Apple installs banners, flags at Bill Graham Civic Auditorium ahead of Sept. 9 event

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  • Reply 21 of 56
    zabazaba Posts: 226member
    polymnia wrote: »
    Best of luck to those pros. They wouldn't find much work in my business without adobe chops.

    I imagine that an iPad pro with a Wacom tech pen and the power to run photoshop bloatware would make a pretty good setup to run svelte non-Adobe creative software even better? So a win for the anti-adobe crowd as well?
    I'm talking about freelance pros, we can't replace inDesign, but everything that feeds in to it can be replaced in a production environment (for most work). I've grown up on Adobe products, or should I say Aldus and macromedia. I always hated illustrator and always used freehand until it's demise. Jumped from quark to inDesign when quark took too long to support os x. I've been in the industry for 28 years, you need to open your mind, it's not the software it's the person that is the creative, these are just tools.
  • Reply 22 of 56
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,077member

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post

     

     

    Hardly. You should be asking me if I still use Freehand or Pagemaker. When I got started in this business those were the standard Illustration and Page Layout applications respectively. I survived the switch from Freehand to Illustrator, and learned new techniques in the process. I survived the switch from Pagemaker to Quark the same way...and then the switch to InDesign.

     

    I'm hardly against progress.

     

    I use the industry standard software, which does change over time, I'll be happy to change once the industry changes.

     

    I don't see anything on the horizon that gives me a compelling impulse to change or even makes me feel compelled to research what change might look like if it might be coming someday.

     

    The way I see it there are two camps of people interested in change:


    1. People who change because they hate the current standard and have a very high threshold for the pain in changing their workflow. These people want change badly. They do not feel effective using the standard tools available right now. They actively dislike what is being used now. They would use alternatives even if they are the only one in the workflow out of alignment. I will go ahead and lump the anti-adobe crowd into this category.

    2. People who change because their industry is coalescing around new software. The vendors, clients and collaborators are either asking for it by name or use it in their default workflow. This camp is happy to keep using the software they have now because they feel effective, but if the industry determines it's time for something new, they go along because staying relevant is the most important consideration even if it means learning new software and techniques. I'll put myself in this camp.

     

    In summary, I don't care to be characterized as inflexible or some kind of dinosaur. I'm a freelancer who takes pride in my adaptability and ability to step into new situations and workflows while staying productive. Show me a client, vendor or collaborator who needs me to work in some other software and I'll show you willingness and enthusiasm to learn it. A compelling reason to switch needs more substance than "It's not Adobe" to be relevant to me.



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by zaba View Post





    I'm talking about freelance pros, we can't replace inDesign, but everything that feeds in to it can be replaced in a production environment (for most work). I've grown up on Adobe products, or should I say Aldus and macromedia. I always hated illustrator and always used freehand until it's demise. Jumped from quark to inDesign when quark took too long to support os x. I've been in the industry for 28 years, you need to open your mind, it's not the software it's the person that is the creative, these are just tools.



    I'll refer you to my post above.

     

    I agree, it's not the software, it's the person.

     

    So I use the software the other people I work with use.

     

    I see no compelling reason to do otherwise as I'm perfectly happy with the software we have settled on.

  • Reply 23 of 56
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by zaba View Post





    I'm talking about freelance pros, we can't replace inDesign, but everything that feeds in to it can be replaced in a production environment (for most work). I've grown up on Adobe products, or should I say Aldus and macromedia. I always hated illustrator and always used freehand until it's demise. Jumped from quark to inDesign when quark took too long to support os x. I've been in the industry for 28 years, you need to open your mind, it's not the software it's the person that is the creative, these are just tools.



    Also, if you are interested in hiring me, I'd be happy to learn Affinity or Pixelmatr or whatever you need ;)

  • Reply 24 of 56
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post





    No, Siri will.

    As long as it isn't Eddy Cue, then it's all good.  Please, Apple, no Cue.

  • Reply 25 of 56
    zabazaba Posts: 226member
    polymnia wrote: »

    Also, if you are interested in hiring me, I'd be happy to learn Affinity or Pixelmatr or whatever you need ;)
    You completely missed the point. You don't have to use the same software as everyone else!! Pixelmatr talks to photoshop, affinity talks to illustrator both can feed in to inDesign. It is entirely possible that some of the new software coming online is actually better in many ways, you don't have to make massive changes to your workflow at all and you can pass files around without issue to those that don't have or use the source software. If you prefer Adobe, then stick with it. I prefer to look at what's new and interesting that can actually boost my productivity and not impact my bottom line. If I were to hire you you wouldn't need to learn anything new.
  • Reply 26 of 56
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppeX View Post

     

    USB 3.1 type-C (reversible) port on iOS devices?




    USB-c on all devices worldwide.

  • Reply 27 of 56
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by zaba View Post





    You completely missed the point. You don't have to use the same software as everyone else!! Pixelmatr talks to photoshop, affinity talks to illustrator both can feed in to inDesign. It is entirely possible that some of the new software coming online is actually better in many ways, you don't have to make massive changes to your workflow at all and you can pass files around without issue to those that don't have or use the source software. If you prefer Adobe, then stick with it. I prefer to look at what's new and interesting that can actually boost my productivity and not impact my bottom line. If I were to hire you you wouldn't need to learn anything new.



    Well you say that…

     

    The IT departments of my customers validate new versions of Adobe software for months before rolling out the newest versions to their people. My current assignment has the entire agency on CC 2014. No CC 2015 allowed until they have validated that platform not just their own processes, with their vendor partners and clients. And this is just concerning compatibility between different version of Adobe applications!

     

    In fact these situation highlight one thing I kind of love about CC: I can download any major version back to CS6 depending on client need (specifically these are: CS6, CC, CC (2014) & CC (2015))

     

    I'm sure 99% of the time files are perfectly interchangable across software platforms as advertised by the Affinity and Pixelmatr's of the world, but I'm not going to stick my neck out and use something else and have some production problem traced back to me.

     

    If you are perfectly happy taking these chances, that is fine by me. I choose to follow the lead of the people who pay me.

  • Reply 28 of 56
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post





    How about this: Tim demos iPad Pro. Tim calls Wacom CEO onstage to demo Force Touch Pen on iPad Pro who then brings in CEO of Adobe to demo iPad Pro & Force Touch Pen driving a full-featured iOS version of Photoshop.



    A guy can dream, right?



    Mmmmmm... more like nightmare.

    Wacom makes nice hardware but their drivers have slowly degraded into a bloated, inefficient and often unstable mess. Perhaps if Apple could wipe their software division completely and start over (and leave the hardware people to do what they do well)

     

    Adobe? PS & Illustrator are dead they are just walking zombies propped up by convention (and marketshare to be fair), they have been "microsofted" to death (and I say this sadly after 2 decades of using them) They are, along with flash, dead, dead, dead. Now what else does adobe have that Apple wants? Premiere and AE?? Puh-lease... 20 year old video editing spaghetti code with band-sids and patches piled on so high you can't even see the core application anymore.

     

    So I say Nope to wacom (use them as a hardware OEM, possibly) and leave adobe alone to rot

  • Reply 29 of 56
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post

     



    Well you say that…

     

    The IT departments of my customers validate new versions of Adobe software for months before rolling out the newest versions to their people. My current assignment has the entire agency on CC 2014. No CC 2015 allowed until they have validated that platform not just their own processes, with their vendor partners and clients. And this is just concerning compatibility between different version of Adobe applications!

     

    In fact these situation highlight one thing I kind of love about CC: I can download any major version back to CS6 depending on client need (specifically these are: CS6, CC, CC (2014) & CC (2015))

     

    I'm sure 99% of the time files are perfectly interchangable across software platforms as advertised by the Affinity and Pixelmatr's of the world, but I'm not going to stick my neck out and use something else and have some production problem traced back to me.

     

    If you are perfectly happy taking these chances, that is fine by me. I choose to follow the lead of the people who pay me.




    I will repeat something I tell my team all the time (because we have a constant influx of new PA's) : It's extremely difficult to do a good job if you are using both of your hands to cover your ass.

  • Reply 30 of 56
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,077member
    indyfx wrote: »

    I will repeat something I tell my team all the time (because we have a constant influx of new PA's) : It's extremely difficult to do a good job if you are using both of your hands to cover your ass.

    Like I told the other guy, if you want to hire me, I'll use whatever software you require. ????
  • Reply 31 of 56
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,077member
    indyfx wrote: »

    Mmmmmm... more like nightmare.
    Wacom makes nice hardware but their drivers have slowly degraded into a bloated, inefficient and often unstable mess. <span style="line-height:1.4em;">Perhaps if Apple could wipe their software division completely and start over (and leave the hardware people to do what they do well)</span>


    Adobe? PS & Illustrator are dead they are just walking zombies propped up by convention (and marketshare to be fair), they have been "microsofted" to death (and I say this sadly after 2 decades of using them) They are, along with flash, dead, dead, dead. Now what else does adobe have that Apple wants? Premiere and AE?? Puh-lease... 20 year old video editing spaghetti code with band-sids and patches piled on so high you can't even see the core application anymore.

    So I say Nope to wacom (use them as a hardware OEM, possibly) and leave adobe alone to rot

    Just pointing out I'm not the guy who suggested apple buy Wacom & Adobe. That was someone else mashing up my post.

    My dream is closer to what you you suggest: Wacom being the hardware OEM for a Force Touch Pen and Adobe showing an iOS native full-featured Photoshop. I guess any photo editor making an impressive debut on iOS would make a good demo. Photoshop is the biggest one I can think of. Maybe not the one you'd choose, but the pure feat of software engineering required to make PS on iOS happen would be impressive whether you love or hate Photoshop.
  • Reply 32 of 56
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post





    Like I told the other guy, if you want to hire me, I'll use whatever software you require. ????



    In my business (I own a post facility) we are required to excel and to constantly surpass what we have done before. So I ask for excellence from my employees. Perhaps just getting by is ok for whatever industry your company is in. If so, I truly feel sad for you.

  • Reply 33 of 56
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post

     



    In my business (I own a post facility) we are required to excel and to constantly surpass what we have done before. So I ask for excellence from my employees. Perhaps just getting by is ok for whatever industry your company is in. If so, I truly feel sad for you.




    I think you'd find excellence being a way my clients describe what I do for them.

     

    What have I said to make you feel 'just getting by' is my M.O.?

     

    I don't see how excellence is pegged to how much I hate Adobe.

     

    I feel excellence is linked how much my customers love my deliverables and enjoy working with me. Part of that is being adaptable and a team player. I'm not going to spring surprises on my customers. When they want an Illustrator file for handoff to the color separator, I give them an Illustrator file.

     

    If working for your post facility meant you'd rather receive some other deliverable, I'd be happy to oblige

  • Reply 34 of 56
    indyfxindyfx Posts: 321member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post





    Just pointing out I'm not the guy who suggested apple buy Wacom & Adobe. That was someone else mashing up my post.



    My dream is closer to what you you suggest: Wacom being the hardware OEM for a Force Touch Pen and Adobe showing an iOS native full-featured Photoshop. I guess any photo editor making an impressive debut on iOS would make a good demo. Photoshop is the biggest one I can think of. Maybe not the one you'd choose, but the pure feat of software engineering required to make PS on iOS happen would be impressive whether you love or hate Photoshop.



    I love PS, perhaps loved is more accurate. However, I think Adobe is too far gone to ever pull their collective heads out of their asses and will likely never again be able to make anything worth having.

    So... No, I'm not waiting with bated breath for them to prove me wrong. You can hold you breath if you want, but I think all you will get, is blue.

  • Reply 35 of 56
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post

     



    I love PS, perhaps loved is more accurate. However, I think Adobe is too far gone to ever pull their collective heads out of their asses and will likely never again be able to make anything worth having.

    So... No, I'm not waiting with bated breath for them to prove me wrong. You can hold you breath if you want, but I think all you will get, is blue.




    I'm not waiting for Adobe to prove anything to you. I'm perfectly happy with them. Your relationship with Adobe isn't super interesting to me.

     

    I would love to get back to my dream about an iPad Pro with a Force Touch Pen and a Pro Image Editor all demoed as part of a Pro workflow system built on iOS. Whatever the brand names on the components, I find that a very interesting topic to discuss.

     

    We were asked for our wild Apple rumor ideas, were we not?

     

    Anyone else have any interesting ideas on the iPad Pro and how they will deliver on the promise the 'Pro' (assumed) name implies?

  • Reply 36 of 56
    The picture of the Civic Center with the flags looks more like an Embassy than an Event Venue.

    ?NATION™. Citizenship applications open on September 23. (really far-fetched but I can dream haha)
  • Reply 37 of 56
    indyfxindyfx Posts: 321member

    Quote:




    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post

     



    I think you'd find excellence being a way my clients describe what I do for them.


     

    Ok, and remember you asked me....

     

    I'm sorry I just don't think that excellence is possible or at least not sustainable  with a "cover your ass" attitude. (and 20 years of success in a cutthroat industry validates that)

     


    What have I said to make you feel 'just getting by' is my M.O.?


    Because you don't even want to consider newer and possibly better tools saying:

    "but I'm not going to stick my neck out and use something else and have some production problem traced back to me"

    This, in a nutshell  my friend, is a "just get by and don't make waves"  CYA attitude

    God forbid you take initiative and use something better because 1% of the time there might be a hiccup that could be traced back to you.

     

    ?The reset of your response seems to be to be a justification for your attitude. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

    No, I wouldn't "surprise" a client with something he didn't ask for in delivery. But yes, I expect my people to experiment with new techniques and software enabling us to offer something new and better (or faster, cheaper) as an option to a client. 

     

    Sorry, I call them as I see them. What anyone who has known me for long would tell you about me is: I don't suffer fools gladly, I demand (and reward) creativity and managerial courage, and that I loathe CYA thinking (because it almost completely removes ones ability to excel)

     

    Remember, you asked...

  • Reply 38 of 56
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post

     

     

    Ok, and remember you asked me....

     

    I'm sorry I just don't think that excellence is possible or at least not sustainable  with a "cover your ass" attitude. (and 20 years of success in a cutthroat industry validates that)

     

    Because you don't even want to consider newer and possibly better tools saying:

    "but I'm not going to stick my neck out and use something else and have some production problem traced back to me"

    This, in a nutshell  my friend, is a "just get by and don't make waves"  CYA attitude

    God forbid you take initiative and use something better because 1% of the time there might be a hiccup that could be traced back to you.

     

    ?The reset of your response seems to be to be a justification for your attitude. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

    No, I wouldn't "surprise" a client with something he didn't ask for in delivery. But yes, I expect my people to experiment with new techniques and software enabling us to offer something new and better (or faster, cheaper) as an option to a client. 

     

    Sorry, I call them as I see them. What anyone who has known me for long would tell you about me is: I don't suffer fools gladly, I demand (and reward) creativity and managerial courage, and that I loathe CYA thinking (because it almost completely removes ones ability to excel)

     

    Remember, you asked...




    And you ask nothing, merely pontificating. I'm sure that goes over great at parties and client meetings.

     

    You conveniently ignore my stated philosophy of being a team player, and my easy-to-do-business-with ethic instead making a beeline to draw a line between my instinct to avoid causing problems for my customers being a creative failure on my part.

     

    Sorry, I don't buy that.

     

    I value creatively in equal measure with delivering what my clients need and getting along with the team.

     

    Case in point, I bring my own MacBook Pro to my freelance assignments. On my MacBook Pro, I have a superset of the software my client's deploy to their staff on their own machines. Who do they come to when a CC (2015) file is encountered? Me. Do I berate them for not using the right software? No. I just solve their problem.

     

    How about something a little more substantial? Say we need to blow up an image 8 feet tall for display usage? PS doesn't do the greatest job of resampling, so I keep a copy of Perfect Resize on my Mac. I roundtrip the file back into a PSD when I'm done because that's what they expect.

     

    The thing you are not understanding and trying to dance around is that our only point substantial of difference in this discussion is that I don't hate Adobe. I like other software. I own other software. I'll use all of it to my advantage. But I like Adobe software a lot and I'm quite effective with it. So I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing until it is obvious to me that I need to do something else. That case has not been made to me yet.

  • Reply 39 of 56
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post

     

     

    Ok, and remember you asked me....

     

    I'm sorry I just don't think that excellence is possible or at least not sustainable  with a "cover your ass" attitude. (and 20 years of success in a cutthroat industry validates that)

     

    Because you don't even want to consider newer and possibly better tools saying:

    "but I'm not going to stick my neck out and use something else and have some production problem traced back to me"

    This, in a nutshell  my friend, is a "just get by and don't make waves"  CYA attitude

    God forbid you take initiative and use something better because 1% of the time there might be a hiccup that could be traced back to you.

     

    ?The reset of your response seems to be to be a justification for your attitude. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

    No, I wouldn't "surprise" a client with something he didn't ask for in delivery. But yes, I expect my people to experiment with new techniques and software enabling us to offer something new and better (or faster, cheaper) as an option to a client. 

     

    Sorry, I call them as I see them. What anyone who has known me for long would tell you about me is: I don't suffer fools gladly, I demand (and reward) creativity and managerial courage, and that I loathe CYA thinking (because it almost completely removes ones ability to excel)

     

    Remember, you asked...




    Also, the CYA attitude you show such contempt for would hardly seem so worthy of your contempt if by throwing caution to the wind you delivered something that was unusable by your client's vendor.

     

    I just took a look at Affinity Designer's specifications. They list Adobe Illustrator compatibility with a disclaimer 'via PDF Stream'. Not sure if you've ever opened a PDF in Illustrator before. Sometimes for a very simple design everything works great. Often time, especially when using complex transformations, raster images, live effects, etc., you get an un-editable mess.

     

    ?When my deliverable goes out to a distributed team of Production Artists at another company using an Illustrator-based packaging workflow where they will create derivative works that require radical manipulation of my original provided artwork, you're damn right I'm going to CMA (cover my ass) and deliver a native Illustrator file. I'm also going to work in Illustrator natively unless there is a damn good reason not to.

     

    Perhaps as the owner of a post facility you get to call the shots on what an acceptable deliverable is. In my business, I defer to the workflow I am part of.

  • Reply 40 of 56
    indyfxindyfx Posts: 321member

    dude you asked me...

     

    "Can't help about the shape I'm in. Can't sing, I ain't pretty and my legs are thin.

    Don't ask me what I think of you. Might not give the answer that you want me to..."

    —Peter Allen Green

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