It would be more tragic if they were unable to fire people to meet current market conditions. They're not a job center, they're a business.
The problem is not that they are firing people, but that they were unable to react the market and end up being outside the market now looking in, or at the dregs of the market at the bottom making low margin stuff.
A decade or so ago the HP LaserJets were real workhorses. We output 200,000 black toner pages before needing service, then another 100,000 until we finally switched to fully networked color Xerox floor model. Now the HP small business lineup is total crap in my opinion.
We also have large format Epson ink jets which are really high quality. Haven't tried the HP large format.
I am still using an HP2100tn that I bought in 1999 or so in my home office. It has a ton of sheets through it and works fine. And is super cheap to feed. Refilled cartridges are like $20 or so and these are the large very hi capacity cartridges that will do 10k or more (?) sheets. (That is pulling info from my head and I may be remembering the exact number wrong).
I bought another small HP laser for another part of the home office several years ago. Did not last that long. It still shows up on the network but won't print for some reason. Can't get an error code or anything.
Wow. Fiorina and Whitman (and Hurd too, with his relentless cost-cutting view of the work) have thoroughly gutted a once-great American company. The Board has been a shameful disaster as well.
What a tragedy.
It would be more tragic if they were unable to fire people to meet current market conditions. They're not a job center, they're a business.
Sure. But it's more tragic for the longer term if it's symptomatic of their being unable to find growth strategies, as opposed to just cutting costs.
It would be more tragic if they were unable to fire people to meet current market conditions. They're not a job center, they're a business.
When you take tax breaks (because you're a job creator, right?) then you owe US good jobs. Give up all tax breaks and you can lay off all you like. Take them, and you ARE a job center.
Layoffs like this is pretty normal as many companies are switching to the Uber model which is hiring contractors instead of employees.
Soon there will be only a handful of employees and everybody is a contractor with no benefits.
Part of the original story but not mentioned in the AI article -- HP is also going to switch from using their own customer service people to contracting with third-world companies that will use CS people with a thin grasp of English pronunciation. India was one of the two countries mentioned in the story. The other was some island nation...
When HP gets done reorganizing they may very well fit back into the garage they started in...
Are you talking about Keysight? (formerly Agilent)
I would imagine as instrumentation is what got HP started. HP/Agilent/Keysight has made some excellent instrumentation over the years. However I'm not convinced Keysight is doing all that well at the moment. The instrumentation industry in the US has taken a beating from imports lately. Plus why change a companies name yet again, this always reduces trust that I may have in a company.
Part of the original story but not mentioned in the AI article -- HP is also going to switch from using their own customer service people to contracting with third-world companies that will use CS people with a thin grasp of English pronunciation. India was one of the two countries mentioned in the story. The other was some island nation...
When HP gets done reorganizing they may very well fit back into the garage they started in...
HP CEO Meg Whitman only knows how to cut costs by squeezing employee salaries through outsourcing and insourcing cheap labor instead of growing the business through solid R&D and planning. If we look at HP products lately they just contract Foxconn to copy Apple designs and put the HP logo on the back. When's the last time we saw an innovative HP product. HP is barely holding on the PC market vs Lenovo.
When you take tax breaks (because you're a job creator, right?) then you owe US good jobs. Give up all tax breaks and you can lay off all you like. Take them, and you ARE a job center.
Businesses deal with the world as it is. If tax breaks are eliminated, they'll deal with that reality.
It would be more tragic if they were unable to fire people to meet current market conditions. They're not a job center, they're a business.
Laying off that many people suggests that they have done a terrible job of anticipating and dealing with market conditions. Fluctuations wouldn't be that large if they were well positioned.
Laying off that many people suggests that they have done a terrible job of anticipating and dealing with market conditions. Fluctuations wouldn't be that large if they were well positioned.
Laying off that many people now (about 10% of their workforce) means they are responding to conditions now, perhaps too late even. Not responding could mean the end of their business entirely.
Laying off that many people now (about 10% of their workforce) means they are responding to conditions now, perhaps too late even. Not responding could mean the end of their business entirely.
I didn't think they had that many people, but it's still a high percentage for a mature company. My point was that if they planned well as they went along, they shouldn't have to lay off 10% of their staff. I'm not even sure why they have Whitman as ceo.
Businesses deal with the world as it is. If tax breaks are eliminated, they'll deal with that reality.
That's easy to say but we all know that it's businesses that lobby for the tax breaks. What you're really saying is that they shouldn't be held accountable for taking them.
Wow. Fiorina and Whitman (and Hurd too, with his relentless cost-cutting view of the work) have thoroughly gutted a once-great American company. The Board has been a shameful disaster as well.
What a tragedy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
It would be more tragic if they were unable to fire people to meet current market conditions. They're not a job center, they're a business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadbag
The problem is not that they are firing people, but that they were unable to react the market and end up being outside the market now looking in, or at the dregs of the market at the bottom making low margin stuff.
Outside of all the political spin here (evil heartless execs who "love firing people," etc.) is the fact that there's this company in Cupertino you may have heard of which has helped put the kibosh on a whole bunch of companies that hitched their wagons to the Windows star..... ...and were unable to keep their business models viable as that company disrupted the entire digital industry and changed the ground rules all around 'em (and the maker of Windows lost their way entirely when they turned the company over to a bombastic salesman with no technological businessman)....
....so a lot of this would've happened with nearly any executive suitable to the (not above criticism) board of directors... ...this has been happening to IBM... ...and is still happening to them... ...since their own brush with Microsoft beginning in the '80s....
...30 years of decline and counting.... (...and IBM's best hope of a turnaround is ironically coming from their growing alliance with Apple....)
That's easy to say but we all know that it's businesses that lobby for the tax breaks. What you're really saying is that they shouldn't be held accountable for taking them.
BREAKING NEWS: People act in their self-interest and businesses are run by people.
BREAKING NEWS: People act in their self-interest and businesses are run by people.
And HERE'S THE LATEST: People should be held accountable for their actions. Especially people in high places. You want to be the boss? Be prepared to held responsible. You make poor decisions that require cuts: start with your own pay,your tax breaks, the business' tax breaks, and then you can think about laying off people who aren't responsible for your poor decisions.
Like Carly Fiorina, Meg Whitman loves to lay off Americans. And unlike their good friend Mitt Romney (elected Governor once), who loves to lay off Americans and ship their jobs overseas, neither will ever be elected to anything.
Ya, I see you're following the leftest party B.S. Line! With half truths, and completely wrong crap! It's what I expect. Who's been for the so called FREE TRADE, Open boarders? Ummm, That's Sent far, far, far, far more Jobs over seas or just to Mexico? Oh that's right, Democrats and their Presidents!!!
I disagee. They are cheap. Brother makes a better printer.
My all in one Brother Laser is great!!! The Toner Cartridge has no CHIP and so is simple to fill up with aftermarket toner for cheap and reset the cartridge. The Toner Cartridge and the drum are 2 piece. Can change one without the other which cuts cost. It prints great. It warms up fast and is spitting out pages.
How long before we start seeing such articles about Apple? I would think at least 5 years, but all this talk of original TV content development, Apple cars*, and a lot of other things that will end up being money pit distractions compared to the core competencies of Apple, and achievable at the scale Apple needs as a large company.
Hopefully Tim and company are agile enough to be able to drop things that don't look like they will work and find new things no one has thought of before, or new ways to do old things.
*I don't think an electric car in the next 10 years will be able to sell enough to make a difference to Apple. In 10 years, most cars will still be fueled by liquid fuel or a variant of NG or a hybrid with an engine running on such fuels. Small commuter cars in urban areas will be the biggest concentration of electric cars still, but it will still be a minority.
The point is you're company has to always be moving forward. Innovating so you have a future and not just relying on what you did in the past and expect that to keep you around forever. Maybe Apple is working on a car, maybe not. The future is Electric Cars. Is it smart for Apple to built their own cars? I don't know, maybe Car Systems for others to use. Creating your own content is the future then relying on others. That's Android, Everyone relying on Google!!! Netflix see's this and is expanding with their own. It'll be like HBO, Original programming mixed with content from others. Why not Apple? iPad sales have dropped. how long can the iPhone sales continue to go up? What if in the future, the iphone drops like Blackberry? If you you have all your eggs in that basket, you're screwed.
Comments
It would be more tragic if they were unable to fire people to meet current market conditions. They're not a job center, they're a business.
The problem is not that they are firing people, but that they were unable to react the market and end up being outside the market now looking in, or at the dregs of the market at the bottom making low margin stuff.
A decade or so ago the HP LaserJets were real workhorses. We output 200,000 black toner pages before needing service, then another 100,000 until we finally switched to fully networked color Xerox floor model. Now the HP small business lineup is total crap in my opinion.
We also have large format Epson ink jets which are really high quality. Haven't tried the HP large format.
I am still using an HP2100tn that I bought in 1999 or so in my home office. It has a ton of sheets through it and works fine. And is super cheap to feed. Refilled cartridges are like $20 or so and these are the large very hi capacity cartridges that will do 10k or more (?) sheets. (That is pulling info from my head and I may be remembering the exact number wrong).
I bought another small HP laser for another part of the home office several years ago. Did not last that long. It still shows up on the network but won't print for some reason. Can't get an error code or anything.
Sure. But it's more tragic for the longer term if it's symptomatic of their being unable to find growth strategies, as opposed to just cutting costs.
Layoffs like this is pretty normal as many companies are switching to the Uber model which is hiring contractors instead of employees.
Soon there will be only a handful of employees and everybody is a contractor with no benefits.
It would be more tragic if they were unable to fire people to meet current market conditions. They're not a job center, they're a business.
When you take tax breaks (because you're a job creator, right?) then you owe US good jobs. Give up all tax breaks and you can lay off all you like. Take them, and you ARE a job center.
Part of the original story but not mentioned in the AI article -- HP is also going to switch from using their own customer service people to contracting with third-world companies that will use CS people with a thin grasp of English pronunciation. India was one of the two countries mentioned in the story. The other was some island nation...
When HP gets done reorganizing they may very well fit back into the garage they started in...
I would imagine as instrumentation is what got HP started. HP/Agilent/Keysight has made some excellent instrumentation over the years. However I'm not convinced Keysight is doing all that well at the moment. The instrumentation industry in the US has taken a beating from imports lately. Plus why change a companies name yet again, this always reduces trust that I may have in a company.
Part of the original story but not mentioned in the AI article -- HP is also going to switch from using their own customer service people to contracting with third-world companies that will use CS people with a thin grasp of English pronunciation. India was one of the two countries mentioned in the story. The other was some island nation...
When HP gets done reorganizing they may very well fit back into the garage they started in...
HP CEO Meg Whitman only knows how to cut costs by squeezing employee salaries through outsourcing and insourcing cheap labor instead of growing the business through solid R&D and planning. If we look at HP products lately they just contract Foxconn to copy Apple designs and put the HP logo on the back. When's the last time we saw an innovative HP product. HP is barely holding on the PC market vs Lenovo.
When you take tax breaks (because you're a job creator, right?) then you owe US good jobs. Give up all tax breaks and you can lay off all you like. Take them, and you ARE a job center.
Businesses deal with the world as it is. If tax breaks are eliminated, they'll deal with that reality.
It would be more tragic if they were unable to fire people to meet current market conditions. They're not a job center, they're a business.
Laying off that many people suggests that they have done a terrible job of anticipating and dealing with market conditions. Fluctuations wouldn't be that large if they were well positioned.
Laying off that many people suggests that they have done a terrible job of anticipating and dealing with market conditions. Fluctuations wouldn't be that large if they were well positioned.
Laying off that many people now (about 10% of their workforce) means they are responding to conditions now, perhaps too late even. Not responding could mean the end of their business entirely.
Laying off that many people now (about 10% of their workforce) means they are responding to conditions now, perhaps too late even. Not responding could mean the end of their business entirely.
I didn't think they had that many people, but it's still a high percentage for a mature company. My point was that if they planned well as they went along, they shouldn't have to lay off 10% of their staff. I'm not even sure why they have Whitman as ceo.
Businesses deal with the world as it is. If tax breaks are eliminated, they'll deal with that reality.
That's easy to say but we all know that it's businesses that lobby for the tax breaks. What you're really saying is that they shouldn't be held accountable for taking them.
Wow. Fiorina and Whitman (and Hurd too, with his relentless cost-cutting view of the work) have thoroughly gutted a once-great American company. The Board has been a shameful disaster as well.
What a tragedy.
Quote:
It would be more tragic if they were unable to fire people to meet current market conditions. They're not a job center, they're a business.
Quote:
The problem is not that they are firing people, but that they were unable to react the market and end up being outside the market now looking in, or at the dregs of the market at the bottom making low margin stuff.
Outside of all the political spin here (evil heartless execs who "love firing people," etc.) is the fact that there's this company in Cupertino you may have heard of which has helped put the kibosh on a whole bunch of companies that hitched their wagons to the Windows star..... ...and were unable to keep their business models viable as that company disrupted the entire digital industry and changed the ground rules all around 'em (and the maker of Windows lost their way entirely when they turned the company over to a bombastic salesman with no technological businessman)....
....so a lot of this would've happened with nearly any executive suitable to the (not above criticism) board of directors... ...this has been happening to IBM... ...and is still happening to them... ...since their own brush with Microsoft beginning in the '80s....
...30 years of decline and counting.... (...and IBM's best hope of a turnaround is ironically coming from their growing alliance with Apple....)
Jus' saying....
BREAKING NEWS: People act in their self-interest and businesses are run by people.
BREAKING NEWS: People act in their self-interest and businesses are run by people.
And HERE'S THE LATEST: People should be held accountable for their actions. Especially people in high places. You want to be the boss? Be prepared to held responsible. You make poor decisions that require cuts: start with your own pay, your tax breaks, the business' tax breaks, and then you can think about laying off people who aren't responsible for your poor decisions.
Like Carly Fiorina, Meg Whitman loves to lay off Americans. And unlike their good friend Mitt Romney (elected Governor once), who loves to lay off Americans and ship their jobs overseas, neither will ever be elected to anything.
Ya, I see you're following the leftest party B.S. Line! With half truths, and completely wrong crap! It's what I expect. Who's been for the so called FREE TRADE, Open boarders? Ummm, That's Sent far, far, far, far more Jobs over seas or just to Mexico? Oh that's right, Democrats and their Presidents!!!
They also love to put American money in other countries.
You mean like all the Rich old Democrats? Talking about having blinders on.
I disagee. They are cheap. Brother makes a better printer.
My all in one Brother Laser is great!!! The Toner Cartridge has no CHIP and so is simple to fill up with aftermarket toner for cheap and reset the cartridge. The Toner Cartridge and the drum are 2 piece. Can change one without the other which cuts cost. It prints great. It warms up fast and is spitting out pages.
How long before we start seeing such articles about Apple? I would think at least 5 years, but all this talk of original TV content development, Apple cars*, and a lot of other things that will end up being money pit distractions compared to the core competencies of Apple, and achievable at the scale Apple needs as a large company.
Hopefully Tim and company are agile enough to be able to drop things that don't look like they will work and find new things no one has thought of before, or new ways to do old things.
*I don't think an electric car in the next 10 years will be able to sell enough to make a difference to Apple. In 10 years, most cars will still be fueled by liquid fuel or a variant of NG or a hybrid with an engine running on such fuels. Small commuter cars in urban areas will be the biggest concentration of electric cars still, but it will still be a minority.
The point is you're company has to always be moving forward. Innovating so you have a future and not just relying on what you did in the past and expect that to keep you around forever. Maybe Apple is working on a car, maybe not. The future is Electric Cars. Is it smart for Apple to built their own cars? I don't know, maybe Car Systems for others to use. Creating your own content is the future then relying on others. That's Android, Everyone relying on Google!!! Netflix see's this and is expanding with their own. It'll be like HBO, Original programming mixed with content from others. Why not Apple? iPad sales have dropped. how long can the iPhone sales continue to go up? What if in the future, the iphone drops like Blackberry? If you you have all your eggs in that basket, you're screwed.