "fanboys" and saying I'll buy anything Apple puts out.
2) It won't be the same OS just as iOS on the iPhone is not the same OS as iOS on the iPad or the same OS as iOS on the Apple TV. If you would just a moment to look at each of those you'll see that the UI is designed for the platform. This is why there are things on the iPad that are not found on the iPhone… and never will be.
3) What you want in your wildly misused and very ironic use of "professional" is to have Mac OS X on the iPad… and that's just fucking stupid. There is a reason why they stripped OS X down and then built it up with CocoaTouch for a touchscreen device.
4) **** you for saying people that use iPhones and iPads aren't professionals.
Farjamed just attended my "Block" Party.
Fair point.
And yet his post (count) would prove otherwise.
In the same way that a 1024x768 screen isn’t for professionals but 2560x1440 is.
[citation needed]
When is the last time you worked with a Cintiq (or any Wacom Tablet)? The first ones had some of those issues (though never to anywhere near the degree you're implying), but in the current versions of the tech precision is its hallmark. No one else has even comes close to designing a pen on screen solution that offers the kind of precision that Wacom has. Sensing the actual tip of the pen on the screen rather than tracking the device electronically is the reason why they are more precise and more sensitive than other solutions.
I'll admit a bias, I been using Cintiqs (and other Wacom tablets) on all my Macs (at work and at home) for over 25 years. I've tried everything else that other vendors have come up with, and everything else has really sucked hard. There's a reason why anyone who is serious about professional pen on screen solutions licenses the tech from Wacom. Only the ones who are just dabbling and aren't really sure what they want to do with it try to do it themselves. That's what's got me both excited and worried about what Apple will do with a "pro" tablet. They could make something that really raises the bar for portable professional tools, but they have a long history of telling professionals "you don't need that" in relation to the very thing they need the most. I look at devices like the Surface Pro, the Modbook Pro, and the Cintiq Companion and think, "imagine how much better Apple could make this?" Then I think how openly hostile Apple has been to even the idea of a stylus and I start to cringe.
I really hope I am wrong. I want this to be a great thing. I'm just very worried that Apple doesn't actually understand what people will want to use such a device for.
In the same way that a 1024x768 screen isn’t for professionals but 2560x1440 is.
Not sure how this alone makes it for professional use. Did the "retina" screen make the iPhone 4 an iPhone Pro? Is the iPhone 6 plus any more "pro" than the 6 simply because the screen is bigger? There is nothing you can do with an iPad you can't do with an iPhone. There are MANY things you can do with a mb or mbp that you simply cannot with an iPad.
Many professionals have used the 1024X768 screen for ages. Screen resolution has little or nothing to do with whether or not something can be used in a professional setting (depending of course on what one's profession is)... software does, and iOS is limited for many tasks simply because Apple wants it to be so.
Citation needed:
If you want examples of why iOS is limited I can name you a few, but the truth is there are too many to list. Here is a simple one... There is no "save file"... I've had to jump through hoops when emailed a PDF that I needed digitally signed and sent to another party. Is it iOS' fault? Well that depends if you think there are some basic functions missing (on purpose in my opinion) that are then left up to the responsibility of the App makers. If they fail to implement the functionality, or fail to do so well, the user is left having to find workarounds to SIMPLE tasks. Someone sends you a music file and you want to add it to your music? Nope, can't do that. Really? That's so basic. These limitations are there on purpose. Why can't you just have a storage app, so you can save a file, rename it, send it to someone, etc? My Nokia e71 had that!
Clearly no one here is going to agree, so enjoy your giant iPads. I'll keep using my iPhone with its purposely crippled iOS for things it allows, and I'll use my MBP and MB for everything else.
Apple invests where their money is. When the USA government finally allows Apple to bring the money home without taxing it again, they will invest it here more then elsewhere,
So, you make a false assumption to come to even a worse conclusion.
By the way, it's not Apple commercials that show adults dancing around like children; Microsoft holds that distinction with their early Surface commercials. Now, crawl back under your rock.[/quote
Your kinda a dick aren't you
I'm an animator, and I'm working with Cintiqs every day. I've had four Cintiqs over the years.. The points I mentioned really bugs me, every day. But perhaps the biggest issue is the low resolution. They keep making bigger Cintiqs, without significantly increasing the dpi. If you hide the cursor it would be nearly impossible to use the Cintiq. It's still not precise enough to do that.
The 13 inch Cintiq is the only model that has made advancements in any of my complaints, imo, but I find it too small to be used professionally. So in this regard the iPad or will be too small as well.
Panasonic has made a 4k 20" tablet. I'd be very interested to try it. They made a really huge stylus though, lol.. Wtf
I think Wacom hasn't faced any real competition, so I think both users and the company has become lazy, and satisfied. The last years though they've been picking up development though.
Not sure how a high post count proves he's not a fanboy. If anything, being so obssessed with all things Apple, and reacting so personally because I do not think there is any viable reason (other than to sell more iPads to everyone who has to own the latest Apple everything) to make a iPad pro if its going to run iOS, with its severe limitations, further proves he's just that.
Not sure how this alone makes it for professional use. Did the "retina" screen make the iPhone 4 an iPhone Pro? Is the iPhone 6 plus any more "pro" than the 6 simply because the screen is bigger? There is nothing you can do with an iPad you can't do with an iPhone. There are MANY things you can do with a mb or mbp that you simply cannot with an iPad.
Many professionals have used the 1024X768 screen for ages. Screen resolution has little or nothing to do with whether or not something can be used in a professional setting (depending of course on what one's profession is)... software does, and iOS is limited for many tasks simply because Apple wants it to be so.
Citation needed:
If you want examples of why iOS is limited I can name you a few, but the truth is there are too many to list. Here is a simple one... There is no "save file"... I've had to jump through hoops when emailed a PDF that I needed digitally signed and sent to another party. Is it iOS' fault? Well that depends if you think there are some basic functions missing (on purpose in my opinion) that are then left up to the responsibility of the App makers. If they fail to implement the functionality, or fail to do so well, the user is left having to find workarounds to SIMPLE tasks. Someone sends you a music file and you want to add it to your music? Nope, can't do that. Really? That's so basic. These limitations are there on purpose. Why can't you just have a storage app, so you can save a file, rename it, send it to someone, etc? My Nokia e71 had that!
Clearly no one here is going to agree, so enjoy your giant iPads. I'll keep using my iPhone with its purposely crippled iOS for things it allows, and I'll use my MBP and MB for everything else.
Anyone using "Fanboy" non ironically or as a self-reference is ignored automatically; think I'll need a AI A.I. script dedicated just for that...
I kinda like that focus is being put on China in the current political debate. The problem is will everything be forgotten after the election?
Is it ever any different?
I think Wacom hasn't faced any real competition, so I think both users and the company has become lazy, and satisfied. The last years though they've been picking up development though.
Wacom has terrible manufacturing, but some of the other complaints aren't really valid. They basically sourced the panels that were available when they came out with the 24 and 27" models. A 4K panel would not have been feasible a year ago. Companies that cater to a smaller professional segment tend to be a bit more conservative on these things. The cost is a big issue for them due to a smaller market, and they have much tighter requirements for certain things.
An example would be LED backlighting. Earlier ones had a really cold white point. I've tried to explain to color temperature and display hardware to others, but no one ever gets it. The details aren't that important, but it certainly slowed down adoption by certain companies. Apple doesn't have to care, because that isn't their only focus. A lot of people also buy from Apple so it's easy to find information as to how something works alongside existing equipment. someone will have purchased and tested one. Other companies don't necessarily have that luxury.
Oh and there's a reason they haven't faced competition. It's not worth the risk trying to take over that market. No one sees an opportunity to make money there. They would need something incredibly disruptive, and it's not an interesting proposition for any larger company. When you mention Panasonic, that's tech porn, not a tool.
Wacom has terrible manufacturing, but some of the other complaints aren't really valid. They basically sourced the panels that were available when they came out with the 24 and 27" models. A 4K panel would not have been feasible a year ago. Companies that cater to a smaller professional segment tend to be a bit more conservative on these things. The cost is a big issue for them due to a smaller market, and they have much tighter requirements for certain things.
An example would be LED backlighting. Earlier ones had a really cold white point. I've tried to explain to color temperature and display hardware to others, but no one ever gets it. The details aren't that important, but it certainly slowed down adoption by certain companies. Apple doesn't have to care, because that isn't their only focus. A lot of people also buy from Apple so it's easy to find information as to how something works alongside existing equipment. someone will have purchased and tested one. Other companies don't necessarily have that luxury.
Oh and there's a reason they haven't faced competition. It's not worth the risk trying to take over that market. No one sees an opportunity to make money there. They would need something incredibly disruptive, and it's not an interesting proposition for any larger company. When you mention Panasonic, that's tech porn, not a tool.
I absolutely hear what you're saying. Yeah the colour temperature has been a real frustration. But their current models has gotten pretty trustworthy in this regards, I'd say. Not the best black levels, in part due to the coating I guess, but very solid colours. No crazy colour deviations. Especially for film. Perhaps not for print or web? The 13" however, disturbingly cold LED stuff. Yuck.
And yeah, that Panasonic thing is probably not yet a real alternative. But they're doing it, and it's a first step. It's interesting.
4K will probably be more wide spread in the coming years. I think the problem with pen displays is that you tend to work close to the screen, and then pixel density becomes a real issue. A 90-100dpi Wacom screen is just terrible from that distance. There's no real precision, especially for drawing, and especially for drawn 2D animation.. And, I'd imagine, precise CAD stuff. Now they went ahead and created an even bigger screen, without increasing the DPI, and call it QHD.. Super big pixels, super big 27" screen. I don't see the reasoning there. Why not a 20" with the same QHD pixel count? Because they just show around, instead of creating their own specifications?
I don't think Apple will see Wacom as a key competitor here though. In the Apple bubble I think they've noticed other things than Wacom posting a threat.
On a side note, I think Apple would never accept parallax issue. The current iPad glass is super thin. Touching it with a thin point feels like touching the image. On a Cintiq, it's like a full mm above the image... or even more. It's quite terrible. A perfect pen display shouldn't need a visible cursor.
Blatant lies and you know it. Either you have hands straight from the womb or feel free to tell us how you’re going to type with all ten fingers on an iPhone. And that’s just interaction!
In the third world, yeah. Is there anyone left here who uses something so small?
Which is why so many softwares now demand minimum resolutions above a certain size, right?
But I don’t. I want proof that it can’t be used in a professional setting when 100% of the S&P 500 uses iOS devices.
“Welcome to the 1983-2007 part of the museum. On this part of the tour, we take a look at the era of manual saving and give some theoretical calculations as to the man-hours lost, emotions strained, and the damage done to society by software on which you could lose work if you forgot to do something or if the power went out.”
Oh, and by this count, no Mac can be used professionally since OS X also auto-saves.
And we all know what a success that device was.
“WAAAAA IPAD IS JUST A BIG IPOD TOUCH YOU NO AGREE ENJOY YOUR GIANT IPOD TOUCHES”
– You, January 2010
The fool is far from jammed!
what does post number have to do with anything? please tell me how a bigger screen with the same OS will make any difference? PRO means it should be good for PROFESSIONALS. iOS is not good for professional use.
You're assuming it's going to be called iPad Pro. I don't know where it started but every tech publication / rumor site has now run with the "Pro" moniker. For all we know it could be called iPad Plus, kind of like how the bigger iPhone is called 6 Plus, not 6 Pro.
Blatant lies and you know it. Either you have hands straight from the womb or feel free to tell us how you’re going to type with all ten fingers on an iPhone. And that’s just interaction!
In the third world, yeah. Is there anyone left here who uses something so small?
Which is why so many softwares now demand minimum resolutions above a certain size, right?
But I don’t. I want proof that it can’t be used in a professional setting when 100% of the S&P 500 uses iOS devices.
“Welcome to the 1983-2007 part of the museum. On this part of the tour, we take a look at the era of manual saving and give some theoretical calculations as to the man-hours lost, emotions strained, and the damage done to society by software on which you could lose work if you forgot to do something or if the power went out.”
Oh, and by this count, no Mac can be used professionally since OS X also auto-saves.
And we all know what a success that device was.
“WAAAAA IPAD IS JUST A BIG IPOD TOUCH YOU NO AGREE ENJOY YOUR GIANT IPOD TOUCHES”
– You, January 2010
You totally missed the point of saving a file. It's not a matter of clicking "File... Save". Its a matter of receiving a file in your email and being able to do something with it. Currently, if there isn't an app that handles it, you can't do anything with it. Funny thing is, while reading about the new Macbook on another site, someone brought up how with the upcoming processors, and rumored iPad "pro", the line between the two continually becomes more blurred (price point, processing power, mobility, etc). There was a discussion about exactly the point I brought up on this thread and the vast majority agreed that OS X is vastly more powerful and useful for professional use than iOS.
You're claiming that files aren't saved in iOS because it's not 1987 where you have to explicitly tell the app to save your work in case of a system issue. Good one¡
Like everyone already does with iOS. I also send out files via Mail, Gmail, and countless other apps… but maybe I'm lying¡
Nope, can't do anything with any file in any app on iOS. Is this because it's a "toy" OS?
There isn't one rational or reasonable comment in the 5 years you've been posting here. You started off with personal attacks when your ridiculous comments were explained line by line, but this last post just lays it on. Yikes!
I absolutely hear what you're saying. Yeah the colour temperature has been a real frustration. But their current models has gotten pretty trustworthy in this regards, I'd say. Not the best black levels, in part due to the coating I guess, but very solid colours. No crazy colour deviations. Especially for film. Perhaps not for print or web? The 13" however, disturbingly cold LED stuff. Yuck.
And yeah, that Panasonic thing is probably not yet a real alternative. But they're doing it, and it's a first step. It's interesting.
The color temperature issue is basically solved by moving to newer panel designs where it's less of a problem. Trying to use only a narrower voltage range to correct the offset from the backlight would really constrain your gamut. Some people assume they can create a device profile that maps it to something more like 6500K on an input of r = g = b. That always looks awful and even worse than it would look if applied at a hardware level. They usually just update it with a future generation. For example the older macbook pros measure around a 8000K white. That isn't ideal, but using an LED backlight at that time meant cold whites. The rmbp displays are much more similar to sRGB and 6500K (well not every sRGB profile uses exactly that, but I'm not getting into that).
4K will probably be more wide spread in the coming years. I think the problem with pen displays is that you tend to work close to the screen, and then pixel density becomes a real issue. A 90-100dpi Wacom screen is just terrible from that distance. There's no real precision, especially for drawing, and especially for drawn 2D animation.. And, I'd imagine, precise CAD stuff. Now they went ahead and created an even bigger screen, without increasing the DPI, and call it QHD.. Super big pixels, super big 27" screen. I don't see the reasoning there. Why not a 20" with the same QHD pixel count? Because they just show around, instead of creating their own specifications?
It's much harder and much more expensive to make that higher density 20" than it is to make a 27" with stable technology. That was part of my earlier point. Creating their own specifications isn't something that a company of Wacom's size can really afford. That's why I think they'll use 4K or 5K when they are closer to being the norm in display technology.
Even Apple has a high minimum sale on their higher resolution devices, and they have far more purchasing power. It's an extreme misdirection to compare Wacom to the iPad or any of the idevices. Wacom doesn't sell millions of cintiqs annually. The market for them isn't that large.
Quote:
I don't think Apple will see Wacom as a key competitor here though. In the Apple bubble I think they've noticed other things than Wacom posting a threat.
On a side note, I think Apple would never accept parallax issue. The current iPad glass is super thin. Touching it with a thin point feels like touching the image. On a Cintiq, it's like a full mm above the image... or even more. It's quite terrible. A perfect pen display shouldn't need a visible cursor.
Apple hasn't really courted any of these solutions. They make something and others know that they sell their own solutions based on something made by Apple. The brand recognition is there, so third party stuff shows up if the development costs are feasible. It's actually much easier to go with Apple there than something like Android, because you would only have to validate a small number of devices.
I disagree that it has been fully embraced as an art creation platform. It's probably popular among artists, but I don't see any signs of it being a primary creative tool. It works well as a sketching tool, not so much as a primary platform. It's missing too much software that's needed for commercial use. Companies like Adobe tend to release feature limited versions due to the average app price.