What if Apple has access to large, fast, efficient, durable, inexpensive storage? Where, you might ask, would Apple get this miracle storage? Why, they'd get it from Apple, that's where!
But it would ultimately be decided on how fast of an Internet connection the end user has.
I don't understand your response! With the Anobit tech, Apple could include a large amount of storage in the AppleTV -- a game would only need to be downloaded once and stored in the AppleTV.
Or many games could be downloaded to a Mac or PC, stored in a library there, and crossloaded to the AppleTV when played.
Another possibility would be to have an USB 3.1 on the AppleTV that could directly attach external storage.
I was answering a post that mentioned puzzle games, where lag is not much of an issue.
A big improvement compared to what? If you compare it to current iOS devices, I don't think so, since games are designed to be played in mobile devices. If you compare it to current consoles, the big three are far ahead. Maybe you are comparing it to the current ATV, that have no gaming capability. And, yes, I know how big gaming market is. What I haven't seen is what the ATV brings to the table that will make gamers move from their iOS devices or TV consoles.
How do you know gaming in the ATV will be big? You may like you iOS games, but remember that you are playing them in the platform it was designed for. Do you really think that the experience will be the same in an ATV? Playing games in large TV is much more than that.
It's a fine line between possessing a healthy skepticism and desiring an outright failure.
Airplay with games produces quite a big lag, with some games that makes it unplayable. There's also the issue of controls (if you're not using an external controller) in that you're controlling the game on the iOS device which is the screen and relaying that information to the tv (with lag) - very non-ideal gaming experience (using touch interface but not touching the screen you're viewing).
I was answering a post that mentioned puzzle games, where lag is not much of an issue.
Being able to play a game running natively on the ATV will be a big improvement. If you can't understand this, can you understand that perhaps you're not the target market, and just because you aren't the target market doesn't mean that a target market is non-existent?
A big improvement compared to what? If you compare it to current iOS devices, I don't think so, since games are designed to be played in mobile devices. If you compare it to current consoles, the big three are far ahead. Maybe you are comparing it to the current ATV, that have no gaming capability. And, yes, I know how big gaming market is. What I haven't seen is what the ATV brings to the table that will make gamers move from their iOS devices or TV consoles.
I think gaming on the ATV will be big. Whether it's complementary or it replaces existing gaming out there, I don't know and don't care, I still think it will be big - sheer numbers of people that will buy the ATV for video and other apps only make this a market not to be ignored. I like iOS games and I already use my ATV exclusively for watching television, adding games to it, games I already enjoy playing, so I can enjoy those games on the television's large screen, big appeal to me, and I believe lots of others as we're (hopefully) about to see.
How do you know gaming in the ATV will be big? You may like you iOS games, but remember that you are playing them in the platform it was designed for. Do you really think that the experience will be the same in an ATV? Playing games in large TV is much more than that.
Here's a differing opinion from Trip Hawkins ... You may have heard of him:
“No company has done more for the digital man-machine interface than Apple,” Mr. Hawkins said. “They’ve warmed up to games and are a worthy candidate to win the family room in the next decade, though the competition and inertia are epic.”
I don't know if ATV will succeed or fail as a gaming device, neither Mr. Hawkins. What I'm saying is that I don't see casual gamers spending hours in front of a TV playing games. Casual gamers like playing games in their mobile devices, which are accessible and don't require to be in front of a TV. IMO, that's the reason iOS succeed. Nintendo already tried it with the Wii, and while the console was successful, the people lost interest of it. Now looks where the Wii U is now, even though it has a great library of games.
I think Apple already beat Nintendo with casual gamers, and that went without the ATV. I don't see iOS casual gamers moving to the ATV, neither console gamers, which is a completely different market, where Sony and MS dominate. Sure, some people will play in the ATV, but for how long?
Nintendo made a crap load of money on the Wii for over 5 years. They failed with the WiiU because of the horrible controller and lack of good games.
AppleTV gaming will be a success because games wont cost $50 but a more reasonable $5-$10. That is the sweet spot for casual gamers.
I don't think they failed because of games, Mario, Splatoon and Zelda were great games, and the new controller is very innovative. IMO, it was targeted at casual gamers, and they already very happy playing with mobile devices.
And games prices don't guarantee success. Nintendo has a long list of Virtual Console games for the Wii U, with prices between $7.00 and $20.00 which many of them are very good.
I don't know if ATV will succeed or fail as a gaming device, neither Mr. Hawkins. What I'm saying is that I don't see casual gamers spending hours in front of a TV playing games. Casual gamers like playing games in their mobile devices, which are accessible and don't require to be in front of a TV. IMO, that's the reason iOS succeed. Nintendo already tried it with the Wii, and while the console was successful, the people lost interest of it. Now looks where the Wii U is now, even though it has a great library of games.
I think Apple already beat Nintendo with casual gamers, and that went without the ATV. I don't see iOS casual gamers moving to the ATV, neither console gamers, which is a completely different market, where Sony and MS dominate. Sure, some people will play in the ATV, but for how long?
You "don't see", you keep saying that over and over again despite what the experts say (links have been provided), despite what the non-experts think (such as those of us here that are eager for gaming on this device). You talk as if you know the entire gaming market having simplified it into casual and console gamers, where you must be one or the other with no overlap and no other possible group is allowed. You then claim that console gamers will never choose the ATV games (because they will explode in a ball of fire if they play an iOS game on their TV while their console sits idle next to the ATV<grin>), and for casual gamers you've decided there is no way they will sit in front of a television and play games (because you can't see it yourself), despite the fact several on here have said that's exactly what they will do.
There are iOS gaming sites that are filled with people who will eagerly embrace gaming on this ATV, but in your last sentence you appear to judge success and failure on the amount of hours that a gamer will game on an ATV. I don't know what that means and why that would be a valid criteria for success or failure, but you seem hell bent on focusing on failure and promoting that position, despite claiming in your first sentence you don't know whether it'll be a success or failure. Your position is clear, and from the tone of your posts I'm quite certain that no matter how gaming manifests on this ATV, you will move the goal posts to satisfy your position and claim it was a failure and you were right all along.
The good news is that we don't have long to wait to see whether gaming will exist on this ATV, and hopefully Wednesday (if it does) we'll get a good demo of what to expect. I will buy the new ATV (to replace my existing ATV), not exclusively because of its gaming capabilities. Gaming is merely a very nice-to-have addition to a device I already value, opening an App Store just makes it much more appealing, games being one aspect of an App Store. I will game on it and I won't be the only one, sometimes for hours in one sitting sometimes for minutes, just as I did on the PS3 I just sold.
Another miserable attempt by Apple to pretend it cares about games and gaming. Expectations are going to be for a seriously underpowered, overpriced toy with barely sufficient sophistication to engage a four year old until s/he is five. If Apple's set-top streamer does not have features and graphics to better the Sony Playstation 4, Wii or Xbox One, there will be absolutely no point to its existence.
The final era of short-lived, myopic tech development from Apple coders, electro-mechanical designers and engineers is upon us.
Apple truly is tumbling in on itself. I'm coming to the conclusion this implosion was Steve Jobs' last ironic wish. He engaged Tim Cook with full knowledge Apple fans and onlookers will witness the biggest, most slowest-motion crash of their lives.
Another miserable attempt by Apple to pretend it cares about games and gaming. Expectations are going to be for a seriously underpowered, overpriced toy with barely sufficient sophistication to engage a four year old until s/he is five.
Sounds to me like expectations are that it will take on the high end gaming, only to fall short. Your expectations fit right in line with what casual gaming is these days. Looks like they have a hit on their hands.
If Apple's set-top streamer does not have features and graphics to better the Sony Playstation 4, Wii or Xbox One, there will be absolutely no point to its existence.
Because, as we all know, when you think ‘set top streamer’ you think ‘video game console’!
Just like when you think ‘F-150’ you think ‘Bagger 288’! Or when you think ‘duck a l’orange’ you think ‘breakfast’!
I don't know if ATV will succeed or fail as a gaming device, neither Mr. Hawkins. What I'm saying is that I don't see casual gamers spending hours in front of a TV playing games. Casual gamers like playing games in their mobile devices, which are accessible and don't require to be in front of a TV. IMO, that's the reason iOS succeed. Nintendo already tried it with the Wii, and while the console was successful, the people lost interest of it. Now looks where the Wii U is now, even though it has a great library of games.
I think Apple already beat Nintendo with casual gamers, and that went without the ATV. I don't see iOS casual gamers moving to the ATV, neither console gamers, which is a completely different market, where Sony and MS dominate. Sure, some people will play in the ATV, but for how long?
I met Trip once -- when he worked for Apple in the 1980s. Trip impressed me as a polished politician. I suspect that his companies already have games in development for the new AppleTV ... It wouldn't surprise me if they were demoed at the Sept 9 event.
I'm not a gamer -- casual, social or advanced console (whatever these definitions really mean). But I do think there is room for a genre that involves multiple players gathered around a big screen. These players are not obsessed with gaming -- rather they are interested in ad hoc sessions of challenging games as part of social contact with friends and family.
Did you ever get together with friends to play penny-ante Poker; Canasta: Pinocle; Spades; Gin; Dominos; Monopoly etc.?
The game wasn't the objective -- it was a means of entertainment and social interaction.
This could be what Apple is targeting!
As to console gaming:
I did some research, and came up with the following:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that advanced console gaming (units sold) topped out in 2000-2001, and has been declining since:
Nintendo would be smart to permit its older games like Super Mario 64, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, etc. to be available on the new Apple TV. It would be a win-win for both companies (especially Nintendo).
Nintendo would be smart to permit its older games like Super Mario 64, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, etc. to be available on the new Apple TV. It would be a win-win for both companies (especially Nintendo).
Ha!
I always thought someone should exploit the name and come up with a game called "Honkey Dong" :smokey:
There could be a whole new genre of [I] gaming [/I] related to live events. Easy are Sports Events such as Soccer, Football, Basketball (even baseball, to a degree).
Consider Sports Events: there are lineups, formations, play actions and results. Some sportscasters use a telestrator to highlight these after the fact.
What if each user had her * own color telestrator and could layout a play before it occurred -- and accumulate points based on their accuracy.
You, and your friends, could actually participate in a live event for ongoing fun, bragging rights and profit!
Seriously, how many times have you called out loud to the TV for your team to run a draw, a slant pass or a blitz?
Now, you could telestrate exactly how with a tap, tap, tap.
* When I first married my late wife Lucy -- I was amazed that she understood sports -- especially football. Come Thanksgiving, while the women were in the kitchen, Lucy was gathered around the TV with the guys -- watching football. Amazing, she understands football ... But, but, she understands football better than me. Our daughter Patti has maintained this tradition.
You "don't see", you keep saying that over and over again despite what the experts say (links have been provided), despite what the non-experts think (such as those of us here that are eager for gaming on this device).
Those experts are expressing opinions, and they could be right or wrong, same as my opinion. But for some reason you use their opinions as facts on why the ATV will succeed in gaming, even though the device isn't on the market yet. You know, experts have gone wrong many times.
Quote:
You talk as if you know the entire gaming market having simplified it into casual and console gamers, where you must be one or the other with no overlap and no other possible group is allowed. You then claim that console gamers will never choose the ATV games (because they will explode in a ball of fire if they play an iOS game on their TV while their console sits idle next to the ATV<grin>), and for casual gamers you've decided there is no way they will sit in front of a television and play games (because you can't see it yourself), despite the fact several on here have said that's exactly what they will do.
I check all my posts, I didn't see the term "never" in any of them, so maybe you assume I think people will never play in an Apple TV. Your assumption is wrong. I'm sure people will play on it, including you, since you seem looking forward to it (and no, their TV won't explode for playing iOS games in it, at least from what I know). What I'm not sure is if most people will keep the interest of playing in the ATV, same as happened to Wii / Wii U, and return to their mobile and consoles.
Second, I used the terms "casual" and "console gamers" to generalize (I hope to be using the right term, since English is not my main language). There are casual gamers that own consoles, and most console gamers have mobile devices. You can see what type of gamer are based in which device they play more. Which group is Apple targeting with the ATV? Would the ATV be better than the XOne/PS4 for console gamers or better than a mobile device for casual gamers? Maybe, like you said, there is another group. But my posts refer only to those two groups. You are welcome to add whatever group you want in your comments.
Third, when I mentioned that I don't see casual gamers sitting in front of a TV playing, was in general and not absolute terms.
Quote:
There are iOS gaming sites that are filled with people who will eagerly embrace gaming on this ATV, but in your last sentence you appear to judge success and failure on the amount of hours that a gamer will game on an ATV. I don't know what that means and why that would be a valid criteria for success or failure, but you seem hell bent on focusing on failure and promoting that position, despite claiming in your first sentence you don't know whether it'll be a success or failure. Your position is clear, and from the tone of your posts I'm quite certain that no matter how gaming manifests on this ATV, you will move the goal posts to satisfy your position and claim it was a failure and you were right all along.
I just mention gaming time as an example, and not as the only metric to measure if gamers like the device. For example, based in stats, CoD and Halo are two popular franchises people love to play. And how do they know? One way is measuring how much time people spend playing online. If people don't spend time playing in the ATV, could it be that people didn't like it? The opposite can be said if people spend time playing in it, meaning that Apple did something right.
Anyhow, you already make your mind that you'll love the ATV (even though you don't know how good or bad it will be), and, using your own words, "move the goal posts to satisfy your position and claim it was successful and you were right all along."
Quote:
The good news is that we don't have long to wait to see whether gaming will exist on this ATV, and hopefully Wednesday (if it does) we'll get a good demo of what to expect. I will buy the new ATV (to replace my existing ATV), not exclusively because of its gaming capabilities. Gaming is merely a very nice-to-have addition to a device I already value, opening an App Store just makes it much more appealing, games being one aspect of an App Store. I will game on it and I won't be the only one, sometimes for hours in one sitting sometimes for minutes, just as I did on the PS3 I just sold.
There could be a whole new genre of gaming related to live events. Easy are Sports Events such as Soccer, Football, Basketball (even baseball, to a degree).
Consider Sports Events: there are lineups, formations, play actions and results. Some sportscasters use a telestrator to highlight these after the fact.
What if each user had her * own color telestrator and could layout a play before it occurred -- and accumulate points based on their accuracy.
You, and your friends, could actually participate in a live event for ongoing fun, bragging rights and profit!
Seriously, how many times have you called out loud to the TV for your team to run a draw, a slant pass or a blitz?
Now, you could telestrate exactly how with a tap, tap, tap.
* When I first married my late wife Lucy -- I was amazed that she understood sports -- especially football. Come Thanksgiving, while the women were in the kitchen, Lucy was gathered around the TV with the guys -- watching football. Amazing, she understands football ... But, but, she understands football better than me. Our daughter Patti has maintained this tradition.
That is a neat idea that would be great in the living room with friends or in a sports bar.
In today's more up-tempo football game the time to do what you are saying seems tough with some teams. So you would *cough* have to be on the ball *cough*. I like the idea of keeping it somewhat simplified to calling run, pass, option and maybe a screen play (slant) or play action for offense. For defense the options could be something like blitz (like you said), zone, or man-to-man. Or maybe go with a Madden style mechanism of play calling, either way you would need to be very quick.
I'm having a hard time imagining a mechanic that would work with sports that are more fluid like soccer, basketball, or hockey.
With baseball I can imagine focusing on the pitcher and scoring based on whoever called the correct pitch. For the offence mechanic, predict where you think the ball will be hit. You would need to know the players fairly well to predict where each player is most likely to hit the ball. Or just play the percentages.
Give it a Li-ion battery and a USB C port to charge/play. Just make it in the Nintendo+Xbox layout or it’s a no go for me.
?Then again, a
physical controller seems so un-Apple.
I couldn't imagine them making a standard controller with all those input buttons. Basic gaming can be done with a touch surface and shoulder buttons like so:
It might not be the most comfortable controller for prolonged gaming but for casual gaming it should be ok. This would have a mic input on it. The shoulder buttons would be flush with the back so that if you weren't a gamer, it looks just like a touch remote.
The left side would be movement, right side would be look and there would be two shoulder buttons that are analog and on a central rocker so that they have 3 states each with one finger (left side down, right side down, both down).
The touch areas can be segmented into parts for different games e.g reserve the middle part for movement and look and then tap the edges for buttons. Platformers would need fewer controls than FPS games.
The controller would also have a gyro and accelerometer and pressure sensitive surface and could be clipped to accessories for fitness training. It can have a clasp like the iPod for a wrist strap to let you play tennis games. There would be pinpoint lights on top to indicate charge and player number in multiplayer games.
This can also work with the Mac for gaming if people don't have a standard controller.
It would make sense to support MFi controllers too, this is just a way to bundle a single compact remote and gaming controller so that people have gaming out of the box without manufacturing a line of touch remotes and a separate line of game controllers.
That is an interesting take, but I don't think I would go for it personally.
Maybe with force touch or some other new technology they could make it usable for more than just casual games.
Buttons, triggers and analog sticks work so extremely well for so many types of games.
Then again you might be right and casual gaming will be the main thrust for Apple.
There could be a whole new genre of gaming related to live events. Easy are Sports Events such as Soccer, Football, Basketball (even baseball, to a degree).
Consider Sports Events: there are lineups, formations, play actions and results. Some sportscasters use a telestrator to highlight these after the fact.
What if each user had her * own color telestrator and could layout a play before it occurred -- and accumulate points based on their accuracy.
You, and your friends, could actually participate in a live event for ongoing fun, bragging rights and profit!
Seriously, how many times have you called out loud to the TV for your team to run a draw, a slant pass or a blitz?
Now, you could telestrate exactly how with a tap, tap, tap.
* When I first married my late wife Lucy -- I was amazed that she understood sports -- especially football. Come Thanksgiving, while the women were in the kitchen, Lucy was gathered around the TV with the guys -- watching football. Amazing, she understands football ... But, but, she understands football better than me. Our daughter Patti has maintained this tradition.
That is a neat idea that would be great in the living room with friends or in a sports bar.
In today's more up-tempo football game the time to do what you are saying seems tough with some teams. So you would *cough* have to be on the ball *cough*. I like the idea of keeping it somewhat simplified to calling run, pass, option and maybe a screen play (slant) or play action for offense. For defense the options could be something like blitz (like you said), zone, or man-to-man. Or maybe go with a Madden style mechanism of play calling, either way you would need to be very quick.
What if there were a mandatory pause between the lineup and the play -- say a 2-3 second set. It would change Payton Manning's approach -- but he would adapt and exploit!
I'm having a hard time imagining a mechanic that would work with sports that are more fluid like soccer, basketball, or hockey.
Actually, fluid games are even more attractive/challenging -- if you see the entire rink/arena you can see play opportunities take form before your eyes -- calling "Pass to the Left Wing", "Offside Trap",
"Stay on sides". "Cross" or "Center it" ...
With baseball I can imagine focusing on the pitcher and scoring based on whoever called the correct pitch. For the offence mechanic, predict where you think the ball will be hit. You would need to know the players fairly well to predict where each player is most likely to hit the ball. Or just play the percentages.
Comments
Why did you send me to a Flash games site that can't even run on an iPad let alone dual screen to an AppleTV?
Because I didn't realise it was Flash because I use a Macbook pro - sorry.
I don't understand your response! With the Anobit tech, Apple could include a large amount of storage in the AppleTV -- a game would only need to be downloaded once and stored in the AppleTV.
Or many games could be downloaded to a Mac or PC, stored in a library there, and crossloaded to the AppleTV when played.
Another possibility would be to have an USB 3.1 on the AppleTV that could directly attach external storage.
I was answering a post that mentioned puzzle games, where lag is not much of an issue.
A big improvement compared to what? If you compare it to current iOS devices, I don't think so, since games are designed to be played in mobile devices. If you compare it to current consoles, the big three are far ahead. Maybe you are comparing it to the current ATV, that have no gaming capability. And, yes, I know how big gaming market is. What I haven't seen is what the ATV brings to the table that will make gamers move from their iOS devices or TV consoles.
How do you know gaming in the ATV will be big? You may like you iOS games, but remember that you are playing them in the platform it was designed for. Do you really think that the experience will be the same in an ATV? Playing games in large TV is much more than that.
It's a fine line between possessing a healthy skepticism and desiring an outright failure.
Here's a differing opinion from Trip Hawkins ... You may have heard of him:
http://www.iphoneinformer.com/28272-new-reports-note-gaming-will-help-apple-tv/
It's a fine line between possessing a healthy skepticism and desiring an outright failure.
Where in my post I reflect a desire for failure? I just posted my POV about gaming in the ATV, that's all.
Here's a differing opinion from Trip Hawkins ... You may have heard of him:
http://www.iphoneinformer.com/28272-new-reports-note-gaming-will-help-apple-tv/
I don't know if ATV will succeed or fail as a gaming device, neither Mr. Hawkins. What I'm saying is that I don't see casual gamers spending hours in front of a TV playing games. Casual gamers like playing games in their mobile devices, which are accessible and don't require to be in front of a TV. IMO, that's the reason iOS succeed. Nintendo already tried it with the Wii, and while the console was successful, the people lost interest of it. Now looks where the Wii U is now, even though it has a great library of games.
I think Apple already beat Nintendo with casual gamers, and that went without the ATV. I don't see iOS casual gamers moving to the ATV, neither console gamers, which is a completely different market, where Sony and MS dominate. Sure, some people will play in the ATV, but for how long?
Nintendo made a crap load of money on the Wii for over 5 years. They failed with the WiiU because of the horrible controller and lack of good games.
AppleTV gaming will be a success because games wont cost $50 but a more reasonable $5-$10. That is the sweet spot for casual gamers.
I don't think they failed because of games, Mario, Splatoon and Zelda were great games, and the new controller is very innovative. IMO, it was targeted at casual gamers, and they already very happy playing with mobile devices.
And games prices don't guarantee success. Nintendo has a long list of Virtual Console games for the Wii U, with prices between $7.00 and $20.00 which many of them are very good.
More the design and marketing. So many people thought it was an expensive “add-on” to what they already had.
I don't know if ATV will succeed or fail as a gaming device, neither Mr. Hawkins. What I'm saying is that I don't see casual gamers spending hours in front of a TV playing games. Casual gamers like playing games in their mobile devices, which are accessible and don't require to be in front of a TV. IMO, that's the reason iOS succeed. Nintendo already tried it with the Wii, and while the console was successful, the people lost interest of it. Now looks where the Wii U is now, even though it has a great library of games.
I think Apple already beat Nintendo with casual gamers, and that went without the ATV. I don't see iOS casual gamers moving to the ATV, neither console gamers, which is a completely different market, where Sony and MS dominate. Sure, some people will play in the ATV, but for how long?
You "don't see", you keep saying that over and over again despite what the experts say (links have been provided), despite what the non-experts think (such as those of us here that are eager for gaming on this device). You talk as if you know the entire gaming market having simplified it into casual and console gamers, where you must be one or the other with no overlap and no other possible group is allowed. You then claim that console gamers will never choose the ATV games (because they will explode in a ball of fire if they play an iOS game on their TV while their console sits idle next to the ATV<grin>), and for casual gamers you've decided there is no way they will sit in front of a television and play games (because you can't see it yourself), despite the fact several on here have said that's exactly what they will do.
There are iOS gaming sites that are filled with people who will eagerly embrace gaming on this ATV, but in your last sentence you appear to judge success and failure on the amount of hours that a gamer will game on an ATV. I don't know what that means and why that would be a valid criteria for success or failure, but you seem hell bent on focusing on failure and promoting that position, despite claiming in your first sentence you don't know whether it'll be a success or failure. Your position is clear, and from the tone of your posts I'm quite certain that no matter how gaming manifests on this ATV, you will move the goal posts to satisfy your position and claim it was a failure and you were right all along.
The good news is that we don't have long to wait to see whether gaming will exist on this ATV, and hopefully Wednesday (if it does) we'll get a good demo of what to expect. I will buy the new ATV (to replace my existing ATV), not exclusively because of its gaming capabilities. Gaming is merely a very nice-to-have addition to a device I already value, opening an App Store just makes it much more appealing, games being one aspect of an App Store. I will game on it and I won't be the only one, sometimes for hours in one sitting sometimes for minutes, just as I did on the PS3 I just sold.
Another miserable attempt by Apple to pretend it cares about games and gaming. Expectations are going to be for a seriously underpowered, overpriced toy with barely sufficient sophistication to engage a four year old until s/he is five. If Apple's set-top streamer does not have features and graphics to better the Sony Playstation 4, Wii or Xbox One, there will be absolutely no point to its existence.
The final era of short-lived, myopic tech development from Apple coders, electro-mechanical designers and engineers is upon us.
Apple truly is tumbling in on itself. I'm coming to the conclusion this implosion was Steve Jobs' last ironic wish. He engaged Tim Cook with full knowledge Apple fans and onlookers will witness the biggest, most slowest-motion crash of their lives.
Sounds to me like expectations are that it will take on the high end gaming, only to fall short. Your expectations fit right in line with what casual gaming is these days. Looks like they have a hit on their hands.
Because, as we all know, when you think ‘set top streamer’ you think ‘video game console’!
Just like when you think ‘F-150’ you think ‘Bagger 288’! Or when you think ‘duck a l’orange’ you think ‘breakfast’!
I met Trip once -- when he worked for Apple in the 1980s. Trip impressed me as a polished politician. I suspect that his companies already have games in development for the new AppleTV ... It wouldn't surprise me if they were demoed at the Sept 9 event.
I'm not a gamer -- casual, social or advanced console (whatever these definitions really mean). But I do think there is room for a genre that involves multiple players gathered around a big screen. These players are not obsessed with gaming -- rather they are interested in ad hoc sessions of challenging games as part of social contact with friends and family.
Did you ever get together with friends to play penny-ante Poker; Canasta: Pinocle; Spades; Gin; Dominos; Monopoly etc.?
The game wasn't the objective -- it was a means of entertainment and social interaction.
This could be what Apple is targeting!
As to console gaming:
I did some research, and came up with the following:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that advanced console gaming (units sold) topped out in 2000-2001, and has been declining since:
Then, there's this:
[VIDEO]
Ha!
I always thought someone should exploit the name and come up with a game called "Honkey Dong" :smokey:
There could be a whole new genre of [I] gaming [/I] related to live events. Easy are Sports Events such as Soccer, Football, Basketball (even baseball, to a degree).
Consider Sports Events: there are lineups, formations, play actions and results. Some sportscasters use a telestrator to highlight these after the fact.
What if each user had her * own color telestrator and could layout a play before it occurred -- and accumulate points based on their accuracy.
You, and your friends, could actually participate in a live event for ongoing fun, bragging rights and profit!
Seriously, how many times have you called out loud to the TV for your team to run a draw, a slant pass or a blitz?
Now, you could telestrate exactly how with a tap, tap, tap.
* When I first married my late wife Lucy -- I was amazed that she understood sports -- especially football. Come Thanksgiving, while the women were in the kitchen, Lucy was gathered around the TV with the guys -- watching football. Amazing, she understands football ... But, but, she understands football better than me. Our daughter Patti has maintained this tradition.
You "don't see", you keep saying that over and over again despite what the experts say (links have been provided), despite what the non-experts think (such as those of us here that are eager for gaming on this device).
Those experts are expressing opinions, and they could be right or wrong, same as my opinion. But for some reason you use their opinions as facts on why the ATV will succeed in gaming, even though the device isn't on the market yet. You know, experts have gone wrong many times.
I check all my posts, I didn't see the term "never" in any of them, so maybe you assume I think people will never play in an Apple TV. Your assumption is wrong. I'm sure people will play on it, including you, since you seem looking forward to it (and no, their TV won't explode for playing iOS games in it, at least from what I know). What I'm not sure is if most people will keep the interest of playing in the ATV, same as happened to Wii / Wii U, and return to their mobile and consoles.
Second, I used the terms "casual" and "console gamers" to generalize (I hope to be using the right term, since English is not my main language). There are casual gamers that own consoles, and most console gamers have mobile devices. You can see what type of gamer are based in which device they play more. Which group is Apple targeting with the ATV? Would the ATV be better than the XOne/PS4 for console gamers or better than a mobile device for casual gamers? Maybe, like you said, there is another group. But my posts refer only to those two groups. You are welcome to add whatever group you want in your comments.
Third, when I mentioned that I don't see casual gamers sitting in front of a TV playing, was in general and not absolute terms.
There are iOS gaming sites that are filled with people who will eagerly embrace gaming on this ATV, but in your last sentence you appear to judge success and failure on the amount of hours that a gamer will game on an ATV. I don't know what that means and why that would be a valid criteria for success or failure, but you seem hell bent on focusing on failure and promoting that position, despite claiming in your first sentence you don't know whether it'll be a success or failure. Your position is clear, and from the tone of your posts I'm quite certain that no matter how gaming manifests on this ATV, you will move the goal posts to satisfy your position and claim it was a failure and you were right all along.
I just mention gaming time as an example, and not as the only metric to measure if gamers like the device. For example, based in stats, CoD and Halo are two popular franchises people love to play. And how do they know? One way is measuring how much time people spend playing online. If people don't spend time playing in the ATV, could it be that people didn't like it? The opposite can be said if people spend time playing in it, meaning that Apple did something right.
Anyhow, you already make your mind that you'll love the ATV (even though you don't know how good or bad it will be), and, using your own words, "move the goal posts to satisfy your position and claim it was successful and you were right all along."
The good news is that we don't have long to wait to see whether gaming will exist on this ATV, and hopefully Wednesday (if it does) we'll get a good demo of what to expect. I will buy the new ATV (to replace my existing ATV), not exclusively because of its gaming capabilities. Gaming is merely a very nice-to-have addition to a device I already value, opening an App Store just makes it much more appealing, games being one aspect of an App Store. I will game on it and I won't be the only one, sometimes for hours in one sitting sometimes for minutes, just as I did on the PS3 I just sold.
Hope you enjoy it!!!
Ya' know ...
There could be a whole new genre of gaming related to live events. Easy are Sports Events such as Soccer, Football, Basketball (even baseball, to a degree).
Consider Sports Events: there are lineups, formations, play actions and results. Some sportscasters use a telestrator to highlight these after the fact.
What if each user had her * own color telestrator and could layout a play before it occurred -- and accumulate points based on their accuracy.
You, and your friends, could actually participate in a live event for ongoing fun, bragging rights and profit!
Seriously, how many times have you called out loud to the TV for your team to run a draw, a slant pass or a blitz?
Now, you could telestrate exactly how with a tap, tap, tap.
* When I first married my late wife Lucy -- I was amazed that she understood sports -- especially football. Come Thanksgiving, while the women were in the kitchen, Lucy was gathered around the TV with the guys -- watching football. Amazing, she understands football ... But, but, she understands football better than me. Our daughter Patti has maintained this tradition.
That is a neat idea that would be great in the living room with friends or in a sports bar.
In today's more up-tempo football game the time to do what you are saying seems tough with some teams. So you would *cough* have to be on the ball *cough*. I like the idea of keeping it somewhat simplified to calling run, pass, option and maybe a screen play (slant) or play action for offense. For defense the options could be something like blitz (like you said), zone, or man-to-man. Or maybe go with a Madden style mechanism of play calling, either way you would need to be very quick.
I'm having a hard time imagining a mechanic that would work with sports that are more fluid like soccer, basketball, or hockey.
With baseball I can imagine focusing on the pitcher and scoring based on whoever called the correct pitch. For the offence mechanic, predict where you think the ball will be hit. You would need to know the players fairly well to predict where each player is most likely to hit the ball. Or just play the percentages.
I can dig it.
Give it a Li-ion battery and a USB C port to charge/play. Just make it in the Nintendo+Xbox layout or it’s a no go for me.
?Then again, a
physical controller seems so un-Apple.
I couldn't imagine them making a standard controller with all those input buttons. Basic gaming can be done with a touch surface and shoulder buttons like so:
It might not be the most comfortable controller for prolonged gaming but for casual gaming it should be ok. This would have a mic input on it. The shoulder buttons would be flush with the back so that if you weren't a gamer, it looks just like a touch remote.
The left side would be movement, right side would be look and there would be two shoulder buttons that are analog and on a central rocker so that they have 3 states each with one finger (left side down, right side down, both down).
The touch areas can be segmented into parts for different games e.g reserve the middle part for movement and look and then tap the edges for buttons. Platformers would need fewer controls than FPS games.
The controller would also have a gyro and accelerometer and pressure sensitive surface and could be clipped to accessories for fitness training. It can have a clasp like the iPod for a wrist strap to let you play tennis games. There would be pinpoint lights on top to indicate charge and player number in multiplayer games.
This can also work with the Mac for gaming if people don't have a standard controller.
It would make sense to support MFi controllers too, this is just a way to bundle a single compact remote and gaming controller so that people have gaming out of the box without manufacturing a line of touch remotes and a separate line of game controllers.
That is an interesting take, but I don't think I would go for it personally.
Maybe with force touch or some other new technology they could make it usable for more than just casual games.
Buttons, triggers and analog sticks work so extremely well for so many types of games.
Then again you might be right and casual gaming will be the main thrust for Apple.
What if there were a mandatory pause between the lineup and the play -- say a 2-3 second set. It would change Payton Manning's approach -- but he would adapt and exploit!
Actually, fluid games are even more attractive/challenging -- if you see the entire rink/arena you can see play opportunities take form before your eyes -- calling "Pass to the Left Wing", "Offside Trap",
"Stay on sides". "Cross" or "Center it" ...
I'm liking where this is going.
I now want this a lot.